Now THIS is interesting. It seems that whatever the result of the Irish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the Czechs may be about to put yet another spanner in the works.
The Czech PM said before the weekend that a legal challenge through the Czech constitutional court could delay ratification by 3-6 months. Sarkozy is supposed to have reacted with fury and threatened the Czechs with unspecified ‘consequences’. How very typical of the way the EU likes to bully small countries into submission.
Maybe we will get our own referendum after all.
50 comments:
They dealt with Soviet Russia for years. Sarkastik doesn't really hold any dread for them.
"Maybe we will get our own referendum after all"
We won't if Euro Dave is the PM.
Iain, could this be the payback for the brilliant manoeuvre of the Conservatives party to set up a new grouping in the EU. If they manage to stifle the Lisbon treaty, it will be the biggest coup in the EU and will give the new grouping power.
Well done the Czechs.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could have our own referendum on this.
Didn't Nulab promise us one of those? Or did I just imagine it?
I admire the Czechs, and Vaclav Klaus in particular. It's a shame Cameron hasn't got similar backbone. What a pathetic sight he makes in comparison as he whitters on the sidelines and hopes a real man will make up his mind for him.
I'm still awaiting your post on labour's tax bombshell or have you along with everyone else realised that Gideon hasn't actually read the budget lol
Thanks William:
http://www.williamdartmouth.com/news/news.htm
We should be offering our full support to the Czechs. We neeed that referendum. Bet a few nokias collided with walls and mandleshite must be apoplectic.
I do hope so Mr dale but lets also hope the irish stand up to bullies
No means No
As any high pressure "salesperson" will tell you, persistence overcomes resistance.
The Dutch, the French and the Irish have all found out that refusal of the Superstate will not be tolerated.
Not if Cameron can avoid it!
dave better hope that they do.Oterwise the lib/dem image of dave as a shallow "sham" politician will stick.On the other hand "CAM the SHAM" makes a hell of a good title if he were to welch on the referendum.
I hope the Irish vote no.
For us in the UK the real question is "What happens to Gordon on Oct 3rd?" because if the Irish vote yes, Mandleson will have no further use for Gordon at that point. Unless the Czechs put a spanner in the works.
In a way, the Czechs might be Gordon's saviour because Mandelson only needs Gordon to block the tories long enough to get the treaty through. He daren't ditch Gordon until the treaty is safely passed.
I'd pray for a no vote, but being an aethiest....
Maybe Call Me Dave could commit to a referendum on membership of the EU instead of obfuscating?
Mandelson will simply have to ensure that the sock puppet, Brown, is kept in 'office' until such time as the Czech's ratify the Treaty. It might even mean postponement of the GE, if necessary.
Mandelson's job will then be complete - to ensure Lisbon is ratified before there is a chance that Cameron comes to power and announces a UK referendum.
The German Constitutional Court's verdict on the Lisbon Treaty is rather negative as well.
the Basic Law denies the German government the power "to abandon the right to self-determination of the German people", which they exercise by voting for their own parliament, which in turn must not be denuded of powers because otherwise German democracy would become meaningless.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/6202988/Germans-reel-at-prospect-of-submission-to-alien-powers.html
Sadly the court has a tendency to bark rather than bite.
We'll see if the German government obeys the law.
For Sarkosy read Napoleon.
Diminutive stature, megalomania, ambition to dominate Europe and, yes, his own particular Josephine.
We've seen this so many times before, haven't we?
I wrote to President Klaus in June asking him to withhold his signature until next year (as he'd indicated the more letters he gets from UK citizens the easier it is for him, politically, to withhold his signature) and he hinted very strongly in his reply to me that waiting until the GE election next year was his tactic.
So there's hope, but not much as the EU will just implement the Constitutional Institutions anyway under existing treaties or add it to the Accession of Croatia Treaty next year - the EU is already building the offices for EU President Blair despite the fact that the Lisbon Treaty has yet to be ratified.
This will not please Mr. Cameron to whom that long grass is so lush and inviting.
tee hee hee,
NO TO LISBON MEANS NO TO LISBON!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=38059363467&ref=mf
Putting up posters today.......
Anon 21/9 12:12
"Wouldn't it be nice if we could have our own referendum on this."
We will have our referendum, it's called the 2010 General Election:
If you're a yes man vote for any of the big 3.
If your answer is no, vote UKIP.
@Golden balls
FFS - whatever happens, however it is handling, we are going to be paying of the debts that The Supreme Idiot has dumbed on is for decades.
