It's a lovely sunny day and looking out over the racecourse and the rolling countryside I can see why people love Yorkshire so much.
Sayeeda Warsi is about to kick the conference off. She's becoming an increasingly impressive speaker and media performer. She's not afraid to call a spade a spade and isn't afraid to make a mistake. That might sound an odd thing to say but too often our politicians play safe for fear of upsetting anyone. Those who do that cannot hope to make any sort of real difference to the lives of the people they represent. I get so sick of politicians who think blogging is a risky business. They are the same sort of people who will go on TV, spout a party line and then wonder why no one listens. Sayeeda is a different breed of politician. She may cause spin doctors to wince from time to time but the public listen.
I thank those in the open thread who were berating me for driving rather than taking the train. I thought we still believed individual choice. I use the train most days to get into London. On a weekend I love driving my car. I get pleasure out of it and no one, least of all anonymous blog commenters, is going to make me feel guilty about it.
Over lunch someone asked me how much the Party pays me for speaking at this kind of event. I wish! They were astonished that not only do I not charge a fee, I also don't charge expenses. Frankly, it would never occur to me. I don't get a lot of time to do much campaigning at the moment so I view this sort of event as something I can contribute to the Party.
Mind you, if things had turned out a little differently in September 2003 I might have been here in a different capacity. The night before I was selected for North Norfolk I was in the final for Beverley in East Yorkshire, which Graeme Stuart won. But I'm not bitter. At all!
82 comments:
Pretty unconvincing defence of your gas-guzzler usage, Iain! I find it grotesque that you are going to do a 10-hour round trip in your Lexus or whatever it is when you could quite easily have taken public transport. Typical selfish Tory.
Is Sayeeda the woman who was on Question Time recently with Fattersley? If so, you are startlingly wrong about her. She was buttock-clenchingly awful.
oh yes you are bitter said...
Pretty unconvincing defence of your gas-guzzler usage, Iain! I find it grotesque that you are going to do a 10-hour round trip in your Lexus or whatever it is when you could quite easily have taken public transport. Typical selfish Tory.
November 07, 2008 3:29 PM
Yeah, at about 10 times the cost of a car and no guarantee of a seat or that the bloody train will turn up. And since Iain says he's not claiming expenses, he's gone for the cheapest option.
Typical selfish idiotic socialist!!
3.29 I couldn't really give a toss what you think actually. And I wouldn't be seen dead in a Lexus.
Exactly my point, Iain. You really don't give a toss about others.
Oh, and Arkangel, you are factually wrong as well as politically so. Buy a ticket in advance and not only are prices very cheap but you can also book a seat. Train cancellations do indeed happen sometimes but so do motorway pile-ups. It's called life. Get away from your computer and go and find out.
How shallow to feel so strongly about a Lexus? If it was good enough for Alan Partridge...
Yes Iain, global warming IS totally and utterly down to you and your Audi.
And of course no-one is going to criticise the BBC flying over a huge number of meeja stars and their entourages to the USA for the election, because they use magic carpets and therefore cause no CO2 emissions.
Just as do James Brown and nice little Mr Milliblob on their pointless excursions to Africa and the Middle East.
Sorry, I forgot it was an Audi! No offence, Mr Dale, I know these things are important to you.
Judith
I wasn't claiming global warming was entirely Iain's fault - that would be crass and moronic, a bit like your comment.
It's good to see someone is out there spreading the tory word.
"WHERE THE HELL IS CAMERON ETC...
.....NOT A WORD FROM THEM IN WHAT SEEMS LIKE AGES!
HAVE THEY ALL GONE OFF FOR THE XMAS BREAK!"
Iain, do you ever go to these engagements and wonder why you bothered? Seems like a hell of a long way to go to preach to the converted. Surely you've got something better to do, like polish your Lexus - sorry, Audi.
Iain,
They don't want you. Just leave it.
So she calls a spade a spade, does she. Better make sure Dave doesn't let her near Obama then.
anon @ 3.53pm
Go back home to Guido where you belong
@ oh yes you are bitter, re train costs. Yes they can be cheap in the same way that Ryanair is cheap for the tiny percentage of people who manage to get one of their £1 tickets. Plus who wants to be restricted to a particular train? means lots to time hanging around or stressing about missing it.
