Thursday, February 28, 2008

Why Cameron Is Centering on Public Disquiet About Politicians

There's a must-read post on Guido this morning on the reasons for David Cameron's selection of topics for PMQs yesterday. He concludes: "Cameron is going to try to run as the change candidate who stands against the shadowy, sleazy old ways of Westminster".

60 comments:

Andy said...

OK, but a lot of this deep polling, as pioneered by Mark Penn, can over-emphasise the importance of issues. Yes, this issue appeals to a group - but that group is not as likely as Penn suggests to be swing voters.

OK - there is an analysis that says the real TV audience for PMQs, outside of Westminster, are engaged by this issue. But trying to make 'Westminster' the monster under the bed, the way 'Washington' is in the US, is a risky road to go down.

Was Cameron too young to learn the lesson that 'Back to Basics' was the hostage to fortune that brought the party to its knees?

Also consider that Penn is Clinton's pollster, and that's not going so well. Microtrends may well be just a trend. Ashcroft would do well to take a pinch of salt.

The issue is an important one, but I agree with your analysis yesterday, Iain, that this argument about Parliament seems detached and navel-gazing.

To use the majority of his PMQs slot on it, was an error.

Andrew said...

It was a very odd performance from Cameron, no papers in his hand and a soft innocent tone.

Yesterday he was possibly attempting to sow the seeds of the idea that he 'stands against the shadowy, sleazy old ways of Westminster' without being too explicit about it.

I took it more as an attempt to use reasonableness to exploit Brown's inability to answer questions and thereby imply a lack of leadership on the subject.

I don't think either leader came off especially well.

Bob Piper said...

Oh noooo. Copying Obama AND Blair??? I do hope Unity doesn't produce another controversial image.

neil craig said...

"The change candidate"

Where did he get that idea?

strapworld said...

andy says :-

OK - there is an analysis that says the real TV audience for PMQs, outside of Westminster, are engaged by this issue. But trying to make 'Westminster' the monster under the bed, the way 'Washington' is in the US, is a risky road to go down."

RISKY?? For goodness sakes man Westminster is not the United Kingdom. It might seem like that for you stuck in Browns Kindergarten- But out here in the real world, with real people I can tell you in all my sixty plus years I have NEVER experienced such anger against politicians!

My best advice for you is to move out quickly because I am getting more and moire concerned that when, not if, inflation begins to bite (the real inflation - not the lie you and yours try to hide behind) then people will get extremely angry and ALL politicians may well need protection!

Westminster is a small village, that is all. Open your eyes and your ears and perhaps you may learn something.

You obviously dismiss the majority view of Iains blog yesterday!! Typical.

gary elsby stoke said...

This is a good angle to take.

'They are all bent, apart from me'.

er....Dave..

You are a Tory in the Tory Party. I would say: 'Get over it'...but..

It's us that hasn't.

Gary

Newmania said...

I do not believe it. I think you got it right first time Iain. I want Cameron to show he has some real respect for the public by supprting the Labour amendment to the refrendum

IanDavidson has succeeded where Nick Clegg failed by proposing a two question referendum which would ask:


"Should the United Kingdom retain its membership of the European Union?"

"If it remains a member of the European Union, should the United Kingdom approve the Lisbon Treaty?"

The amendment will appear on the Order Paper tomorrow and will come to a vote next Wednesday.

This amendment has a real chance of passing if the Lib Dems and the Conservatives support it


Stop mucking around with childish posturing Cameron and do something useful. MP s are not overpaid and in any case the subject of their pay and their expenses is the least importnat thing about them by a long long way .


Are we returning to the pre literate world of iconography where symbols replace reality entirely !!! Get back to Poltics and support the amendment you Mr. potato faced creep patience with whom I am losing!

Support the amendment

Anonymous said...

Strapworld - if you are really in your sixties, you'll remember the rioting of the eighties and the incessant protest marches of the eighties and nineties. I'm amazed you've NEVER known so much anger!

Largely there is passive acceptance that inflation is low - and the responsibility of the Bank of England, and that taxes are high.

