Wednesday, November 12, 2008

Avoiding Being the 'Stupid Party'

Was it Disraeli who called the Tories the "stupid party"? Ben Brogan thinks that some Tories are desperate to live up to their reputation by handing Gordon Brown George Osborne's head on a platter. Madness.

Over the last few weeks I have noticed a lot of anonymous comments on this blog from anonymous so-called Tories expressing unhappiness with George Osborne. Not a single one of them put a name to their comments. It's quite clear that there is a concerted campaign, not just on the blogosphere, by Labour sympathisers (I shall put it no more strongly than that) to destabilise the relationship between David Cameron and George Osborne. Brown knows how close they are and also knows what effect it would have if he could somehow split them up. Let me give him and his lackeys a message...

It. Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

George Osborne is David Cameron's right hand (stop the sniggering at the back). Whatever mutterings gossipy journalists might or might not have heard, it is simply pie in the sky to even contemplate David Cameron moving Osborne to another post. He has a brilliant political brain and as Brogan says, will bounce back from his recent difficulties. If any Tory MPs are getting back into their bad habits - as Paul Waugh hints at - and briefing against their own, they need their heads read.


Anonymous said...

I thought it was Mill?

Anonymous said...

You say he is Cameron's right hand... so why isn't he sat there at PMQs any more?

Anonymous said...

I believe it was John Stuart Mill who called the Tories the stupid party.

Iain Dale said...

Either he or Hague sit there. David used to on occasion too. Today Hague did. So what?

Anonymous said...

Ian, I am certainly not a labour sympathiser but I have to disagree with you.

I have been saying for some time now that Osborne is a light-weight.

If he has such a fine political brain what was he doing on that yacht moored near Corfu?

If he is Camerons right hand why hasn't he been attacking Brown and Darling?

Cameron needs the likes of Clarke and Davis in his shadow cabinet, and the sooner the better. Other than todays PMQ's the Tories have been too quiet.

Anonymous said...

That suggests that no matter what Osborne does, or what a liability he becomes, David Cameron will put personal friendship and loyalty above the interests of his party and the interests of the country; that's not the stuff of leadership. Tony Blair had no compunction about accepting the resignations of close friends who'd let the side down. I think Cameron is tough enough to move or ditch his friend, and bring in a big beast as Shadow CHX.

Tom said...

Iain, why are you even hinting that these rumours exist if you don't take them seriously?

I am admittedly a Labour supporter, but if I were dopey Dave, i'd brighten things up by getting rid of Oik. He's delivered tax plans that have been rubbished by Unions and business, and been involved in a major fundraising scandal already, seriously damaging the tories' ability to portray the government as corrupt. The man is an albatross to you lot.

Anonymous said...

To me, It's Gordon, who seems to be the one losing his Head

O.K. Cheap laugh...

Tony said...

One can only hope George's brilliant political brain can be applied to constructing a clear and solid argument to defeat Labour's current strategy (sic) on the economy.

Maybe the recent poll showing our lead down to 6 points is a slight anomaly. But I have a suspicion it reveals voters are warming to the Labour message as it is the one they keep hearing again and again.

Iain Dale said...

The Deripaska episode has actually strengthened Osborne's position. It may seem odd, but think about it.

I wrote some time ago that I thought Cameron should consider making Clarke Shad Chancellor - not because Osborne had done anything wrong, but becuase Clarke had got us out of one recession and could get us out of another. He is also popular among centrist voters.

But that ship has sailed. If Osborne went now, it would be interpreted as a sign of weakness and jumped on with glee by Tory opponents. It must not be allowed to happen.

Praguetory said...

That Labour yearn for his scalp isn't a reason to dismiss all criticism. Unlike Labour Conservatives tend to set high standards for people aspiring to high ministerial office.

It's a fact that there are Tory frontbenchers who have been distinctly non-plussed with his handling of the Finance brief. I agree with the criticisms and disappointment they have articulated in private.

Praguetory said...

"The Deripaska episode has actually strengthened Osborne's position. "

This may be true, but up in the Midlands where we're fighting marginals in WWC areas, appearing to defend the next Chancellor turning up on Russian billionaire's yachts is dangerous nonsense.

Daily Referendum said...

I wrote a post on exactly the same subject last week Labour would love to split up Cameron and Osborne. The more they try, the more obvious it becomes that Osborne is the right man for the job.

