political commentator * author * publisher * bookseller * radio presenter * blogger * Conservative candidate * former lobbyist * Jack Russell owner * West Ham United fanatic * Email iain AT iaindale DOT com
Monday, June 22, 2009
Speaker Vote: Evening Open Thread
This evening I am speaking at an Editorial Intelligence event: Bloggertariat v Commentariat - Who's Winning? Sadly therefore I must leave you to your own devices for the rest of the Speaker votes until 9pm.
I have it on good authority that Ann Widdicombe has had a 'squawk box' implanted in her throat. Apparently she thinks that this will make her more shrill if she has to discipline unruly MPs. I find this unlikely in view of the surgery required, but I listened to her this afternoon and wonder whether there might be some truth to this allegation.
Even allowing for ‘Anonymous’ pointing out the 5 Sinn Fein MPs, I’m going to stick with around 20 who might not be voting for semi-valid reasons (I’d sort of counted at least one of them in anyway and presumably the four who dropped out will now vote).
So, in the second round we had (including spoilt) 598 votes. Ex 646 that is 28 who didn’t vote, not including the above. 5 more than last time (were they late/didn’t know it was going on?, or is that the failures from first time?) Still strewth..
If John Bercow wins things will just go from bad to worst. It will be a disaster for Parliament and the future of politics in the UK. This is spiteful Labour MPs having their final bad joke as they sink with their ship. I hope after the next election there is a new vote for Speaker as John Bercow's liberal leftie views are not shared by more than 90% of Conservative MPs. How will he ever be fair or impartial when moral issues are discussed like the protection of unborn children? If John Bercow gets his way there will be abortion on demand right up to term. The militant left wing feminist will be celebrating tonight if he is the winner. For real traditional conservatives it will be a very sad day and they will be shaking their head in dispair. Just watch the smirking faces on the labour benches if he is declared the winner. But let's hope David Cameron and the Conservative Government have the last laugh when they vote for a new speaker after the next General Election..
Sir George is charming - when i worked in the House he was very decent, but to be honest it needs somebody a bit more radical. Bercow could really shake things up - but both would be good speakers and we should give the winner a chance. It is clear that there was no stitch up - despite some ramblings on various blogs. perhaps the conspiracy theorists will now rcognise that parliament is not some sort of pit of evil - but a functioning, if somewhat chaotic seat of democracy
Bercow picked up more votes than might have been expected from round one to round two. Presumably a fair few of them were Tories as 3 of the 4 candidates knocked ou at the end of round 1 were Conservative MP's.
Simon has to be a Labour joker, right? Bercow is a Cameron loyalist, and 90% of Tories agree with at least 90% of his views. He may not be acceptable to the lunatic fringe, the likes of Nadine Dorries, but those people will be to Cameron's government as George Galloway was to Blair's.
So we've gone from an obstinate Glaswegian shop steward to a greasy chancer who's only interest is himself, and could pass for a dodgy used-car salesman.
Looks like nothing much has changed, and I can't see Bercow being able to be the moderniser all his supporters felt he could be. He's talked the talk, can he walk the walk?
We shall see as he'll be watched ever so closely, and I can't wait for the good folk at Private Eye and their take on the whole rigmarole...
and so it begins before he chairs his first pmq or debate the tories are out to get him. give the man a break he's been elected its democracy you might not agree with it but deal with it.
Yes - he just spent his time talking to the Labour benche....prepare the riot gear, for the people of England are coming and we are going to speak once and for all.
I'd give the greasy chancer a dip in the Thames without a lifebelt, its about all he's good for... He's the biggest greaser I've seen outside of the used car industry, and that's saying something.
Bercow as Speaker!the lunatic has now taken over the asylum.Broon will be allowed to carry on NOT answering questions at PMQ,s. ( Iain is sporting a very very colourful tie on the Beeb News, its cheering me up after the disaster was announced)
Ian is currently on the bbc news channel spouting his claptrap about bercow. Already tories are plotting to oust him before he's even taken his postion. Do tories actually believe in democracy ?
This may be a minority view, but give the guy a chance. Since the Telegraph kicked off this whole feeding frenzy there has been an unhealthy level of hysteria around anything that happens in Westminster. Calm down, let Bercow get on with the job, and judge him a few months.