Not much to be so angry about. I suggest you realise that in your own case, it might just be the dying of the light that's enraging you. The polls don't reflect widespread anger. or are they lying asa well as everyone else in your strange world?

Andy said...

Strapworld - you prove my point. There are a few angry little people like you, feeding on the Daily Mail 'Hell in a handcart' propaganda. That's fine, you enjoy it.

All I'm saying is that Cameron should ignore your red-faced minority of bilious spleen-venters entirely. You are bad people and should be ignored.

He should go after the people who don't care about Westminster, but do care about jobs, services and the economy. I think the new ads do that, I think his PMQs position didn't.

If these new ads make you confused and furious - they have succeeded.

Anonymous said...

Is Cameron adopting this course as just a populist measure to gain a few votes, or does he really believe in reform?

Anonymous said...

As council taxes rises are confirmed this week perhaps local politicians might be mindful of the public reaction to their allowances as well.
Some local councillors take home tens of thousands of pounds in special responsibility allowances (See Isitfair website.)
Will the Conservatives tackle this area of abuse? Will they make this more transparent? Unfortunately some Tory authorities are amongst the worst

only me said...

I think Heffer Confronted should be renamed Heffer Wipes The Floor With Me. Again.

PrintCreator 2.1 said...

15% interest rates

You can get it if you really want

Crumbling schools and hospitals

You can get it if you really want

6 million unemployed

You can get it if you really want

The nasty party

You can get it if you really want

not at all angry although nearly 60 said...

If this is his strategy he'll find he's made himself a "hostage to fortune" should he ever become PM. He should head Tony Blair's words about the perils of raising expectations unrealistically high and about how he now regrets playing the "sleaze" card so hard in the Major years...

JessTheDog said...

Horray for Guido!

I did not watch the performances, although I gather Brown did perform better than normal. My gut reaction, on reading the Guardian's transcript, was that Cameron was saying exactly what the country wants to hear.

The public holds politicians in utter contempt in a manner never seen before. This is partly due to the sleaze of the 90s, and partly due to the disappointments after the promises of 1997 (although if you study the numbers of votes cast instead of seats won, the landslide claim is quickly demolished). The main reason is not a continuation of this trend, but enormous outrage over the lies that were told over the failed Iraq war that no-one wanted and the failure (to date) to hold the architects to account. This has been reinforced by the cash-for-honours sleaze and a general perception that politicans are self-interested over-privileged liars.

Cameron should pick this up and run with it - this will have enormous resonance with the public.

Anonymous said...

Hm , Labour HQ trolls are out in force this morning to try and head this one off .

There is now a significant feeling out in the real country and mentally miles away from Westminster - difficult to define - that Westminster is a closed shop and "they're all the same "
mainly because they are .

Cameron needs to position himself as an outsider with an outsider's mentality and align himself with the people against parliament .

Amusing how Labour have gone over so completely to be the party of the corrupt old Establishment as evinced by many of the posts here .

Anonymous said...

Andy,

The Mail website had about 18 million unique users last month (up by over 160% over Jan '07) - "hell in a handcart" resonates more widely than you might suppose!

Kind regards,

Anonymous

strapworld said...

Andy said:

If I am a bad person in your eyes. So be it. You are certainly entitled to your muddled metropolitan thinking.I have more medals for service to this country than you will ever have.

If I am bad. You are sad, quite sad!

anonymous 11.56am brave of you that..anonymous!
'dying of the light' God that's original.

The rioting of the eighties? Are you talking about the Miners? when this country was controlled by Unions and Maggie took them on and won?

Or the Poll Tax? I do not think the majority of the people were rioting? I am sure that a revisit to that particular tax and people would be far happier with it now than the unfair and outrageous Council Tax.

or did I miss a blink. The scenes in London were orchestrated by the Socialist Workers and their ilk!

I do recall the Callaghan Government and the crematoriums closed and rubbish not collected. People were very angry then..but not as they are today.

Both Andy said and anonymous are obviously afraid of looking truth in its eyes. There IS more anger about today and David Cameron's excellent video (which is on Guido's blog) acknowledges that!

strapworld said...

