Tuesday, November 10, 2009

This Pseudo-Fascist Plan Must be Scrapped

I really shouldn't find this at all amusing, but am I alone in seeing the irony of the fact that the day after the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall, the British government announces it is determined to press ahead with the creation of databases which will record every phone call we make, every text we send, every email we write and every website we visit?

The day after politicians of all parties tell us how important freedom is, and we are expected to welcome something which is the biggest intrusion by th state into our private lives since, well, the demise of the Stasi. All in the name of security, of course. It's for our own good. Bollocks is it.

And all this information will be accessed by hundreds of different public authorities, not just by the security services. And cost £2 billion a year to run.

Thankfully a general election will intervene before these madcap pseudo-fascist plans can be put into effect.

We need an unequivocal assurance from Her Majesty's Opposition that this whole scheme will be scrapped. In the name of freedom.

81 comments:

Michaela said...

Mind your language, Iain.No need for swearing and my son logs onto this site

Michaela said...

Mind your language, Iain.No need for swearing and my son logs onto this site

jbw said...

I think I have some software, lurking on the hard drive, that automatically adds key words to an e-mail and which will raise raise flags with any security service. So lets drown the buggers in so much noise that this becomes a self defeating exercise.

Guy said...

Not creation, Iain, expansion.

ISPs and Telcos are already obliged by regulation (of earlier this year) to keep all details of calls, texts, web-use, and email, for a year, in prescribed form available for inspection by public authorities (self authorised, under powers created in 2001, and extended to hundreds of bodies in 2004). The Home Office pushed the Data Retention Directive through, taking advantage of the July 2005 bombings to get Charles Clarke to pound the table at the Council of Interior Ministers in Gateshead in July 2005, so that it could get this without parliamentary scrutiny. What's now proposed is centralisation of control of the interception and datacollection, so that the authorisation is easier and overseen by the Home Office, and an expansion of the effective power to collect information from skype, instant messaging, web scripts/searches and social networking applications by using deep packet inspection techniques.

Bill said...

No you are not alone at all Iain in seeing the irony. Unlike the former Warsaw Pact countries, we are far less free today than we were during the height of the Cold War. The cultural Marxists have won.

Half The Story said...

1984 was their instruction manual, their legacy is a scorched earth devoid of liberties.

JuliaM said...

Why 'pseudo-fascist'? Why not call it what it is?

Sean Haffey said...

I have been dismayed by the feeble statements by both Chris Grayling and David Davis on this in The Telegraph today.

Davis is particular simply talks about safeguards.

This is a truly appalling attack on liberty and democracy. Tories should be saying unequivocally it will be thrown out.

It appears that the only time that our MPs get worked up about liberty is when their own is threatened. There has been a shameful record of inaction in the face of Labour's intrusion on individual freedom, particularly this decade.

Road_Hog said...

My concern is that a Conservative government will just carry on with these plans.

The are a number of other plans in the pipeline, plus some that are worldwide, particularly monitoring the technology side, such ACTA internet charter which could well affect bloggers and yesterday Spain switched off all pre-pay mobile phones that hadn't been registered with the details of the user.

All these things are done in the name of terrorism but terrorists easily skip around them. They are then used to monitor and control the ordinary public. You only need to look at the misuse of RIPA by councils and local authority to see how these powers can be abused.

Angry Old Man said...

Iain, it is not a Pseudo-Fascist Plan but a Communist (Socialist) plan. Just New Labour going back to it's root's.

sjbaker said...

Quite right Iain.

titus-aduxas said...

It just goes to show that the close connections with the USSR and the KGB have not withered over the years and are as strong as ever.

Time to blast this pseudo-communist wannabe dictatorship into the history books.

Chief of the Inner Station said...

Too late, Iain. You should have been paying more attention to what our EU masters have been up to.

This database is just an expensive Labour add-on to the already existing requirement to spy on us enforced by Directive 2006/24/EC.

As you know, EU law is superior to UK law, so automatic surveillance of all our phone and internet use is already being put in place, whatever happens.

One wall comes down, another goes up.

Scan said...

Iain,

I totally agree, and if it weren't so scary it'd be funny. Will Cameron definitely not press ahead with them though?

Rebel Saint said...

The state is no longer our servant but our master.