Plus, Tunbridge Wells - London Bridge - Kings X - Leeds - Wetherby - not exactly a stress free, point to point journey by rail anyway. I used to travel up from London to Leeds lots in the days when LUFC was a football team but that made sense, you could be pretty sure which trains you would need for a start. And that's exactly the point, it does need to be all about personal choice because sometimes public transport is a viable, affordable option and others it isn't. No amount of invective will change that.
Cath
Unlike Iain and Arkangel, you make some fair points. I guess I commented because Iain always seems to drive whenever he mentions he's going anywhere. That's all.
Sayeeda Warsi is a right wing extremist - as bad as Sarah Palin. David Cameron should be warned that Warsi will be a huge liability to his 'modern' Tory Party in the next general election.
Her views on sex education are ignorant and embarrassing. She's a homophobe - and I wish she would tone down her shrill and aggressive manner. Warsi is a huge turn off and she's so out of touch with modern politics.
If Cameron wants swing voters to turn towards the Tories then he should ditch her asap.
I Gotta say that I echo Anon 3.32pm
Sayeeda Warsi made Lord Hattersley look unbiased(which I have to say is some achievement) she was absolutely dreadful on QT the other week, butting in and not allowing anybody else to make their point of view and as a result certainly did herself no good nor the Conservative cause for any undecided voters watching -she needs to listen and not be so strident and abrasive
oh yes you are bitter
How about that it is none of your damn business how Iain gets anywhere - you typical twisted little trot.
oh yes you are bitter said...
Exactly my point, Iain. You really don't give a toss about others.
Oh, and Arkangel, you are factually wrong as well as politically so. Buy a ticket in advance and not only are prices very cheap but you can also book a seat. Train cancellations do indeed happen sometimes but so do motorway pile-ups. It's called life. Get away from your computer and go and find out.
I've long since ceased to argue with idiots. It's entirely non-productive.
Canvas
How come you're still not bathing in the afterglow after the giant orgasmathon-oops I mean US election?
Lady Finch, I'm thrilled for America and thrilled for the world.
America did the right thing. They rejected the politics of fear and hate - they chose hope and change. Thanks for asking.
I have rather liked oh yes you are bitter's comments. It makes a change from people who complain about the BBC or use the term, NuLab, which is always a shortcut way of telling me to ignore and move on to the next comment.
P.S. If people want to travel in their cars then that's good as it leaves more space for me on the train.
oh yes you are bitter... if you are going to throw the charge of "climate criminal" at anyone then use it against people who own a digital picture frame. They really are evil.
Canvas
Are you American? If not, we really don't need the lecture. Believe me, nobody in American gives a toss what anyone over here thinks - rather like Millwall - everybody hates us and we don't care.
Finch - Yes, I am an American woman - and times have changed. Embrace or get left behind.
;)
Oh so that's the reason for the not quite dry knickers! You long to embrace Obama!
Quite honestly I refuse to get involved in the orgaistic circle jerk - he is not the new messiah amd if you all continue to think so you will be bitterly disappointed. I am also sick and tired of being told I'm racist, behind the times, etc because I don't want to participate in cluster f..ks.
finch - never complain, never explain... Your problem , not mine.
tata!
Canvas - touchy, touchy! One would have thought you would be more magnanimous after the Messiah's victory. He's not the messiah you know, just a naughty, naughty boy!
Yes, Arkangel, I am an idiot. And you are a genius.
Thank you for not debating with me as I'm in danger of being humiliated by your towering intellect.
Lady Finchley
No it isn't any of my business, really. But when Iain blogs about stuff, I assume he's inviting comment, discussion etc. Otherwise he'd keep it to himself. Mind you, as Arkangel rightly points out, I am an idiot.
Oh yes you are bitter aka idiot
You said it babe - not me.
He is inviting politcal comment - not your Wolfie Smith class war musings.
Iaian, don't you diss my Lexus. It's a hybrid, too, 'cos I'm soooo green.
Lady Finchley
So talking about environmental issues and transport is 'Wolfie Smith class war musings'? Tell that to Dave.
Right.. I'm off to start up my Bentley and just leave the engine running.One maybe two hours..
Not going anywhere... Just want to make "oh yes you are bitter" squirm.
Might run a tap too. Maybe keep it running while I brush my teeth..then later I might put some silver foil in the paper recycling bin, turn the heater on, use more than two sheets of toilet paper..