The House has taken leave of its senses. How can the Commons expect to be taken seriously, having put in the Chair a sycophantic boy. The Speaker should never be the focal point of any debate. I fear that Bercow will wish to be the centre of attention and intervene too often. Yes, I am biased. I have known Alan for more years than I can remember. He has demonstrated, during the years that he has been Chairman of Ways and Means, all the necessary qualities required of a Speaker. Rab Butler has always been considered the greatest Leader of the Tory Party that never was. So too do I believe the case to be with Alan. The House has missed an opportunity to elect someone who would have been one of the best Speakers of our time. I think it will rue the day.
Can these people disgrace themselves any further? They have taken away the last shred of faith I had in politicians.
Gordon Brown and this dismal Labour Party will surely have guaranteed their place as the worst and least democratic in history. The smirks on their faces just made me want to scream.
Anon @ 9.22 Do not be so snobbish about cleaners, would you want to work in a dirty office or shop in a filthy supermarket ? Cleaners have feelings too, plus who would want to work on the same squad as that wretched and incompetant woman.She should hitch up her caravan and join a travellers site who are all loved by NuLiebor.
I may be wrong, but was that David Davis sat on the opposition front bench between Liam Fox and Cheryl Gillan. I may be wrong, but I've seen the clip twice, and I'm sure its him.
Im prepared to give the man a chance, look at it this way, hes not a communist Jock so progress at least.
As for any brainwashed and indoctrinated useful fools, aka Labour Regime supporters, if for any peculiar reason you are feeling in the mood for gloating, then may i remind you that you got wiped out in both the local elections and also the (it must be said sham) EU elections a few weeks ago, and will be utterly annihilated at the next General election, at best being out of power for twenty years, and at worst out of power forever with the lib Dems becoming the opposition.
For all of you saying 'give the guy a chance', please remember that there are plenty of Tories (and others) who've known Bercow for more than twenty years now - and the fact that we're the ones most loudly bewailing this disaster really ought to tell you something. There's only so much malign farce even the greatest political institutions can take ... I certainly don't hate Bercow nearly as much as others (most of whom have known him much longer) do, but heaven knows, something's gone badly wrong with the world tonight.
I was quite astonished by your statement on the BBC this evening Iain that John Bercow was once to the right of you. I honestly believed that to be impossible.
I think the reaction of the Conservative frontbench was disgraceful. Bercow has been duly elected Speaker and we must all give him the benefit of the doubt. Enough already!
Golden Balls, the Conservative front bench and many backbenchers were extremely churlish - they refused to applaud and sat with their arms crossed. Really juvenile and petty. Better Bercow than a bully.
And yet, once the MPs have graciously accepted their new £100k salaries, it seems likely that quite a few of them will insist that this appalling, really entirely unacceptable development was forced on them by a Tory speaker - and we all know what Tories are like, don't we?
No wonder so many Tory MPs are less than thrilled that Dave, who'd sell the lot of them downriver if a media outlet told him to, hasn't been able to stop tonight's disaster.
Personally, I couldn't give a big rats arse what religion he is. The House has stuck two fingers up to the electorate in electing this slimy greaseball.
Bercow seems quite a decent guy to me, despite having something of the narcissist about him. I found it revealing that he did not speak of the nation in his first utterances, but of "the high point of his career" as if that matters to anyone. Nevertheless, he does actually seem quite cheerful and determined and likable and those qualities go a long way. He also appears (sometimes) to be able to speak without notes.
I think George Young would have been more serious and in the long run, very much more effective, but I suppose in this media age people in high office need to present well, not just be strong intellects.
Having said all that, I feel sceptical that any of it will make much difference. The Tories may loath Bercow, but probably for the wrong reasons, as he is no real obstacle to their wishes. Real reform needs the government to agree to it. The executive are still very much in charge and will remain so under a Tory government. It really doesn't matter much except around the edges what the Speaker does. Let's not forget that our beloved MPs only through Martin out to distract attention from their own malfeasance. It isn't true (as Betty Boothroyd, David Blunkett, Martin Salter and John Bercow would all have us believe) that only a small minority of MPs were on the take. It was very widespread.
A shame we can't make the investigations retrospective and find out what expenses past cabinet, shadow cabinet and speakers were all claiming.
I don't think I've seen any here, but quite a lot of antisemitic comments over at Guido's place. Not sure how many will survive the censor's scalpel. Also, they've already started claiming Bercow is a closet homosexual. Guido really attracts some vile fans.
85 comments:
Still in the office without access to a TV. Any idea what time the second round results are due?
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=4283
Try this link to see the proceedings
Damon,
Approx 7pm so I hear
I have it on good authority that Ann Widdicombe has had a 'squawk box' implanted in her throat. Apparently she thinks that this will make her more shrill if she has to discipline unruly MPs.
