I'm posting this before I know the result as I am driving to Wetherby early in the morning to speak at the Yorkshire Conservative Conference and won't have a chance to blog. So do use this as an Open Thread to discuss the Glenrothes result and anything else.
131 comments:
http://www.torybear.com/2008/11/stop-press.html
BREAKING: The bastards have actually retained Glenrothes with a majority of ovr 6,000.
What an awful awful day. I think I might avoid the news so I don't have to see Gordon looking all smug.
*Depressed*
I'm shocked. Shows how events can have such a bearing on an assumed outcome. I reckon 2 factors:
- Brown bounce
- Effective attack on SNP council home care charges
The Brown bounce will evaporate over the next month or two as the recession bites. If the HBOS takeover is forced through, it will cost tens of thousands of jobs. Brown is toast, the toaster simply hasn't pinged yet!
Earlier this evening I tried a counter-factual analysis to try and analyse a Labour victory. Still couldn't convince myself! Hey ho!
Depressed, are you mad, John? Brown will now be pressured to call an early General Election before the economy slides any further out of control. We can get rid of Brown and nulab at last.
What more do you want, jam on it?
So:
the economy is falling to pieces, people are losing their jobs and their homes,
anyone living off their savings is seeing their income go down the toilet,
the IMF has said the UK is the worst placed to deal with the global recession,
large parts of the NHS are in tatters,
the State is incapable of managing its role or keeping to budgets or protecting security,
but the Scottish electorate keep voting Labour.
Just what is in the water up there?
crap, i was rather hoping this would end the brown bounce. this has been a really bad week for conservatives.
The TORIES are to blame for this result they are so inept and have not capitalised on any of the numerous chances Brown offered.
mark my words you will see another 8 years of Labour as the Tories are just so shit.
The ordinary man in the street could put up a better show at PMQ than Cameron does Tories are too lightweight.
So we can all look forward to ID Cards, Road Pricing, more interference fromlocal government etc etc oh so frickin depressing stupip Tories - The SNP tried their best but get no media coverage as Labour dominates it.
auntie flo.
I agree, let's hope it encourages these bar stewards to hold an early election.
Hilarious.
Brown will be encouraged to call an early GE on the back of this (plus lefty feelgood Obama stuff).
Ignore the fact that this is one of NuLab's safest seats in Scotland, and they still lost thousands of votes...
The Economy is still heading south and NuLab will still be wiped out by the non-mongs who aren't quite as tribal as the Glenrothes voters.
The longer they leave it, the bigger the wipeout.
!9,000 brain dead!!
Jeez, the sods would rise out of their graves to vote for this shower of shite.
Might be a good idea to check the voters registers and the postal votes!!
This is a case of special circumstances.
Labour have run against the SNP in Holyrood and Fife - not on a UK govt ticket. ( Which shows they have little to brag about. )
The Scots have lost their self confidence after the proposed nationalisation of HBOS and RBS and think they may still need a mainline injection of English money without ever having to say thank you - and Labour are best placed to provide this.
The end result is that an early general election now looks likely.
However now the Brown bank rescue is unravelling in the UK (and US) they shouldn't be counting their chickens before the hatch.
For party to increase its share of the vote three years in to a third term of government is without precedent -- an unbelievable result for Labour and Gordon Brown in particular.
If there's one thing this result tells us it's that the pundits (particularly the ill-informed types who frequent the right-of-centre blogosphere) very often have no idea what they're talking about.
Financial meltdown has played well for them.
Gordon is now heading towards us all with a gleam in his eye and a bulge in his trousers.
Arrgh!
Please God, No!
The Tories are non existent in Scotland. This is a slap for the SNP. The credit crisis has effectively killed of Scottish Independence. End of Story.
The SNP have had their record in office traduced - a poor show by them all round.
As for why scotts vote labour
1st - remember the history of this constituency
2nd - I have just spent a couple of days in Glasgow. If you want to see why they vote labour just walk up Saltmarket and see the ruinous state of the place see all the shambling shell suited figures puffing (in every sense) their way through the ruined streets. Take a taxi back to the airport and see the pathetic shambles that generations of socialist rule has done to the place.
A decrepit dumbed down 'squalid ridden' client electorate.
This was always going to be a mountain to climb for the SNP. The area has always been traditional Old Labour whose loyalists still genuinely believe that they are voting for Old Labour when they give their votes to the New Labour party.
It was also always on the cards that Scots voters would seek to have what they see as the best of both worlds by playing the tactical game of strongly supporting an independent acting Government of Scotland led by the SNP, whilst at the same time their primeval fear of the Tories leads them to still tacitly support an allegedly left wing Labour government for the UK as a whole.
Added to that was another wholly negative campaign by New Labour in their belief that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
However the lies can be maintained only for such time as New Labour can shield the people from the political and economic consequences of the lies.
In the run-up to the by-election it thus became vitally important for New Labour to use all of its powers to repress dissent via its control of the Scots media, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of New Labour.
However their holding on at Glenrothes is but a temporary respite for New Labour as the wheels will come off New Labour's bus in the next 12 months as voters witness famous UK businesses folding on a weekly basis and unemployment rocketing to 1930's levels when the UK recession really begins to take hold.
Voters are already wakening up to the fact that the person responsible for the carnage is residing in 10 Downing Street and will take their revenge in full at the UK General Election.
