Wednesday, June 10, 2009

It's The Only Language They Understand

Did you have trouble getting to work this morning? If so, spare a thought for those poor, downtrodden train drivers. You know, the ones who earn more than nurses. Who earn more than paramedics. Who earn more than most teachers, or NHS dentists.

They are demanding a pay rise of 5% and a guarantee of no redundancies. Transport for London and Boris Johnson must not give in to the bully boy tactics of Bob Crow and his henchmen. They give trade unionism a bad name. Every year, Crow brings his lackies out on strike. If it isn't about pay it's for some spurious reason about health and safety at work.

Did you know newly qualified drivers get 8 weeks paid holiday? And one of the reasons for this strike is that TFL sacked a driver for opening his doors on the wrong side and then lying about it, while a second driver was sacked for theft. Why on earth would people go on strike in support of people like that?

If this were any other industry, most of these drivers would have been sacked by now. It's time Peter Hendy grew a backbone.

NB The average salary of a train driver is: £37,231. This is MORE than a paramedic (£21,720), a nurse (23,044), a secondary school teacher (£31,340), and even a dentist (£31,747). Hattip TrueBlueBlood.

77 comments:

Dual Citizen said...

I bet Crow just can't wait for summer 2012!

Boris had better get the army trained on how to drive trains!

Taxed 'til the pips squeak said...

I strongly suspect your dentist figures are wrong! It may apply to newly-qualified salaried staff but is surely not an average figure.

Jonathan Cook said...

Iain,

Absolutely agree. Tube Drivers already earn way above the national average salary.

As for Health and Safety - Tube Drivers should remember how their pay compares to the Army.

http://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/benefits/pay/Pages/Soldier.aspx

Do Tube Drivers really deserve as much as a senior NCO leading the men fighting the Taliban?

"Mind the gap" versus "Mind the Sniper"

Anonymous said...

Crumbs. My husband only gets £14,000 pa, and he deals with psychotic criminals. A job made much more difficult, thanks to the PC culture. Staff are violently attacked every week, and the patients have more rights than the staff do - for instance, if they are bitten by a patient, the staff are not allowed to be told if that patient has Aids, or anything other disease, because it infringes their human rights. Also, the patients have more spending money from the tax payer, than the staff have left over, after paying their bills.
We struggle. But that's life. It just disgusts us when we read about those who are well overpaid.

strapworld said...

Half a mo, half a mo,
Half a mo backward,
Brown in the valley of Death
and sat the three hundred:
'Forward, said little Byers
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into Brown's valley of Death
Sat the three hundred.

'Forward, the Fright Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd ?
They, to a man, knew
Brown had blunder'd:
BUT, Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs not to do & die,
Into Brown's valley of Death
Sat the three hundred.

Bullies to right of them,
Bullies to left of them,
Bullies in front of them
clapped & thunder'd;
Storm'd at with smear and threat,
Cowardly with trousers wet,
Out of the jaws of Defeat,
Out of the mouth of Hell
marched Brown, still on his feet!.

Flash'd all their expenses bare,
Flash'd as they cried in despair
Sabring the cowards there,
Charging a worthless bunch, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the rumour-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Brown & Mandleson
Made 'em Reel from humble stroke,
Shatter'd & sunder'd.
Then they crawled back, but not
Not the three hundred.

Bullies to right of them,
Bullies to left of them,
Bullies behind them
Accosted and threatened;
Storm'd at with expenses hell,
Whilst truth & honour fell,
They that had not fought so well
Brown Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of three hundred.

How their glory did fade!
O the wild charges they made!
All the world wonder'd.
Dishonour the charges they made!
Dishonour this rotten Brigade,
No guts three hundred!
With sincere apologies to Alfred, Lord Tennyson
and 600 brave souls. From a time when men had pride and Honour
and placed Country before self!
 

Blackacre said...

And quite a lot more than bus drivers who must have a much more stressful working life AND never get called out on strike.

DespairingLiberal said...

If a business obtains monopoly power and is able to score record profits (for example, most of the big energy corporations) Tories and others think to themselves "where do I buy the shares" - if groups of workers obtain monopoly power and get higher wages, Tories attack them.

In fact, the RMT in London is a good advert for what working people can get if they form and act as a strong union!

The salary figures Iain Dale quotes are exaggerated - they include overtime. However, I think most people who drive a tube train for any length of time would quickly demand more money.

Anonymous said...