Maybe i will throw some perfectly good milk away, as its passed its sell by date. I think I will go to the supermarket too..and not take a bag for life!
Why I might even let off some planet destroying Catherine Wheels tomorrow..give the kids some sparklers and we can all stand around the bonfire and weep for the melting ice caps and contemplate these terrible terrible crimes..
Lady Finchley
Forgot to add that you're racist and behind the times.
See ya.
Lord Asda
I must admit you made me smile! Especially the bit about throwing perfectly good milk away. Nice to have some irony and sarcasm thrown my way rather than boneheaded insults.
Warsi is, I am afraid, morally crippled on many issues due to her faith, and dissembles in particular on Hamas and Kashmir. She may be OK, if somewhat naive, on many domestic issues, but when Muslims are involved, she reverts to type. Sorry, Iain, but she is not on our side (i.e. the West, not conservatism).
Don't you just long for a Yorkshireman in the Treasury?
Just to point out that Wetherby doesn't have a train station so it is abit of a moot point.
It would be a 13 mile taxi journey or 40 minutes on the bus from Leeds railway station.
I do not agree with Baroness Warsi on all issues, although I am of the view that she represents a breath of fresh air in our often staid political establishment with its scores of identikit baked-bean-tin politicians.
There are many so mired in their own prejudices, preconceptions and stereotypes that they miss issues that would be obvious to almost anyone else, for example, that individuals with a little bit of money and/or education cannot possibly be victims of certain types of crime.
There are some who genuinely are unable to see what is right under their noses. Others see, but appear to choose to be deliberately provocative for reasons best known to themselves.
With regard to the latter, we underestimate their capacity for epic hypocrisy at our peril.
THE FUTURE:Adios Gordy
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0U4jtKUQ5E
shame about Beverley Iain. It has to be one of England's best kept secrets. A gem of a place.
shame about Beverley Iain. It has to be one of England's best kept secrets. A gem of a place.
Yesterday I drove from Blackpool to Southampton... and back again. I also spent a delightful one and half hours marvelling at Birmingham's road cone museum on the M6. Night time viewings also include a free detour and u-turn down the M5.
A very enjoyable drive... and yet highly criminal judging from what some of the Protectors of the Holy Carbon have said here. Off now to check the BBC to see if I've single-handedly submerged the Maldives... although if Holland goes, that's down to Iain.
Sayeeda is someone who the Conservative party should fear as she isn’t all she makes out to be. She has been one of the only Conservatives that I know of that have had support in their general election campaign from a member of the Labour party and Peer Lord Nazir.
Not to be critical but I think Lord Ahmed and her have got some under the cover business as it is showing otherwise why wouldn’t the Lord not support Shahid Malik who got elected and is a member of his party.
Iain, to think you could have been my MP. I would have voted for you.
There is nothing like driving a Q7, Iain. Tell them all to fuck off, and buy the new Q7 V12 (500bhp) for good measure...
Absolutley fantatic to see you at the Conference Iain. I am a Big fan of your blog spot.
Now, Wetherby is my home town so I can affirm that there is no train station.
It is very conveniently located by the A1, so Ian made a right choice in driving there.
Now, I am currently in New Zealand and am considering returning 'home' for family reasons.
Is this the level of political debate I will have to put up with?
Nannying socialist Greens bleating about people using their cars and telling people what to do.
We have the same Greens here in New Zealand, with an activist, socialist agenda that has little to do with the environment.
It is about banning things and telling people what and what not to do.
Anyway, we look set to be dumping Nanny, slaying the socialist dragon Helen Clark in our General Election today.
Alas our proportional representation system means the Greens may get 10% of the vote and a dozen or so MPs.
But Liarbour in New Zealand is hopefully finished today after 9 years in power and the country can get back on the right track.
I fear what has happened to Britain in my ten year absence.
I only hope Dave Cameron can change the agenda for Britain and the attitudes of so many people.
I am not returnign to a socialist hellhole am I?
As we're going off topic I have to say that after listening to Obama's speech tonight I had to go and check that he really was a Democrat. With a rabid Jewish hawk as his Chief of Staff it looks like no change in DC. Meanwhile back to Baroness Porky Warsi as she is affectionally known in certain circles - and I think we all know why ... If it squeels like a pig etc
Rex November 07, 2008 3:45 PM.
he is hiding...he always hides when the crunch is on.