Voting Labour is the Scots equivalent of circumcision - it doesn't particularly do you any good and it may sometimes be painful, but it is inevitable if you are of the faith.
As a Unionist, this result is acceptable as anything is better than the SNP.
The comments on this blog amongst others just go to prove just how out of touch and nasty the Tories still are, despite Camerons shallow efforts to cleanup the `brand`.
Referring to folk as `brain dead` and worse (yes I saw the disgusting comment now deleted) illustrates the utter contempt in which Tories still view those who disagree with them. Additionaly the electorate are starting to recognize that the Tories have had nothing positive to say for years and `calll me Dave` is nothing better than a arrogant playground bully
GGGAAAAHHHHHHH! WHY? What will it take for people to wake up?
We've got that idiot Osborne to thank for it
as a Tory why should I worry? - The SNP messed up locally so they got the black eye - Unelected liar Brown is still going to loose - sooner rather than later
"Ignore the fact that this is one of NuLab's safest seats in Scotland, and they still lost thousands of votes..."
Errrm, no, they didn't, actually. Labour increased its vote from 2005. The Tories halved their vote though, if you're looking for comparisons.
More power to Gideon!
Osborne must go now. We are not laying a finger on Brown on the economy.
He is seen as the answer rather than the problem.
Osborne's politics-first approach was good when it looked like this would be a re-run of 97. But this now looks like an 87 election and we will need a credible alternative.
Rog, they didnt lose thousands of votes I'm afraid.
Their total vote and their vote share are both UP on the general election.
You simply can't spin this as bad for labour. It is an amazing result.
trevorsden - two days in Glasgow result in your incisive analysis of voting behaviour in Scotland! A bit like judging London on the basis of having visited Tower Hamlets.
As a Glaswegian who has lived in England for twenty years I can tell you that I've come across better educated people with more considered opinions in the slums of Glasgow than I have among the so-called middle class of England.
Why have Scots traditionally voted Labour? It's because Labour has been seen as the party of social reform. Labour has satisfied both urban dwellers and those in rural communities who lived under a feudal system.
Jay
Hope Gordy calls an early election. That would be great!!
The sooner we see the back of ZaNu Lab the better.
What kind of man is Cameron?
A supposed leader, he ignores the groans from his supporters over his support for Spelman.
He ignores the groans from everyone about the ridiculous boy george and his yachtgate affair -which will not go away- and his inability to take on Darling and Brown over the financial crisis.
He seems obsessed with boom and burst! He sounds shrill when in the chamber and needs to get a voice and acting coach (Blair did)
He surrounds himself with his kind. Eton/public school - excepting William Hague who is a blessing!the oasis in a desert of nondescript politicians.
Cameron obviously thinks that he can walk into Downing Street. Think again. Brown is developing into someone the people will feel they NEED!! god forbid.
Either Cameron wakes up quickly and removes Osborne, Spelman and the Eton Cabal or Tory MP's should deliver a karate blow.
This was a typical parish council election. Not a national issue in sight. Mr Chips gave six of the best to those Mcrotters in the Upper Reform and by tomorrow it will all be forgotten.
Whatever the result in Glenrothes the economy is still in the toilet.
Brown is still responsible. Nothing has been done to reverse the tide. Christmas will be bleak , that will focus peoples minds on the reality. Anothher Brown term will be catastrophic for the UK in general and a tragedy for England.
Great result! Looking forward to Dave 'Obama' Cameron's 'Winds of Change' speech next..
Auntie flo', I hope you're right.
Still can't help feeling a little glum this morning, though, if not entirely surprised.
"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."
- Joseph Stalin
Well done to the Tories for overtaking the Lib Dems in the also rans. Tellingly Salmond tried to coat tail Obama just as Cameron has been doing. Theirs is NOT the change people want. Just now, for how long I do not know, the people WANT BIGGER, KINDLIER GOVERNMENT.
And they certainly do not want separatists who compare themselves economically to Iceland, or men whose claim to inexperience is ten times as great as Obama's.
Cameron has never lived. The word verification calls him "canker". Which is going too far but he represents the experienced in:
- never having any struggle
- always being top dog
- economic liberalism
- national isolationism
- feed the rich
- stuff the poor
- jolly boating weather
And what's more he has NOT GOT A PLAN. Apart from self aggrandisement.
What can you say? There is an ingrained trait of voting Labour, no matter what they do? The local issues played heavily in the result?
On the whole, the SNP has operated as a true socialist, party of the people, while Labour has merely acted to stay in power. People are thick. Only when jobs and houses and pensions and benefits vanish will they wake up. Clearly the crisis has not hit Fife just yet.
Hopefully this will shock the Tories into getting some real metal into their game. The economy is in a dire state, thanks to McBroon, yet the Tories fail to exploit the many open goals.
I have to agree with some of the other posters - Osborne is a lightweight and a liability. He must be replaced urgently by someone with gravitas and grit. No time to waste.
Anonymous said...
"We've got that idiot Osborne to thank for it"
Anon, you're mental. This wasn't a win for Brown, this was an anti-politician win for Lyndsay Roy, a local, headmaster and non-politician fighting for the issues that matter in Fife.
Issues like:
The SNP's threatened Independence would damage the massive English subsidy of Scotland - so loved by Fife which has been in recession for 20 odd years, and which fears worse to come in the present economic climate.