Don't you get it?
All of us in the EU need the Lisbon treaty if the Union's machinery is to function properly and effectively after the recent major expansion of membership. If the Czechs, the Irish or a Tory government in Britain succeed in killing the treaty, the standing in Europe of the government responsible for such a destructive act will lie in ruins, and its ability to defend and promote its country's interests in Europe severely undermined. If the UK proves to be the guilty party, our continued membership of the EU could even be in jeopardy. Even the blinkered Tory party leadership claims not to want that.
Oliver Drew said... “A real vote winner for Cameron would be to confirm that regardless of ratification taking place we would have our own referendum within 12 months should the Conservatives get into office in the next Gen Election...here's hoping!”
What does this mean? If the Treaty is up and running by the time of the UK General Election (Britain has already ratified it), what on earth do you think any UK “referendum” would (a) be about and (b) do?
Having a referendum with no purpose just for your amusement would seem somewhat self-indugent. Or do you mean a “Should the UK leave the EU” referendum just like the one we already had and the losers never accepted?
1938 all over again.
"A far away country of which we know little."
Promise support, then let the Germans tell them how its going to be.
A whole new meaning to the czech is in the post
@Simon Gardner,
Actually we had a "should the UK leave the EEC" referendum which is not quite the same thing.
In fact, the lack of any referendums since then rather emphasises the point......
BrianB said...
All of us in the EU need the Lisbon treaty if the Union's machinery is to function properly and effectively after the recent major expansion of membership. If the Czechs, the Irish or a Tory government in Britain succeed in killing the treaty, the standing in Europe of the government responsible for such a destructive act will lie in ruins, and its ability to defend and promote its country's interests in Europe severely undermined. If the UK proves to be the guilty party, our continued membership of the EU could even be in jeopardy. Even the blinkered Tory party leadership claims not to want that.
September 21, 2009 1:33 PM
What the Tory party wants is irrelevant, if they want to get elected they need to listen to what the voters want and we want a referendum no matter what and if we have to break away from the EU to make the point so be it.
Simon,
If the EU Treaty has been ratified, a "NO" vote provides the incoming Tory adminisration with the clout to re-negotiate terms with the EU. Of course the EU will initially refuse to have anything to do with this, so Dave needs to have the ultimate threat, if the EU cabal don't play ball, to hold a further referendum - IN or OUT.
Of course, this all assumes Dave is serious about allowing the public to have a say, or just indulging in dog whistle politics.
The man is a star! Here is an extract I came accross last Feb,
Vaclav Klaus : A man for freedom
23rd February 2009
Applaud until our hands burn for Czech Republic president Vaclav Klaus, a man with the courage to tell it like it is, and to look at reality in the face. He has compared the EU to the Soviet Union. He is right – again and again. “Klaus, whose country now holds the rotating EU presidency, set out a scathing attack on the EU project and its institutions, provoking boos from many lawmakers, some of whom walked out, but applause from nationalists and other anti-EU legislators.”
Those who booed and walked out did the right thing indeed as they cleared the air – and they should never come back.
"He said current EU practices smacked of communist times when the Soviet Union controlled much of eastern Europe, including the Czech Republic and when dissent or even discussions were not tolerated."
Great news!!
Go the Czechs!!
Just watch the EU leaders totally lose it over the next few months.
Now if Dave was to say "should he become Prime Minister, the country will get their chance to vote on ratification of the Lisbon Treaty on (insert date) No if's no buts" I think that would be the final nail in the Governments coffin.
It might even start an "out now" campaign.
Please let it be so.
If the Irish are foolish enough to capitulate to the bullies of Brussels but Vaclav Klaus holds off Czech ratification until after our General Election, he should be awarded an honourary Knighthood.
What a disgrace it is that the UK electorate is relying on the Irish and Czechs so we can exercise our democratic right to determine this country's future.
BrianB,
If we wanted a non-elected and unaccountable EU "super state" with no room for individual identity then we might as well of let the Luftwaffe have free reign over the skies of dear old blighty during the 1930s`
The EU in Brussels is scared, it`s scared of the citizens of Europe to make up their own mind and vote no,nothing will happen if we pulled out of this treaty and they know that.
Or do you mean a “Should the UK leave the EU” referendum just like the one we already had and the losers never accepted?
I thought it was EU policy to keep voting until you got the answer you wanted.