Anonymous said...

never underestimate the Tory Party's propensity for self-destruction!

After all it's been doing it for Europe for years. There's always going to be those who would rather cling to ideology rather than win power.

Anonymous said...

The Labour trolls are out in force today, Iain!

Looks like a long night in the offing for Dolly's poor minions...

Trolls, I think we've all wised up to you beginning your posts with 'I'm no Labour supporter, but...' then posting pro-Labour nonsense.

Nobody believes Osborne has done anything but an excellent job attacking Brown and Darling over the economy. In fact, if one had arrived from Mars and watched TV or the House of Commons most days, who'd have thought Osborne was in opposition and not Government? He'sbeen smart, he's been cool, he's been effective - and unlike Labour has actually put forward a detailed proposal of precisely how he'd tackle the crisis.

So Dolly, find something better for your minions to do. The poor dears are overworked...

Obnoxio The Clown said...

I'm sorry, Iain, I'm not part of any concerted campaign here, I am entirely my own (Libertarian) asshole. [sic]

And there is no doubt in my mind that whatever Osborne's talents may be, he is utterly shit in his role as shadow chancellor. He should be visibly kicking Darling and Brown around the building and all he can manage are complicated, flimsy bits of wibble.

And if you can't manage to score with an open goal and no-one around you, how much use will you be when the chips are down.

Anonymous said...

I think the second you wrote "It. Ain't. Going. To. Happen." you pretty much sealed his fate.

The fact is he's not connecting with the public or even his own party. The man has failed in the one task he had to do - pin the recession on Brown.

Bye Bye Gideon.

The Daily Pundit said...

There's no need for anonymous comments from "so-called Tories expressing unhappiness with George Osborne". Open your eyes and you'll see many committed, long standing members of the Tory party expressing the same opinion. Not to mention the growing number of Tory bloggers who think Osborne is useless.

labourparty said...

Criticism of Osborne can't possibly come from real Conservative supporters, in Iain's world at least.

Meanwhile back in the real world (anonymous) Tory MPs are criticising Osborne:

"George was a good chancellor for the good times – now he’s lost credibility," said one MP.

Anonymous said...


You're right. Cameron couldn't move Osborne even if he wanted to. There would be celebrations up and down the land in what remains of Labour strongholds.
You're right too, to say that Labour trolls use your site to campaign for Osborne's head.
It begs the question: why don't you delete them? You must be aware that your popular site with a large readership and little or no moderation is a Godsend to Dolly Draper and his gang.
I realise you're a busy man with a living to earn, but if we lose the propaganda war, you need to consider your own contribution.

Patrick said...

Politically this is right.

But please would George O decide what his big economic strategy is and let everyone know?

Just asking mind, coz I might even vote for his lot if he deigned to tell me.

Anonymous said...

Anon 5.31 - just like Blair put up with Gordon briefing against him, usurping his authority, plotting against him, holding information against him and ultimately booted him out of office (just in the nick of time for Blair ironically).

I'm sure there was a point to your whinge but it escaped me.

George has learned a valuable lesson - as have we all - DO NOT TRUST NATHANIEL ROTHSCHILD as he's bought and paid for.

Lola said...

There are two issues here. The desperation of other parties to keep in the public consciousness the concept that the Tories are the landowners and 'toffs' in power and will exploit the 'working man' and the second is to destabilise the Cameron/Osborne axis.

The Tory values argument can only be won by getting into power and Doing The Right Thing by everyone.

On the second I have my doubts about the C /O axis. But that's possibly because I am no politician.

Catosays said...

I must say that I thought I'd posted here that Gideon had to go...maybe it was another blog.
However, my mind has not changed...the guy is useless. He sat there at last week's PMQs like a dog waiting a whipping.
He has had the most heaven sent opportunities to get in there and savage Jonah and Ali but what has he done?
He's done the square root of f..k all.
Sorry, dear boy, the man has to do the walk of shame. Get thee gone Gideon, for thou art useless.

Anonymous said...


Are you implying you have insider knowledge about this? Or is it just conjecture? My own view is that Cameron is ruthless - if he thinks it would be worth ditching Osborne, he wouldn't hesitate.

I wonder if you actually think Osborne is badly damaged and you're trying to shore up his position? Bit of an odd post otherwise.

strapworld said...

Iain, You have JUST noticed?

