It's not been a good couple of weeks for the Great Clunking Fist. First there was his budget, and now comes the revelation that he was warned by Treasury officials of the consequences of the cost of his pensions raids in 1997. Ed Balls appeared on the Today Programme this morning and gave another supercilously arrogant performance in which he denied having received such advice.
This single decision, the ultimate stealth tax, turned Britain's pensions system from being oneof the best in the world to one of the worst. It also hit the poorest in society the most - as Brown was warned at the time it would. What kind of Chancellor ignores that kind of advice?
Margaret Beckett gives David 'Milibland' some advice today. She says he would be offering himself up as a human sacrifice if he stood against Gordon Brown. Rather like herself when she stood against Tony Blair in 1994 then.
As he reads the papers over his Weetabix this morning Miliband could be forgiven if he felt that Gordon Brown's reputation was unravelling before his very eyes.
He is the peoples champion.
Please run David.
We love you.
I have no love for Brown, but whenever I hear Milliband spouting on Radio 4 I reach for my sick bag. I laughed into my hand when I read Beckett's comments on the BBC news site this morning about him being a "brilliant man". He seems typical to me of a bright young Oxbridge thing, full of his own importance and windbaggery and entirely lacking in any actual knowledge of how things are made, sold, exported, how jobs are created and kept in place, etc. He does share this actually with Balls and Brown, but I suppose the latter is older and wiser and therefore manages to keep his profound ignorance under wraps a little better.
Not so sure on the pensions thing though - the statistical analyses in Pension mags seem to indicate it was over-investment in bad risks like Tech companies prior to the .com bust that stuffed a lot of funds, plus demographics (the old living much longer than actuaries thought they would), people saving less, big companies raiding their funds and some well established and profitable funds falling into the hands of City boys who predated them for personal profit.
Anon 9:44, you are right about the pension funds and the biggest thing were rule changes made by the Thatcher and Major governments that removed separation between funds and employers; value of many funds has subsequently been raided by companies. Also relaxation of city laws which meant that fat cats could earn huge commissions from pension funds not previously paid to anyone other than pensioners. The Brown thing is just a Daily Mail smokescreen.
Despite the efforts of the Brownite at 9.44 trying to rubbish Miliband and excuse Brown for the destruction of pensions, the fact remains that Stalin Brown wrecked the best pension system in Europe for £5billion tax a year but also to force millions of workers into poverty in retirement and onto means tested benefits.
Brown wants us all totally dependant on him, that's why they call him Stalin.
Everybody needs to read this from today's Times:
9.44 and 9.48: one Brownite spinner, two desperate, dishonest posts.
Just face it sunshine. This is another diastrous day for Brown. He's been caught red handed destroying the pensions of milions of British workers.
I wonder what his few remaining friends in the unions think of that?
Out of the frying pan, that link doesn't seem to go to anything about Brown, do you have the exact link you meant?
Tory spinners Fying Pan and Bogeyman. The $5bn figure you quote is straight from a Mail article that appeared soon after the tax changes you refer to. It was declared to be "completely innacurate" by a panel of pension accounting experts who did a feature article for Pension News a year ago and a "gross distortion of the facts". The true figure lies in the range 500m - 1bn. This is approximately 2.5% of the loss incurred by profit-taking in the City since the big bang on invested funds. Stop repeating lies that you don't even understand, try reading a few articles from experts and go figure.
Anon 10:08, I feel sure you are right just on logic. It cannot possibly be the case that all those commissions earned in the City are having no effect, with payments of £20 million going to people who do nothing for productive industry or commercial growth that creates value for funds.
Either one or several Brownite anonymongs are very busy on this thread.
This scandalous revelation over Brown's deliberate destruction of British pensions has got them running round like headless chickens.
Perhaps the game is up for Gordo?
Look Gordimmo was given the advice, he chose to go ahead with his way, it has all unravelled since during his watch as chancellor.
The twat is guilty as charged - even Robert Mugabe would be able to agree with that conclusion!
And they want this tosser to run the country?!?
"He seems typical to me of a bright young Oxbridge thing, full of his own importance and windbaggery and entirely lacking in any actual knowledge of how things are made, sold, exported, how jobs are created and kept in place, etc".
Nicely put by Anonymous.
Just how low has this country sunk? I can't believe that types like Milliband are even in government.
Great stuff by "out of the frying pan" as well.
Barnacle Bill, what's far worse in my opinion is the acquiescence of British voters. How the business community allows vile NuLabour to get away with things is beyond me.
When the Turner Report on pensions was published in 2006 the BBC reported:
'The chancellor is said to be annoyed at the proposal to end the means-tested pension credit and raise the state pension in line with average earnings.' ...
Brown called for a national debate on pensions (this gem in the face of Turner's monumental study of the pensions situation, which is now shown to have been a Brown-driven disaster)
The BBC report continues:
'.. some cynics have suggested this is a holding tactic and that the report will be kicked into the long grass.'