The Salmond backed, Trump golf course bespoiling Scots countryside.
The SNP's care charges.
Yet, despite the huge pull of such issues towards Labour, they lost votes and the SNP increased its support.
This result will only increase the resolve of England to get blood sucking Brown and nulab off our backs.
Before the Labour party supporters gloat over 'wonderful Brown', they should pause and reflect that this is one of the two safest seats in Scotland, the other one is Brown's. If this had gone to SNP, Brown's seat would have become marginal.
You know now what kind of tribesman Brown is coming from this Labour tribal land.
It was always SNP vs Labour and many stupid Labour supporters extend this to England. Brown bounce is like the bounce hehad when he beame the unelected PM and then came flood last year.
I worked in Scotland for over 10 years.
The socialist Labour tribal Scots go to politics like Brown and the enterprising Scots either move to Britain and Germany or leave Europe.
an error: I should have said: 'enterprising Scots move to England...'
I'm not that disappointed by the result- at least PG remains leader of Fife Council. As to who i'm voting for next GE i'm swinging toward SNP from Conservative. I just don't like Cameron or bloody Osborne. I think 'Yah Wars' was the last straw for me.
I can't see how an Osbourne replacement would have made much difference in Scotland. End of SNP honeymoon?
South of the border is a different matter. We need Ken Clarke as shadow Chancellor.
Do you ever use public transport, Iain?
As for Glenrothes, this is concrete evidence that Cameron and Osborne need to up their game. They're letting Brown off the hook and I can't understand why. If they don't have the stomach for the fight, maybe they should step aside...
The worst result is for LibDems. They took the MSP seat from Labour not very long ago in this Holyrood region. Ming Campbell kept on repeating how they would
destroy Labour and Tories have no place here in this region. Perhaps he will eat his words. The Tories might have come 3rd but they are ahead of LibDems.
The Labour tribal feelings (unlike the working class Glasgow) run high in this Labour tribal land. The swing to SNP is 5%, that is impressive and a bit more swing would have meant Brown's seat would have become a marginal. Hence Labour gloating sounds brainless.
Well said Chris Paul.
Yours is the sort of braying mindless arrogance that we have come to expect from Labour, and, in time, will prove to be your downfall.
So keep it up.
Right, Dave. Here's what you need to do. Sack that little twat Osborne, get Clarke in and start going for Brown's jugular. We can't afford to piss about now. Can you imagine having Brown as PM until 2015? Please please get your act together, Dave.
The Yorkshire Conservative Conference eh? Is it held in a phone box?
"The Yorkshire Conservative Conference eh? Is it held in a phone box?"
You're joking! From my experience of living there for a few years, racism and intolerance is endemic throughout all classes. I expect the place is teeming with Tories.
Is it just me or does this actually prove that Gideon is a useless spineless piece of shit? Just askin...
Ahhhh! Poor old Bullingdon Dave. Looks like the top job isn't going to be served up on a silver platter for you, unlike everything else in your life.
Chris Paul is an annoying arrogant deluded cretin. But he's kind of got a point about Cameron. What exactly is his plan? What is his 'character'? What is his experience? Basically, why the hell do we expect people who aren't instinctive tribal tories to vote for him?
Chris paul always remember
He who laughs last laughs longest!
I will wait!
Look at the occupations of the majority of people in Glenrothes. The overwhelming number are paid from the public purse! So it stands to reason that they would support Brown.
Although I do believe the nonsense over the Trump Golf Resort will come back to haunt Labour! When they realise how many jobs are created and how many people visit the area when completed, bringing greater wealth and prosperity to the area.
When they realise that the wildlife will adapt -as it has adapted wherever man has created something! Remember much of London was once Forest and open fields! There is still a great abundance of wildlife.
These conservationists drive me potty. Every time they cry out disaster...time proves them so so wrong.
So when the Trump excercise proves a great success WHO will get the benefit? The SNP of course and Labour could lose big in Scotland. Even Brown!
But the Conservatives have got to raise their game and Cameron is proving that the game is to big for him.
He said he was ready for the job they said was too big for him. He has proved that he just cannot do it!
Enter Kenneth Clarke. The man for these 'troubled times'
God alive! See the trolls are out rooting for Ken Clarke again.
strapworld
I normally disagree with most of what you say but you are absolutely right about Cameron. He's done a good job up to this point but I just think he's now out of his depth. Too young, too inexperienced, too shallow. Time to handover to a big beast with some depth, wisdom and, above all, big balls.
Kafka said...
God alive! See the trolls are out rooting for Ken Clarke again.
No, some may be trolls but I've spoken to lots of real Conservatives who don't think Cameron and Osborne are up to the challenge. Ken is an obvious alternative for them. For what it's worth, my own view is that he probably wouldn't be interested in going back to the frontline. But it's quite hard to think of who else has enough experience in the right areas. A sign of general anxiety on the right is the talking up of John Redwood who was always from the second-rank and is regarded in many parts of the country as a weirdo and a buffoon.
I have to agree with those that are calling for Osborne to be replaced.
There will only be one narrative between now and the election - the economy, and Osborne is just not being heard or seen.
What I do read about his views seems to be contradictory.
We need a heavy hitter. Somebody that can make the argument that whilst this may be a global problem, the UK is poorly placed to get through it.