Yesterday we discover that a parent was secretly followed home because she told her misbehaving children that they would get a hiding if they continued. Her name is now on the child protection register. No crime committed. No evidence that she actually did anything. No corroboration. No jury. No chance for redress. If she now needs a job which requires an ISA check she most likely be refused it.

There is also the Contact Point database, that will record everything about every child - not just 'facts' but spurious opinions of experts.

Project Echelon doesn't just exist in the imaginations of the creators of the Bourne films ... it's a real covert spying program.

Don't forget we can be detained for 6 weeks without trial. And have your DNA stored indefinitely for no reason other than a police officer suspects you.

We live in a regime that is more intrusive than anything the communists managed to achieve.

Of course, I'm not afraid because I have nothing to hide and the state will always act in my best interests!!!!!!!!!!!! How I despise this government. Only thing is, I'm not convinced the Conservatives will relinquish all the power this information gives them.

killemallletgodsortemout said...

"Thankfully a general election will intervene before these madcap pseudo-fascist plans can be put into effect."


Do you SERIOUSLY think that Cast-Iron Dave's mob would change anything that has been imposed on us by Bliar & Brown?

We're in for more of the same - Cameron is a snake-oil salesman, the same as Blair.

Vote UKIP, BNP, Green - ANYTHING but LibLabCon.

Mulligan said...

Not to mention the black boxes that inevitably we will all have to have installed in our cars (to save the planet innit, syentific CONcensus and all that guff).

davidc said...

a 'cast iron' assurance ?

Anna said...

I can't even begin to express how all this spying incenses me. I don't have to worry about WHAT they may discover, my communications/online life is entirely innocent, unless accessing the likes of Iain Dale's Diary could be considered subversive.
But what the hell business is it of some spotty adolescent in some minor public sector area that I phone/email my daughter to arrange a Sunday lunch?

Rebel Saint said...

Any modicum of sympathy I have for Gordon over the Sun's illegal recording of his telephone conversation simply vanishes with the news that he'll be recording details about every single one of ours.

Stepney said...

This really is the final nail in the coffin of everything this country stands for and has been built upon. The freedoms we've fought for, the rights we're born with.

653 different bodies will have access on the whim of very junior NON-LEGAL officials..

Privacy will be extinct.

The Government has now become an enemy of freedom and democracy every bit as bad as the Soviets or the Nazis.

They cannot be allowed to prevail.

AProlefrom1984 said...

Hmm. Was listening to Jeremy Vine on R2 yesterday asking citizens what was wrong with the old GDR, and when they gave a list of their former state's ills, it struck me how similar we'd become. Hopefully, when you get elected next year as an MP, you can give the voiceless a voice about how scared we really are of these databases. For us and for our kids' sakes.

eddie said...

The prefix pseudo (from Greek ψευδής "lying, false") is used to mark something as false, fraudulent, or pretending to be something it is not.

This is fascism plain and simple - not pseudo-facism.

Paddy Briggs said...

Iain

I'd be very careful using the word "fascist" (pseudo or otherwise) if I was you - much more offensive than the "bollocks" that others have complained about!

And oh how tedious is the hypocritical Tory hand-wringing over enhanced security which protects us all. And the claim that they are the guardians of freedom - now that really is bollocks! As with ID cards there is no loss of liberty in these measures (rather the contraray) and law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Which wasn't the case in really fascist States you might recall!

kasou said...

suspected terrorist, they are freed with a money handshake and maybe a home to import their friends and family...WTG Liebor, more votes.

Watch out for the Forces abroad not getting a chance to vote... remeber Liebor have form on tis.

arthurgreenwood said...

Fascist? Communist? Why not totalitarian?

On the other hand, what have you got to hide?

psychotrader said...

you mean they don't do that stuff already???!!!

Victor, NW Kent said...

psychotrader

The government almost certainly does this already. What they are now after is an Act that legitimises their cover spying as if RIPA was not sufficient of a catch-all.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

How easy is it going to be to go beyond the boundaries of these laws?

As easy as it was to detain Walter Wolfgang.

Ever made a remark in an email to a friend that could be used by the thought police to get you into trouble?