The cynics were right. And so is Out of the Frying Pan, 'Brown wants us all totally dependent on him, that's why they call him Stalin.'
"all those commissions in the City"...............
typical chip on the shoulder "I can't have, so you can't have" Labour voting loser.
Do me favour, visit North Korea. On a one-way ticket.
Out of the frying pan, how on earth did you conclude that Anon 9.44 is a Brownite given that he accused Brown of "profound ignorance"? Maybe you need to start reading a few posts before you spout. It was quite a funny and accurate post.
The tendancy to flap on about Brown's tax change on pension relief is justified, but it isn't the whole story. Pensions have suffered multiple hits from incoming missiles from different governments. Ironically, it is NL outsider Frank Field who generally is most worth listening to as an opposition voice on this subject rather than the clueless Daily Mail cohorts.
Anyone for returning to a properly-funded State Pension which used to be the envy of the World?
Brown's sell-off of a large proportion of the UK's gold reserves was also something of a disaster. He sold at a historic low, the gold price subsequently rose to a 25 year high.
Was it Beckett's or Brown's idea to get Miliband busy with a survey for the next couple of months?
To the Broonie anonymong/s:
Read the Times article. The actual documents obtained under the FOI act show that treasury officials told Mr Brown:
"–– The lower paid would be worse off under the new rules
–– Pensioners due to retire would lose out immediately
–– Businesses would struggle to adjust to the change
–– It would cost pension providers £4 billion a year
–– Pension benefits would be cut
–– Shares could drop by between 6 per cent and 20 per cent
–– The value of existing pension funds could fall immediately by £50 billion
–– Local authority schemes would need topping up, leading to higher public spending
–– The Department of Trade and Industry would be “gravely concerned” about having to bail out pension schemes driven into insolvency"
Hardly Daily Mail spinning.
Just what is it with you people, does your blind tribal loyalty to Labour completely shut down your ability to think clearly and face facts?
I dread to think of the knock on effects of £100bn being siphoned out of British industry to be burnt by Brown.
You think this country's in a bad state now? The money has just about run out, and the spending will stop. God help us all then.
"Profound ignorance' is the least awful of Brown's characteristics, Anon. 10.40.
At least you've acknowleding that aspect of the Chancellor though.
Iain, I want to remind you of something you said earlier this week.
That John Reid would only be in the job a matter of weeks. Could you not see him throwing his hat in the ring againt Gordon ?
Okay, Clarke hates him, so it would be a different pitch from the current Anyone But Gordon team - but I don't think that this could be discounted. Or am I barking up the wrong tree ?
The perceived wisdom was that a few escaped prisoners / foreign prisoners fiasco would sink him.
I think he has bounced back pretty well, all things considered. No politician is entirely baggage free - and Reid is lighter than most.
To Anon @ 10:45 AM...
The gold price plummeted because Brown actually announced he was going to flog all of our gold reserves off well in advance.
I think unravelling is the right description. When I listened to Friday's "Today" programme, the "Yesterday in Parliament" reporter stressed how dishevelled Brown looked when he tried to defend his discredited budget; his hair was uncombed and his tie askew.
Now Brown has gone off to Afghanistan with Des Browne. Another Macavity disappearing act?
I feel that Brown has not got the psyche to take the intense and prolonged scrutiny involved in being Prime Minister.
Brown will not be Prime Minister
I read that that paragon of financial dealing at DEFRA, M. Beckett is advising Miliband not to stand. Pots and Kettles calling each other black?
If it weren't for all those dreadful types in the City making huge salaries, our economy would make Zimambwe's look good.
Surely the lesson to learn about pensions, as about so many other things, is keep the Government (any Govt) out of things. If any of them really knew about finance, they'd be out there making money, not fleecing me.
The eventual verdict on Brown as Chancellor will be damning.
He has thrown away future financial stability in an attempt to shore up the present. The destruction of the pension system and the reliance on supposedly "off-balance sheet" PPP and PFI are more reminiscent of a chav storecard spending spree than so-called Prudence.
Brown's problem is that unfeasibly high IQ and an uncommon deficit of common sense partly as a result of never having lived in the real world. The idiot savant means well but he has not a clue about the law of unintended consequences. Tax credits fiasco - warned by civil servants. Pensions. Wanted to increase R+D by companies. Result 18 million savers worse off. He should be locked up in a sanatorium. Brown is the worst Chancellor in living memory. History will judge him harshly.
Whilst the headlines are full of quotes from current (or recently departed) Labour front benchers, it won't be them who "do for" Gordon.
It will be all of those - otherwise unemployable - Labour MPs who know that just a small swing in a General Election would see them thrown off the gravy train for good.
Methinks Gordon needs to watch out for the little people...
I have to agree with all the posters here today,I would like to add my thoughts to this interesting debate but was out with friends last night and had rather too much to drink.I normally don't like alcohol but last night it tasted quite nice, anyway I would just like to say I love you all very much.