Difficult to argue Iain, but do you think Anonymous's husband 8:31 should go on strike. Surely it's because people like that don't just walk out of work that employers take the mick.

He should picket outside and let the psychotic criminals go ape, burn a few buildings down, then see what society thinks their job is worth.

Is one MP really worth 3 nurses + expenses?

Pete H said...

Was thinking about tube drivers vs. bus drivers.

The tube drivers use their 'stress' of dealing with passengers one of the reasons for their high pay, but bus drivers actually interact with passengers by collecting tickets/money, and not just through a tannoy.

Plus buses can move left/right as well as forwards/backwards, so driving a bus is technically more difficult...

Remember reading that it takes a year to train to be a tube driver (in comparison to ~45 hours to get your PPL). Which presumably equates to 45 days off, a quarter of a day learning to drive the tube, and the rest of the time training on how to strike.

strapworld said...

A young man named Gordon Brown bought a horse from an old farmer for £100.

The farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day, but when the farmer drove up he said, 'Sorry son, but I have some bad news... the horse is on my truck, but unfortunately he's dead.'

Brown replied, 'Well then, just give me my money back.'

The farmer said, 'I can't do that, because I've spent it already.'

Brown said, 'OK then, we'll just unload the horse anyway.'
The farmer asked, 'What are you going to do with him?'

Brown answered, 'I'm going to raffle him off.
'To which the farmer exclaimed 'surely you can't raffle off a dead horse!'


But Brown, with a wicked smile on his face said, 'Of course I can, you watch me. I just won't bother to tell anybody that he's dead.'


A month later the farmer met up with Brown and asked, 'What happened with that dead horse?'


Brown said, 'I raffled him off, sold 500 tickets at two pounds a piece, and made a huge, fat profit!!'


Totally amazed, the farmer asked, 'Didn't anyone complain that you had stolen their money because you lied about the horse being dead?'


To which Brown replied, 'The only guy who found out about the horse being dead was the raffle winner when he came to claim his prize. So I gave him his £2 raffle ticket money back plus an extra £200, which as you know is double the going rate for a horse, so he thought I was a great guy!!'


Brown grew up and eventually became the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and no matter how many times he lied, or how much money he stole from the British voters, as long as he gave them back some of the stolen money, most of them, unfortunately, still thought he was a great guy.


The moral of this story is that, if you think BROWN is about to play fair and do something for the everyday people of the country for once in his miserable, lying life, think again my friend, because you'll be better off flogging a dead horse !!!!

Anonymous said...

Dentist (non NHS) average between £90K and £140K.
NHS ones have the cushiest of lives and hence less - circa £40K - £60K.

However,isn't it amazing that with Brown's luck after this weekend,LPV vans goes down,C&G branches will be closed in totality,The Tube drivers are on strike,the NHS will evaporate by 2011,and on and on and on.
Brown attracts bad happenings so often,he resembles one of those balls in a pin ball machine,being battered off the sides time after time - best thing for Cameron to do is keep pressing the flippers and bashing him against the sides until eventually he WILL be carried out on a stretcher with Mandelson next to him declaring that he is now the PM.....

Anonymous said...

Isn't 32k about 2 new army recruits? A disgrace!

strapworld said...

Boris should do to these people what Ronal Reagan did to those air traffic controllers..he sacked the lot of them!

Might cause a bit of trouble BUT these people should have to be taught a lesson.

Andrew Efiong said...

Each strike causes loads of damage to the economy with the delays and stress. It is cheaper to buy off the workers, the extra cost of the wage bill by giving in to them is smaller than the millions lost by delays.

But one day we have to stand up to them. It's about time.

DespairingLiberal said...

Anon 8:39 - I am quite sure that if the police and nurses actually did go on strike, any government would rapidly meet their pay demands.

It obviously isn't rational to plan wages on the basis of who can walk out, but in a dog eat dog society as approved of by Tories, it makes sense to get away with it if you can. Why on earth criticise those who do??

Oh and one more thing. On your stated values system Iain, why do you believe that bankers and brokers are worth so much more than hard-pressed nurses and police officers?

Burnley is a labour free zone said...

Dear Anonymous,

Do you think it is just a coincidence that LDV goes down, and C&G close all their branches, immediately after the elections?

What's the betting that someone asked for this information to be held over until after the elections?

JuliaM said...

Let's hope Boris shows the guts that Reagan showed when he faced down the air traffic controllers.