Gordon Brown seems to hve been given a free run to argue the opposite.
The IMF only yesterday came out with a report that shows Brown is lying.
It shows that amongst all of the economies, with the exception of Ireland, the UK enjoyed the greatest house price increases between 1997 and 2007, that were not supported by the underlying strength of the economy. The IMF use this 'gap' to predict house price falls.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2008/02/c1/box1_2_2.pdf
Browns economy boom was based on house price increases and the IMF have stated that they were delusional.
The IMF report should now be used to hang Brown at every opportunity and ensure the public recognise that it was Brown that put the UK in this position. You cannot do that if you are mute and invisible like Osborne has been.
The UK's forecast for 2009 has been revised by the IMF by a greater extent than any other country (a reduction of 1.8% since July 2008 forecast) see table on page 2 of Chapter 1 of the report.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2008/02/pdf/c1.pdf
Furthermore Brown has made the running with his claim to have led the world in the banking bail outs - the tories should be pointing out that he has led the world up what so far has been a dead end.
He may have bailed out the banks, at a cost of hundreds of billions, but he has not achieved the aim of bailing them out - to get them lending again at realistic rates.
He has spent the money on snake oil which has had only a placebo effect up to now.
It is easy for Labour to spend money - what is more difficult is to get value for that money. So far the public have not seen any value.
Get the bloody train Iain!
What is a bit dispiriting is that Labour hold their second safest seat in the country and all the right wing commenters seem to implode!
Get a grip chaps and don't join in the Labour spin that this is a great victory for Brown. It isn't.
It is a symptom of the Labour affliction that they all think this is great news.
Not really, john miller. NuLab have been desperately unpopular, getting turned over in completely safe seats and generally giving the appearance of impending electoral meltdown.
Glenrothes is hard evidence that something different is happening now, something that is better news for them and worse news for the tories. Hence the tone and nature of the reporting.
1. I don't think it's just the trolls wanting Ken Clarke back. I've been saying for some time that Osborne is a light weight. Clarke would be far better.
2. No-one is getting across the message that the current crisis is as much Browns fault as anyones. he keeps saying that it's international, and he gets away with it.
3. Brown also keeps telling us that national debt has been reduced, and no-one is challenging him strongly enough.
4. He's also constantly telling us that that the UK is better placed to fight the recession than other countries. This defy's what is being said by the EU and IMF, but again no-one has seriously challenged him.
5. Glenrothes has not begun to feel the recession yet. No job losses, a majority being public employees.
Stop telling Iain to get the train. It's his inalienable right as a Conservative to do whatever he wants, however selfish.
By the way, Osborne has been so kak in recent months that I'm starting to think a senile Maggie might do a better job. Maybe Boy George could wipe the dribble off her chin when she's at the despatch box.
AsI said. Put up a Teddy Bear in a Labour seat with a red rose on its lapel and the gullible will vote for it.
It proves that the Labour voters are a bit thick.
Clarke is certainly no lightweight! Reminds me of Monsieur Mangetout in that Monty Python sketch. Imagine him exploding at PMQs, showering MPs from all sides with the contents of his grotesquely swollen belly.
I agree with those who are fed up with Osborne. But the trouble with Clarke is that as a fatty he almost certainly has a dick like a mini cocktail sausage (see Prescott). We need someone who can give it to Gordo properly.
"It proves that the Labour voters are a bit thick."
Anyone remember John Major?
I'm just about to eat my dinner. Can whoever's posting these graphic comments about Clarke please hold off until, say, 12.30? Cheers.
What are you having, anonymous?
Sausage sandwich.
When's Iain getting back?
Chris Paul "Cameron has never lived" you're mental too.
Fact is Brown's a toff.
Though he's no experience of anything outside career politics and a few months teaching...sociology...and has never run a company, never managed anything but the huge cock up he's made of our economy, Brown is the heir of his Insch family who made a great deal of money.
The Insch Souters, Brown's mother's family, were big money, land owning, farming and merchant Scots demi-aristos. Shame Brown didn't stop around long enough to learn something from them aside from how to reap the benefits of inherited money and how to live off of others' toil.
Brown's is no more a son of the manse than I'm the Queen. His family virtually owned the town of Insch.
Brown's mother was privately educated with part of the proceeds of the Trust Fund her father left her. She married her rector (Headmaster of a 425 year old school) in silk and tiara - during the wartime austerity.
Brown comes from a decidedly elitist family and had a very nice lifestyle indeed.
Brown was born in Glasgow alright - in the Scots equivalent of London's Queen Charlotte's Hospital - with fees to match.
The family lived in a large detached manse that would sell for millions now.
I don't believe Brown's claims that his family could not have afforded private treatment for his eye either, in fact, how do we know that he didn't have private treatment since he and his family had other private healthcare?
Dear oh hear, Auntie Flo. It's only one bye-election. Don't panic!
so weak, auntie flo
At least Cameron can afford to lose that deposit, Osborne just needs to hang out at a few more parties.
hang on a minute, Flo. i know you're only trying to help but I think me and George are gonna win the 'biggest toff' challenge. Probably best to leave it...
some delightful anti-Scots comments over on Guido. What a pleasant bunch you tories are.
Cameron's f**cked. Osborne's f**cked. We're all f**cked.