Anonymous I almost forgot...its an age thing. Perhaps if you live to my fine old age you will discover that!

You go on about marches. Yes every weekend in London there was a march about something. Whatever problem arose in another country the great unwashed followed the posters condemning this or that. But they were mostly the socialists arranging these things.

Vietnam War...we were not in it!! yet all our students led by the oldest student in town JACK STRAW President of the NSU led his merry boys and girls. That stopped the war didn't it!

You do talk poppycock dear boy or girl. Now go back to your broons kindergarten and take a nap. You know it makes sense.

Andy said...

Anon 1.26

Absolutely, lots of people read the Hate Mail, but its the special people like Strapworld who actually believe it I'm talking about.

I'm just suggesting that Dave tries to direct his message wider than just to the foaming mouthed crazies.

Radical, I know.

Oscar Miller said...

All the Labour trolls on here that love to pour abuse on Daily Mail readers should bear in mind how much Gordon Brown loves the Mail and its headlines. He's been so close to Paul Dacre for so long that Dacre even went to the funeral of Jennifer Brown. All Brown's gimmicky 'policies' are just headline grabbers for the Mail. The hypocrisy of you lot is just too nauseating.

Paul Linford said...

I rather think given this week's events that Nick Clegg is also seeking to run against Westminster.

The trouble with both Clegg and Cameron in this respect though is that they are really the ultimate "political class" insiders.

canvas said...

How is going to do that then - sack half the party?

Anonymous said...

Jessthe dog - Polls at the outset of the Iraq expedition showed a clear majority in favour of it.

Tory HQ clearly out in force this morning (see, anyone can fire off silly accusations anonymously. Interesting is it?( Not!)

"If you don't agree you must be a lefty"

"Let's all have a go - Come on boys, we're Lefty-bashing in the quad to-day, get stuck in chaps!"

Do you realise what you sound like? Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Strapworld - hilarious! Are you "Verity" in disguise?

Unfortunately, old bean you have me wrong. I've voted for every main political party in my life, but nothing will ever bring me to vote in the shower that's led by Cameron. Nasty opportunists, manipulators, PR manufatured to a man (or token woman).

The Conservative party needs its aged appendage to wither away.

As far as decrying "anonymous" as "not brave", you insult the meaning of the word "brave" and the real courage of thosew who died so that you could remain to crow about your medals.

ps The Vietnam War was over by the time of the inner city riots of the eighties.

Anonymous said...

Strapworld - hilarious! Are you "Verity" in disguise?

Unfortunately, old bean you have me wrong. I've voted for every main political party in my life, but nothing will ever bring me to vote in the shower that's led by Cameron. Nasty opportunists, manipulators, PR manufatured to a man (or token woman).

The Conservative party needs its aged appendage to wither away.

As far as decrying "anonymous" as "not brave", you insult the meaning of the word "brave" and the real courage of thosew who died so that you could remain to crow about your medals.

ps The Vietnam War was over by the time of the inner city riots of the eighties.

Anonymous said...

See Sir ian Blair wants to know why the police weren't called into investigate your 'ol pal (And candidate for speaker) Derek Conway.

Does dear Derek like porridge?

Newmania said...

'Absolutely, lots of people read the Hate Mail, but its the special people like Strapworld who actually believe it I'm talking about.'


And what is it that you think the Daily Mail is wrong about ?

Immigration
Crime
Islam
Benefits Fraud
Falling Educational Standards
Political Correctness ( Gone Mad)
Useless Policing
Laughable Sentences
Labour Lies


Seems to me, the Mail is pretty much on the money.Your objection is probably to do with your class aspirations....

Tor Hershman said...

I don't mind attending the funeral (of William Buckley) if a lunch is provided, but I must be fed.

Special thanks to Charles Dickens the line.

Henry Rogers said...

Iain,

The points made by Iain Martin, Guido and (now) yourself are important and I don't think the public is going to roll over and go to sleep again any time soon. I think your Brown supporting visitors are probably beginning realise that too and finding it unsettling, in private if not yet in public. I'm sure, as some of them have suggested, that there will be a few more Tory figures in the deep and sticky but that needn't necessarily harm the party as long as there are no cover-ups.