We can no longer let Crow and his minions hold the capital to ransom. Break them, Boris!

I'll happily put up with a few more days of disruption if it works...

Newmania said...

That is sickening but I would not be so sure about that Teacher salary . That may be the headline but their are endless add-ons and in a typical school there are all sorts of layabouts on £60 k plus for what is a part-time job just about anyone could do with a couple of months lead in.

Plus you cannot be fired
Plus you have a golden pension
Plus if you have children they hold your job open
Plus you can work and watch your children during the school holidays

With all of this and the £90 billion extra that has been thrown at education literacy levels have actually reduced . Sod the train drivers but don’t hold teachers up as a deserving case they are part of the problem and I hope they go on strike so we can all see the truth
No wonder this country is sinking into the sea it is common knowledge that Public sector pay rates have out performed private sector by double but actually it is the unionised parasites versus the workers where the true division lies .

English First said...

1. Paramedics - Screwed by GP`s who are massively overpaid!

2. My ex Mother in law, an ex real matron, says quite clearly that nurses are often lazy, incompetent and lazy.

3. Teachers. Work around 6 months every year. massive holidays, weekends off, short days. Add to that a Liberal layer of politically correct clap trap, incompetence and lazy attitudes and the reason English education is the worst in Europe is obvious.

4.NHS Dentists. Are there any left? Most have gone private and their salaries are absolutely massive!

5. MP`s. Will undoubtedly vote themselves a huge above inflation pay rise, again! Kep the snouts in the troughs!

So, although I am not a union type person, what is wrong with this union attempting to obtain a 5% pay rise for its members?

Just wait and see what our lying, thieving MP`s give themselves! Why can`t the unions of these other organisations represent their members anyway?

Anonymous said...

I don't care what group tube train drivers are paid more or less than.

The only criteria that matters are:

1) Can they recruit enough to fill the vacancies
2) Can TfL hold onto the ones they have

Nothing else matters.

Let the market decide.

Newmania said...

Let the market decide.

Ha on that basis they would be £20,000 pa which is still too much for pushing a button

Mark M said...

Off topic

Did anyone see Andy Burnham saying yesterday of the NHS that "we have tripled funding from £35bn to over £100bn"? Why is it that the only thing Labour can say about anything they've done is how much of other people's money they've been able to spend?

Spending £65bn a year more than the Tories on the NHS is not an achievement. I could do that if I was chancellor. Have we seen equivalent increases in the standard of care? My guess is not.

dearieme said...

"Paramedics - Screwed by GP`s who are massively overpaid!" Gosh, when were GPs given the power to set the pay of paramedics?

SHB said...

Iain,

I doubt whether 'If this were any other industry, most of the drivers would have been sacked by now'.

In my expereince of managing workforces with a disruptive militant element - which I have done in Liverpool and Derbyshire - it is usually better to identify the ring leaders and develop a plan to deal with them.

Most employees want to come to work, do a good a job, go home and get paid.

It is the minority who are unreasonable and set out to make life as difficult as possible for the employer and their colleagues.

Take out the ring leaders and their henchman (normally not required for all henchman to be taken out, as once the writing is on the wall some will get the message and start to moderate their behaviour).

At the same time cultivate relationships with individuals who will fill the 'leadership' role once the militants have gone thus avoiding a vacuum.

After a period of time there will be a much more reasonable and constructive relationship between the employee representatives and the employer.

I can't see the public having much sympathy with the tube drivers when;

1) 5% is an outrageous claim when you are already on good money
2) No redundancies when people all over the country are loosing their jobs
3) Most people recognise Crow for what he is

Anonymous said...

@English First

I hope nurses become ruthless enough to go on strike. With a bit of luck you'll have an attitdue adjustment when you're waiting for the canula for your morphine drip.

Dave H said...

Last time I used the Docklands Light Railway it seemed to work fine without a driver.

Are they really necessary?

Anonymous said...

The late Gen. Franco used to conscript transport strikers into the army and subject them to military discipline. Spanish military discipline being what it was in the 40s, 50s and even 60s everything ran better than when there wasn't a strike. Tongue in cheek perhaps Boris should look at this.

Anonymous said...

Damn - teachers found out - obviously a complete skoosh - perhaps English First and Newmania would care to go along and do the job since it is so straightforward, overpaid, and obviously some kind of rest cure? If not then what could be holding them back....?
Reason Anon 8.31's husband doesn't go on strike is because he's motivated by altruism - an alien concept to some of the contributors here - and yes - he is exploited - a scandal - but who will stand up for him?