QUOTE:
But the Conservatives have got to raise their game and Cameron is proving that the game is to big for him. END QUOTE
Well said Strappy.
Does anyone think Cameron can come up with one great idea, a radical idea, a reforming idea, something original, in time for the General Election?
Oh dear. The first time I saw "WebCameron" I realised he was all fur coat and no knickers. He has had everything in his life handed to him on a silver salver, including the worst Government in History and he's rubbish.
Crikey, at least in Scotland we will have more SNP seats at the next election, never minding Glenrothes, but down South...is there any hope for you? Will anybody deliver you from this mendacious cyclops?
(WV: evall)
I've had an idea, Dave. Why don't you black up and do a speech like Obama? George had a go last night and we all thought it was hilarious.
BD said:
"I think me and George are gonna win the 'biggest toff' challenge."
Nah, you're just working class aristos, you know, the sort that working people have always identified with, good blokes running hard working SME's, a bit like Robin Hood.
Whereas Gordo, he's a tycoon and has millions of OPM - other people's money - stashed away that he is not about to give away to the poor. Real work is anthema to Brown, which is why he's never done any.
Flo, are you feeling OK? Dave and Gideon are 'good blokes' that working people identify with? And a 'bit like Robin Hood'? You really are rattled.
Chris Paul's comments may be unwelcome here, but the guy does have a point. The Tory front bench should be jazzed up. Osbourne should be canned. If I had my way, Cameron too, but that's politically impossible at this stage of the electoral cycle. Ideally, I'd have Boris in his job. William Hague as Shadow Chancellor, David Davis back in his old role. Liam Fox doing something useful and not wasted in Defence. Sean Bailey (Hammersmith PPC) could be on the airwaves talking about crime and punishment. Tories are a non starter in Scotland and they could be squeezed by UKIP in England. Nigel Farage was very impressive yesterday on QT.
Ed Balls said...
"so weak, auntie flo"
So rich, Ed Balls. Filthy rich, just like Gordo. But let's face it, all of you nulab politicos are grabbing every taxpayer penny you can from the poor.
When are you and the poisoned dwarf going to stop scrounging double mortgage expenses from hard working people? We're in a recession, you should be ashamed.
Hang on a minute, Flo, I don't think it was really Ed Balls who posted that comment...
Calm down, Auntie Flo. I don't think it's *really* Ed Balls, you know.....
Seen on Twitter updates:
"I'm told my blog was just praised by Tony McNulty on the Daily Politics. Anyone hear it?"
Is this subtle self-parody? Or is Iain a vain twat?
Have you finished your dinner? Clarke's one of those gluttonous men whose turds are bigger than porn stars' cocks. Makes him very jealous when he lifts his belly and looks between his own legs.
Aunty Flo, your comments on Gordo are misplaced. His background doesn't matter. You can wish to help the poor (and I believe he's genuine in this just misguided as all socialists are) and still come from rich stock. And if you think a privileged background is a disadvantage, then let's say goodbye to the entire Tory front bench. Voters don't care if you were born with a silver spoon or plastic spoon in your mouth. It's your plans for the country that matter. Right now, much as I love Cameron, he's a man with NO plan, and if this carries on the best the Tories can hope for is a hung parliament (which come to think of it would be the best option for us all).
p.s. word verification = layingly
Anonymous said...
"Hang on a minute, Flo, I don't think it was really Ed Balls who posted that comment..."
Of course, it was really Mandelson's gofer. I'm waiting for Balls' camp to hit back at Mandelson. Then the sparks'll fly.
HA HA HA HA HA!!
You lost miserably and Labour stormed it. Hilarious.
I have nothing against the Tory party, but you lot have been so unpleasant, hypocritical and vitriolic of late this amusing me greatly.
Why oh why oh WHY are the Conservatives wasting time, effort and money on the Scotch EU Region when its so painfully OBVIOUS to anybody with sense that nothing except a tiny minority of Scotch people will NEVER vote for them because they see them as an "English Party".
It's not like MP's elected in so called "UK" elections in the Scotch Region have ANY SAY WHATSOEVER on matters in the Scotch Region! - they only have a say on ENGLISH affairs as the "UK" Parliament (Scottish Parliament South) rules virtually 'only' England!.
Basically the Scotch are electing McLabour MP's to keep ruling England via the laughably titled "UK" Parliament for their own benefit and to keep the English subsidy streaming up North, while at the same time they have their own Scotch Government and Parliament (EU Regional Assembly).
This is exactly the Scenario with Broon! - as illustrated below in Laymens terms.
http://img1.abload.de/img/broonland33mn.jpg
Bible Basher said:
"Gordo...His background doesn't matter. You can wish to help the poor (and I believe he's genuine in this just misguided as all socialists are) and still come from rich stock."
You're right, BB, is that why Gordo and Sarah are so into charity....?
Gordo and Sarah's Granny School charity project, now let me see, where is that.....ooh, Fife.
Play Away, where's that charity project of Sarah and Gordo's....ooh, Fife.
Complementary Care Therapies, where's that charity project of Gordo and Sarah's....oooh, Fife.
Then, of course, Gordo spent millions on England's poor cancer suffers....woops, correction.
Gordo stole millions from
England's NHS, denied treatment to England's treatable cancer patients, often the poorest, leaving them to die in order to syphon off England's taxpayers' money to buy votes in Scotland.
