As some of you may already know, the United Kingdom Youth Parliament is debating in the House of Commons Chamber today. The fact it is allowed to sit in the chamber at all is looked upon by traditionalists with some disdain. What I am about to say with fill them not just with disdain, but horror.I am told that a young Sinn Fein member of the UK Youth Parliament named Connor Morgan (pic, right) will be speaking in the House of Commons chamber today. Yes, you read that right. A Sinn Fein member speaking in a UK Parliament. There are two ways of looking at this. You can take the view that it is a sign of how far the peace process has come that a Sinn Fein member is a member of a UK (emphasis on the UK) Youth Parliament, let alone is being allowed to sit on the hallowed benches of the Mother of Parliaments. Or alternatively it will make you sick to your stomach that someone who presumably agrees with the views of Messers McGuinness and Adams and would refuse to swear the oath of allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen is allowed to set foot in the place.
But this story has two twists. Connor Morgan told my assistant, Grant Tucker, yesterday that he would be making a speech during the proceedings today and he would be doing it while speaking Irish Gaelic*. Not only that, but according to Morgan, Mr Speaker Bercow had readily given his permission to do that. If that is true (and I emphasise, IF), it's incredible and will undoubtedly have consequences.
Mr Morgan has a charming turn of phrase. On his Facebook page he says, referring to George Osborne...
Gideon, get off my TV, you're a c*nt.
Of course if young Mr Morgan (pic, centre) used that word in the House of Commons today, no one would know, as no one else would be able to understand a word he would be saying.As far as I am concerned if you can’t pledge your oath of allegiance to the Queen you shouldn’t sit in the House of Commons. Simples. But the fact that Sinn Fein are allowing him to speak in the Chamber is even more shocking. Or perhaps they remain in blissful ignorance.
The second twist is to question Mr Morgan's sense of good taste. On his Facebook page he is pictured taking part in a Hunger Strike protest, wearing what I am pretty sure is an RUC uniform, and carrying a gun. Next to him is someone with a sawn off shotgun, if I am not mistaken. A UUP friend of mine said last night he found it "sickening for them [the uniforms] to be used in this manner".
So on the twentieth anniversary of the IRA murder of one of the House of Commons' finest MPs, Ian Gow, the chamber in which he was so proud to sit is about to be spoken to by someone who clearly has at least a modicum of sympathy with those who took his life.
I applaud the peace process. It is remarkable what has been achieved on both sides of the political divide. But the fact that Sinn Fein MPs do not take their seats still shows what a divided place Northern Ireland is. I have tried to write up this story in an unemotional manner but believe me, I am tempted to write it very differently. For my heart still tells me this is wrong. That a supporter of a cause which took the lives of Lord Mountbatten, Airey Neave, Ian Gow and so many more besides, should today be sitting beneath the plaque to Airey Neave in the chamber of the House of Commons, leaves me cold.
* I believe the only MP to speak Gaelic in the House of Commons was the LibDem Ray Michie, who swore the oath in Gaelic when she took her seat in 2001. Unless, of course, you know different.
UPDATE: Another two lovely status updates from Connor Morgan's Facebook page...
Connor Morgan Facebook "Connor is attending global celebration when maggie thatcher dies. • RSVP to this event"
Connor is attending Having a Party when Thatcher Dies. • RSVP to this event
Connor Morgan "Happy birthday you old bastard" (Thatcher)
What a charming lad he is.
UPDATE: LibDem blogger Stephen Glenn explains why I am wrong. Tory Radio on why I disgust him.
52 comments:
Perhaps someone present would do us all a favour and tell him to his face, in Gaelic, to F*** Off, thus causing no offence to anyone in the House but him.
I think that 'sick to the stomach' just about covers my feelings regarding this subject. However I am not surprised, as Tony Blair sold out to Sinn Fein/IRA some years ago and the whole process of Northern Ireland moving away from being part of the UK has been in process for years.
We are generally too soft in this country and over the coming years I fear that we will pay for this softness again and again as those with more strength of purpose take advantage of our weakness.
Ach! Dona go leor! Dia dúinn!