BOF2BS said...

The big idea ----- or just another one?

I hope the former.

Newmania said...

This is interesting , I do not agree that there is really much anger against politicians except in that they are responsible for policies.There is certainly a great deal of anger on that score but since it is largely in the lower middleclass ,especially families , riots will have to be held on Sunday.
The dogs-on-strings brigade have never had it so good and basically the rest of us are busy.



Anon- You banale prattling clown you are so pleased with yourself reading your drivel is like watching some luridly onanistic dance and the same goes for your little oil boy Andy. I somewhat disagree with Strap world on this occassion but you would be improved by halting your current policy of breathing. Please try .

Daily Referendum said...

Anon@3:01

As far as decrying "anonymous" as "not brave", you insult the meaning of the word "brave" and the real courage of thosew who died so that you could remain to crow about your medals.

Anon, consider your words and look in the mirror if you can.

Anonymous said...

Well it's good that DC plans to stand for something. Let's hope it's not like Gordo's Vision thang which seems to have sunk without trace ...

Ian McKellar said...

and as well as persuading Derek Conway to stand down, he should announce that we shall be putting a Conservative Candidate in Glasgow North East against Speaker Martin. OK we're not going to win, the suburbs of Springburn and St.Rollox ain't really Tory territory. There's only been two Conservative Speakers in the last 30 years (Selwyn Lloyd and Bernard Wethearill) and at the General Elections they fought, they had Labour candidiates against them in Wirral and Croydon respectively. So its about time Gorbals Mick was told, you've either got a Tory against you or failing that tell our supporters to vote SNP to get rid of him

Anonymous said...

Daily referendum
I've re-considered my words and would go further.
Real bravery is not to be found in self-serving "pseudonyms" like Strapworld - I doubt that persons credentials in any case. Many people have lost their lives in recent years fighting for dubious causes in the service of this country. To claim to have medals, and then decry a non-pseudonymos anon as lacking bravery is ridiculous.

Newmania is a parody of a right wing "white-flight" bigot. Henry Rogers seems sensible, but is drowned out by the appalling crowing that is contributing to the fact that we don't have a proper opposition.

Henry, of course it's unsettling to see a party ahead in the polls that stands for ignorance and patronage and not much else.

I get angry - about idiot remarks like the virtually anonymous "strapworld", and his so-called "brave" friends. If he really did defend this country, the enemy can't have been up to much.

Paddy Briggs said...

"Cameron is going to try to run as the change candidate who stands against the shadowy, sleazy old ways of Westminster".

All too easy isn't it? Pick a target that the masses hold in contempt (Politicians, the European Union... whatever) find a platform where this appeal to ignorance and prejudice can be expressed. Get the RaRa brigade along to cheer you. "Win" the debate and drink in the applause and then move on. It's the Lynton Crosby approach to political success. But, thank goodness, it won't work here.

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that there is a major fault line between the House of Commons and the country.

H of C seems to be living in a world which is 40 years out of date. It is a world where receipts need not be given for expenses, because they are considered tantamount to a salary. Also, the people who are popular seem to be able to get away with an awful lot. Whereas those who are less popular have less tolerance shown towards their foibles.

At the same time H of C has imposed rules, regulations and laws on the rest of us which mean we cannot have expenses without receipts and are treated ruthlessly, if our conduct puts us in breach of regulations, regardless of whether we are popular or not.

Looming over all of this is are professional and strong police forces which is obliged to investigate any crime.

H of C is also losing a lot of power to Brussels.

H of C is losing powers just at the time when the police feel strong enough to “collar” miscreant Members of Parliament. It is a dangerous time for Members of Parliament. I have always thought that UK Parliamentarians have been very lucky, so far. The post-Cold war history of France and Italy is one of almost constant fights between individual politicians and investigating authorities. That situation may now be developing here.

The public will not tolerate “Spanish Practices” in the H of C, not least because we have had 29 years of the H of C attacking such practises among the miners, solicitors, print workers etc. etc.