Let us just remember that it took the powers of the judiciary to interfere with Her Majesty's Mail, interception of which was considered a very serious matter. So now, some nasty, angry, vengeful little prick will surf your mail with a view to getting you for some slip of the tongue, some innuendo, some off-colour remark that is now banned by those who determine what you can and cannot say.

We are certainly in Walter Wolfgang territory.

Trying to get your kid into the "good" school? Watch out!

Library books overdue? Watch out!

Churchgoer? Watch out!

Written a letter of complaint to the Council? Watch out!

Got a neighbour with a grudge against you? Watch out!

Ever communicated with the BNP - even to complain about them? Watch out!

Ever visited a dodgy web site? Watch out!

Ever written that Members of the Government should be hung from lamp posts?

This is not fake anything. This is real. This is the real nightmare state that even George Orwell could not imagine.

The only solution, and someone alluded to it earlier, is to bombard the authorities with obfuscating data. If a national campaign was run to add key words to every communication, the system would crash.

Mike said...

The Tories must make fighting this Orwellian nightmare the central plank of their election strategy.

Cut taxes; make the work-shy work for their benefits and return our freedoms.

Dave should walk it!

Anna said...

"We need an unequivocal assurance from Her Majesty's Opposition that this whole scheme will be scrapped. In the name of freedom."

On reflection, that is part of the problem. Her Majesty's Opposition is being rather equivocal. It doesn't go full throttle at this destruction of civil liberty, and promise to repeal, it says things like "we will review and improve this" in many areas that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Governments don't relinquish existing powers. Her Majesty's Opposition says it will dump ID cards, it doesn't say it will dump the database that underpins them. HMO says it will dump the NHS Spine and let Google or Microsoft handle our health records. Anything less trustworthy than those two would be hard to imagine. HMO says it will 'review and improve' the Contact Database which shouldn't exist in the first place, and the DNA database containing profiles of thousands of innocent people & children, and any number of other foul Labour databases.

Her Majesty's Opposition is hedging its bets. I would like to think that it genuinely wants to abolish this stuff, but I don't believe it will.

Chris said...

Watching a repeat of "Absolute Power" the other night, the female Home Secretary admitted that the Government weren't in favour of ID Cards but were being pressed by the Secret Service and MI5. Otherwise they would reval how big a sham the Hutton report was.

One does wonder how much of this was fiction but the premis seems credible.

That being the case it does beg the question, will a Cameron Government be forced to go along with the quasi fascist ideas of the Securicrats in a smilar way

VotR said...

Hear, hear, Iain.

And I hope people type "Labour are fascist communists" into google search-bars hourly and daily for the governments' spying and reading pleasure. I am sure they will get the message.

Roger Thornhill said...

This is a Fencepost.

The lack of resolve from the Tories shows they will almost certainly continue this gross infringement of our freedoms and privacy. Voting in the Tories will be even less dramatic than swapping Ariel for Persil or an Austin for a Morris.

Telcos keeping information is bad enough, but at least there is a threshold to cross and one would hope a warrant to issue. Once the data sits within the State's machines and on their hard drives, any prod-nosed functionary can get sifting and fishing. Forget passwords or security, that can be breached using a brown envelope (or is that a "Brown envelope"?) so that our private lives will be cherry picked and taken out of context so that the innocent is branded guilty and where all but the elite will not have the resources to fight and clear their name.

They say eavesdroppers hear no good for themselves. The State better be prepared for a world of hurt.

p.s. One wonders if there is an EU "directive" behind it.

Mike Law said...

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom.
It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." = William Pitt 18 November 1783 - how apt!

Fergus Pickering said...

Paddy Briggs, you are undoubtedly a fascist pig.

Cazzy Jones said...

And while this plan turns up at the front door, this one threatens to tiptoe in through the back door and curtail more freedom. Not quite as serious as 24/7 electronic surveillance, but still symbolic.

Paddy Briggs said...

Fergus Pickering

Thank you for raising the tone and level of this debate by your thoughtful and elegant post.

The Purpleline said...

The problem is Iain and you, the media and the political class have not understood that the fall in the Berlin Wall was just one win in the battle in the war against communism and socialist ideology.

What really happened, the wall came down; we celebrated the end of the cold war prematurely and dropped our guard in the fight against communism and socialism of the extreme totalitarian left.