Well why shouldn't Tory MP's talk about Osborne. Let us not overlook the absolutely disgraceful FACT that Osborne bad mouthed two of his colleagues to that fair minded person Lord Mandleson! whilst they were enjoying lovely dinners in Corfu.

IF Osborne had any sense of propriety he would have resigned already.

I appreciate that you like Osborne. But I do not and think he has no idea whatsoever how the ordinary people think!

As for Cameron I just hope his, justifiable, anger shown today makes him appreciate that he has a really dirty fight on his hands and he needs real fighters around him. Osborne is no fighter. He would be better employed behind the scenes if he has to be kept in a position.

The Tories are neither the Stupid party or the nasty party but at the moment they are the Missing Open Goals Party.

I just hope today, which proved that Brown is a one topic individual and no quick thinker, has heralded a real change in Cameron and the Tory Party.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but wasn't this story given the legs it needed by a valid opinion poll which showed that support for George Osborne had haemorrhaged over the period of a month ??

Okay, one cannot take one month's figures in isolation and a longer term trend needs to be established.

But whilst 'one swallow doth not a summer make', where there are a host of starlings making a racket, one has to ask why this is ?

I'm not a betting man, but clearly the odds on George Osborne keeping the Shadow Chancellor post will be shifting if he previously looked impregnable and has now moved to be looking even a fraction more expendable than he was ??

There's no smoke without fire, and you look to have been given a word in the ear to p!$$ on the bonfire before it starts to get out of all control, and sets the entire forest alight...

Paul Burgin said...

Osborne can also be a nasty piece of work, and one could put forward an argument that, to cause destabilization, it would be best if Cameron and Osborne were joined at the hip, because if Osborne makes another silly and spiteful move, he can drag Cameron down with him as it would call into question Cameron's judgment.
On the other hand, if they want to play at being more statesmanlike as opposition leaders...

Anonymous said...

'The Daly Doth Protest Too Much'..

The real answer to bebopper's question is that Mr Dale would cut off his own nose before knowingly downgrade his website traffic stats - a Labour party supporter's clicks are the same colour's as anyone else's, so to speak...

Anonymous said...

Surely David Cameron will keep all his options open? If Osborne doesn't have the support of the public then I can imagine DC would consider doing a shuffle - DC is not so stupid as to show all his cards at this stage of the game...

If Osborne becomes a liability then he could go.

That would be a reasonable assumption...

Paul Burgin said...

"Unlike Labour Conservatives tend to set high standards for people aspiring to high ministerial office."
Not wanting to be cheap, but didn't we see some of those "high standards" during the Major years?

Anonymous said...

Iain just because I choose to remain anon, does NOT mean that I am not a Tory or truly believe that the party would be best served by Osborne's side shuffle to chairman.

I would also prefer Davis as party leader and I am a little uneasy putting up with Cameron just so that we can be re-elected into power. Ben Brogan has an agenda, as do the rest of us.

I have to say that Cameron did well today at PMQ's. There is no point wasting limited questions tackling Brown over the economy, as Brown will just quote statistic after statistic which can not be immediately challenged unless you are also a stat anorak. So there is little to be gained in the quick response that PMQs requires in this line of attack. As a finance minister Gordon will mostly always beat Cameron, as a PM with a vast remit into the world that the rest of us live in then Gordon is on dodgy ground and it is here that Dave should wage his war on Gordon.

Osborne has to be moved despite what Ben believes. as shadow chancellor he is Dave's weakest link.

Anonymous said...

Bebopper - What Dolly Draper knows is that the 'Guido' site, which has almost no 'moderation' whatsoever is the Number One blog. IainDale has some moderation, so is Number Two.

Sites which don't publish all the comments, due to various 'guideline' policies fall way behind in traffic.

All they have to do is to push for a 'bebopper' style policy, and they've ramraided the blog, and will move on to the next target.

Anonymous said...

Iain, You are WRONG on this...

If George Osborne survives, the Lord Mandy's curse will be broken, and his reputation as a malevolent c**t who ALWAYS settles scores with total destruction of his prey will be lost.

His Machiavellian streak, fuelled by ever greater success in ruining his opponents, and his unbroken record in using his disingenuous briefing and mendacious undercover tactics, will come to an end, and then where will we be ??

His 'Wizard Of Oz' reign of terror will be eliminated by someone pulling back the curtain and he'll be exposed as having feet of clay.