And you support him... He has no back bone..not a single bone. Over the next 18 months rex you are going to see just how bad this guy really is.
He hasnt changed the Tories, that is a myth. They are just hoping he wins, and if he did all the nutters will emerge from the side lines and take over...you have been warned
While Warsi is probably more in touch with what I would consider your average British citizen, she has been unashamedly parachuted in as Cameron's token leading Muslim (a woman as well) and is the epitomy of Blue Labour; some nice style, but very little subtance.
canvas said "If Cameron wants swing voters to turn towards the Tories then he should ditch her asap."
Concentrate on the swing voters too much and you will lose the traditional vote.
I remember listening to Ms Warsi and was pleasantly surprise by her way of speaking; I cannot remember anything but platitudes and sound bites from Dave..... where is he now by the way? he used to lead the opposition didn't he ?
anonymous 11.21pm your remarks are an absolute disgrace. No wonder you are anonymous.
Anti women anti muslim/jew. I hope you suffer for such a filthy mind.
To Fairfacts Media..stay in New Zealand!. You rightly identify the major problem this country now has. The ultimate nanny state.
This government has just published a guide on looking after pets! Yes thats right Pets.
Did you know, for instance, if you feed your dog too much and do not exercise it it will get FAT!
We have the leader of the Tory Party seemingly afraid to tell us just what he will do when in power!
Afraid of reigning in the left wing and out of control BBC. Forgetting that people will be drawn to someone with a radical agenda!
He is surrounded by Toffs and the silver spoon brigade. The ones who have always believed it is their destiny to lead the country!
I think he believes he will just walk into Number 10! Misses the point that we are being brainwashed by Brown with his constant soundbites promising to look after all of us.
I cannot abide Brown and his incompetent government. BUT I have to admit he is playing a blinder and is running rings around Call me Dave and his side kick Boy george.
Cameron will not sack his 'friends' even though they have brought great discredit on the Party. He ignores the thousands of ordinary people who support the Tories who are appalled by the behaviour of his Chairman and Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer. If he does not act to rid himself of these people (and there are more) he can expect defeat at the next election.
I a life long Tory voter will not support Cameron unless he shows he has some qualities of a leader!
I do wish you well. If you decide to come back prepare to be disgusted.
'I thank those in the open thread who were berating me for driving rather than taking the train. I thought we still believed individual choice. I use the train most days to get into London. On a weekend I love driving my car. I get pleasure out of it and no one, least of all anonymous blog commenters, is going to make me feel guilty about it.'
100% with you Iain.
As a 'petrol head' I enjoy driving my car, also mainly at the weekend as it happens to and from the supermarket, and walk to work in the week.
I cant fault you ...
Iain,
I agree with your decision to drive. Travelling by train is expensive - and unless the place you are going to has a station - requires a taxi at the other end.
It alright talking about cheap fares, if you know weeks in advance, but those fares are more-likely a face-saver for the railway companies against accusations of exhorbitant prices.
With the price of petrol falling I have been impressed by the numbers of folk who are 'exercising' (as in dogs) their cars compared to a few weeks ago. I knew I should have bought that 10 year old stylish Bentley...
Damn. I wish I went now.
There are regular bus services between Leeds and Wetherby, by the way.
I'll get my coat.
Haddock says: "Concentrate on the swing voters too much and you will lose the traditional vote."
Is that the advice you gave to John McCain?
Look, Cameron needs the support of the majority of this country to win. He won't do that with a right wing Conservative agenda. Times have changed. There is no such thing as small government anymore.
Cameron needs to demonstrate that he is fighting for everyone in this country - not just the privileged few. He must do that from the centre or the centre left. Or he will lose - and he will lose BIG.
And right wing extremists like Sayeeda Warsi only dilute DC's message and make his battle even more difficult than it already is.
canvas, "Is that the advice you gave to John McCain?"
Why, in the name of all that is holy, would I give advice to an American politician?... and why would he listen even if I did give it?
Seeing as you 'look' me, why not look at the tumbling of any lead the conservatives had... Look for opposition, look for a party leader who is a conservative.
If every party huddles in the middle ground we may as well not bother voting.... or perhaps vote LibDem for a laugh.