I believe the war ideological war continues and the west was flooded with socialist and communist insurgents that have shaped and changed the west over the last twenty years. The EU and UK in particular has seen the rights of the people squashed, the UK has more draconian laws and watchers than the old East Germany. Where did the Stasi go, not one arrested, well they went and infiltrated the west in seminars and collected left wing socialists to their cause for the Common purpose.

To prove my case you just need to look at the US where we have the president a devout socialist, creating a socialist dream of a national health service. Through welfare and health the left control, us, by making everyone a dependent on the state, they have gained more and more control over us.

Do not be surprised if the EU allows Russia entry in the coming, years and the take over will be complete. Once Russia achieves WTO status and makes some cosmetic changes, our socialist masters in the EU will welcome them. In fact, I will go out on a limb and say Russia will be granted entry before Turkey.

Old Holborn said...

The Soviet Bloc was not defeated when the wall fell. They have just moved the HQ to Brussels.

Hyperbole?

Name the country (clue: It's not the DDR)

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
You can be put in prison for 42 days on pure suspicion
You can be put in prison indefinitely without charge on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
The media is controlled by the State
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.
166 "Authorities" can now legally enter your home.

freddo41 said...

"But what the hell business is it of some spotty adolescent in some minor public sector area that I phone/email my daughter to arrange a Sunday lunch?"

But if it saves the job of just one drone, surely it's worth it.

Jason Myers said...

Another example of Labour spending money we do not have! Cameron has proposed much needed cuts and sooner we make them the sooner our debt will fall. Clear decision at the next election: Brown's big government, spending money our grandkids will have to pay back in higher taxes or Cameron's modest but realistic plans to get Britain back on track. Why waste 2 billion on something most of the public do not want?

ukipwebmaster said...

"We need an unequivocal assurance from Her Majesty's Opposition that this whole scheme will be scrapped. In the name of freedom"

Sort of like a cast iron guarantee?

;-)

Bryan Dunleavy said...

You are far from being alone in thinking this as I noted in yesterday's blog http://thoughtmantle.blogspot.com/2009/11/fall-of-wall.html
The big question is what can we do about it when virtually very institution that might have raised the flag has been stripped of power?

Frugal Dougal said...

Personally, the only word I disagree with in Iain's post is "pseudo".

Old Slaughter said...

What are the equivalent rules across the rest of the continent I wonder?

Are we the only ones doing this?

An important question I feel.

Katey said...

Well said Iain..

Unsworth said...

@ Fergus Pickering

Precisely. And anyone who believes that 'enhanced security (which) protects us all' is a moronic facist pig. This is damn all to do with security - and everything to do with draconian control.

Fausty said...

Why is Conservative Harrow Council hiring snoopers, if it is so opposed to our surveillance society?

It has 2000 for every 100 residents.

The plan rolls out this week.

Given that the database state originates from the EU, this move by Harrow (and other councils) puts further in doubt Cameron's EU 'scepticism'.

Chris Paul said...

You cover this as if Jack Straw and Alan Johnson will be able to tune in at any time. It is an interesting issue of course but mobile phone activity and indeed call records have been used to deal with much violent gangster terror crime for quite some time. Police etc still need to get warrants etc as for old school technologies like landlines where all this stuff is of course already kept.

Tory front bench are silent on this because essentially they understand the problem and don't wish for technologies to allow criminals etc to escape detection, arrest, conviction.

Grayling's outburst re Moss Side was exposed today. Two lethal shootings in one shift in Baltimore and 234 in a year. Nothing at all in Moss Side. But the technology you are discussing and dismissing is essentially that being used in Baltimore The Wire to disrupt murderous gangs.

What on earth is your problem with that? If records aren't kept for some time they cannot be mined when their relevance to serious crime investigations becomes apparent.

Windsor Tripehound said...

Paddy Briggs said...

As with ID cards there is no loss of liberty in these measures (rather the contrary) and law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear...


Good grief! If the last 12 years have taught us anything, it is that such a database (a) will not be secure and (b) will be misused by government - all for our own good, you understand.

I'm astounded that Briggs can regurgitate such tripe.

ukipwebmaster said...

While we're at it what would a Tory government do about this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/philipjohnston/6528811/EU-reform-that-sweeps-British-justice-aside.html

Road_Hog said...