Could you get your tech wretch to tinker with the comments logic and display poster's IP addresses?
I'd love to know where these 'anonymous' - the pensions mess wasn't Mr Brown's fault really - posters come from.
Theo Spark said...
Brown will not be Prime Minister
Hello Theo trying to get a few folks to pop over and have a peek at your blog are you ? I have tried to post comments over there a few times and I assume because I disagreed with many of your cretinous views they never appeared.You are a plonker Theo,stick to showing us the pics and keep your big fat mouth shut.Still unemployed are you ?
Dave Bartlett said...
Could you get your tech wretch to tinker with the comments logic and display poster's IP addresses?
We don't do things like that you idiot now skip away and post your comments on the Daily Mail letters page like a good chap.
swingometer said...Methinks Gordon needs to watch out for the little people...
Methinks you don't know what you are talking about,however thanks for the "methinks" never realised it could be spelt as one word.Having checked it I can also offer the following "methought" which is also acceptable.You folk no little to nothing about politics and the real word but can't fault your spelling.
Every effort will be made by the Brown camp to stop the most credible candidate in the Labour Party from running.
Davisd Miliband is the person most likely to stop Gordon Brown reaching number 10.
Miliband is untouched by any actions that have have been levelled at Blair and Brown.
Miliband is the person who is not a bully and political thug and has come over as a rather decent man who is 'fit for purpose'.
Brown knows that Miliband can do this in a seven week round of hustings and MPs will have a decision to make.
5 years (as they see it) of Brown and then out to the Tories or 5 years+ of a new, young and dynamic leader within the age group of 'hope'.
It is a fool who thinks that Miliband will lose before a competition or a blow has been struck.
Please don't make the mistake that Party members are thick and stupid and will hand over votes to someone because he demands them.
Loyalty has made Labour into a record winning Party.
Disloyalty stuck the boot in when it was unneccesary and gave the Tories a lift.
To the Broonie anonymong/s:
To Rog keep it short,keep it interesting should you decide to post again.I would however advise against that as you are rather dull.
You presume too much, it is not your place to demand or request anything, quite simply this is not your blog site.
Gary Elsby said...
long-winded comments are not read by posters,and yours falls into the the long-winded category.
Tom said...12:59 PM
Who are you silly person ?
Let no-one be under any illusion, Gordon Brown is a thief - he stole £5bn a year from the pensions funds, thuis single-handedly causing the pensions crisis that has affected so many people in the past decade. He is the master of fiscal sleight-of-hand and has skills of obfuscation that put the Oxford Street three-card-trick scammers to shame. He uses statistics shamelessly to mis-represent the state of the economy, producing fiscal rabbits out of his invisible hat. He has mortgaged the future shamelessly through reckless PFI schemes, thus ensuring that we and our children will pay many times over for state assets - and, in many cases, will never own them. He has sold the gold bullion stocks at a disastrous price. He has raised taxation to levels previously never dreamt of and - astonishly for a Labour Chancellor - sueezed the poor far harder than the better off. He has presided over the biggest explosion of public spending in living memory - and all everyone asks is, 'where has the money gone?' This Chancellor is a complete disaster, and the prospect of this autistic, retentive, flawed individual becoming prime minister is a symbol of how low this country has sunk under Labour.
This is especially so when Milliband is held up as a plausible alternative. This robotic, speak-your-weight careerist politician has never had a real job, never created any wealth, never produced anything of value, never existed outside the political balloon of Westminster. Like most of his tribe he has nothing original, principled,or fervently held to say and he has no vbeliefs to cling on to. His only objective is to be in office.
The real tragedy of Labour is that after ten years in office, there is no-one worthy of the succession. There's no-one to hold a candle to Blair in terms of political and electoral skill - and that's a real condemnation of a party. And, with 'Dave' wallowing in the intellectual shallows on the other side of the House, we are all in deep trouble.
There - I feel better now!
mcgevsGordon's great pension grab, where the cost to date amounts to a staggering £100,000,000,000 - truly an unimaginable sum of money, equivalent to approximately £19,200 for every minute Labour has been in power.
Stolen, at a stroke, from employees in the private sector trying to provide for their retirement, whilst 10 years later those employed by the State continue to enjoy final salary, indexed-linked pension provisions - just how fair is that?
This horror story is now really starting to be hit home and whatever Brown may or may not achieve over the next 2 - 3 years, this is what will ultimately do for him.
"Theo Spark said...
Brown will not be Prime Minister
Hello Theo trying to get a few folks to pop over and have a peek at your blog are you ?"
No harm in that my friend - most entertaining - you don't seem to have a blog. Your employment comment is harsh particularily as I believe Theo may is a farmenr who DEFRA have how shall we say - not helped!!!