Haddock says, "why not look at the tumbling of any lead the conservatives had"
Do you think that this 'lead' disappeared because George Osborne reminded everyone that perhaps the 'modern' Tory Party hasn't really changed at all? Same old stuff?
Better the devil you know and all that ...?
If you want to vote for a conservative right wing party then you can always vote for UKIP.
I wouldn't be surprised if the LibDems picked up lots of protest votes in the next election - especially if DC doesn't have a radical shake up and prove to us the Tories have indeed changed their wicked ways.
Canvas said:
"And right wing extremists like Sayeeda Warsi only dilute DC's message and make his battle even more difficult than it already is."
Anonymous said:
"Sayeeda Warsi made Lord Hattersley look unbiased(which I have to say is some achievement) she was absolutely dreadful on QT the other week, butting in and not allowing anybody else to make their point of view"
Canvas, I can only assess Lady Warsi's views on the basis of what I've heard her actually say on TV which don't make her particularly right wing. I'm not familiar with her written contributions. And then she isn't on TV very much. Try to be a bit more specific. You personally may distrust people who adhere to religions on the grounds that because they believe things you don't they must all be nutty and dangerous. But that's not a point of view you are entitled to force on the rest of us who may well believe nothing in particular but are quite capable of distinguishing between believers who are fanatics and those who are not.
I think Anonymous was basing his/her comment on a performance other than the one broadcast by the BBC. It was Lord Hattersley who was continually speaking out of turn and trying to shout down everyone else, including dear old Bummblebee at times. Warsi seemed a bit subdued by comparison, but I put than down to her being natually better mannered than Lord H. I did even feel at one point that she might be a bit too polite and reasonable to succeed in a world where fulminating old *s (FOFs) seem to get all the attention.
henry rogers, I could care less about a politcian's race, gender or religion.
Warsi is a right wing extremist who does not have the capacity to LISTEN to people.
For example, Mrs Warsi told the press that her view is that sex education should be removed from all schools.
For example, in the past Warsi's campaign literature stated:
"Labour has scrapped Section 28, which was introduced by the Conservatives to stop schools promoting alternative sexual lifestyles such as homosexuality to children as young as seven years old.
"Labour reduced the age of consent for homosexuality from 18 to 16, allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships."
Warsi is truly awful - as awful as Sarah Palin.
canvas said...
Warsi is a right wing extremist who does not have the capacity to LISTEN to people.
For example, Mrs Warsi told the press that her view is that sex education should be removed from all schools.
For example, in the past Warsi's campaign literature stated:
"Labour has scrapped Section 28, which was introduced by the Conservatives to stop schools promoting alternative sexual lifestyles such as homosexuality to children as young as seven years old.
"Labour reduced the age of consent for homosexuality from 18 to 16, allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships."
Well, with great respect to Iain's lifestyle here, there are many people in this country, probably the majority, who happen to agree with what Warsi said.
Please explain why holding those views makes her (or me for that matter) a right wing extremist?
arkangel says "Well, with great respect to Iain's lifestyle here, there are many people in this country, probably the majority, who happen to agree with what Warsi said. "
Arkangel, are you serious?
That's simply not true. Not remotely the case.
Arkangel says> "Please explain why holding those views makes her (or me for that matter) a right wing extremist?"
OK, that makes you intolerant and bigoted. Is that the way of the 'modern' Tory Party? I don't think so. Hope not anyway...
It's up to DC to convince me...
"That's simply not true. Not remotely the case."
any figures to back that up ?
She speaks for a great many people, probably a majority... being 'ethnic' gives her the ability to say so out loud.
canvas said...
Arkangel says> "Please explain why holding those views makes her (or me for that matter) a right wing extremist?"
OK, that makes you intolerant and bigoted. Is that the way of the 'modern' Tory Party? I don't think so. Hope not anyway...
It's up to DC to convince me...
November 08, 2008 5:23 PM
Ah right, I'm not extreme right wing but all of a sudden I've become intolerant and bigoted. How do you know I'm intolerant merely because I don't happen to agree with a 'lifestyle choice'? How does not agreeing with such a choice make me bigoted? Is it merely because you feel that everyone in the world should agree with your way of thinking and those who don't are intolerant bigots?
I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror my friend.
As to the views expressed by Warsi, I would suggest you go and find out some facts before you start castigating people.
What evidence do you have that her views are unsupported? Produce it ...if you can.