And no doubt some of us must come under the banner of domestic extremists, so I imagine you get added to this database.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/25/police-domestic-extremists-database

Paddy Briggs said...

Unsworth

I wonder about blog contributors like you who think that their argument is enhanced by gratuitous insults. Adding "moronic" to Pickering's "fascist pig" may make you feel better - but it hardly advances the artgument much does it?

Twig said...

Will the pseudo Conservatives save us from the pseudo fascists?

I don't think so.


Anyway, the Indie says it's all been kicked into the long grass.

So nothing to worry about then.

Nigel said...

Chris Paul,

>>Grayling's outburst re Moss Side was exposed today. Two lethal shootings in one shift in Baltimore and 234 in a year. Nothing at all in Moss Side. But the technology you are discussing and dismissing is essentially that being used in Baltimore The Wire to disrupt murderous gangs...<<

Not only do you contradict yourself - if we're not Baltimore, what is the relevance of "the technology used in The Wire" - but you also display ignorance.
The kind of databases Iain is complaining about go way beyond anything in The Wire (where the police were continually going before judges to get permission for surveillance).

One of the nice things about the US is that they have a legislature more or less independent from the executive.
The (Democrat controlled) Senate in the US has just passed legislation - The State Secret Protection Act of 2009 - which regulates and limits the President's ability to use "state secrets privilege", despite the opposition of a Democrat President.

I wouldn't for a moment claim that the US system is perfect, but they do have constitutional checks and balances absent in this country.

Unsworth said...

@ Paddy Briggs

I'm not in the business of advancing arguments here. There's no argument to be had. You've started from the eminently crass position of 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear'.

I'd simply ask what the hell business is it of these people? Why is there a presumption of guilt on their part? Why should my right to privacy be arbitrarily and insupportably swept aside?

Where is the real evidence that such massive snooping actually reduces crime etc, anyway? Have we not seen a real increase in crime - despite this pathetic government's careful and deliberate massaging of figures? Are the jails not full to overflowing, despite 'community service' (and God knows what that might really mean)?

You, presumably, have a blind faith that each and every one of these agents who will have access to this private information will be completely honourable and superbly competent. How stunning.

No, this whole security charabanc is being driven by the control-freak nutters in our society. The sooner they are all taken out and put up against the wall the better. And those who support them should follow shortly thereafter.

Sure, I've got nothing to hide - but that's none of your damn business - or anyone else, for that matter. You want to know something about me? Ask me, and put up your justification for asking. Otherwise, just piss off.

dan said...

If this goes ahead you can bet it will soon be costing a lot more than £2bn a year. Collating and processing vast amounts of realtime data from all those different operators would be an intractable task for Google, let alone our security services. The police are living in a dreamworld. More money down the pan for no extra security.

Mirtha Tidville said...

It may have been kicked into the grass until the election but whats the betting `Dismal Dave` brings it back?....

Mr. Musicology said...

My issue with tory politics as you:

A: want to be the high and mighty authority on "crime", "thugs" and controlling anti social behaviour and drugs.

B: seem to object totally to the police taking measures to do this.

So you are permanently in a position where you are criticising the system, and thugs on the rampage, yet you are the same people blocking things that would be putting criminals in prison.

Isn't it just the fact that "shouting out against our criminal society" is just your little ideological little place, and you actually don't want crime controlled.

You'd rather be the outraged voter.

Mr. Musicology said...

Isn't the more accurate opinion that the tory party and it's voters just enjoy being the outraged moral compass of society, and don't really want an end to crime, thuggary and anti social behaviour?

As in, surely CCTV and things like that make it pretty impossible for thugs to commit crime without concequence?

As I said - the tories position on crime is ideological.

They just have principles. They don't actually want anyone to act on them

Old Slaughter said...

Chris Paul,

I think today's rebuke of Grayling has been a little bit poor. You said:

"Grayling's outburst re Moss Side was exposed today. Two lethal shootings in one shift in Baltimore and 234 in a year. Nothing at all in Moss Side. But the technology you are discussing and dismissing is essentially that being used in Baltimore The Wire to disrupt murderous gangs."