David Cameron is right to raise this issue, although his performance on Wednesday was clumsy because he failed to stop Brown hiding behind the H of C every time he answered a question ie Brown would say “The House has already agreed that.” Cameron should have replied “What is your personal view, Prime Minister?”

Anonymous said...

WHAT

First Cambo was a whole sale moderniser, then morphed into a environmentalist, quickly followed by traditional moderniser, followed by hard core Tory with tendencies towards the modern.

Honestly I couldnt tell you which Cameron is – but it does seem that the chameleon label is very apt.

Anonymous said...

Transparency Transparency Transparency errrrrrr.

Only last week the full disclosure was made of monies paid to political parties in the previous financial quarter.

Funny but the Tories list still contained huge sums of cash from the CCS ( Coleshill Campaigning Service ), now known as The Constituency Campaigning Services Board, donated in excess of 40K to the Tories each Qtr last year. And since 2004 have coughed up over £1m

This shadowy organisation donate cash to the Tories via proxy. Each Quarterly donation of 40K is from smaller individual donations. These are lumped in as one. And we do not know who those individuals are

Check it out yourself


http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/regulatory-issues/regdonregulateddonee.cfm?ec=%7Bts%20%272008%2D02%2D28%2019%3A18%3A34%27%7D

Select all then search for Coleshill to see donations

strapworld said...

anonymous 3 01pm.

No not Verity - but she certainly writes more sense in one sentence than you do in all your anonymous scrawls.

Inner City Riots.I ask you!

Brixton! Liverpool!Bristol. all pockets contained in certain area's all brought about by police attempting to uphold the drugs laws!

Oldham (not a city) Burnley.Bradford possible
race riots mostly asian youths.

Hardly every city and town. Not a case of universal public disenchantment on a single subject.

You say you have voted for "every main political party" You certainly know your mind, old bean dont you!

As for 'insulting the word brave' you do not know what the word means.
Sadly I do and I thank the Lord I never had to have the likes of you alongside me!

DiscoveredJoys said...

One difference between now and the 70s and 80s is that public debate in the mainstream media (newspapers and TV) appears to be lacking the passion that once existed. Arguably the politicians and media are complicit in 'not rocking the boat'.

Where are the passionate calls for change? How do people agitate for change? We get palmed off with reviews which don't deliver and fixed in advance commissions. We get sound bite politics re-announcing last year's initiatives. Politicians (of all main parties) like to pretend that you can have change where everybody wins and there are no losers.

There are no 'must see' satirical programs (bring back 'Spitting Image'), there are few newspaper campaigns aimed at more than minor changes to processes so that 'it can never happen again'.

I suggest that the public are frustrated at being unable to articulate their views on important matters. The Iraq war - kicked into touch. The war on drugs - jobs for the boys. The war on terror - form an orderly queue at the airport. Cash for honours - you can't prove anything. Political funding - gosh, a clerical error. MPs expenses - don't trouble your pretty little heads.

Any politician that can take the current frustration and build it into a powerful force for change will bulldoze the Westminster Village. I believe that this is necessary if the country is to get through the catastrophic (no hyperbole) problems we are to face in the next 10 years. If the Tories can do this, then they will get my vote and support.

Unsworth said...

@ Paddy Briggs

"But, thank goodness, it won't work here."

Worked perfectly for Blair.

Henry Rogers said...

Anon 6:50 PM

Thanks for the kind words, but I'm sure if we sat down over a beer and talked politics we would both quickly conclude that the other is totally misguided!

For what it's worth I don't accept your position that the Tory party "stands for ignorance and patronage and not much else". Right now I would accept that a great deal less than usual, but I'm happy to agree to differ. I have plenty of friends who vote 'anything but Tory' as well as friends who vote the same way as I do. While I certainly think that Labour has totally lost the plot now and that much that has happened since 1997 reflects no credit on anyone, I certainly don't go in for wholesale demonisation. And I'm far too busy to go round hating people I disagree with.

And please, I really don't think this is a site infested with ultra-right wing headbanging bigots.

Not again said...

simply from my own expeience..