On a lighter note Blinky was going on about how Dave's great great great cousin thrice removed in 1807 was the then whig first lord of the treasury's office cleaner & actually taught the first lord how to knacker all our pensions so therefore its all really Dave's fault.
Further bogeyman, rocking horse and nappy research required for future use!!!
Is Gordon now in an unhappy place like Jack?
You seriously understate the pensions grab by Brown. It may have been £5 billion p.a. 10 years ago, but with today's much higher earnings and correspondingly higher pension liabilities, coupled with compounded interest on all the money grabbed over the intervening period, the current annual figure is at least £13 billion p.a. and RISING!
The risks highlighted in this report were obvious to any specialist in pensions at the time, and Ed Balls's defence of Gordon Brown is simply disingenuous. I could probably rummage around and see what specialist comments I could find from that time. It would be quite illuminating.
That said, the abolition of Advance Corporation Tax was not the only cause of the current pensions crisis, though it has played its part. Over-regulation by successive Governments, Tory and Labour, has had a big impact, as has unexpected increasing longevity and a current obsession of Government policy of eliminating the risk that an employer might become insolvent without being able to meet all pension scheme liabilities in full.
But ignore anyone who tells you that the dotcom crash was a major consideration: it simply was not. While there was a 53% drop in the stockmarket from 2000-2003, that is not much more than air turbulence in the long haul flight that is a pension scheme. A similar drop took place in the 1970s without any impact on the pensions system. The dotcom crash would not have been a problem if there had not been over-regulation of pension schemes.
By the way, pension schemes did not invest much in dotcoms - amusingly, at the time the current Government was trying to egg pension schemes on to invest more in more speculative investments. Fortunately, most pension schemes had more sense.
Brown is great
no he isn't
yes he is
I can tell you all now that this confirmation (for many of us already knew it) that Brown went ahead with the pensions grab despite being told of the disastrous effect it would have, is the final straw for many in the Labour Party.
Backstabbing Brown will now have a real fight on his hands if he is to take over from Tony Blair and, if he succeeds, he will be slaughtered by Cameron in a General Election.
Personally I believe Brown's political ambitions are now toast and it has today become more likely that he will not become Labour leader.
Colin - you are right, but alas, the current malaise goes still deeper. For all those of you who suspect Brown is some sort of ignorant old Labourite bent on giving cash to the poor, think again. His circles are the rich Thatcherite Gavyn Davies and the like. He is a very, very cunning man and rarely lacks purpose. I would guess for example that the gold sell-off had some purpose we don't know. There are after all such things as Hedge Funds and one wonders if Friends of Brown were in on the plot somehow?
So adding all the recent anony things together I get:
BROWN IS A GREAT YAWN
Why do the more rabid Thatcherites among you care about Pensions anyway? Surely the welfare of others is of no concern to you? Each person should simply go to war with their neighbours for food, money, etc and those who get killed due to starvation or lack of heating, well, that's just tough.
I wonder if Russian gangsters could be brought in to run the pension system? That's probably the Cameron/Milliband/Balls/Dale (for they are all basically the same) plan!
If ol' Gordo doesn't make to No 10, he will make Heath's Great Sulk seem positively trivial by comparison, a charming ray of sunlight.
In fact, there is a serious prospect that he will be so consumed by outrage he will spontaneously combust.
Gosh, what a HOOT that would be. Can hardly wait.
I see the Brownite anonymongs 2.07 are still with us and becoming increasingly desperate.
Meanwhile I hear Brown the pension snatcher is having some titanic tantrums deep down in his bunker today, Blinky Balls was roasted and then sent out to lie to his back teeth on his master's behalf, while Konrad is doing his best to try to cheer him up.
Brown however, alternates between apoplexy and despair as he sees his career ambitions slipping away fast.
But will Milibland do it? It all rather like the Roman Ampitheatre, where the small fry, thrown in as sword fodder for the Gladiator, is being cheered on by the crowd to fight back. Who in the Praetorian Guard (surrounding emperor Tony)will, on orders, throw his javelin into the Gladiator's back?
My problem with Theo is the comments he blocks in response to his sometimes foolish rants.Sorry for farmers ? don't be silly I live in Lincolnshire and we all admire their cars on market day and dream.
If he does run - and lose - Millibland cannot now complain. He's had the warning direct from the horse's arse.
But will Milibland do it? It all rather like the Roman Ampitheatre, where the small fry, thrown in as sword fodder for the Gladiator,
You've been reading a book you have.
Brown will probably not be Chancellor when his financial tinkerings come home to roost in a big way,but...we will remember him.
Jeremy Jacobs said...
Barnacle Bill, what's far worse in my opinion is the acquiescence of British voters.
The British voters are right you are wrong,you opinionated nincompoop.
another bad week for Gordon said...
I see the Brownite anonymongs 2.07 are still with us and becoming increasingly desperate.
We are indeed, but certainly not desperate we have all come over from Guidos' the silly fellow has started censoring all postings.He is running scared much like you and your ilk after the "Indy" poll showed the voters liked Gordon and his budget.