Haddock asks: "any figures to back that up ?"
A decade of a Labour government.
Arkangel, if you agree with those 'Warsi views' then you are a right extremist.
Those views are intolerant, narrow minded and bigoted.
Cameron claims the modern Tory Party is now inclusive and forward thinking. If that's the case then DC should ditch Warsi immediately or he is a phony.
edit>
Arkangel, if you agree with those 'Warsi views' then you are a right wing extremist.
canvas said...
Arkangel, if you agree with those 'Warsi views' then you are a right wing extremist.
November 09, 2008 1:39 AM
So, according to you, I should take my grandchildren down to the meat rack in Piccadilly and flaunt them for paedophiles to enjoy their perverted views.
Since you don't know me and have absolutely no idea of my lifestyle, then it's not in order to start throwing insults about.
Or is it that you don't like your socialist paedophile, kiddy-fiddling views being exposed for the abominations that they are. What's sauce for the goose, my friend!!
Now, run along, nursey's waiting with your enema!!
I worked with Sayeeda Warsi on the Cities Task Force looking at regeneration policy.
I recommend those who criticise her for one unfortunate loss of temper on QT to seek out the programme she did on transport linkages being critical to economic and commmunity regeneration. She is greatly respected in her community and amongst the many people not from her community who supported her in 2005.
I am also greatly with Iain on driving to Yorkshire.
I take the M11/A14/A1 route regularly and transport four people for about £60 round trip, usually travelling at times where the rail fare would be more than that for one person. Given that the journey takes about three hours by car and about the same by PT from my part of London. I don't think that is an unreasonable choice.
I do take the train when I travel alone and do not have to make multiple trips when in God's own county and yes, I can book a very cheap off-peak single in advance. Unfortunately, the cost and inconvenience of taking multiple taxis if I do, rather undermines this.
Ideally, Capt Scarlett like, I would have a small garage near Westgate station where my SPV would be parked and waiting for me!
Isn't Sayeeda anti-gay?
Arkangel says "So, according to you, I should take my grandchildren down to the meat rack in Piccadilly and flaunt them for paedophiles to enjoy their perverted views."
That comment sums it up really. Unreasonable, homophobic, intolerant and bigoted...
I rest my case.
Canvas,
You may think you are resting your case but indeed you never even argued one. You have made a number of ranting statements accusing other people of being intolerant apparently because you don't agree with their views, or sometimes with views that you attribute to them on slightly dubious grounds; you have just been downright offensive to Arkangel. The point that reasonable people often hold personal views and express them without expecting the rest of the world to agree, or to live by the same personal standards, and are quite prepared to listen politely when others express views with which they are unable to share, seems to have passed you by.
Shouting down other people and accusing them of bigotry is hardly going to convince anyone.
Henry Rogers - when somebody equates homosexuals with paedophiles then you have to rest your case - because clearly this person is incapable of understanding that is wrong and offensive.
These views that Arkangel holds are not the views of a modern and civilised society. He might be a very nice person who simply is misguided and misinformed. I don't know - perhaps it is a generaltional thing - I don't know - but I know a bigoted view when I hear one...
I've recently heard these views from Warsi, I've heard them from Sarah Palin, and I've heard them from people on this blog...
So be it. I do rest my case.
edit>
perhaps it is a generational thing .
Canvas said:
.......perhaps it is a generational thing.......
So rational debate based on sensible arguments and conducted with courtesy is "so early 20th Century" rather than timeless? But I'm sure you'll remember hearing or reading a saying to the effect that there are two arguments about everything, dating from 5thC BC.
canvas said...
.
These views that Arkangel holds are not the views of a modern and civilised society. He might be a very nice person who simply is misguided and misinformed. I don't know - perhaps it is a generaltional thing - I don't know - but I know a bigoted view when I hear one...
Canvas, you wouldn't know what a bigoted view was if it got up and hit you.
I don't like travelling on trains. Does that make me bigoted?
I don't like paedophiles. Does that make me bigoted?
You are clearly not at one with the real world my friend.
@Arkangel: "I don't like paedophiles"
It sounds like you think all gay people are paedophiles. That's ignorant.
verde said...
@Arkangel: "I don't like paedophiles"
It sounds like you think all gay people are paedophiles. That's ignorant.
November 10, 2008 3:02 PM
Did I say that? I don't think so.
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