Saturday, June 06, 2009

Video: Dale & Pollard v White



Sky News have just posted this on Boulton & Co.It's extract from last night's paper review featuring Eve Pollard, Michael White and me. It's the bit about Caroline Flint. Unfortunately they haven't included the sparkier extract where discussed Gordon Brown.

56 comments:

nadds said...

Michael White - a complete numpty.

PS Where's politicalbetting.com gone?

Tigertyke said...

Excellent, Iain. Well done.
I never had much time for Michael White - but I didn't realise what a buffoon he really is. The left really have lost it.

Bill d'Sarse said...

I watched this last night (albeit after a quite nice bottle of wine). Michael White is indeed a numpty, he reminded me of Comical Ali attempting to deny rumours of tanks on the outskirts of Baghdad and Eve Pollard seemed out of her depth.

PS Ian, I liked you tie.

Hugh said...

I also back the motion that Michael White is a numpty, but I still don't think "hissy fit" is a sexist term. I'd certainly use it of a man. There are so many other criticisms to be made of him that a dubious charge of sexism seems like a wasted opportunity. I'd like to see the section of you discussing Gordon, though, so please post it if anyone comes up with it.

Ed said...

I came in during the middle of this on Sky last night. I thought you were fantastic, Iain. As a long-term reader I was, in a bizarre way, very proud!

I think you need to be careful with these kinds of accusations though. It's very Guido, and I adore the Guido series on this, but Guido isn't representing a party. He's a freewheeling spirit of chaos. I like to think that members of any mainstream party, but especially the Conservatives since I'm a member, hold themselves to a higher standard in public.

Do I think you were out of order in anything you said? No. I think you pretty much summed up what a lot of people would get from it.

But I have two reservations:

1. If the situation was reversed and it was my guy being got at I think I'd feel at least a bit uneasy at this kind of thing. After all, it's difficult to judge, objectively, what someone's state of mind is and it feels like playing the man and not the ball. It reinforces in the mind the idea that Gordon's bonkers rather than that Gordon is wrong and incompetent, which is the more important point.

2. Frankly I think all Prime Ministers go a little bit mad after a while but I'm not convinced that this isn't standard issue Gordon, except that usually this sort of thing is better disguised by a veneer of respect for his authority. He was very similar in his famous youtube video. But if it's a mental breakdown then surely he can claim some kind of diminished responsibility?

I think the point is that he's not behaving as one would expect a Prime Minister to behave. He's lying, equivocating, he looks twitchy and tired and erratic and swivel-eyed, he has a scant and eroding mandate from his party and none from the country. And he's been caught in lie after lie. There's really no need to editorialise about his mental state when you have raw material like that!

I was glad you took White to task, especially over his sexism, and I thought you played a blinder all around. If you hadn't posted on this topic, I wouldn't have thought about it.

But certainly that's where I personally see the line in the sand being drawn and it's probably true you were close to it, though not over it.

Anonymous said...

Depressed, disappointed and petulant at being let down by Brown, these are difficult times for Polly Toynbee and Sir Michael White.

Long may the difficulties continue for these cheerleaders of statism who patronise us the public.

I laugh out loud every time I see them.

Simon The Bluesman said...

Who is Michael White trying to fool - he must know that by defending Brown only diminishes his own reputation (I’ll let you make your own jokes here). Regarding Gordon Brown's sate of mind Tom Bower has written a brilliant article on Brown's press conference performance yesterday. For those readers who do not understand Brown’s psychological make-up it’s well worth reading. Here’s the link:

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1191195/Convinced-genius-destiny-Gordon-Brown-refuses-inch.html

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Until I saw the vid I thought it was you that was having the hissy fit.

Clearly It was Michelle White.

I could elaborate, but to cut a long story short, White came over as a loser in every sense.

Brett Trevalyan said...

Something I really don't understand about all of this and it seems to be being overlooked.

What about Harriet Harman? When intercepted by the cameras yesterday, she would not comment but her face looked like thunder. She looked extremely unhappy about something - almost beyond speech.

Was it Flint or was it Voldermort? Surely she MUST be finding this extremely difficult to stomach. What's the view?

It looked to me like HH is spitting tacks. Will she be able to hold it in?? What's going on there? She must be close to breaking ranks.

Love to hear your views on this.

Duncan Cookson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Osama the Nazarene said...

"Sir" Michael White what an utter Brown nosed creep. Unbelievable.

Very well played Iain.

Duncan Cookson said...