Old Holborn said...

People who use public transport deserve everything they get.

Including headlice.

Wasn't it Maggie who said "when I see a grown man on a bus, I see a failure"?

DespairingLiberal said...

Newmania - wrong as always - the market is deciding. There are always vacancies for LT drivers and staff, even in the deepest recessions. Staff turnover is one of the highest for any industry.

I think what we see in the comments here is classic Right-wing self-serving politics. A bit of disruption getting to work - shoot the b*ast*rds! But fair pay for unpleasant jobs? Forget it! I don't want to pay taxes on my massive broker's salary!

Danvers said...

I had to take a taxi into work this morning (which I shared with 5 others - the taxi company did well charging £75 for a journey which would usually cost about £25), but driving through Westminster, who did I see crossing the road? None other than our celebrated diarist, Mr Dale himself!

But yes, I agree, bunch of tossers.

Surely RMT members are now less popular and regarded as more venal than both MPs and bankers. Some achievement for a morning's (lack of) work.

PhilC said...

FYI here's Bob Crow's statement on the strike:

RMT doesn’t resort to industrial action lightly, that’s just a myth peddled by some sections of the media. The fact is that Tube workers have been driven into walking out today.

Tube bosses have deliberately provoked this confrontation and RMT wants the issues at the heart of the dispute to be resolved so that our members can get back to delivering a first class transport service.

On London Underground, bosses are threatening to tear up an agreement aimed at safeguarding jobs, and have refused to rule out compulsory redundancies. Up to 4000 jobs are at risk as part of a multi billion pound cuts package that can be traced directly back to the collapse of Metronet and the failure of the PPP.

RMT have made it clear we expect managers to abide by agreements and we would simply not be doing our job as a union if we allowed the tube to treat our members as cannon fodder who can be hired at fired at will.

On pay, we have asked for the usual single year agreement. Tube chiefs attempted to impose a five year deal which would have meant real terms pay cuts into the next decade. We will not be bullied into accepting that our members should be forced to pay for an economic crisis that was cooked up by the bankers and the politicians.

RMT has exposed the hypocrisy of senior tube managers on pay when 123 of the top TFL bosses are paid over £100,000 plus bonuses. It is those same managers who are attacking, bullying and victimising RMT members over our campaign for job security and a living wage.

RMT is committed to a modern and safe public transport system for Londoners. That cannot be achieved by axing jobs, slashing rates of pay and imposing massive cutbacks on the Tube.

Anonymous said...

I don't buy it that it's harder to drive a bus than a tube. The bus has the whole road to stay on but those hard done by tube drivers have to balance on those tiny tracks. In the dark.

Victor, NW Kent said...

Lackeys by the way, not lackies. Lackies is slang in some northern areas for "lackwits". On second thoughts.......

To press on. Bob Crow and his Socialist Worker Party pals have already a detailed plan for strikes to coincide with the London Olympics.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it amazing how many people know exactly how much other people earn? Let's face it, the Tory party is the natural home of the Fred Goodwins of this world and the Labour party should be the natural home of the Bob Crows. Sadly in trying to become the natural home of the Fred Goodwins the Labour party has become no-one's natural home. The moral of this story is that when both Labour and Tory try to cosy up to big business the country goes down the tubes.QED

Anonymous said...

Funny how political animals quote nurses Blah Blah Blah low wages Blah Blah, when it suits their argument, perhaps those same animals need to remember nurses also pay taxes, those same taxes looted by overpaid MP's who largely aren’t fit for purpose!

Good on the Train Drives get the market rate, if not steal it just like those paragons of virtue in Westminster!

Anonymous said...

From a economists point of view, setting salaries is relatively simple.

It's just a function of your training costs and your staff turnover rate. If training costs are very high, then it becomes expensive to have a high staff turnover rate, so you try to set salaries so that there is a balance between the cost of people leaving and the cost of people staying.

Supply-and-demand should have very little to do with it, which is why you should ignore the people who say "hundreds of people apply to be policement/firefighters/nurses" because.

Unions screw up the relationship of course, because there's very little downside to them of going on strike, other than losing their jobs because the company loses business to a rival. Which is exactly why you shouldn't let public services be run by monopolistic pseudo-companies like TFL.

no longer anonymous said...