How could you be so unbelievable wicked to England's poorest cancer sufferers, Gordo?
Flo - you are clearly deranged. Please stop posting because this is becoming embarrassing.
Oh, and Gordo and Sarah's laudable 'Jennifer Brown Trust Fund'. now let me see where's that's based.....oooh, Fife.
This is becoming rather repetitive, Gordo.
Doing loads of charity work in his home town? What an evil greedy motherfucker. Keep up the good work, Flo, we've got to flush out this socialist do-gooders before it's too late and the country goes down the pan.
Is it me or is getting hot in here?
What a bastard, setting up all those charities.
Yes, BD, what a b*st*rd. Gorgon set up all of those charities in Fife and used them to buy votes while stealing money from and denying treatment to the sick people of England.
It's only an election. If the SNP couldn't put their case more effectively than the other parties then they got the result they deserve.
Personally I was disappointed the SNP didn't win, but it was the people of Glenrothes voting, not me, and they were voting on which candidate would suit them the best.
The party that really got shafted though was not the SNP but the Lib-dems. Clamity Clegg strikes again.
Cameron needs to up the anti - replacing Osbourne with Clarke would help; also getting David Davis in the team again would be a big help, as he is the only one to show some principled guts.
Clarke? No, no, no, NO!
We've done too much cow towing to the EU, we don't need a Europhile chancellor. Anyway, I like Osborne.
Wrinkled weasel:
the SNP has operated as a true socialist, party of the people,
My arse they did. After initial humility Salmond has started dissing Labour for fighting hard and including local issues. AS will be a Tory in Perth and a Red in Fife. As bad as the Lib Dems in that regard. Not remotely socialist.
As for the gratuitous insults? Keep them coming. Nothing else to say. As some of your own people realise Cameron and Osborne are uber wealthy lightweights. And they could never be the change people want.
‘I am delighted that Gareth & The Co-operative Party have agreed to help me with the charity fundraising for a new medical research initiative that will contribute to safer pregnancies and the delivery of healthy newborn babies otherwise at risk' (Sarah Brown)
And where is that new research facility? Ooh: Fife.
Co-operative Party funding: isn't that as good as Labour party funding of vote buying projects in Brown's constituency?
Auntie flo' @2:52pm
You may like George, but is he upto the job? Clarke may be too EUphile but he can stand his ground against Brown. Would you prefer Brown to win at the next election? - surely not.
Chris Paul
As some of your own people realise Brown and Darling are uber wealthy lightweights. And they could never be the change people want.
idiid,
YOu needt o make a stronger case than that...
auntie flo' @ 3:07 pm
I have heard Osbourne - that is enough.
"The proof of the pudding is in the eating" you might say. Well Osbourne is not in power so perhaps we don't know what he would be like. However, the appearance of the pudding (that is, what he has said - and how he has said it) seems lightweight to me. This is unlike D. Davis, who is a far more solid character.
Chris Paul:
"gratuitous insults"...eh?
Ah, that's your euphemisim for questions, issues and points raised that you refuse to address - because you can't.
You aren't Gorgon in disguise, are you? Only you never answer a question or address and issue raised
Sorry, I meant:
Chris Paul said:
"gratuitous insults"
...eh?
Ah, that's your euphemisim for questions, issues and points raised that you refuse to address - because you can't.
God alive, auntie Flo! Leave 'im, he's not worth it. You're making yourself look foolish.
Flo, I'm concerned about you. Osborne is a joke and manifestly not up to his job. Surely in your heart of hearts you know that's so?
A few quick points, Flo:
1. Osborne's a lightweight.
2. Cameron started well but is beginning to flounder.
3. Questions of wealth and privilege are enormous red herrings, whoever they are applied to.
4. It is never worth bothering to 'debate' with Chris Paul as he's an arse.
Good day to you.
Anyone seen my cock?
Auntie Flo, the point is you look at Osborne and Cameron and just instantly think "toff". The fact you are getting your granny panties in all kinds of knots to trying and prove Brown is a toff proves the very fact that he's not.
One third of the population of Glenrothes on benefits, one third of the population of Glenrothes actually working for the Labour government
I’ll say it again:
"The difference between a Welfare State and a Totalitarian State is a matter of time"
source
Oh dear trolls trolls trolls and more trolls.
Toffs .... ? Shaun Woodward ... now THERE'S a toff.
or Lord Sainsbury.
Lakshmi Mittal anybody?? Loadsamoney walks in all the right circles - but thats OK he gives it to Labour (I wonder why? best ask a Romanian.) ... and he's an Indian toff.
And the anti Cameron Osborne trolling is all too obvious you need to be much more subtle.
The cut in interest rates is just what Osborne and Cameron et al have been asking for.
But essentially its pointless to complain that there is no magic plan coming from the Tories because there is no easy way out of this mess.
The IMF point out we are badly placed to face the recession which again is what Tories have been saying. The massive increase in unemployment we are going through ought to illustrate the point.
What use is 'experience' when it never saw this mess coming and actually made it worse with their debt/ credit bubble. Clueless darling sat in the Treasury fiddling whilst Rome was burning right under his nose. Brown stoked the fires for 10 years. Don't make me laugh you Dopey Dolly Trolleys
Chris Paul: "Cameron and Osborne are uber wealthy lightweights. And they could never be the change people want."