Hissy fit may well be slightly sexist but at least it can also be used to describe men. I've heard it used that way plenty of times, it's short for hysterical fit after all. What's more sexist for me was the use of the phrase stiletto in the back several times by the presenter. You didn't pick him up on that but then I suppose you weren't there to score points off Sky or the Sun. Maybe you were also afraid you wouldn't be asked on again if you criticised them on air...

DespairingLiberal said...

I think Dale and Pollard pre-planned a little barracking campaign against MW.

I thought White did fairly well - Iain Dale was coming over with cheap, childish interpretations. Iain even made a very sexist remark himself during the piece showm (about Tessa Jowell just being brought back in to up the numbers) and this is all plainly just politically motivated.

Wasn't your uberheroine M Thatch often described as mad by the way Iain? Is this some sort of revenge-of-the-Tory-nerds? I vividly recall her being described as bonkers after her "we're a grandmother" moment.

Simon The Bluesman said...

Can someone please explain to me why Michael White is sometimes referred to as "Sir". Thanks.

mark said...

Michael White does talk some good sense sometimes, but the downsides are he often interrupts people, has quite an annoying voice, and a bit of a lofty attitude when in the company of others. All that considered, maybe, he should stick to the written word..?

skingers said...

Micky White... He can defend the indefensible... Most extraordinary:) Time he spent more time with his family I think...

A pitiful performance.

DespairingLiberal said...

Mark - it was Iain interrupting him (extremely rudely) that caused the row.

I am writing to Sky querying Iain Dale's public behaviour in that interview and asking them if they really consider him a fit and proper person to be invited onto national TV to discuss issues, given his exceptionally rude and childish conduct towards one of our most respected journalists.

DespairingLiberal said...

If anyone wants to help, I am also compiling a dossier on Iain Dale for circulation to any journalist or figure involved in public discussions with him, detailing the extremism he fosters on this blog and the lies and distortions in his articles.

Anonymous said...

In response to DespairingLiberal's last comment - I think you need to get out more and enjoy life.

Pork Balls said...

White displayed all of the sanctimonious qualities you associate with New Labour... reminded me of Patricia Hewitt, only with a bigger moustache.

Simon The Bluesman said...

I was saddened to read DespairingLiberal comments regarding Iain Dale. Just what is your problem and what do you think you will achieve?

Brett Trevalyan said...

@ Deluded liberal

"consider him a fit and proper person to be invited onto national TV to discuss issues, given his exceptionally rude and childish conduct towards one of our most respected journalists."

I take it, in that case, that you'll be asking the BBC to sack Paxo also???? Doesn't really stack up, does it. Must be another hissy fit. I assume that you're not female - wouldn't want to be accused of being sexist.......

Jim said...

Iain, you may have been better to wait for your turn and then use the same language against Sir Michael White. However you were a perfect gentleman in standing up for Caroline Flint in the face of new labour smearing.

DespairingLiberal said...

I am against hypocrisy, humbuy and devious conceit in all it's guises!

Iain I have to say is a bit of a master at the above. He poses as a sweet, reasonable, decent New Tory nice gay guy, who wouldn't hurt a fly.

Yet he engages in the worst sort of bullying in public, attacks other people for things he does himself, encourages extremism whilst pretending not to and in every way blazes the good old essex boot boy trail that every old Thatcherite adores, dressing it up in a veneer of modernism.

It is my mission to expose him and his blog for what he and it is.

This is deeply connected to the Tory party as a whole, since in many ways Cameron = Dale and the New Tories = The Old Tebbitite Tories.

Repackaging cannot hide that.

Note that Iain Dale confessed to me on the radio that the incoming Cameron government would be hated, possibly even more than the current one.

Michael 'Mad Dog' White said...

Michael White was on TV all day and came across almost as strange , eccentric and divorced from reality as The Gord himself. Quite why so many people tolerate his bellicosity and aggression is a mystery. Well done for standing up for sanity and reason Iain!

Stephen Gillespie said...

Michael White is such a dickhead

Stephen Gillespie said...

Despairing Liberal is also a complete dickhead

Stephen Gillespie said...

Despairing Liberal is apparenlty homophobic as well (in addition to being a sanctimoniuous twat). Nice

collective insanity said...

DespairingLiberal has the Mighty Mouse music playing in his head.

Labour really are all barking these days aren't they?

DespairingLiberal said...

I called him a "nice gay guy" Stephen - in what way exactly is that homophobic?

Come to that, in what way exactly is it certainly sexist to say someone has had a hissy fit? I just looked it up online and most refer to it in non-gender ways. Michael White pointed out that he would use the same phrase of a man.