The risks highlighted in this report were obvious to any specialist in pensions
Well we're not so buzz off.
Sorry Iain, WHOSE reputation is unravelling? Back to school for you.
Pensioners for Gordon
Presume you missed the one yesterday from YouGov that showed Brown's popularity still dropping. The Indy poll had great news for the Tories - apprently we now lead Labour in the North!
Pensioners for Gordon
You are silly Ted I only/read quote those polls that I like.
Pensioners for Gordon and Happy Pensioner, you presumably aren't struggling to pay your council tax like most pensioners here in the South East or you wouldn't be the big fans of Mr Brown that you are.
You don't even appear to be angry about Gordon and his government's massive, tax free pensions, or the elitist pension deals he's given to the public services - courtesy of cutting pensions to hard working private sector workers and to unjust increases in our council and income tax.
If you are pensioners and not nulab trolls, you either live in low council tax areas outside of England or the South east, or you're on fat cat politicians' or high ranking public service style pensions, in which case, little wonder then you support Brown and nulab.
Peter from Putney said...
You seriously understate the pensions
You actually read "Colin above" fibber.
What, what, what!
I am your Emperor! Bow before me!
There is no escape from The Broone!
pensioner rule o.k. 12.47
I like to use olde English from time to time in the vain hope that it makes me sound less stupid than I am. Clearly you have rumbled me...
However, cast your mind back as far as the fall of Margaret Thatcher. It was marginal seat Conservative MPs - her "little people" that put the knife in to her, fearing that the backlash against the Poll Tax would lose them their seats.
MPs - little and big alike - are interested in self-preservation at any cost.
Auntie Flo' Pensioners for Gordon and Happy Pensioner, you presumably aren't struggling to pay your council tax.
I am indeed struggling and I put that down to the Thatcher years, hope you remember what she and hers did to the old age pension Flo'.The trouble with all parties and that goes for both Labour and Tory is that their supporters forget what their crowd did when they were in power.Voters are silly you know that's why we vote, and in the end it makes no difference all politicians are the same,power and wealth is all they desire.
pensioner rule o.k. 12.47 MPs - little and big alike - are interested in self-preservation at any cost.
Agreed see my posting below " poor pensioner"
How does this work as a human sacrifice, I can well believe New Labour spend most of their time behind closed doors in their underpants chanting things like "more money for consultancies, screw the poor!" to a giant idol of Tony Blair's grinning spiv face, while the 'outer' Labour party wonder around in their underpants looking for food, but what is the logic of a pagan sacrifice of Miliboy to the Blair idol?
How does this work as a human sacrifice,
Don't ask me mate haven't a clue what you are rabbiting on about.
pensioners for gordon said...
We are indeed, but certainly not desperate we have all come over from Guidos'....
pensioners for gordon and happy pensioner are sock puppets of the Brownite stooge who calls himself mike. The silly fellow was boasting about it on here just last week.
Brown's chances of winning the next GE or even of taking over from Blair just took a nosedive with the news of this pensions scandal. No wonder Brown's stooges are running scared.
Whisper it softly, but Blair and his people are in discussion right now over whether they can get away with sacking Brown for knowingly screwing up pensions.
There are many pro labour on this site.
I'm neither Labour nor conservative
But I'll say this, Brown should be tried for treason, on his oath he swore to look after the people and the nation, he failed due to sheer ruthlessness and he and the others did it deliberately. (Better to have a few millionaire supporters than a few million paupers)
He stole the pensions, put up taxes, ruined the NHS and deliberately, so that he could compromise the UK in order to bullshit the public that we need to join the EU because the economy will colapse.. All pre arranged before 1997 by the EU and its think tanks.(golden handshake waiting for him and the rest of the parliamentry comrandes - all parties).
He is a liar and a thief. He not only sold off the gold reserves to pay for his incompetence, he decided to publish the fact and reduce the value of gold into the bargain.. At which point all MP's and MEP's accounts and finances should have been investigated, because that was deliberate and fraudulently carried out!
Take a look at his performance with the committee for the Budget, his sheer arrogance and psycotic behaviour should leave non in doubt that this man belongs in a mental institution... More worryingly though is the fact that he has so many supporters.. If they think his behaviour is normal then god help the bloody lot of us!
Gordon Brown is an unprincipled shyster, control freak, and crook who is totally unfit to hold high office.
He should be booted out of Parliament now before he is able to inflict more damage on the people of Britain.
the dark horse said...pensioners for gordon and happy pensioner are sock puppets of the Brownite stooge who calls himself mike.
True I have been rumbled, me and my big mouth.However just a quick post in my defence,I loath Blair/Brown/Blunkett and all,they have destroyed all that was good in this country,they have lied and betrayed us all for their ambition.The world is in a perilous state because of their meddling.The reason I post is because I enjoy taking the Micky and I am indeed an old age pensioner with time on his hands. If you pop over to Guidos' you will see that they certainly give as good as I give and more one of the posters threatened to pull my toenails out,bless him.I think your man is in with a good chance of winning if he gets the support he deserves I like Cameron, just hope you do we need a change.