We cannot allow such a disastrous turn of events ! We must build up the 'Cult of Mandy' and strike the fear and loathing into the hearts of those who are considering crossing his path so that they just capitulate and do his bidding.

'The needs of business and the CBI demand it'...

That's right, painful as it may be, George Osborne's career must be the 'sacrificial lamb' for the greater good of Lord Mandelson's career and dastardly reputation..

Remember the panto season is just round the corner..

'George Osborne isn't finished..'


'Where's his career ?'


John Woodman said...

I'm not anonymous and I am a (paid up) Tory.

Being a brilliant strategist is irrelevant to convincing an electorate which is pretty comtemptuous of political strategists about his credentials as a potential chancellor.

Ever since the Northern Rock affair, when he was consistently unclear and contradictory, he has failed to present a coherent view of what should be done. Or to land any serious blows on Darling and Brown. He is out of his depth, and it shows: if he was such a brilliant strategist he would recognise this and move over for someone who could do the job, and into a purely political role.

I understand what you say about appearing to present Brown with a result. But frankly - who cares? That would be a short term story. What matters in terms of the next election is becoming an effective opposition and presenting sensible economic policies. Otherwise, to use your words, a Conservative Government Aint. Gonna. Happen.

Or perhaps that is also what you think and you are just trying to draw us out?

Anonymous said...

I agree with you. The amount of attacks that have been launched on Osborne over recent weeks just goes to prove one thing, they're scared of Osborne. And so they should be.

Anonymous said...

Lord Elvis November 12, 2008 9:00 PM

Paranoia really has set in. Draper must be pissing himself. Dont kid yourselves regarding your importance. Bloggs are dead. Guido and dale - how many hits. BBC and ITV 1000 times more hits a day.

Anonymous said...

One addendum. The one thing I would like to see Cameron and Osborne do is form an economic war Council consisting of Redwood, Clarke and Osborne so that the best economic talent within the Conservative party can, without internal politics clouding the issue, come up with some sort of constructive narrative on the economy that will be very hard for the Labour spin-doctors to counter. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I think such a move would be viewed favourably by the electorate and would show the public that the Conservative party appreciate the gravity of the situation. Win/win.

Anonymous said...

Miller 2.0,

This 'major fund raising scandal' you claim George Osborne has been involved in is a smoke screen of Scotch mist to cover up the real - and only scandal.

That is the scandal of the extensive hospitality that Mandelson has accepted from the Russian Oligarch, Deripaska and the trade tariffs from which Deripaska's business has benefitted.

Holidays on Deripaska's floating palace of a yacht. Flown to Moscow for dinner with Deripaska. His forgotten visa arranged in the blink of an eye.

The public interest requires an independent inquiry into Mandelson's involvement with Deripaska.

Anonymous said...

Anon said:

"If George Osborne survives, the Lord Mandy's curse will be broken...his unbroken record in using his disingenuous briefing and mendacious undercover tactics, will come to an end, and then where will we be ??"

Mandelson's 'curse' was twice broken by sacking him.

Can we sack Mandelson again?

Yes, we can!!

Anonymous said...

The opportunity to get rid of Osbourne has gone, its too late. Sack him now ( for what reason ). Will show Cameron as a ditherer. All the juice economic stories have probably passed and Cameron and Gideon failed to capatilise. Stop going on about Clarke, He hasnt a hope.

Anonymous said...

I think Osborne is a talented guy, but making economic arguments stack up and convincing the voters that they are better than Brown's is something that a succession of shadow chancellors have struggled with.

Clarke is now too old to be Shadow Chancellor, but we need a heavyweight politician in there: my preference is Hague's combative skills as Shadow Chancellor with Malcolm Rifkind returning to be Shadow Foreign Secretary. Make it clear that Hague is leading a team which includes Clarke and Redwood.

Given Dominic Grieve's intention to resign should we commit ourselves to repealing the Human Rights Act, it is a good time to move him and get David Davis back as Shadow Home Secretary. Once we have that, all the top positions will be occupied by experienced people who know their stuff and who are head and shoulders above their Labour opponents (I include Cameron after three years in his job). I would then feel a great deal happier about our chances.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ November 12, 2008 9:33 PM

Methinks thou doth protest too much. Game over.

Anonymous said...