I think this is just an example of Iain making a bit of a prat of himself in public and now trying to back-justify it. We've seen this sort of thing before from Master Dale!

Stephen Gillespie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Well done Mr Dale for talking sense, Mr White did not fundamentally address the concerns of women in this country that the gender gap is widening and the treatment of female members of the cabinet is of great concern. What Caroline Flint mentioned in her resignation letter only served to show what the rest of us are thinking.

"I am writing to Sky querying Iain Dale's public behaviour in that interview and asking them if they really consider him a fit and proper person to be invited onto national TV to discuss issues, given his exceptionally rude and childish conduct towards one of our most respected journalists."

Get a grip son, sounds like your bitter that your party failed to win over voters. Iain made valid points where Mr White was arrogant and foolish to brand Miss Flints actions as a "Hissy fit."

"Note that Iain Dale confessed to me on the radio that the incoming Cameron government would be hated, possibly even more than the current one."

Really scraping the barrel now aren't you?

DespairingLiberal said...

Iain often makes a big deal of it himself Stephen. I was just illustrating part of his stated image for comparison with the reality of his persona. Obviously you don't like that being openly stated. Truth is always the best medicine.

B Griffiths said...

I agree with you Iain, if you dont think Brown is losing it, just look at the famous YouTube video! And White comes across as a petulant, childish and arrogant man - no wonder New Labour loves him.

Stephen Gillespie said...

I just think his sexuality is irrelevant to this debate, so I'm not sure why you dragged it in unless you were trying to make some sort of anti-Iain Dale point. I don;t always agree with everything Iain says (e.g. his absurd eulogising of the odious tax-dodging Hazel Blears) and he does not pretend to be anything other than what he is which is an opinionated, slightly right of centre, socially liberal fiscally conservative commentator. For someone who is not a journo by training he holds his own against pompous bullies like "Sir" Michael White extremely well and in doing so, lands a punch for the little people against the self-regarding, self-absorbed Hampstead commentariat.

Charles Kennedy said...

Irrelevant Liberal more like.

What's rattled your cage? Results not quite as good as your irrelevant little party had hoped for?

Bugger off!

Professor Pizzle said...

As far as I can see, the only way – now that the Cabinet and MPs have revealed their true spineless colours – to get rid of the mad bugger, is through exposing him as a liar.

The breathtaking, bare-faced lie about Darling/Balls during yesterday's Bunker press-conference was astonishing. You could almost hear the sharp intake of breath from the assembled mass of journos. It shocked even their sleazy selves.

But it revealed a deadly weakness. Brown's soft white underbelly is this lie. If a single member of the press stands up in public and NAMES the No10 briefers who were putting out the 'Darling is toast' briefings – even better, if they have a text, voice message or email, Brown is history. After McBride he could not plead ignorance this time. No one, apart from Sir White, would believe him

Remember McBride nearly brought Brown down. He 'knew nothing', 'isolated individual' etc.

Have the press pack already forgotten the storm?

Is there no journo ready to make the reputation of a lifetime?

el-sid said...

I'd echo the thought that while "hissy fit" would be applied more often to a woman, it can quite easily be applied to men. Say 70:30, but nowhere near as lop-sided as "shrill" for instance. So just on those grounds it wasn't a great thing to call him on.

But more generally Iain - you're invited on telly to review the papers, not tell us what an idiot Michael White is. He's quite capable of doing that himself - and to the neutral viewer it just comes across as yah-boo politics. Aside from giving opponents an angle to attack you when they can't debate the real issues, you'll switch off more people than you turn on with so-called "great telly".

It's a good rule in general though - play the ball, not the man. I appreciate that it was the end of a long day for all of you, but it's probably even more important to avoid the ad hominem stuff when you're tired.

DL (2:40pm) - I didn't hear the quote you're talking about, but I suspect the next government (of whatever hue) will be unpopular because they have to deal with the consequences of Brown's living beyond our means. All those lovely schools and hospitals were all bought on tick, Brown was putting £30bn/year on a Chinese credit card at the height of the boom, even before the credit crunch started. That's simply not sustainable - and reducing public spending to what we can afford is going to be unpopular, whichever party is doing it. One of the great sadnesses is that Brown is so selfish that he has put off the hard decisions until after the election, he would rather court short-term popularity (relatively!) than take the tough decisions that our country needs.

English First said...

A Minister of Europe? How can you take that seriously?

Flint did have a hussy, she is an awful person and in future I hope she stays at home and makes sure its clean behind the fridge!

Who was the fat bird in the middle? Awful!

Enough! said...