I find this unlikely in view of the surgery required, but I listened to her this afternoon and wonder whether there might be some truth to this allegation.
Thanks Witterings and Anon (6.24).
Regards
Damon
Damon From Birmingham - Second Round should be 7 to 7.30.
groan the berk is ladbrokes fav at 4/6.
Can somebody explain to me why the Conservatives hate Mr Bercow?
2nd round results...
Beckett 70
Beith 46
Bercow 221
Haselhurst 57
Widders 30
Young 174
Betfair have just suspended their market @1857 hrs. Beckett = 50; Young = 2.36; Bercom = 1.74.
time will explain all . .
Haselhurst now 100-1 but i'll give Iain 10000-1
John Bercow 1.40
Sir George Young 2.75
Sir Alan Haselhurst 101.00
Margaret Beckett 101.00
Sir Alan Beith 101.00
Right, non-voters #2:
Even allowing for ‘Anonymous’ pointing out the 5 Sinn Fein MPs, I’m going to stick with around 20 who might not be voting for semi-valid reasons (I’d sort of counted at least one of them in anyway and presumably the four who dropped out will now vote).
So, in the second round we had (including spoilt) 598 votes. Ex 646 that is 28 who didn’t vote, not including the above. 5 more than last time (were they late/didn’t know it was going on?, or is that the failures from first time?) Still strewth..
My prediction for round three:
Bercow - 315
Young - 285
He, Beckett & Beith have left the race.
OK, just the two. Given the Labour majority, its clear Bercow isn’t getting all the their votes, so it looks like Sir George.
2nd round
Bercow 221
Sir George Young 174
...running the maths it looks like it is JB!!!
Bercow looks like a spiv. Does he really have the dignity to grace the speaker's chair?
There’s 203 votes (if all vote again, and that’s not a given) to share out. I’m still going with an anyone but Bercow vote.
This one will be close. Got a feeling that out with the old, in with the new will be order of the day, so JB FTW.
Ah, the pleasure of knowing our host has pissed a hundred quid up against the wall... Priceless !!
...whereas Guido is quids in
Most of the LD votes will go over to Bercow from Beith. Most of the Beckett and Haselhurst votes will go to Young. It will be very close.
If John Bercow wins things will just go from bad to worst. It will be a disaster for Parliament and the future of politics in the UK. This is spiteful Labour MPs having their final bad joke as they sink with their ship. I hope after the next election there is a new vote for Speaker as John Bercow's liberal leftie views are not shared by more than 90% of Conservative MPs. How will he ever be fair or impartial when moral issues are discussed like the protection of unborn children? If John Bercow gets his way there will be abortion on demand right up to term. The militant left wing feminist will be celebrating tonight if he is the winner. For real traditional conservatives it will be a very sad day and they will be shaking their head in dispair. Just watch the smirking faces on the labour benches if he is declared the winner. But let's hope David Cameron and the Conservative Government have the last laugh when they vote for a new speaker after the next General Election..
Mr Weasel, Bercow started life as a very hard right-winger Monday Club member (http://www.conservativeuk.com/views.htm)
He then underwent a complete political transformation which made him more suited to the Labour benches when Quentin made the move and he didn't.
Basically, he has zero principles and is a shameless self promoter.
Simon, the office in play is speaker of the house, not dictator of Britain (we already have one of those). No need for drama-queenitis !
Sir George is charming - when i worked in the House he was very decent, but to be honest it needs somebody a bit more radical. Bercow could really shake things up - but both would be good speakers and we should give the winner a chance. It is clear that there was no stitch up - despite some ramblings on various blogs. perhaps the conspiracy theorists will now rcognise that parliament is not some sort of pit of evil - but a functioning, if somewhat chaotic seat of democracy
Bercow picked up more votes than might have been expected from round one to round two. Presumably a fair few of them were Tories as 3 of the 4 candidates knocked ou at the end of round 1 were Conservative MP's.
It is now 8:20 and it looks like it will be that Bercow chap, but it is going to be a close run thing.
I wonder who the deputy speaker will be? The power behind the throne as it were?
Bercow has won. Note time of this message. Bercow has won
REJOICE! He's a real maverick and will surprise you all
Simon has to be a Labour joker, right? Bercow is a Cameron loyalist, and 90% of Tories agree with at least 90% of his views. He may not be acceptable to the lunatic fringe, the likes of Nadine Dorries, but those people will be to Cameron's government as George Galloway was to Blair's.
Bercow's lead was bigger than I expected:
Bercow - 322
Young - 271
Notice a lot of the Tories were not clapping.