"I think what we see in the comments here is classic Right-wing self-serving politics. A bit of disruption getting to work - shoot the b*ast*rds!"

Are you suggesting only right-wingers are affected by this? A lot of right-wingers are in office occupations that allow them to work conveniently from home. I suspect that such people are in a better position to deal with this strike than manual workers.

These people didn't inconvenience me - I depend on the DLR. However, what angers me is that these people have buggered over most of London.

Anonymous said...

Iain, your reference for these numbers gives a reference to the "National Office of Statistics".

Look at the dentist figure. It doesn't strike me as genuine.

Maybe it would help if you were to include a link to the genuine data - and I'd bet others of these figures wouldn't stand up either. For example the nurse figure doesn't look right.

37K is decent, but is not as much of a wage as it once was!

Scottish Politics said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYVJSOFZxDE

This video sums it up nicely.

Anonymous said...

Sorry if this is a bit off topic but I have just received an email from No10 website to say my petition had been rejected.
Here is the text.......

Hi,

I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected.

Your petition was classed as being in the following categories:

* Intended to be humorous, or has no point about government
policy

Further information: Petitions to the Number 10 site should
request an action that can be taken by the Prime Minister as
the head of Government. We suggest you contact Gordon Brown as
an MP with your concerns.

If you wish to edit and resubmit your petition, please follow
the following link:
http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Subscriptions/AyIiJUCLrEulBqVBDwAk9mG

You have four weeks in which to do this, after which your
petition will appear in the list of rejected petitions.

Your petition reads:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to: 'publically
justify why the cost of his Sky Sports subscription should be
funded from MP allowances.'

I do not consider that a subscription to Sky Sports is an
expense incurred in accordance with the Green Book Rules.

-- the ePetitions team


I cannot agree with their assertion;
1. The misuse of public funds is of government concern.
2. Brown has made the clean up of the expenses issue a government priority.
3. He should be setting a example to the rest of Parliament.

Any suggestions on my next course of action?

Anonymous said...

As an addendum to the above post, it follows that MPs should be paid very little, since they have an extremely low turnover rate (except at general elections!) and they purportedly come with all the skills they need, so training costs are low.

This taps into Paul Goodman's argument - why aren't more MPs professionals from outside Westminster? Especially with modern technology, it's not necessary for them to sit in the House every day, so it should be perfectly possible to be a part-time but still effective MP.

Bath plugs for the many, not the few said...

Try resubmitting the petition but this time spell 'publicly' correctly.

..Silicon Implant!! said...

Yeah, who the hell do they think they are. MPs? Bankers?

disillusioned Dale blog reader said...

I don't think many dentists earn 31,000 - my understanding is that most of them are on 80 to 100,000 with some earning far, far more in private practice.

Hawkeye said...

I'd sack all the drivers and replace them with an automated system.

FFS, how hard can it be? You don't even have to steer the d*mn trains - they are on rails - you just need to move them along the track from station to the next.

How is driving a Tube train any harder than pressing the ENTER key on this keyboard?

johnse18 said...

Probably a good time to give this another airing. (Warning - may not be work-safe.)

www.backingblair.co.uk/london_underground

microdave said...

Here's the "Newsarse" take on this subject: http://newsarse.com/2009/06/rmt-to-strike-over-continued-requirement-to-drive-trains/

And as for comparing training someone to drive a train, with getting a PPL - there's simply no comparison. Since when does a train driver have to:
a) plan his journey making allowance for terrain, controlled airspace, forecast weather etc?
b) take off, set course, maintain height, navigate, and land at his destination?
c) be able to divert to another airfield if necessary?
d) be prepared to make a forced landing if necessary?

Granted, in the days of steam there was a lot more to contend with, but nowadays? And in any case very few PPL's get their training paid for....

mouth said...

Despairing Liberal:

"There are always vacancies for LT drivers and staff, even in the deepest recessions. Staff turnover is one of the highest for any industry."

Wrong as usual. These jobs are very much in demand. I used to live with someone who was degree educated and attempted on numerous occasions to get just an interview for tube driving and was always told no vacancies were available. This was 2005 - 2007, not exactly when jobs were like gold-dust.

Anonymous said...

Why on earth would people go on strike in support of people like that?

Because that's what unions do, brainiac. It's about "My Class, Right or Wrong" and it's about sticking it to The Bosses so that you create an environment where you, as an employee, can do anything you damned well please and never have to answer it.