Sorry, Bill Quango MP, whoever you are: Chamberlain didn't say that Czechoslovakia was a "far away country of which we know nothing" (although millions, like you, think he did). You haven't, evidently, read the footnote to a blog post of mine of December 2007 in which I wrote:
"How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing." Neville Chamberlain, September 27, 1938, Parliamentary Debates, House of Commons (London: HMSO, 1938) vol. 339, 12th vol. of session 1937-1938, pp. 361-369, 373. [Quoted at http://www.historyguide.org/europe/munich.html.] Notice that, contrary to the common misquotation, Chamberlain did not refer to the country itself (Czechoslovakia) as one "of which we know nothing", but to the quarrelling people of it.
We won't get a referendum.
The UK has already sent its ratification documents in. There's no process for withdrawing them.
And Dave doesn't want the first 6 months of his new administration tied up on Europe.
The conservatives actually believe that they have a settled view regarding europe i beg to differ.
Dave needs to pledge a referendum if the treaty is unratified. I can understand why it's difficult to pledge a referendum for an inherited ratified treaty, but this is a no-brainer, if it comes off (fingers crossed!)
Could kill off Blair and Mandy's dream for Blair as El Presidente.
Dave is clearly scared that promising a referendum even if the constitreaty has been ratified would look that the Tories were being "not moderate" over the EU.
While I am not impartial on the EU I think any possible bad effect there would be mitigated by it also putting the spotlight on the total dishonesty of Labour & LibDims in having gone into the last election with manifesto promises of a referendum which they broke as soon as the election was over.
Parties which show an obvious contempt for both their word & their voters lose the votes of self respecting people. The fact that not only do 2 of the parties show such contempt but that the Conservatives have been as quiet as possible on this subject may explain much of the feeling against politicians.
I am told that the name "Sarkosy" means "Gypsy" in Hungarian and is similarly spelt in Czech / Slovak. He is well aware of his ancestry which really bugs him. Certainly a major hang-up!
"If the Czechs, the Irish or a Tory government in Britain succeed in killing the treaty, the standing in Europe of the government responsible for such a destructive act will lie in ruins ..."
Complete rubbish. It would certainly upset Merkel, although not most of the Germans, and it would certainly upset Sarkozy, although not most of the French. As for the other EU governments, some of them would quietly breathe a sigh of relief, and the others would just shrug their shoulders, while the people in those countries would do much the same - except for a small minority of fanatics.
I bloody well hope so as i know which way i am voting on the issue, 'NO' to the treaty.
"The UK has already sent its ratification documents in. There's no process for withdrawing them."
More rubbish.
You send a formal letter to the Italian government, copied to the other EU governments, saying:
"The government of the United Kingdom hereby gives notice of its decision that the United Kingdom shall no longer consent to be bound by the terms of the Lisbon Treaty, and cancels the relevant instrument of ratification previously deposited with the Italian government".
Sorted.
Just let them hold on until the Tories get into power, THEN get a Czech citizen in the UK challenge a minor technicality of the Czech voting in a UK court.
Tag ratification - we love it.
A couple of weeks ago Dan Hannan posted a teaser:
"I am increasingly confident that Britain will get its referendum. I’m not in a position to explain why at this stage, but our hand is stronger than is generally supposed. I know this won’t do for some of my readers, but I’m afraid that, for now, you’ll just have to take my word for it."
I wonder if this is what he was talking about (see: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100008876/euro-sceptic-meps-hold-our-inaugural-conference/)
Good for the Czechs.
Klaus's articulation of his scepticism on the EU constitutional treaty and AGW are always a pleasure to read or listen to.
The English pages on his web site are available here http://www.klaus.cz/klaus2/asp/default.asp?CatID=YJrRHRsP
Good, let's support the Czechs this time...
Dave is going to have to say something at the conference, unless Brown calls a cut and run Election at the NuLab conference, so as to destabilise the Tory conference, thereby denying them publicity.
The Lisbon Treaty is not wanted by many europeans,but they have been denied a voice or choice.We see the Irish being forced again with incredible bullying from the Brussels elite to vote yes or face EU damnation.The facts are this vile Lisbon Treaty takes away our choices and leaves a bunch of self serving eurocrats and weak national so called governments in charge of this project which fails to leave democracy intact for the voters at election time to have their say.The Irish already said NO and still Brussels tries to force their will on the Irish voters outragious.The EU are acting like a secret police organisation and the last thing this lot want is for the people to have a say.The Conservatives have a duty to ask the people of this country what they want it seems UKIP don't have that problem they are not afraid to offer choice to the people of this country.
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