Firstly the Tories are not campaigning against the technology so that does not take away from anything Mr Grayling said. Not relevant.
Secondly if the Wire was about murder rates, or even murder, then your stats would be damning. If however one considers the Wire to be about the nature of institutions and the corrupting influences upon their effectiveness.
The nature of targets, political correctness and PR are very much part of the Wire. Crappy schools, a police force with poor leadership priorities having to swallow politically motivated directives. These are all things which are relevant to our inner-city problems today.
As an example, I think the effects of the police having to react as a primary directive to a public event or cause, such as the McPherson report, rather than focus on more traditional criminal concerns are provided some analysis in the program.
For that reason I think it appropriate for Mr Grayling to make that comparison. It might just be about body count though.

Mr. Musicology said...

I was assaulted 6 months ago. The thug was caught, 3 months after th event, as a result of CCTV and DNA - after he commited another crime.

He's now in prison.

Stop talking rubbish. Tough on crime is doing everything in your power to put criminals in prison.

Not just being "permanently outraged" on the subject.

Waving your fists, and doing nothing

Twig said...

@Mirtha Tidville
It may have been kicked into the grass until the election but whats the betting `Dismal Dave` brings it back?....

Cameron will do whatever his EU masters tell him to do.

Gareth said...

"Iain

I'd be very careful using the word "fascist" (pseudo or otherwise) if I was you - much more offensive than the "bollocks" that others have complained about!

And oh how tedious is the hypocritical Tory hand-wringing over enhanced security which protects us all. And the claim that they are the guardians of freedom - now that really is bollocks! As with ID cards there is no loss of liberty in these measures (rather the contraray) and law-abiding citizens have nothing to fear. Which wasn't the case in really fascist States you might recall!"

Paddy,

In what way will ID cards increase our liberty over not having them? That is illogical.

The 'enhanced security' is not pro-active. It will be used after incidents to look at the trail of communications, browsing and purchases. It is no more useful for preventing a crime than fingerprinting or DNA evidence. People with serious criminal intent already come to the attention of the security services without the need for such draconian legislation and can already be put under pre-emptive surveillance with the due process having been followed. We. Do. Not. Need. This. Legislation. It. Will. Not. Make. Us. Safer.

The key issue with regards to the EU directive behind all this is that the directive insists that each nation state manages the access to and authorisation of the data rentention along their own rules. If the Government wanted to insist data retention could only be done with a warrant it could but they won't because a paranoid security blanket is what they want. Gathering data for the sake of gathering data, as they can't possibly know what they will do with the gigabytes of stuff they will collate, is the hallmark of the Stasi.

The Grim Reaper said...

Michaela said "Mind your language, Iain. No need for swearing..."

████ that ████. With the political situation as it is, there's EVERY ███████ need for obscenities and large ███████ black blocks over the text like in this ██████ post. Besides, if Iain wants to ███████ swear on his ███████ ████ ██████ blog, he can swear as much as he ███████ likes.

As for Cameron, you really place far too much faith on that ███████ ███████ ████. You want an unequivocal reassurance he won't bring this in? You'll be waiting a long time.

Oh, and just for good measure - █████. That is all.

* This post was written by The Grim Reaper and later sent to the Parliamentary Expenses Committee for clearance.

Jabba the Cat said...

What is all this pseudo fascist bollocks Mrs Dale?

This snooping agenda is pure GDU and it's Stasi secret police service, which were wholly communist/socialist organisations.

trevorsden said...

"Fascist? Communist? Why not totalitarian?" --- Our government is becoming increasingly Ruritanian.

Unsworth said...

@ Mr Musicology

"Tough on crime is doing everything in your power to put criminals in prison."

OK, build more jails then - rather than giving out damn silly 'community service' sentences and inexorably reducing the amount of time criminals actually do spend banged up. The only reason we are in this position is that the likes of Brown and Straw have presided over the disaster. Re-offending is on the increase - why?

boggartblog said...

Look on the bright side. Now Labour have shown their true colours the CDonservatives, Lib Dems and UKIP can exploit this to make sure the "people's" part are crushed and reduced to a rump at the election.

Labours Orwellian Tendency

Roger Thornhill said...

@Mr Musicology

maybe you* forget that The Law is there to defend the individual from The State and other malicious sorts including individuals.

Do you need to be quoted the passage from "A Man for All Seasons" about the law?