1997 Everyone wanted the Tories out. Sleeze ridden and bankrupt of ideas.. reduced to 'citizens charter'and 'Dangerous dogs' and guns. OUT OUT OUT.

The first Labour parliament was a success. Things FELT better, and even if they weren't they were certainly no worse.

However once the tory spending plans were abandoned by Mr Bean it all started to go wrong.
The initial spending on hospitals and schools WAS necessary and welcome. The increase of teachers, doctors and nurses pay; also overdue and necessary.

But, the drunken sailor PFI / privatisation spending without any attempts at real reform and just the maniac McBroon's constant 'target driven' agenda has lead directly to ruin.

Education , Educazion, Edjukashion.
tough on crime , tough on looking like tough on crime.

All utter garbage.

So crime and welfare payments rose as fast as taxes and new laws. Yet what is really better in the UK than 10 years ago?

The constant media manipulation , false announcements and downright lies are what have brought ordinary people to despise the whole NEW LABOUR third way mumbo-jumbo.
Topped off with snouts in the trough and total disregard for the law people ARE angry.

What has happened is the very people who enabled Mr Blair to win his historic election victories no longer support the clearly failed tax and spend and stuff policies of New Labour.

Labour isn't working is a campaign poster that I would not hesitate to use with a long line of ASBO hoodies, speed cameras, and soldiers graves snaking into the distance.

The cupboard is as bare of ideas as it is of cash. 10 years after real reform should have begun, it is being 'examined'.
TOO LATE.. TOO LATE..

What matters is what always matters.

Fuel, food , education , crime healthcare, security , transport, taxes , foreign policy and the economy.

Out of 10 Mr Brown how many would you say are going well..?

Newmania said...

The great fact of the last ten years is this . The Labour Party was a mass movement that lost half its members , with that and the decline of the unions it needed money and it stole it by selling honours and favours. The Conservative party are at all times ready for open donations only up to limit £50 k . No exceptions. That is all there is to be said and yet there is still noise .Other than wondering who is paying for it , I have less than no interest

Anon - I `m sorry I was hasty in being unkind to you . I see from your last remarks you may well be what they call ‘educationally subnormal’. I should feel sorry for you, but I get so easily bored…...

Paddy I am not impressed with this side show but I do not share your confidence it will not work. When Labour ran an election campaign on the back of the "symbol" of Jamie Bulger, a Pandora’s box of infantile gestures was opened .. and then 'She was ..was she not ...the people’s princess.'
Cameron is as yet only dipping a toe into the open sewer of insulting pre literate and faintly Latin iconography. Labour encourage the English to confuse the symbol and the fact. Cameron is the soul of restraint by comparison and it is at least symbolic of real political corruption. Personally I detest this road labour have lead us down ,though. Poor show Cameron but hardly on par with the barbaric leering oafs of sentiment opposite

Anonymous said...

There is simply no excuse for direct robbery of the public purse. MPs wages are already generous enough for anyone with an ounce of public spirit in their being.

Cameron has a WIN WIN situation here he would be mad not to exploit as much as he possibly can. He certainly does not NEED the extra cash personally. Neither does the vast amount of his PP. Any more is just GREED.

This is all about straight forward fraud of the tax payer. Inspired by Whips Office control freakery.

Its not about other forms of corruption self interest and graft.

These are also vitally important issues as well. But they are a different issue, far harder to sort out, and can wait for another day.

Insisting on complete honesty when claiming expenses should be one of the simplest tasks David Cameron can perform as Leader of the Conservative Party.

Doing so with no if and no buts, as he well should know, would bugger up the Labour Party for generations to come.

Who have clearly believed they could,( because they already have,) carry on getting away with literally bloody murder.

Paddy Briggs said...

Re: Blair

I agree that there are disturbing echoes of Blair in what Dave is trying to do - but that's not a real surprise is it??

Anonymous said...

anon 1.26 pm

"The Mail website had about 18 million unique users last month"

Impossible!

Anonymous said...

Undercurrents are important and not to be ignored.

The average MP is raking in 200,000 a year. Their second homes are subsidised in a country where many people are going to the wall trying to buy one.