“Browns Reputation is Unravelling”
Just a quick reminder of this threads title for all the Brown supporting anonymongs here.
78+ comments posted and I can’t see a single one that has refuted this statement, no evidence quoted, no links provided and no reasoned argument to the contrary, just childish insults and nonsense. And you seriously think this will achieve what exactly?
Jess The Dog said...
... reliance on supposedly "off-balance sheet" PPP and PFI are more reminiscent ..."
To me it's more reminiscent of ENRON.
That ludicrous horse faced kapo and paid liar Beckett may have tried to intimidate him but I suspect that Miliband is today seriously considering taking on the rapidly fading Brown for the leadership.
With more dirt, incompetence and crookedness still to be revealed about Brown it looks like Miliband could build up a good head of steam over coming months.
Blair will be making some rather critical comments this week about Brown and his pillaging of the pension funds I hear.
Brown's star is on the wane.
So lets get this straight then,Gordo has the financial acumen of the ENRON
board,the electoral skills of neil kinnock and the personal habbits of a drunken student.so he is the best labour have got ??
poor pensioner said...
I am indeed struggling and I put that down to the Thatcher years, hope you remember what she and hers did to the old age pension ...in the end it makes no difference all politicians are the same,power and wealth is all they desire.
You're right, politicians largely look after themselves, not us. The longer they're in power, the more arrogant and corrupt they become, even those with initial good intentions. And this government seem to have taken arrogance and corruption to higher levels than ever before.
But that's surely why we must have a change in governing party every few years, in order to bring these greedy fat cats down to earth with a bump and remind them that this is a democracy.
The gold reserves thing is worse than incompetent - it was crass market making. If I dumped that much gold on the world market the regulators would be trying to pull my licenses.
It also managed to piss off all the gold producing countries - especially South Africa.
So, apart from losing billions, good plan all round.
Pension funds were locked down after Maxwell's swimming gala. The .bomb didn't help, but the point about investment is the long term average. The stocks didn't vanish (99%) - they went down. Hang on to them long term - guess what?
Brown started taking money out of the growth cycle. To understand how stupid this was, try doing compound interest caclulations...
The other act of chronic stupidity was the 3G license auction - designed to maximise revenue, not to maximise public good. In the end the government lost money and people lost jobs because of short term greed by Brown. The latest facet of that saga is that the new WiMax standard is being crippled - if used for VoIP it would kill the 3G market overnight.
Good point. There are lots of Brownites reading this blog and contributing. Why doesn't one of you give us a properly reasoned argument as to why Brown acted properly in his treatment of the occupational pension funds? No vitriol, no rhetoric, just facts and reason.
The floor is yours.
Good point. There are lots of Brownites reading this blog....
I doubt there are "lots of Brownites", more likely just one or two posting under different names or anon.
You're not going to get any sense out of any Brownite today anyway(look at the tripe Balls is coming out with)
Brown has been caught BANG TO RIGHTS having deliberately destroyed the best pension system in Europe and turned it into one of the worst.
He and his supporters are now running scared as they await with trepidation the reactions to this sordid business.
A few years ago cowardly, dishonest Brown was openly crapping himself having been caught lying. He knows he's in a far worse position today.
Good day for the Treasury. It just shows that any goodness in Government is their doing and has nothing to so with that pea-brained dour scottish twat Gordon Brown.
Roll on May - roll off Gordon.
Beckett giving advice to Milliband, obviously not got much on this week at the FO !
Mr Gordon Brown will be proved to be the best Chancellor the UK has ever had.His fiscal acumen will be unmatched for millenia.Leave him alone!
Why has the Foreign Secretary got time to offer advice on the leadership during what is fast becoming a major diplomatic incident in Iran???
BBC Headline:'Treasury rejects attack on Brown'.Well,they would say that anyway.
Perhaps Beckett is angling for the Chancellorship.She's never liked her Foreign Office gig.No time for caravaning.
I've just read that Harlow is to be rebranded at a cost to council tax payers of £80,000. Why? Why replace a perfectly good Peace Dove logo - which itself was introduced at great cost just a few years ago - with a few, nondescript wavy lines?
What sickening waste from the LA which squandered £100,000 on an irrigation scheme for a mundane town centre roundabout not so long ago and God knows how much on swimming pool tubes which don't work or town twinning schemes which gave councillors nice little hols.
Well, that's egocentric, power mad nulab for you, our money is just an excuse for them to get their jollies off at our expense.
Having their jollies off? I've heard that applies to a large Scottish gent on the Defence team, spied getting astonishingly close to the hired help in his office this week!