Iain - I think you'll find it's not just Labour activists that think Osborne is useless. Me, I've been saying it for a long time - I really started paying close attention to him when he became Shadow Chancellor and thought he was a lightweight then. I was saying that Osborne should go back in 2005.... It's been interesting over the last 6 months to see other people coming to the same conclusion, and I'd say a substantial minority - if not a majority - of people I know now think that he's not up to the job, including some of the most virulently blue ones.

I hear what you say about his importance behind the scenes - but if he's good at that sort of thing, then you want him as the Tory Mandelson. But he just seems useless when it comes to financial matters - he may be clever, but he just doesn't have that "feel" for business or economics that say a Clarke does, and it really shows. OK, he obviously can present a briefing that's given to him, but for Chancellor you need someone who is much more capable than that. Unfortunately it seems that the Westminster village are more impressed by his relationship with Cameron than his knowledge of the economy - and I think that's a potentially fatal blindness. Certainly if the Tories fail to get a majority at the next election, the responsibility will fall squarely on Osborne's shoulders. It's stupid giving the job of being the Tories' Gordon Brown to their equivalent of Mandelson.

Anonymous said...

Boy George has one enemy.Take a look in the mirror George.

Anonymous said...

Methinks Iain doth protest too much. A Blair-clone like Cameron is not going to hesitate to do the ruthless thing (albeit with a charming manner and a friendly smile) to his Bullingdon chums when he sees the need. Osborne proved he isn't up to the job over Yachtgate and he hasn't done anything else spectacular to warrant keeping him on.

The good news (for the last few remaining Newlab supporters on Earth) is that if Osborne does stay on, the Mandy-Machine will be able to make heavy play of the Bullingdon Club piccies come election time!

Anonymous said...

Dale 5.35pm - "The Deripaska episode has actually strengthened Osborne's position."

Thanks Iain. Gave me a great breakfast-time LOL moment!

Anonymous said...

Its not too fanciful to imagine that because New Labour are in such trouble because of their mishandling of the UK economy that they have resorted to character assassination of their opponents in the comments to your blog.

There is plenty of evidence that New Labour and their media stooges have been doing this for months now to their opponents here in Scotland.

David Cameron needs to waken up to what is going on and get the Tories act together before Gordon Brown calls a snap general election.

The Tories must retaliate by attacking Gordon Brown;s record in politics relentlessly if they want to have any hope of winning the next general election.

Anonymous said...

In the past, I have used the hospitality of your Blog to observe that Mr Osborne's is completely unsuitability for the job of Shadow Chancellor.
When I did this I did so under my name - you are quite wrong to classify all such criticism as coming form anonymous bloggers.

Anonymous said...

I'm guilty of commenting negatively about Osbourne but I'm not part of a campaign in any way.

Also I am not a member of any political party although I do support the SNP these days and, at times, the Conservatives. For years I voted Conservative but, upon returning to Scotland, I considered the SNP's desire for independence was feasible and more in line with my wishes for my country.

My reason for commenting on George Osbourne is purely from a viewpoint of an outsider. From this distance I get a good all round view of Westminster and I hope my comments are accepted as positive.

By the way, I also criticise the SNP - my head isn't exactly in the sand!

Anonymous said...

I have to disagree. I have yet to see evidence of George Osborne's "brilliance" and top strategic mind.

Long before the crash I was asking Tory MPS at supper clubs when the national party was going to attack the Labour Government on the economy. I am not 'brilliant' nor a banker or economist, but it was obvious to me that Gordon's 'boom' was based of public & private sector debt and would come to a spectacular end sooner or later.

George Osborne's then policy was to stick to Labour's spending plans (and as a Councillor I could see how much tax payers' money was squandered).

Even if no-one had listened to us, at least we could say we had warned the government that their policies would lead to a crash.
Moreover our response since Northern Rock has been weak and uncoordinated.

George was naive taking hospitality from a dodgy Russian millionaire and gossiping about colleagues with Peter Mandelson.

He also lacks gravitas and looks like an overgrown schoolboy. This may seem trivial, but public perception matters.

"Ordinary people" are buying into the Labour line, that the crash is wholly a global matter and that Gordon is doing his best to get us out of the mess.

We had a wide open goal on the economy, but have missed. I am angry about this and I am sure there are many Tories who feel as I do.

Sacking George Osborne would be a scalp for Mandelson. However we do need to strengthen the team around George who should be kicking hell out of Gordon.