Ask any man in the street about 'Speaker Martin'. The reply is a shrug and, 'they're all at it'. So, not only do we become more cynical, we also become more critical.

People are finally asking: Isn't it about time MP's had some proper qualifications? Do we really need some 600 MP's? Certainly I'm not alone in having a local MP I never voted for and doesn't turn up for work half the time.

Are MP's even professional? Recent ramblings - from HIPS to Prozac - shows they don't have a clue about how the rest of us live. And while they are employing a 13 year old son or an aged mother as a researcher, they are never likely to be any the wiser. The average blogger is better informed than the average MP and usually has something more meaningful to say. Actually, every day. So who needs the House of Commons?

Cameron is a good person to ask questions. He doesn't need the money like the gravy grubbing Blairs. We've reached a point now where you really don't want to vote for anyone - they are all so tainted and discredited. I'm not alone in wanting the Taxpayer's Alliance to form a party. Particularly after Northern Wreck.

Iain Dale said...

Your first line is a load of bunkum. How on earth you come up with that figure is beyond parody. You are treating office costs as income. So staff wages are income for an MP now are they? YeGods.

Verity said...

As Dicovered Joys notes: "The war on drugs - jobs for the boys. The war on terror - form an orderly queue at the airport. Cash for honours - you can't prove anything. Political funding - gosh, a clerical error. MPs expenses - don't trouble your pretty little heads."

I would add the country whose citizens are under the most intense electronic surveillance in the world. More intense than Russia or China. I would add the plan for universal identity cards. I would add losing CDs containing the personal financial details of millions of British citizens. I would add the inability to bang up murderers, rapists and paedophiles because the prisons, disgracefully, are full. I would add not securing our own borders and being forced, by our own government, to accept, unopposed, an alien invasion in the socialist cause of the unwanted and mad "multiculturalism" - an invasion by people adhering to a primitive belief system incompatible with an advanced, secular Western society. An invasion, if I'm not wrong, larger than the Norman invasion, which at least the Normans won fair the square and they brought with them a vast portmanteau of new words that enhanced our language, posh cooking and fancy foreign ways and attitudes that we found intriguing.

The contrast is heartbreaking.

We are also seeing a flood of our own people, the indigenous British, selling up, packing up their chattels and their genius and giving up on Britain. (I would be interested also, in fact, in the number of professional and entrepreneurial Indian NRIs leaving either to go to the US or Canada, or to return to the drive, energy and dynamism of the economy of India. I wonder if those figures are available.)

Britain feels moribund. Slagged out. And all in eleven short years. It feels like forever.

Newmania said...

Verity I agree with you that the rate of immigration is more like an invasion than anything else and parts of that invasion act with the cultural arrogance of the British in India .. ( with rather more excuse).

LABOUR`s ETHNIC CLEANSING
Labour are 15% behind in the SE and that includes red/immigrant London .I have wondered about the extent to which Labour are ‘ethnically cleansing ’ the white English from the South as much as they can. Labour are trying to build us out of London”… said a ‘well know Tory ‘,recently and of the 3 million homes to be built in the SE 1million if them according to govt, figures ( quoted by N Soames MP and unchallenged ) will be taken by immigrants not yet here .
This is the shape of the future though .The top ten authorities with the highest percentage of pupils whose first language is not English :1 Tower Hamlets: 75% 2 Newham: 71% 3 Westminster: 69% 4 City of London: 65% 5 Brent: 58% 6 Camden: 58% 7 Hackney: 54% 8 Ealing: 54% 9 Haringey: 53% 10 Kensington and Chelsea: 52%.You can bet no Labour MP sends their children to school anywhere where they are failing to cope with eight languages .


If it cannot be called ethnic cleansing it is certainly a deliberate ethnic attack on the English for crude political motives. I wonder if we can expect thios point to be made in the Forthcoming BBC series “ White” ………d`ya think ?

Anonymous said...

"red-faced minority" Aren't they Guardian readers?

verity said...

Newmania - WHAT??? ...

"parts of that invasion act with the cultural arrogance of the British in India ..".