Whilst I have heaps of sympathy over the deaths of people on both sides in the troubles and the MPS that were murdered, I have to say that there are loads of occasions in history where this has happened. In fact, is our government not at this very moment encouraging Israel to make peace with a group that is still vowing to destroy it. Bottom line is that the Good Friday agreement has saved countless lives, and hey, if Ian Paisley could serve in government with Sinn Fein then we all should be able to.
However, I do agree he should be speaking English
Is it ironic or bizarre that he's shown wearing a RUC uniform, dressed as the enemy which they have detested for so many decades?
The Irish Language runs in their veins and is a huge, innate part of the Irish nationalist psyche, given that it remains the official language of the Irish Republic, is spoken on Aer Lingus, is on their signage etc. despite the fact that outsiders don't understand a word of it!
I question their motives for attending the UK Youth Parliament. Little Bercow's attitude to them doesn't surprise me.
Although I am instinctively against the Youth Parliament (so-called) using the chamber at all, this is particularly horrible.
Might not a solution be to require people taking part in this "experience" to swear the oath?
Iain,
If connor Morgan is a member of the youth Parliament he should be allowed to sit - end of. Just because Sinn Fein's proper representitives refuse to sit, that doesn't mean he cannot if they give him the go-ahead.
UK governments of all colours have, and do, directly and indirectly support movements/parties/countries who I and many other would class as terrorists or fascists but you and many others would not. Just because he/Sinn Fein aren't on "your side" (for want of a better phrase) and they have done some terrible things, it doesn't make it any more dreadful than our representitives who continue to do it on a regular basis.
However, I don't believe he - or anyone else for that matter - should be allowed to speak in Gaelic. If he's in the house of Ccommons and has a something to say, he should communicate it with everyone - unless he's just trying to take the proverbial (which I think he possibly is). If he only wants to speak to the Irish, in Gaelic, there are appropriate places for that.
Gaelic is an ancient language of the four countries that make up the UK. It is in fact much older than the English language. It is the official language of Ireland and spoken widely and it was spoken far and wide in Scotland before the union and even today it is still spoken by 250,000 people in Scotland. It is also a useful way of reminding Westminster of their refusal to grant the democratic right of self determination amongst to the sizeable number of the UK population in Wales, Ireland and Scotland that do not want to remain within the UK.
Actually, the first use of Irish in the Commons was by Thomas McDonnell MP on 19 February 1901.
The compilers of Hansard went so far out of their way as to record his contribution in Gaelic type as opposed to Roman letters:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0302/1224242082619.html
Note that the Irish language and Scottish Gaelic are two distinct, but closely related, languages (rather like Dutch and German).
While Airey Neave was undoubtedly murdered by the INLA, they have always said that he was not targeted by them, but the details of how to murder him were passed to them from ''others''.
Enoch Powell believed the CIA targeted Mountbatten, Neave and other key British nationalists, presumably to facilitate our entry into the EU. Neave died the day that it became obvious Thatcher would win the leadership.
There is a lot we don't know about how we've ended up inside the EU as it is today, and a lot we don't know about who controls it.
Any Conservative leader who stands against the EU publicly is sorted in fairly short order - Thatcher, IDS are the primary examples. Cameron has chosen to back down and say nothing to the current raft of EU abuses of our freedoms. Then again maybe he knows what the consequences would be if he did.
If Sinn Fein won't swear loyalty to the Queen, will they swear loyalty and bow down to the EU? That is who they and we serve nowadays, and is why Ireland is a bankrupt country inside the Euro. Irish and British nationalists have much in common in the certainty that we must both somehow find a way out of our EU imprisonment.
If the young speaker finds it easier to imply threats of violence against Britain, than face the reality of the current power structure, he is living in the past, and should open his eyes.
We are both prisoners of a new empire now. It threatens us all with a collapse of civilised standards - of our economies, of our democracies and our respective nations.
I hope the young Irish speaker addresses the real culprits, and doesn't merely look deep into the past to run over old ground where there is already an agreement in place, that if a majority of the people of Northern Ireland desire separation from Britain, it would have a democratic basis, and would take place.
You might hope, given such an agreement, that Sinn Fein would see that we need to cooperate to face a common threat now. Or will it be like WW2 all over again, where past hatreds are seen as more important than current realities? Hitler was delighted, and Ireland escaped the worst.