As Iain said in the Telegraph a few weeks ago we need more attack dogs at the top of the party. My problem with the Eton 'toffs' is not their privilege, but that they lack political experience and cannot oppose the Labour government effectively. We need more people at the top of the party who attended non Oxbridge universities and had to take on the Trots (NB many of the present government started off as Trots) and have been activists and Councillors in Labour constituencies.

Anonymous said...

Iain, do not be so silly. It is not just labour sympathisers who have it in for George. I was present when two very senior London Tories exchanged, shall we say, "indiscreet gossip" about the shadow Chancellor and - more surprisingly - his boss.

Chris Underwood said...

said more in hope than expectation Iain. Osborne's credibility is shot to pieces.

Anonymous said...

I am one of those anonymous posters who is anti Gideon and call me Dave, guess what Iain?

I was a tory party member for 20 years too. Sadly I did not leave the party, it left me.

The relentless drive leftwards, the hug a hoodie drivel, the reluctance to mention the elephant in the room, the EU, under any circumstances, the coy, lets copy Blair routines, the ridiculous lurch to discredited Keynesian / socialist / tax and spend economics, the backing of the first SOCIALIST President of the USA, the unchallenged betrayal of Britain and especially the English, the biggest opportunity to decisively destroy the incompetent sociopath Brown and the bloodsucking socialists for at least a decade, so far, squandered.

Really Iain, the list just goes on and on, the tories look all at sea, Gideon has the perpetual look of a rabbit in the headlights and Cameron looks and sounds like a socialist waiting for his turn at the trough of public finance / our money.

Where is the vitality, the new ideas that Brown cant steal or copy, like low flat tax for instance or shutting down the Quangos or real purge on waste, where is there any opposition to green energy taxes or VAT, surely two iniquitous taxes that harm the poorest most?

The answer is of course, there is none and we all know why that is, call me Dave believes in them, will do nothing to upset Brussels and at heart is broadly sympathetic to tax and spend, big government.

Though he may say he is against the fascistic, Stasification of the UK and the relentless loss of liberty, he sees its advantages, for an unaccountable political elite as well.

Like I said, I stayed true to individual liberty, low taxation, small government, capitalism, law and order, self reliance, national sovereignty and the rule of law ( as opposed to rule by directive ) the tory party did not.

I really do still hope however that the tories remove this government, if they continue as they are at present, there is a very real possibility they will not.

Brown and his gang of mercenary thieves, should be under concerted, co-ordinated daily attack, they are not.

There is no sense of anger among the tories, at what this country is becoming ( except yesterday ) instead they twitter at the edges about tax credits, that, like one of Browns deceptions, is so complicated and conditional, has as many negatives as positives and is, as good as useless.

It is NOT, in any shape or form, a concerted economic alternative to Browns grasping socialism.

McCain lost to Obama precisely because on so many issues they broadly agreed, rendering any attack on Obamas socialism impossible. The tories I fear are heading in the same direction as McCain, left, left, left, left, left.

Unless they change policy, key personel, remember they are not socialists and attack Brown relentlessly, Brown could still yet survive and that really would be, an epic disaster.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Iain but you couldn't be more wrong about Osborne. As recent events have proven, beyond any doubt whatsoever, he is not up to the task and has magnificently failed to take any advantage of the golden opportunity to destroy Brown that the present economic chaos presented.

Just because he is Cameron's mate and another member of the silver spoon circle does not mean he is the right man in the right job.

Anonymous said...

Sorry to disagree with you Iain - and I'm not a Labour Troll - but Osbourne by his words and deeds does not inspire confidence. It's as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

I am entirely satisfied with the performance of Mr Osborne.

Do let me know if you need any assistance to sustain him in his difficult role.

2345 said...


You're correct - attempts to 'divide and rule' is a well recognized Nulabor tactic.

2345 said...

tony sharp,

Poll percentages cannot be determined without the participation of 100% of the population. Media no longer informs on the basis of facts, mostly spin (lies) and manipulation.

Obama ignored polls as irrelevant - focussed on the job in hand - 85% of US citizens - alongside 85% of British citzens - wanted changed, hence his landslide victory which proved 'pollsters' to be a misguided joke.

2345 said...


The 12.2% growth Nulabor inherited from the Conservatives has been reduced to minus 26.2% ....

The results of Tory prudence and Nulabor's self serving madness.