You're not that young, Daley-Boy. I know you remember the 1970s.

Anonymous said...

And there is ALWAYS an England match going on when they strike. Coincidence?

neil craig said...

There is no technical reason why trains should have drivers.

The sort of centralised automated system of running them we should have would require relatively little computer capacity. It would also allow us to have single carriage units leaving every couple of minutes instead of a 10 carriage unit every half hour & service 24 hours & more flexibility since not all carriages need stop at the same stations. It would mean lower running costs & greater capacity & would make public transport genuinely able to compete with cars.

It is a sign of the dead hand of government that train travel is so much closer to Victorian times than car travel.

Anonymous said...

I look at the DLR and I see a way to male Bob Crow cry.

I hope Boris is doing the same...

Anonymous said...

edit: "make Bob Crow cry"

Anonymous said...

You might want to read what I posted this am over on PB.com

O/T but just a heads up that another strike looks to be coming shortly.

Was walking along outside Liverpool Street station about 10 mins ago when I overheard a guy on his mobile, he got my attention because he sounded a bit like someone I work with but clearly was not him from what followed.

As soon as I got to work I wrote down what I had heard so I would not forget later on, I quote:

“Tell him we want 5% if we dont get it i’m calling the members out”

Boris (I think Johnson?) said something yesterday that clearly upset him

“If Boris turns up today I want my members to walk out”

My favourite bit (and I REALLY had to bite my tongue here) “no wonder this country going down hill with fascists like him around”

Then talking a bit more (I think to someone called “Bob”), some confusion re a strike and a vote

“what they voted without me”?

“Who’s got deciding vote? I have? Then I vote to strike”

Either a nutter or someone clearly up for a (industrial) fight.

Wonder who he was, anyone know of any further strikes looming?

by floater June 10th, 2009 at 9:12 am

Paul Halsall said...

Yes, strikes hurt people.

But a Union is the ONLY defence working people have against the overwhelming power of an employer.

If you want proof, compare the terms and conditions of workers in Unionised industries to those without Unions.

And compare the conditions for workers in the UK (and EU) with those in the US.

Perhaps, Iain, the Tories can campaign on bringing back just ten days allowed vacation, as is usual in the US.

Anonymous said...

Tube station closed because of strike action this morning, so I needed to get the train. Massive cost to the economy apparently.

Tube station closed because of overcrowding caused by overrunning escalator works yesterday and Monday, so I needed to get the train. Cost to the economy unmentioned.

Rush-is-Right said...

"...Bob Crow and his henchmen. They give trade unionism a bad name."

No they don't. There is always some or other scumbag trade union leader holding the public to ransom and then regretting any inconvenience caused. They all do it, given the chance.

I'm with Strapworld. Sack the bleedin' lot.

happyuk07 said...

As an engineer I would be interested to know what kinds of technical skills are required for a tube driver - not that many I would expect compared with other professions.

I have often read that their biggest problem is boredom and maintaining concentration.

This would suggest that this an area that is ripe for automation.

Apart from the obvious benefits of no strikes reduced costs etc, 'robot' trains could do a huge number of mind-numbing yet safety-critical tasks way better than humans ever could: obstacle avoidance, collision avoidance, enforcing acceleration/deceleration constraints, congestion management, dealing with pitch black environments, reversing etc.

DespairingLiberal said...

I recall Tories praising London Underground staff to the heavens for their heroism during and after 7/7.

It seems there is a different story now they are asking not to be made redundant to help pay for the PFI failure of Metronet.

Mirtha Tidville said...

Seems help might be at hand.....The FA who do have some dosh are taking legal action against Comrade Crow and looks like a cool million might be the cost of tonights disrupted Football match at Wembley...

Bring it on and bring that Bastard to his knees..the true successor to Ray Buckton....

peter_dtm said...

happyuk07

as another (process & automation) engineer - couldn't agree with you more

BUT :

Crow would go berserk; look at all the hard working underpaid union workers we'd put out of work. All the luddite union & labour hoons would have a field day organising strikes in 'support' of the poor drivers.

Well they would just have to do what I've done three (or is it four) times - RE-TRAIN

Anonymous said...

So, hard on the heels of Labour's disastrous poll results, a militant unionist brings London's underground to a halt.

Coincidence ?

mouth said...

http://www.backingblair.co.uk/london_underground/

I had never seen this before. Laugh? I almost cried.

Anonymous said...