This time Ireland's economy is facing serious degradation sooner than Britain's, but the solution will be as before. Only through cooperation between fellow independent nations will we find the way out of the mess that's been created by the crazed dreams of economic empire by Euro-idealists, as they reach desperately for the next bail-out, until finally their economic rust bucket cracks.
As for his choice of language, who cares? We could have Welsh spoken again and Cornish if it helped the cause of democracy.
Would you also make an issue if Plaid Cymru spoke in Welsh in the houses of Parliment.
Would you also have an issue if Plaid Cymru spoke Welsh in the house. Or indeed Latin which has been spoken in the house once or twice.
Prince harry dressed up in a Nazi uniform which offended many people. Would you object to him speaking in the commons. Because of a uniform that would offend people?
It is a youth parliament for god sake. Who cares they are idiots.
The fact that Bercow was chosen by Labour for essentially tribal reasons, and the bizarre opinions of his wife must have rung alarm bells in the minds of many who value the traditions of the HoC. This event, and his decision to allow a speech in a language that render it incomprehensible to 99% of its audience, marks Bercow's leading us into farce.
The man has no "bottom", no gravitas and no moral clarity, just when such qualities are in desperate need in this country. The ship of state is rudderless as it drifts towards the rocks, like the fleet of Sir Cloudesley Shovell in 1709.
Are we to have Ahmadinejad, Nazrullah and Haniyah next, debating the Holocaust and the Protocols and taking the HoC into the level of disrepute of the UN? Because if the only man in the way is a pushover like Bercow, the tradition of Speaker Lenthall will be truly in the mud.
Of course it's wrong, but this is what Blair and Brown have done to our country, and we shouldn't kid ourselves otherwise.
Cameron could speak up I suppose, but is he willing to rock the boat? I doubt it.
I have, literally amongst other thing, picked up bits of body in NI and find even the fact that Adams and McGuiness are allowed in the Parliament building repulsive, and I had to turn away from this article to save me clicking on his facebook link.
Shameful, but what can we do when politicians are shamelessly allowing it?
While I appreciate the sentiments, this sounds like a yearning for the good old days of no-dialogue-with-Sinn-Fein circa 1996.
"on the twentieth anniversary of the IRA murder of one of the House of Commons' finest MPs, Ian Gow" - eh? Ian Gow was murdered in July 1990, not on 29 October.
The Sinn Féin constitution states that its candidates will not take their seats in any United Kingdom institution. It doesn't mention anything about oaths of allegiance so even if the oath was dropped (which I would strongly oppose) the SF MPs would still not attend. However, elections to the UK Youth Parliament are not on a party basis, so Connor Morgan can legitimately take the view that he is there as himself rather than as a representative of an Irish Republican organisation.
To speed things up but make it as realistic as possible. The speaker at the beginning of the session, should say. "Anyone one who attending this session, if ever elected as an an MP would not swear the oath, leave the chamber. Otherwise it will be taken that they agree, they WILL take the oath to the Queen".
I wonder what the Sinn Fein member would do?
"Perhaps someone present would do us all a favour and tell him to his face, in Gaelic, to F*** Off, thus causing no offence to anyone in the House but him."
The convention is to address Mr Speaker.
Iain,
The other "gentleman" in the photo is carrying an M1 carbine, this was standard US army issue later on in WW2 and Korea. It fired a 30 caliber cartridge (7.62mm * 33mm). Much favoured by US troops for closer action work and accuracy at reduced ranges. If it is the selective fire/fully automatic version capable of up to 900 rounds a minute it would be the M2.
I would have thought this would be the ideal gun for the IRA to use in many cases; probably better than the Sten Gun that Mr Morgan is holding.
Daedalus
This situation should never have arisen as the Youth Parliament, or what ever it's called, is a waste of tax payers money. Central and local govt., should simply take an axe to it and close it down.
Sorry should have added to the last post.
There is no way anyone from Sinn Fein should be allowed to talk in the house unless those voted in to represent Sinn Fein have sworn the oath of allegiance.
If Mr. Bercow has allowed this, it just confirms what a cretin he is.
