Tuesday, February 14, 2006

Arguments Against ID Cards- No 94

Guido has discovered yet another flaw in the ID Card legislation. He says...
Under U.K. law citizens of the Republic of Ireland can legally travel back
and forth across the Irish sea without a passport. So Guido is legally able to
enter the country and do what he can to assist in the overthrow of the
government, without being legally required to carry identification. Unlike
British subjects, Guido is free to travel in and out of the U.K. without a
passport or a UK I.D. card - and the English call the Irish thick!

You couldn't make it up. And the Irish can even vote here!


Anonymous said...

I am against ID cards but don't see how that counts as an argument against them.

The problem of Irish citizens moving freely in the UK without ID - to the extent that it is a real problem - will continue to exist regardless of whether ID cards are introduced or not. That argument is like saying that introducing ID cards does nothing to reduce the theft of rare birds eggs in Botswana - true, but so what? Your logic is totally flawed - if situation X exists both before and after action Y, that isn't in itself an argument against action Y.

And anyone from EU can vote in UK elections if they live here can't they? Rightly so (and reciprocal of course).

Iain Dale said...

Anonymous. Wrong on both counts. Anyone staying here longer than 3 months will have tohave an ID card (except Irish citizens). How can that possibly be enforced?

Secondly, EU citizens cannot vote in UK national elections. Irish citizens can. This is not reciprocal. UK citizens living in Ireland cannot vote on Irish national elections to the Dail. How can that be construed as fair?

BondWoman said...

Sorry, Iain, wrong on one count...UK citizens can vote in the Dail (but not presidential elections or Seannad elections - but then we don't have an elected upper house or head of state do we...?), and have been able to do since 1984.

Anonymous said...

Bondwoman is correct and additionally my post didn't say national elections. As far as I am aware it is reciprocal in all cases.

On the other point, I am fairly certain you are wrong. As I understand it, British citizens are to be required to get an ID card at the same time as they get a passport (and only if they get a passport). EU citizens including Irish citizens will be able, but NOT required, to get one having been here for three months - all non-UK EU citizens would be in the same boat on that. If you can point me to the where in the bill it says otherwise I will happily retract but I am fairly confident that you are wrong.

In any event it does not tackle my point on the logical flaw in your argument. Even if there were a loophole in favour of the Irish, how is that an argument against ID cards?

The Gambino Crime Family said...

I don't know. While I'm Irish-American and an Irish citizen - wasn't there a wee bit of a problem concerning Ireland and terrorism some time back?

Anonymous said...

TGCF - Sure, but that's an argument for tightening up on the lack of a requirement for the Irish to carry passports. It is not an argument against ID cards which is where Iain's logic is flawed.