As I usually find my views are the exact opposite of La Dorries on most matters, I am rather pleased that Bercow has won.
dioneo-Don't forget where you read it first
Bliss joy and lots of laughter
well done bercow :-)
A part of Broons speech for Bercow was jeered by the Tories.
So we've gone from an obstinate Glaswegian shop steward to a greasy chancer who's only interest is himself, and could pass for a dodgy used-car salesman.
Looks like nothing much has changed, and I can't see Bercow being able to be the moderniser all his supporters felt he could be. He's talked the talk, can he walk the walk?
We shall see as he'll be watched ever so closely, and I can't wait for the good folk at Private Eye and their take on the whole rigmarole...
Depressing, Gordon has got what he wanted
who regrets martins forced departure
by the tories and liberals ? lol
I just hope he lives up to my high expectations
@Golden_balls
If he lives up to ANYONE'S expectations... Anyone that has more support on from the opposite benches has to be SERIOUSLY suspect!
In fact I'm sure he's more Labour than half the Labour back-benchers!
Did anyone notice how, during Bercow's acceptance speech, he addressed mainly the Labour benches?
and so it begins before he chairs his first pmq or debate the tories are out to get him. give the man a break he's been elected its democracy you might not agree with it but deal with it.
Yes - he just spent his time talking to the Labour benche....prepare the riot gear, for the people of England are coming and we are going to speak once and for all.
I'd give the greasy chancer a dip in the Thames without a lifebelt, its about all he's good for... He's the biggest greaser I've seen outside of the used car industry, and that's saying something.
Labour selected McGorbals, Labour selected Bercow, at the next General Election he can go and Labour can go an f**k themselves aswell.
Well at least it's not La Beckett. How that woman was ever promoted above the level of cleaner I don't know.
Its lovely to hear such a resounding congratulations from his conservative friends who needs enemies when you have friends like these
Bercow as Speaker!the lunatic has now taken over the asylum.Broon will be allowed to carry on NOT answering questions at PMQ,s. ( Iain is sporting a very very colourful tie on the Beeb News, its cheering me up after the disaster was announced)
Ian is currently on the bbc news channel spouting his claptrap about bercow. Already tories are plotting to oust him before he's even taken his postion. Do tories actually believe in democracy ?
This may be a minority view, but give the guy a chance. Since the Telegraph kicked off this whole feeding frenzy there has been an unhealthy level of hysteria around anything that happens in Westminster. Calm down, let Bercow get on with the job, and judge him a few months.
The House has taken leave of its senses. How can the Commons expect to be taken seriously, having put in the Chair a sycophantic boy. The Speaker should never be the focal point of any debate. I fear that Bercow will wish to be the centre of attention and intervene too often. Yes, I am biased. I have known Alan for more years than I can remember. He has demonstrated, during the years that he has been Chairman of Ways and Means, all the necessary qualities required of a Speaker. Rab Butler has always been considered the greatest Leader of the Tory Party that never was. So too do I believe the case to be with Alan. The House has missed an opportunity to elect someone who would have been one of the best Speakers of our time. I think it will rue the day.
Can these people disgrace themselves any further? They have taken away the last shred of faith I had in politicians.
Gordon Brown and this dismal Labour Party will surely have guaranteed their place as the worst and least democratic in history. The smirks on their faces just made me want to scream.
I despair for my country.
Anon @ 9.22 Do not be so snobbish about cleaners, would you want to work in a dirty office or shop in a filthy supermarket ? Cleaners have feelings too, plus who would want to work on the same squad as that wretched and incompetant woman.She should hitch up her caravan and join a travellers site who are all loved by NuLiebor.
I may be wrong, but was that David Davis sat on the opposition front bench between Liam Fox and Cheryl Gillan. I may be wrong, but I've seen the clip twice, and I'm sure its him.
Did I miss something?
Im prepared to give the man a chance, look at it this way, hes not a communist Jock so progress at least.
As for any brainwashed and indoctrinated useful fools, aka Labour Regime supporters, if for any peculiar reason you are feeling in the mood for gloating, then may i remind you that you got wiped out in both the local elections and also the (it must be said sham) EU elections a few weeks ago, and will be utterly annihilated at the next General election, at best being out of power for twenty years, and at worst out of power forever with the lib Dems becoming the opposition.
does anyone else think little john bercow looks like dudley moore's 'patch the elf' from 'santa claus the movie'?
pics here http://fsn.typepad.com/blog/
especially in his big speaker's chair, he looks tiny...