Daedalus
He is clearly what is called in Norn Iron an 'eidgit' but what is delicious about this is that he he is breaking SF policy and may therefore be drummed out of the party
A disturbing aspect of the "Peace Process" is having to accept people who think it's OK to kill babies as valid members of our society.
But if this acceptance means no more babies being killed then I'm for it.
An immature attention seeker, as both the present project and photos make clear.
However, I imagine he's loving the notoriety of appearing in your blog and no doubt elsewhere.
It would perhaps have been better just to have ignored the poor fool rather than adopt his agenda.
Bercow's lost the plot, speaking in a foreign language? who'se gonna understand a word he's saying? which rather defeats the objective of bloody speaking in the house.
This chap needs to be banned, he is clearly a supporter of terrorism and terrorists and shopuld not be given the oxygen of publicity.
Why is he invited?
Agreed, he's a dick. But I'm afraid it's not the "House of Commons" if the Commons is not sitting.
However, Erskine May states that Members must address the House in English. Perhaps if the Speaker had any respect for Parliamentary tradition and procedure whatsoever, he would insist that the UK Youth 'Parliament' conduct themselves as if they were bound by the rules of the House when using it.
The villian of this piece is less the imature oik from Sinn Fein, and more the Squeaker, I'm sorry to say.
Reminds me of the old FCS. No wonder Bercow has a soft spot. He probably figures the boy will grow out of it like he did.
Just a foolish child full of inherited hatred.
The top photo shows a Stirling SMG and a Ruger M1 as issued to the RUC. In the other photo can be seen a wooden stocked FN SLR L1A1, and what looks like a Federal Riot Gun.
None of those weapons were available in replica variants; all were in service in Northern Ireland used by the RUC (Ruger M1) and the Army; PIRA are known to have acquired these weapons through purchase in the NI or stealing them from armouries.
The photos illustrate that this youth parliamentarian may be associated with, and trusted by armed republicans (at least, trusted enough to pose openly with their weapons). Depending on the date of the photographs they may also prove that which many people in NI suspect, that decommissioning is a farce, with many hidden weapons remaining. Looking at the clothing of the bystanders it seems fairly recent.
One for the PSNI to have a look into, I'd have thought. And if anyone from the Commons security department is reading this, it may be worth looking into his background before giving him a pass to enter the building.
You would have thought he would have organised some privacy settings.
Most of the comments on this seem to miss the point. If it's wrong, it's wrong, and this lad ought not to be there to make a gesture. How you stop that, I don't know, but really, the whole event is an oxygen tent for every young nutter around.
Something the Irish appear to admit to themselves, and no one else, is that their biggest problem has been the tendency always to blame someone else, usually the English. As an Irish friend of mine likes to remark, "A well balanced Irishman has a chip on each shoulder."
M wrote:
Gaelic is an ancient language of the four countries that make up the UK.
Well, two of them actually. Welsh, Cornish etc are not Gaelic.
It is in fact much older than the English language.
This is a nonsensical statement. All languages change over time, and modern Gaelic stands in the same relation to ancient Gaelic as modern English does to Old English.
it was spoken far and wide in Scotland before the union
About 500 years before the union, perhaps, but by 1707 most people in Scotland spoke English, especially in the lowlands.
refusal to grant the democratic right of self determination amongst to the sizeable number of the UK population in Wales, Ireland and Scotland that do not want to remain within the UK.
Scotland, Wales and NI all have devolved assemblies. If and when the nationalist parties win majorities in those assemblies, they'll be able to claim a democratic mandate for "self-determination", but not before then.
Simon Lewis pointed out that "...I have to say that there are loads of occasions in history where this has happened. In fact, is our government not at this very moment encouraging Israel to make peace with a group that is still vowing to destroy it."
Indeed, and lets face it. British politicians have sat down is Israel with Israeli politicians who helped to murder British soldiers back in the days of the Palastine mandate.
It goes even further. In the 1940's, Richard Crossman visited John Strachey (a member of the Cabinet Defence Committee)and asked him for advice about a act of sabotage by his Zionist friends. The next day in the smoking room at the HoC, the two met and Strachey gave his approval. Said blowing up of a bridge was promptly done. This is all on the record.