Hmmm...the problem with trying to say that the leadership change can affect perception of problems like pensions / the iraq war / law and order is that with very few exceptions ALL the potential deputy or leadership candidates voted for ALL of these policies. It is all very well trying to stick the blame for pensions onto 'El Gordo' Brown, but all the cabinet ministers on that side voted for that , and successive, budget decisions.
Over Iraq, most of the MPs backed the war. The few that didn't are either no longer with us [Robin Cook] or have joined the opposition benches [Clare 'Bomber' Short].
These things may affect voting at the General Election, but I don't really think it will swing the succession one way or another..
Cowardly Brown knew the Times was going to break this pensions story today hence his trip abroad.
He could teach John Major a thing or two about going AWOL when the shit's hitting the fan.
Doesn't really suggest Prime Ministerial material though does it?
I thought about posting first thing this morning and I'm glad I didn't.
What we've got here is a perfect illustration of what happens where a damaging story gets through the net: supposed anonymongs protesting that while they're no fans of the minister in question they doubt the story because it's probably a Daily Mail put up job. And anyway those City fatcats are much bigger thieves etc, etc, etc.
This can't be the work of the dear old rebuttal types because even they couldn't be so dim-witted as to assume that such a transparent tactic would work (then again, the bunker mentality justifies anything these days).
The anonymongs also conveniently forget to mention that some experts estimate the impact of this notorious move has been significantly WORSE than the original estimates.
For the record, it wasn't just Treasury Civil Servants who warned that there were significant risks associated with the abolition of ACT relief. Tony Blair himself told Brown that he disagreed but that it was his decision.
Yes, weaker stock markets and greater longevity have made a major contribution to the pensions crisis, but no one should under-estimate the impact of the fatal combination of intellectual arrogance and political tunnel vision that allowed Brown to bring this mess about.
A disaster, and one even those pathetic anonymongs will one day live to regret.
Judging by the number of "pensioners" leaving comments on this blog (and nearly 100 comments in total at the time of writing) it's clear that the pensions fiasco Gordon Brown precipitated nearly ten years ago has finally come back to bite him.
As someone who is in his mid-forties, I have enough time to offset the damage he has caused.
I'm lucky - all those "pensioners" who were careful, who saved, who did without so they would never be a burden - have been well and truly ripped off by this government. You deserve to feel bitter and cheated.
Unfortunately, most politicians casually disregard the "grey vote", believing that people will vote the same way they have always voted, once they pass retirement age.
Any party that promises to reverse the damage this ghastly man has done, would deservedly capture a large share of this "grey vote."
And today's pensioners are from a generation that has always cast a vote.
In these low-turnout times, politicians who ignore pensioner power deserve what's coming to them.
No suggestion yet that the Milliners helped the FOI disclosure process along so that they story appeared at just the right time for them.
Nor that on Budget morning they dosed the Chancellor's porridge with the dread _Clostridium bogifax_, which causes uncontrollable nasal crusting.
I think we should be told.
It's not just pensioners who have been screwed by Brown's tax grab it's millions of people of all ages currently working whose final salary pension schemes have been destroyed largely as a result of Brown's actions 10 years ago. The money they receive when they retire will be a tiny fraction of what they should have got before Bronw robbed them.
There should be a bounty on that robbing bastard's head and Blair should bite the bullet and sack him this week.
disgusted with Gordon - there is a 'pop record' by a certain popular contemporary beat combo with the title 'Absent With Out Leave'.
I shall try and find it, and maybe Mr T. Spark can work his magic on it..
How hard is it to ban a few IP addresses,
trolls on this thread:
pensioners rule ok
anonymous 1:48-1:49 (same person I think)
pensioners for gordon
I'm sure he's a hilarious internet warrior in his own mind
given the criminal irresponsiblity of his actions, why is Brown entitled to keep his massive, tax free pension?
Are we going to allow this crook, who steamrollered over the advice he was given regarding the huge damage his tax grab would do to pension funds, pensioners and companies, to walk off with an immediate, tax free golden hand shake and an elitist, tax free pension for life? Why should e pay for this criminally insane state of affairs?
Politicians should not be immune from suffering a detriment when their self-serving actions prove as disastrous as Brown's have. Can we not confiscate his pension pot?
How hard is it to ban a few IP addresses,
trolls on this thread:
You are a little late a full confession was made see posting mike 4:38 PM
Ed Balls said, 'we deciced on the advice of the civil service to go ahead....' So we have been screwed then.
"If you pop over to Guidos' you will see that they certainly give as good as I give and more one of the posters threatened to pull my toenails out,bless him."
Actually I said (in jest) that I hoped somebody would remove them. Unless I'm confusing you with soneone else.
Gordon Brown has deliberately screwed up the lives of millions of working people in this country and condemned them to a lifetime of poverty and going begging to the authorities for a few means tested handouts when they would have had a decent pension if he hadn't destroyed it.