I hope he wears a wig!
*** For 9.22pm read 9.09pm Sorry
If you think thats change then just wait until next June!.
For all of you saying 'give the guy a chance', please remember that there are plenty of Tories (and others) who've known Bercow for more than twenty years now - and the fact that we're the ones most loudly bewailing this disaster really ought to tell you something. There's only so much malign farce even the greatest political institutions can take ... I certainly don't hate Bercow nearly as much as others (most of whom have known him much longer) do, but heaven knows, something's gone badly wrong with the world tonight.
I was quite astonished by your statement on the BBC this evening Iain that John Bercow was once to the right of you. I honestly believed that to be impossible.
What an excellent result.
True democracy at work.
I'm sure this will be a popular result with his colleagues.
I think the reaction of the Conservative frontbench was disgraceful. Bercow has been duly elected Speaker and we must all give him the benefit of the doubt.
Enough already!
In my (his) constituency we go from having no real election to having no election.
@Simon Gardner
its only the main political parties that withdraw. you or any one else could stand.
i didn't see what the tory front bench did would someone care to say ?
I’m aware of that. This is a VERY safe seat.
By electing Bercow, MPs have stuck two fingers up at the electorate. Perhaps Martin Bell will stand against him at the next election?
Just remember its labour votes wot did it !
"greasy chancer" "big-eared" etc.
Bercow seems to sound too "Estonian" for some of the wingnuts here.
Golden Balls, the Conservative front bench and many backbenchers were extremely churlish - they refused to applaud and sat with their arms crossed. Really juvenile and petty. Better Bercow than a bully.
Sad to say but he reminds me of the dwarf in the old Fantasy Island TV series!
Just remember its labour votes wot did it !
And yet, once the MPs have graciously accepted their new £100k salaries, it seems likely that quite a few of them will insist that this appalling, really entirely unacceptable development was forced on them by a Tory speaker - and we all know what Tories are like, don't we?
No wonder so many Tory MPs are less than thrilled that Dave, who'd sell the lot of them downriver if a media outlet told him to, hasn't been able to stop tonight's disaster.
Remember "House of Cards", the drug-taking character called Roger who Francis Urquhart gets to do his dirty work for him? John Bercow.
Never mind the wig what about those tights?
Lady Finchley 10:10
You say the Tory MPs were churlish, I say that you saw something rare in the commons today. MPs BEING HONEST.
What's the problem with Bercow exactly?
Is it that he might be impartial?
I guess it's a pity that Cameron couldn't stand for election.
Anyone else would clearly be biased.
@Anon
They don't like him because he's a working class Jewish lad.
Personally, I couldn't give a big rats arse what religion he is. The House has stuck two fingers up to the electorate in electing this slimy greaseball.
He'll be worse than Gorbals Mick.
Let the troughing recommence!!
Well there goes Parliament's last vestige of honour.
Labour have got Bercow elected in the teeth of opposition.
Smashing - we have an oily self publicist in the most important commoner role in the country.
Shame on those who voted for him.
Mr Halsall
Bollocks - I like most others have zero interest in Bercow's religious views or heritage.
Grow up and find a genuine reason to support him if you can.
Plato
Did I mention you? I referred to specific comments.
Bercow seems quite a decent guy to me, despite having something of the narcissist about him. I found it revealing that he did not speak of the nation in his first utterances, but of "the high point of his career" as if that matters to anyone. Nevertheless, he does actually seem quite cheerful and determined and likable and those qualities go a long way. He also appears (sometimes) to be able to speak without notes.
I think George Young would have been more serious and in the long run, very much more effective, but I suppose in this media age people in high office need to present well, not just be strong intellects.
Having said all that, I feel sceptical that any of it will make much difference. The Tories may loath Bercow, but probably for the wrong reasons, as he is no real obstacle to their wishes. Real reform needs the government to agree to it. The executive are still very much in charge and will remain so under a Tory government. It really doesn't matter much except around the edges what the Speaker does. Let's not forget that our beloved MPs only through Martin out to distract attention from their own malfeasance. It isn't true (as Betty Boothroyd, David Blunkett, Martin Salter and John Bercow would all have us believe) that only a small minority of MPs were on the take. It was very widespread.
A shame we can't make the investigations retrospective and find out what expenses past cabinet, shadow cabinet and speakers were all claiming.
I don't think I've seen any here, but quite a lot of antisemitic comments over at Guido's place. Not sure how many will survive the censor's scalpel. Also, they've already started claiming Bercow is a closet homosexual. Guido really attracts some vile fans.
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