This is the way of politics. If you don't like it, I suggest you try war instead - you'll quickly find that it's a lot dirtier.
I have to say that there are loads of occasions in history where this has happened ... and hey, if Ian Paisley could serve in government with Sinn Fein then we all should be able to.
You don't have to say anything, and hey, what you have actually said doesn't make us any wiser.
"I hope the young Irish speaker addresses the real culprits"
It won't make any difference (fortunately) whom he addresses, since he will be unintelligible.
The way I see it Iain your just saying that your disgusted by it rather than not thinking it should be allowed,I can't see why anyone would'nt think it sickeningly hypacritical for a member of an Organisation linked with Murder to protray themselves as a junior politician ,taliking in a chamber that practices the ballot box over the bomb, while standing next to a plaque for a fallen politician killed by the so called military wing of his organisation
I knew Ian Gow and worked with him here in Northern Ireland. I lived through the worst of the Troubles so you might exect me to be outraged by young Connor. I'm not. This is the reality of every day political life in Northern Ireland. This is what Blair's capitulation to the IRA created. This is what its like in our assembly. . All because the Baltic Exchange was more important than the freedom of British subjects who were unfortunate enough to live in Northern Ireland. And I didn't see the Tory benches rising as one to object to Blair's Irish solution. Your own home grown terrorists will learn from the success of their friends in Ulster. It's only a matter of time until Arabic is spoken as a matter of course in parliament and your deputy Prime Minister will be a man with a hook.
He's not in the same league as Obnoxio the Clown
"what you have actually said doesn't make us any wiser."
But you are, as FE Smith once put it, better informed.
Iain I see exactly where you are coming from, and share some of your views. But as I stated in my blogpost, I have to disagree
http://paulburgin.blogspot.com/2010/10/sinn-fein-representative-in-house-of.html
Iain - I sympathise with your revulsion. The IRA were a wicked force. And did we win, or did we capitulate? Well they didn't achieve their goals by force, and they are more-or-less out of action in the game of killing fellow British and Irish citizens, and their representatives are part of the government. They achieved far more by peace than by war.
I think we won.
And this young chap - and he is only an apprentice politician, and allowed to be a bit uncouth - is making a positive gesture by engaging with his fellow citizens of the United Kingdom in Westminster.
If he chooses to use one of the main languages spoken by citizens of the United Kingdom for part of his address, then there is surely no problem. It is for you, and those like you, to tolerate this, though you might not be used to it. It is a trivial test to see if you are willing to tolerate people who disagree with you, and if someone like you can't cope with that why should the likes of him take you as seriously as you do?
Another point - you and some other commenters have shown a lack of knowledge and insight into the lives of fellow citizens of this country by confusing Irish with Scots Gaelic. They are indeed different languages. This is, of course, particularly glaring since your forename is a Scots Gaelic name.
And the notion of taking an oath of loyalty to the crown? I would, with the greatest of respect, ask you to grow up. Let us bring people together, not find excuses to keep them out. The United Kingdom will survive for not much longer if only the English establishment decides who is and who is not allowed to speak and in what language.
Slainte mhath, bodach!
The fact that Connor Morgan spoke in the house of commons truly shows progress. If he's the bigoted sectarian IRA member that this blog and some of those who have commented made him out to be then, firstly why did he speak in the House in the first place, secondly why did he travel with a youth group made up of both Catholics and Protestants, Nationalist/ Republicans and Unionists. Quite obviously this is uneducated Tories passing their bigoted and out dated judgement on something they don't understand. Well done Connor Morgan, and well done Mr Speaker! I don't know if Iain watched Connors speech but if he did he obviously seen the level of support from MYP's, that is the future of Politics in this country!
Thank goodness someone has left a sensible comment here (Stoop).
One only wishes that people could get their facts right before launching a bigoted and quite frankly ignorant witch hunt on a YOUNG PERSON attending a YOUTH EVENT.
I hope and pray that this blog is not a reflection of attitudes in England.
The Irish Language poses no threat to England nor anyone else.
Conor opened his input with one sentence in Irish.
Had a young French man opened his input in his native tongue thanking the Speaker would there be the same backlash?
One thinks not.
God help us all!
I pray for an end to this lunacy - Iain Dale - i hope you are proud.