Oh, so you admit that God might not be in his heaven and all might not be well in the workers' paradise? That must be some kind of a first.
I am reminded of the Glasgow Garscadden by-election of 1978, which showed a swing of less than 4% for the SNP. Indeed, this could be 1978-9 in Scotland all over again, with the prospect of a change of government severely squeezing the smaller parties by the time of the general election. Of course, we know who won the 1979general election.
From a Tory point of view, notwithstanding that I support the Union, I am rather disappointed with the size of Labour’s majority and that our vote was squeezed (though the latter is perhaps to be expected). At least we beat the LibDems.
There's clearly a lack of psephological knowledge in some of the above posts. The Conservatives had about much chance of winning Glenrothes as George Galloway has of becoming the King of Spain. It's the SNP that has had a bad day today.
Remember that Callaghan would have been boosted by that Glasgow Garscadden result in 1978, only to lose the general election the following year...
The Berwick and East Lothian by-election of 1978 showed a swing from Conservative to Labour - that must have been worrying for Margaret Thatcher who was still Leader of the Opposition at the time, little knowing that she would about to become PM for 11 years.
osbourne must go
he is costing us
didnt a speaker at Conservative Party conference say the next election was in the bag ???
Never Never take the electorate for granteed
Where now for Alex Salmond (and could the SNP possibly survive without him, as it will have to do eventually)?
Why is Jim Sillars suddenly all over the place?
What of David Cameron, who has presupposed large SNP gains, thus delivering a hung Parliament with the Tories as the largest party, so that the cosy Holyrood deal can be done in reverse?
What of Tommy Sheridan, his very name on the ballot paper, and fully 97 votes (behind UKIP, the Senior Citizens' Unity Party, everyone) cast for the candidate thus designated, right there in the last constituency ever to return a Communist MP?
And what of the "viewers in Scotland", for whom Glenrothes this, Glenrothes that, Glenrothes the other, would have been the "except" if there had been the entirely separate Scottish news bulletins advocated by the SNP? "Barack Obama, except for viewers in Scotland."
But there is now no question whatever over one Leader.
Gordon Brown.
The more this "Osborne must go" tripe continues the more I believe he should stay and be the one to lead the way out of the unbelievable mess this bunch of worthless, chip on the shoulder Dollie Draper trolling rubbish hjave got The Country into.
I also note there are many more of them here than on Guido's blog. Wonder why?
There was once an unfenced hill where a flock of sheep roamed happily.
One rainy day, Gordon Brown came to talk to them. "It's cold and wet here. How can you stand it?" he asked.
"It's not so bad," said the sheep. " We get up when we like, there's plenty to eat, and life is pretty good most of the time. It's raining now but we can just go under the trees if it gets too much. It will stop eventually. We have our freedom, and to us, that's the most important thing in the World."
"It looks awful," Gordon said. "And how do you know it will stop raining? It might go on for weeks. Your land might become swampy and all of your grass might be washed away. I'll Tell you what, there is a big building over there. It's warm and dry inside. I will open it up to let you in. It's only fair. You deserve better than this."
"Is there grass to eat?" the sheep asked.
"No, but the building will provide hay. I will ensure it provides for you, a place to sleep and food to eat, and you need do nothing to earn it. You'll be warm and dry and, more importantly you'll still be free. Really, it's best to take my offer just in case it should continue raining, don't you think? Surely you can see it's for your benefit?"
Some of the sheep were suspicious. "What do you get out of it?"
"Me? - Nothing." Gordon smiled. "And once in a while, I'll invite the most special of you, to come and live in a special flock where life will be more wonderful than you have ever known. Of course, you won't all be able to join that flock at once, but I promise, every one of you will pass through the Golden Doorway eventually."
The sheep considered. A few distrusted Gordon, and refused to go with him, but most accepted his kind offer. They laughed and scoffed at those who chose to stay in the rain while they filed obediently into New Labours dry and warm abbatoir.
Good points on the 1979 election. I watched the real-time coverage a while back on the BBC and was amazed to see the swing to maggie start strong in the south, fade by the north west and swing back to Labour in Scotland.
Remember to apply this to hung parliament projections - swings are not uniform.
Same again, I feel. Middle Britain's had enough and the Iceland disaster has stuffed the flirtation with SNP nationalism.
It's not DC who has no policies although I am sure he would like to kick boy George all the way to Corfu. It's Gordy who quite blithely changes his policies as the tide ebbs and flows. A conservative who suggests that tax cuts are what the country wants and needs is a destroyer of the health service. A Nu Liebourite who proposes the same is a serious politician reacting to world events. Pathetic. I wish DC had been much tougher on spelling out the unequivocal message that the way forward is, less government, less waste and less tax. Let people plot their future. Individuals are much more likely to make informed spending decisions than the unaccountable hand of government. It's time to cut the crap of "sharing the proceeds of growth". We want a simple message that Brown has failed and that DC is going to get the government off our backs and out off our pockets. Come on Iain. DC has to up his game.