As I made clear viz my reference to NRIs, that I referred to Indians who had settled in - and contributed to - Britain and may be now moving away. There was no reference, direct or allusive, to the British administration of India which ended 60 years ago, for God's sake! We are discussing the 21st Century here!

YOur following paragraphs are apt, though. Yes, it it ethnic cleansing by the government of the people it is ethnically cleansing, which has got to be a first.

I believe that Harriet Harman, Dianne Abbott and the rest of the fat socialist slags do not send their children to Labour disinformation centres, aka "schools".

This is why I asked about figures for our Indian immigrants - specifically those wealth-creators whose parents/grandparents were kicked out by that great genius Idi Amin - deserting Britain and going to India (which they have a right to do as NRIs) or taking their entrepreneurialism, their law abiding habits, their discipline in learning - elsewhere. Perhaps it's not just us that are being swilled out of our own country but Indians, too. And how many Jews have left for Israel since the stench of New Labour blew in under the national door?

I have a feeling it's not just the clever indigenes they want out.

Chris Paul said...

How on earth has this thread become a dumping ground for speculation about Indians and Jews and indigines? It's about Cam having a bad day at the tap dancing coal face while Gordon finds a bit of rhythm. Cam was crap. Second week in a row.

Anonymous said...

Henry - you say "And please, I really don't think this is a site infested with ultra-right wing headbanging bigots." Read the rest of this thread!

The Conservatives depend on people like you and me to continue engaging on sites like this - if the blogosphere were left to the rabid bigots, they would not stand a chance of being elected.

An example of ignorance is the continuing peddling of £110bn support of NR as "spending". An outright lie, attempting to perpetuate ignorance of the actual situation.

Grass roots? Stifling weeds more like. Weak minds.

Paddy Briggs said...

We are also seeing a flood of our own people, the indigenous British, selling up, packing up their chattels and their genius and giving up on Britain.

Verity: What a truly vile post even by your mucky standards. Is it your inention to stir up racial hatred between the indigenous people and the rest? mmmmm I suppose that it is. You should be ashamed.

Henry Rogers said...

Paddy 4.30pm

This thread has undoubtedly gone miles off-topic, which probably disappoints Iain but:

Though you may not agree with Verity's politics, though you may loath her and everything she posts, "Don't shoot the messenger". She may live in Mexico but she accurately reports what many people are quite happy to say out loud even if you won't hear them saying it on the BBC or read their words in the Guardian. There is great resentment around in Britain today for more or less the reasons Verity has stated in many posts. It may be utterly deplorable, we can surely agree there, but it's fact.

For better or worse the people who are getting the blame are the political elite in all main parties. When the public also begins to feel that it is being ripped off, as well as messed about, it's not surprising that many don't bother to vote, others are tempted to vote for thugs and some decide to go and live elsewhere.

If people who think they are well meaning keep their heads buried in the sand we won't be able to turn this one round, which we must if we don't all want to end up living in a hell-hole. Some people are already forced to do that though probably only a minority of us who post here. So this means all sorts of uncomfortable rethinking and a good place to start is 'Spanish Practices' in Parliament. That's only a start though.

Anonymous said...

Newmania said...

"This amendment has a real chance of passing if the Lib Dems and the Conservatives support it"

Interesting, but they won't; and if some do, most will make sure they they support the politicians eu-gravy train.


Anonymous said...

"To claim to have medals, and then decry a non-pseudonymos anon as lacking bravery is ridiculous."

When we get rid of the lib/lab/cons and the likes of you are arrested for treason we shall see how brave you are in face of your punishment. Ideally it will be televised.

Paddy Briggs said...

"Verity: What a truly vile post even by your mucky standards. Is it your inention to stir up racial hatred between the indigenous people and the rest? mmmmm I suppose that it is. You should be ashamed."

What Verity said is entirely true. English people are flooding out of this country whenever they can. Most of those staying only do so because they must. Do you really believe the imbecilic rubbish you post?

Verity

I don't know if there are any figures but there have certainly been news reports of Indian professionals abanding the cesspit that England has become and moving to India.