Thank goodness someone has left a sensible comment here (Stoop).
One only wishes that people could get their facts right before launching a bigoted and quite frankly ignorant witch hunt on a YOUNG PERSON attending a YOUTH EVENT.
I hope and pray that this blog is not a reflection of attitudes in England.
The Irish Language poses no threat to England nor anyone else.
Conor opened his input with one sentence in Irish.
Had a young French man opened his input in his native tongue thanking the Speaker would there be the same backlash?
One thinks not.
God help us all!
I pray for an end to this lunacy - Iain Dale - i hope you are proud.
But you are, as FE Smith once put it, better informed.
Touché.
In Gaelic he said "Mr Speaker, I am very honoured to stand before you speaking in this House"
I can't quite share your disgust.
Maybe when talking about facebook comments, you could remember about your own "assitant" or dirt digger Grant Tucker, why was it he was sacked as chair of welsh conservative future, yes thats right, he said on his facebook he wished George Galloway was dead, i bet you didnt write a blog about this, how very very very hypocritical of you, people shouldnt be disgusted at this brave, courageous young man, who performed outstandingly well, after reading your disgrace of an article, they should be disgusted at you, grow up and move on Iain, you are a disgrace
Wow, you really are an actual idiot. Firstly, shame on you for deliberately searching for material to use against Connor on Facebook, you really must have nothing better to do with your time and for that, I actually feel sorry for you.
Aside from that, I think you are losing sight of the fact that Connor is a Member of Youth Parliament - a party which remains a-party political, and the fact he is a Sinn Fein member is irrelevant - there were people in the chamber from all parties, all ideologies and all religions on Friday, but it makes no difference. Members were all there to represent the young people who voted for them and support each other and their cause - to improve things for young people and have their voice heard.
And what better way to have his voice heard than to speak in one sentence in Irish, something which was received with the greatest pleasure by everybody in the chamber.
Everybody in the chamber, including me, were, are and still will be, exceptionally proud of Connor for his speech, and close-minded bigots like you won't change that.
see Connors speech on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaKHn4sMLqY
To be rather frank with you Mr. Dale (or would you rather me use terms that probably describe your nature more accuratly, see above for these and take the hint that i am suggesting they are they are not the most plesant pick of the bunch) this blog is appalling.
NOT ONLY is the parliament a critical part to the democracy system it's function is much greater, it affects every citizen of the UNITED KINGDOM including all young people and so it is only right that Young peoples views are listned to. Unlike yourself the gentleman to whom you refer was ELECTED by members of his constituency and has the right to voice these opinions.
the young people that sat in the chamber, of differant ethnic minorities, both female and male, from all over the UK, regardless of there physical ability, sat on the 29th to represent all the young people that are effected by the decissions made in what is the most influential house present today to date: the young people who will be left with the debt the generations before us have created, to fight the wars we are currently in and repair the economic damage left to us. we dabated topics that affect our everyday lives at a standard i am sure a narrow minded bafoon (and of course i would like to stress the effort i am making to be polite here) like you would surely be incapable of.
At the begining of your so called 'blog' and again i use this term in it's lightest form you stress the word ''UK'' i would just like to remind you that this term in its full is stated as 'The United kingdom of Northern Irland and Great Britain' and so members from all over the UK deserve to be present within this.
In my opinion i would like to state my discust at both the original points and the disgraceful comments found within this blog, to me, it sounds like nothing but a bitter man who is unable to understand or accept other peoples beliefs and opinions. Gaelic is the language of this young man and he has every right to speak his own language, and if you actualy watched the debate, he carries on to translate his words into english for us all to understand, and he even thanks Mr. Speaker and the house for letting him do so. The fact he continued to do so even with the negative focus coming from individuals such as yourselves shows his stregnth of character of which you seem to lack. And i greatly understand the lack of years life experiance i have compared to you, but within my years as MYP i have talked with, debated with and learned to love the individuality of everyone i know within the UKYP.
And within my life experiance from the moment i was brought into this world, i began to comprehend the term emotions and infact anger, i began to learn that holding a hot coal in anger ready to harm someone else only harms yourself.
learn to look at both sides of the argument before acting so obnoxiously, many thanks.
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