"if this were any other industry they would be sacked" Okay so parliament isnt an industry but there are liars, cheats etc in there and hardly any sackings.
Why should this be any different.

Jimmy said...

"You know, the ones who earn more than nurses. Who earn more than paramedics. Who earn more than most teachers, or NHS dentists."

So what? So do I and (I assume) do you.

Do you believe remuneration should be capped generally or just for types who didn't go to university?

Anonymous said...

now they are asking not to be made redundant to help pay for the PFI failure of Metronet.

erm...that's not what they're asking. They're asking for a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies (in the depths of a recession), an above inflation pay deal on top of their already inflated packet and just when it looked like they might be offered enough to stop the strike they decided to throw in the reinstatement of two employees, one of who was sacked for lying over a safety issue and the other of whom was sacked for theft.

Can't wait for driverless tubes. We already have the DLR, so they can't be far off. Then Crow and his little acolytes can go on strike permanently.

denverthen said...

Why shouldn't tube drivers be exposed to effects of Brown's recession Paul Halsall, you know, just like the rest of us? And what, exactly, do you know about US working conditions? In a word: nothing.

The time when British trade unions were anything more than mouthpieces for the far left is long gone. If you still think they exist to protect the worker then you are either totally naive or too left wing to be honest about it.

Lackeys of world socialism: Unite! And Unison and RMT and NUT and on and on and on.....

Only in Britain.

Paul Halsall said...

@Denverthen

"And what, exactly, do you know about US working conditions? In a word: nothing."

I lived and worked in the US for twenty years. That probably gave me some information.

Feel silly now?

Adrian said...

Dentists earn £31,747? Don't make me laugh.

Richard Brennan said...

Most tube drivers are represented by ASLEF, not the RMT. It is station staff, not tube drivers, who are striking.

This is why a partial service is running on most lines and two lines are running a usual service.

Anonymous said...

Inside knowledge says

Mr Crow is acting on behalf of his members.

Mr Johnson should bear in mind that tube drivers typically work only 32weeks per year ie with leave plus "sick leave" plus " going on training courses" plus any old rubbish. Many work even less than this.

About 35% or more of tube drivers are graduates who have for a long time realise what a cushy number this is.

The average salary for tube drivers is WAY above £37,231- you are including part timers

Bob Crow said...

@ Phil C 9.42 a.m.
THIS is my statement on the strike:

RMT doesn’t resor to industrial action lighly, that’s just a miff peddled by some sections of the meeja. The fact is that Tube workers 'ave been driven into walking out today.

Tube bosses 'ave delibrately provoked this confrontation and RMT wants the issues at the 'eart of the dispute to be resolved so that our members can get back to delivering a first class transport service.

On London Undergrarnd, bosses are freatening to tear up an agreement aimed at safeguarding jobs, and 'ave refused to rule art compulsory redundancies. Up to four farzand jobs are at risk as part of a multi billion parnd cuts package that can be traced directly back to the collapse of Metronet and the failure of the PPP.

RMT 'ave made it clear we expect mannigers to abide by agreements and we would simply not be doing our job as a union if we allared the tube to treat our members as cannon fodder oo can be 'ired an fired at will.

On pay, we 'ave arsed for the usual single year agreement. Tube chiefs attempted to impose a five year deal which would 'ave meant real terms pay cuts into the next decade. We will not be bullied into accepting that our members should be forced to pay for an economic crisis that was cooked up by the bankers and the politicians.

RMT has hexposed the ipocrisy of senior tube managers on pay when 123 of the top TFL bosses are paid over an 'undred farzand parnds plus bonuses. It is those same managers who are attacking, bullying and victimising RMT members over our campaign for job security and a living wage.

RMT is committed to a modern and safe public transport system for Londoners. That cannot be achieved by axing jobs, slashing rates of pay and imposing massive cutbacks on the Tube.

denverthen said...

Paul Halsall:

Yup :)

Anonymous said...

Why would most of them have been sacked? Withholding labour is a last resort, but legal - workers should at least have a few rights left.

Thomas Rossetti said...

I write this in the vague (or is it "vain"?) hope that Boris Johnson will read it.

DON'T GIVE IN TO BOB CROW!

Jimmy said...

"Why would most of them have been sacked? Withholding labour is a last resort, but legal - workers should at least have a few rights left."

Actually that isn't one of them. Strikers in the UK have never been protected from the sack. Wapping ring any bells?