You can catch as many thugs as you want but if you trample the freedoms of all in the process you have failed.

It is why our magnificent Common Law system secures our innocence until proven guilty in open court and before a jury of our peers, not some faceless State employee. The rapacious information gathering that permits the unskilled to conduct fishing exercises and take events out of context will, de facto, make us guilty until, if, we can prove our innocence.


* along with most of the Government and much of the Opposition.

Cynic said...

This government is corrupt to the core

Now Ofsted have found that it had 'accidentally' concealed evidence from Sharon Shoesmith in the baby P sacking case. So the findings are put on hold but she may win here case because of the way Balls handled this. Whatever she did or didn't do, more and more it looks like she was scape-goated to protect Ministers.

Tachybaptus said...

Way, way off topic, but glorious. I have just received the following spam:

-----

OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER
TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE,
LONDON,UNITED KINGDOM.

Our ref: ATM/13470/IDR
Your ref:...Date: 10/11/2009

IMMEDIATE PAYMENT NOTIFICATION

I am The Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP,Prime Minister British Government. This letter is to
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£2,000,000.00(Two Million, Great British Pounds Sterling).

This office will send to you an Visa/ATM CARD that you will use to withdraw your funds
in any ATM MACHINE CENTER or Visa card outlet in the world with a maximum of £5000 GBP
daily.Further more,You will be required to re-confirm the following information to enable;
The Rt Hon Alistair Darling MP Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs,
begin in processing of your VISA CARD.

(1)Full names: (2)Address: (3)Country: (4)Nationality: (5)Phone #: (6)Age:
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Lord Lavendon said...

Agree with this post ,We need the spirit of the magna carta and not that of the spanish inquisition. We have not fought the tyrant's yoke for centuries only to bring overselves to such a state now.

Thatsnews said...

The slogan that needs to be spread, before such activities is declared illegal, is only three words: "Don't vote Labour."

The Grim Reaper said...

In reply to Tachybaptus...

You can tell that's spam and not a real Gordon Brown letter. A real letter from him would have far more spelling mistakes than that.

iCowboy said...

They also used last night to sleaze the secret inquests bill into law. We've been told to trust Jack Straw that the new legislation will only be used in the most extreme circumstances.

Jan said...

Funny how none of you have said a dicky bird about the Mosquito Anti-Teen Device, a sonic weapon marketed for use against kids based on their age alone. Loved by shop-keepers who just fail to mention that it will distress babies and toddlers the most. Now a version for home use - hey those noisy brats next door in their own garden making noise playing? No problemo!

But of course! These are all yobs or at least the spawn of the drones. No word about banning the device from any freedom-loving politicians, the police in some areas buy and use them. But if it helps stop anti-social behaviour ....

Or how about the Acceptable Behaviour Contract, 19000 of these so far - where kids of 11 have signed not because they knew what they are supposed to have done but because they were told their parents would lose their council tenancy if they didn't. (Fact, I heard th kid say it.)

The rule of law? No, rule by vigilante egged on by gutter media. Mob rule mentality. Kids having to go to court to get curfews struck down as incompatible with our Common Law (never mind the HRA said the judge) but at least 400 such youth curfews still in place.

If you condone any of this and support Iain at the same time, that is hypocrisy and double standards.

Matt Wardman said...

Slightly baffled - the reports I rsead said that it *had* been scrapped = postponed until after the election, which is likely to be the same thing.

Robert said...

How unequivocable was the Conservative promise on the the Lisbon Treaty?

Can we trust cast iron guarantees from the oppostion party?

No referendum, no vote.

Jan said...

Robert

You have a vote. If you want out of Europe, UKIP, (or the BNP@M&S as some call it). Otherwise, we stay in despite all the posturings. We did have a referendum, provided by Labour, whether to stay in or not. The Tories took us in without a referendum. The arguments about national sovereignty, creeping Brussels etc were all rehearsed then. The electorate voted 2/1, I voted No against a Rich Man's Club, I was in the minority and accepted that rather interesting condition of democracy called a majority vote which is said to be the Will of the People thereby. If you can elect a UKIP/BNP government next year, you may get what you want - but beware what else would come with it. Reich Chancellor Griffin? Your vote is the General Election. Soon.