The man is a bloody disgrace, he should be sacked immediately for this piece of crookedness and vandalism and then be made to account for his plundering live on TV in front of an audience of people who's pension schemes he has destroyed.
I hope the opposition parties are going to hold him to account for what he has done. The Tories and LiDems (and the unions) should be screaming blue murder over this, it's bloody outrageous.
I hope to see him getting verbally crucified this week by the opposition, the media, pensioner's groups, Help the Aged, the unions etc.
Come on Osborne, go in for the kill.
There will only be 2 types of voters in England come the next election.
1) Those that despise Gordon Brown
2) Those who are paid not to despise him
As a matter of interest, can anyone remember whether our "esteemed" chancellor launched his grab for our pensions during the same budget he awarded an 87p increase in the state pension?
Brown ahs no mandate in England, simple as that really!.
no longer anonymous said...Actually I said (in jest) that I hoped somebody would remove them. Unless I'm confusing you with someone else.
No that was me I believe at the time I was posting as a "True Tory Voter" nice to see you again,well I hope.
From A Very British Dude back in February:
"Basically, the presbyterian shit has spent your income, your savings, the country's savings and re-leveraged the country imprudently, meaning you'll have to pay more in future without giving any noticable improvement in peoples' wealth or quality of life. God, I hate him so, very, very much."
I still can't add much to that.
So bruun used a punative tax on pensions for social engineering on a grand scale to keep zanulabour in power. this man is scum and has been rumbled. Now go home to scotland and sulk forever.the WORST PM we never had.
The destruction of the pension system is far from the only outrage Brown has perpetrated on the British people.
His so-called "economic miracle" is actually based on debt-fuelled spending, largely on foreign imports which has now left us with:
1) a growing record trade deficit,
2) record public debt approaching £600billion (not including hundreds of billions in PFI and public sector pension deficits)
3) record private debt of £1.3trillion and growing
4) a massive house price bubble which is soon to burst leaving millions in negative equity
5) massive and growing unemployment fiddled by the statistics which put millions down as "sick" or "in training"
5) growing numbers of bankruptcies, repossessions, and liquidations
All this points to one thing only: stagflation, which is a deadly mix of rising inflation within a deteriorating economy. We are heading for a huge recession or even depression followed by years of stagnation and even deflation.
You can thank profligate Brown for most of this, he will go down as probably the worst and most irresponsible Chancellor in history. The living standards of most of us are going to take a big hit and it's largely down to him.
no longer anonymous said...Actually I said (in jest) that I hoped somebody would remove them.
Sorry I should have checked my facts before my last posting what you said was "I hope someone rips your fingernails out" and I posted as "true tory",I am pleased your remark was said in jest although having viewed it again I feel it was a nasty thing to say.
Anonymous said...7:30 PM
How hard is it to ban a few IP addresses,
trolls on this thread:
You would decide who to ban and who to allow would you ? Who gave you that right ? Iain could, but then what would be the point of this blog only allowing folk to post, who said what you wanted to hear.You really haven't thought it through have you ?
I think it´s worth remembering where the idea for the ACT grab came from. Gordo wasn't clever enough to think it up himself but was desperate to find a way to pay for the pointless New Start (or was it New Deal) scheme: so as usual a highly paid consultant (D.l.i.t.s) trousered a mint to come up with this disastrous idea.
I do not have the power to ban IP addresses even if I wanted to. You can do this on Wordpress blogs but not Blogger.
The rules stuffed Pension schemes
but a little written about side effect of the Pension raid is the relative valuations of UK equities
- UK companies are now undervalued - leaving huge numbers open to takeover from overseas companies
the list is endless but here's a few:
BAA, BOC, P&O, Shell T&T (moved tax HQ to Holland), Cellnet, Allied Domeq, RMC, Redland, Blue Circle, Orange
all no longer controlled, managed AND PAYING TAX in the UK because of guppy's genius at not being able to understand economics.
Iain Dale said...
I do not have the power to ban IP addresses even if I wanted to.
And would you want to ?
iain dale 9.27 pm said:
"I do not have the power to ban IP addresses even if I wanted to. You can do this on Wordpress blogs but not Blogger."
Phew - that's a relief!
It would be awful if the four bloggers who are posting on Iain's blog were exposed under all of our various personae...
anonymous x 6 said...
iain dale 9.27 pm said:It would be awful if the four bloggers who are posting on Iain's blog were exposed under all of our various personae...
I thought it was only me and all the time I had friends I was not aware of.
Er, like Gordon didn't know? It is these guys job to document the pros (yes there were some) and cons of potential decisions. Then some great clunking fist has to make them.
Do you really think government is so easy you can possibly please all the people all the time.
And partial bloody reporting all the time. I'd guess that any options appraisal would rate all serious options with their upsides and their down. Where is the balance? We don't expect it from Guido, but this is IDD.
It would seem he certainly knew but went full speed ahead regardless.
Read what i think here.
some serious points about what this kind of thread does to the reputation of blogging.
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