My friend who is a member of SNP says that the SNP made three major mistakes. First, the selection of a local councillor who had some baggage and not recognising that it would be attacked. SNP followed the Glasgow example here but Glenrothes is not Glasgow. But Glenrothes is a tribal Labour territory. Even if Brown was arrested for breaking into a bank, the 'red necks' of Glenrothes, they are plenty of them there, would still have voted for Labour. Second, Salmond as he is admitting now should have done house to house visits to repudiate scare mongering and lies of Labour. Third, Salmond the wily convasser that he is forgot that for most in Glenrothes live in council houses, benefit recipients etc.. the credit crunch and HBOS are non issues for these handout seekers. They do not know about economics, hardly can spell the word. The rest there is a lot of them are like Brown socialists and work in govt supported agencies, institutions etc.. and do not care about HBOS and Credit crunch issues. SNP hence looked as out of place as a white aspiring senator in Harlem asking for votes.
Brown as usual exaggerates about his economic competence just as he did about his friendship with Obama. It turns out according to NYTIMES, Obama spoke with Sarkozy, Merkel, Olmert and six other leaders including Brown. Hardly exclusive with Brown, the ego-centric
"The more this "Osborne must go" tripe continues the more I believe he should stay..."
My thoughts exactly.
The socialist bully boys and their sponging friends certainly don't like Dear George do they?
I wonder why he scares them so?
Still, it must ease the pain of their unexpected and embarrassing win for the Laboor Trolls to make the story about something else.
john pickworth
To claim that Labour must be 'scared' of Osborne is stretching credulity a little! Plenty of Tories think he's useless too. The reasons he's attracting so much flak are: 1) the big issue of the day concerns his portfolio, 2) he's performing so poorly he's an obvious target for opponents.
George Osborne and David Cameron have failed to nail down their narrative around real responsibility for the mess we are in. They have neither the incisiveness nor the vision needed to present a convincing narrative. Cameron's performances lack depth and Osborne's lack substance. Unless and until they get rid of Osborne, at the least, the party is doomed to defeat in the next election.
John Pickworth said...
"The more this "Osborne must go" tripe continues the more I believe he should stay..."
"My thoughts exactly.
"The socialist bully boys and their sponging friends certainly don't like Dear George do they?
I wonder why he scares them so?"
Osborne scares them because they failed to smear him and break him - and with him, Cameron and the Conservatives.
Mandelson is up to his old divide and rule tricks again.
He tried to smear George O and to use him as a smokescreen, now he's trying to transform him into a divisive figure in the Conservative party.
That's why all of these nulab trolls are here, claiming to be Conservatives who want Osborne out.
On George Osborne:
The reasons he's attracting so much flak are: 1) the big issue of the day concerns his portfolio, 2) he's performing so poorly he's an obvious target for opponents.
Actually...
1) The big issue of the day isn't about a political office as such, its about the real economy. And that's squarely the domain of the current and former Chancellors. It matters not whether you believe Osborne to be a genius or a light-weight. The real damage is being caused by those pulling the levers; something which seriously affects EVERYONE, whatever party they support.
2) I would have thought the obvious targets are those that are directly threatening your income, home, employment, pension, savings, health, security and liberty?
George Osborne was bang on the money for months about the economy. Shame more people (Tories included) didn't stop to listen to him. Worse still they then reach for a machete the moment Labour's black-ops unit is so obviously out hunting for an opposition scalp.
Meanwhile, back in the real world:
An impotent Chancellor is left unmolested by criticism while he fiddles the books and shakes the petty cash tin. His Boss, having directly caused the crisis, doesn't stop to help out the victims but instead endlessly jets off around the world in a pathetic and transparent attempt to export the blame.
Make no mistake, this country is in serious deep trouble. Every independent expert can see it, so does the IMF, the EU and also Osborne too.
I read what others say about Osbourne - however I cannot accept that he is the best the Tories can do for the shadow Chancellor. There is something about the man which indicates 'lite'.
And I am not a Labour Troll.
Chris Paul,
As a tribal Labourite you can't get do you? Glenrothes is Old Labour just like Brown and the population lives on social security. We can see why Brown is bloatin g this budget. The swing to SNP is 5% and a further 1% swing would make this seat Marginal as well as bottler Brown's seat. With so many benefit seekers living off the state like the Scottish Labour MPs, even Archangel had no chance there.
The NewZeland PM is compared to Red Dawn Primarollo and likes Old Labourite Brown. I heard from my Aussie friends that Rudd's shine is coming off.
Obama is not bottler Brown socialist. Democrats are not like Old or New Labour but more like one nation Tories.
Bottler Brown gave the impression that he had a 10 min talk with Obama as though it was an exclusive talk. The NYTimes reports that Obama talked to 9 leaders on that day including Merkel, Sarkozy. Olmert and 6 others which includes your leader. Nothing exclusive is it? Brown has to be careful with the 'Rahmbo' the Obama White House Chief of Staff. In Monika Lewinky's time when Blair visited the White House 'Rahmbo' said to him 'Clinton is overcoming this problem, don't f**k up!'
Iraq-tanitned Blair and Brown, no wonder Obama talks to Merkel and Sarkozy. Sarah Brown's photo opportunity with barracuda Palin is such hypocrisy! Why can't to say it?
I think everyone should vote Labour at the next By-Election to fool Brown into calling an early General Election.
Osborne knows what needs to be done - the Tories need to get their message across better and this will happen in a General Election.
I know people that voted Labour at the last election and are now denying it, they are emabarrased that they were fooled.
The really worrying thing is I think Brown still believes he was a great Chancellor.
The sooner the General Election the better.
This result may bring that day forward.
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