Michale White gets away with with murder on the news channels all the time, hectoring , pontificating and spouting absurd twaddle as though his word were law. Thank goodness you spoke up for reality Iain! To claim yesterday, as he did, that events were somehow good for Gord was incredible and he desperately needed to be called on it! Well done!

peterporcupine said...

Actually, I thought Sir Michael did rather well.
And I have little time for the Guardian.
His analysis of Ms Flint surely is on the mark.
And yours of her and Ms Blears, a flipper, owes more to friendship, than to truth.

Odd how the msm is doing the busines as bloggers revert to party politics.

Jobs must be available in the next year.
Good luck Iain.
Not long to wait.
I'd rather see independent journalism.
Fearless and free.
S

DespairingLiberal said...

Well, we agree about H Blears Stephen.

simonh said...

Nobody comes out well from ill-tempered TV spats o that kind but I thought M White was closest to the truth in his view of Caroline Flint, who seems to have thrown wobbly. I guess Iain is keen to support anyone who opposes the PM, while Eve Pollard was banging the drum of sistely solidarity.

Cynic said...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2009/jun/06/gordon-brown-expenses-cabinet-elections

Now today White is the only one who sees the truth. Only Purnell left on principle. All of the others went because of their own family reasons, embarrassment over the expenses issue, the phase of the moon, the conjunction of Mars with Saturn, their Granny told them they must go...not because of Brown's leadership nor any crisis in Labour.Because you see there isn't one. They are all united, Marching forward, arms linked. Oh yes.

Cinna said...

At the end of the day White is just another Brown apologist...and a complete tosser.

Anonymous said...

Every time I see Michael White on tv he is making an absurd argument in defence of one Labour problem or another. Any one with sense can pick up on the fact that he bungles through a lost argument. Give him enough rope and he usually ends up hanging himself. I'm surprised at how many people genuinely think he's an intellectual heavyweight.

It proves the theory that as long as you speak with a tone of authority, people will believe any old horse crap.

Neil said...

To be fair Iain, you were talking utter crap when you said he was being sexist.

Iain Dale said...

Neil, funny how Eve Pollard agreed with me, as she made clear. And on the Tessa Jowell point, Brown only brought her back into Cabinet so he could get the women quotient up. Surely anyone can see that. That's him being sexist, not me.

And as for Despairing Liberal's comments on this thread, I find them very strange when on yesterday's radio programme we agreed on so much.

I have been going on these Sky and BBC programmes since 1999. He seems to think I am crap at them and have nothing to say. well that's his opinion, but does he not think the producers of these programmes would have dropped me before now if I was crap?

And as for the point about me posting this because I had been made to look a fool, I'd love to know what my thought process would have been to make that choice. If I thought I had looked a fool I would hardly draw attention to it, would I?

Dear oh dear.

Oliver Drew said...

Iain - it wasn't sexist in my view. Men and Women can have hissy fits. Having said that, what Michael White said was disparaging against Caroline Flint and unreasonable in my view.

That's it for me. I wouldn't mind seeing the bit about Gordon Brown though...

Neil said...

Iain,

that Eve Pollard agreed with you does not in any wise mean that you were right. I am no fan of Michael White, and I think that in general he was talking a lot of crap, and in general you were right, but I cannot see in what respect the term "hissy fit" is sexist. It simply isn't.

denverthen said...

Excellent, Mr D. Everyone I've spoken to today who caught it last night agrees that you were first rate on that programme. A breath of fresh air.

It might be too much to ask for our government to be honest, but we are entitled to expect some degree of virtue from professional political commentators.

(Many thanks for the ref. btw. That came as a bit of a shock!)

Oscar Miller said...

What a wanker White is. What a total tosser. Iain you came across very well indeed.

johnny hissie-fitte said...

I can sense the expression " a load of old Dame Michaels" entering the language.

TrueBlueBlood said...

michael White is a buffoon.

what a joke.

Oscar Miller said...

The entire Mandelson spin operation to neutralise Caroline Flint has been sexist. In the wake of the Blears blather about her inability to cope, we now have an attempt to stereotype Flint as the woman scorned out to get Brown with her stiletto. Of course it's sexist. And in this context hissy fit is sexist. It deliberately trivialises her devastating criticism of Brown. Despite everything Labour pretend to stand for, the Brown gang are more than happy to stoke up the nation's latent sexism in the interests of taking out Flint.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Iain Dale does not know how to behave on television.

Which is why he is a breath of fresh air.

This week, he and Fraser Nelson struck a blow for all those who detest pompous twattery and the fawning lobby rats that practice it.