I find it quite astonishing that there are calls today for Frank Field, Gisela Stuart and Kate Hoey to be expelled from the Parliamentary Labour Party (ie they would lose the whip) over their support for the I WANT A REFERENDUM campaign. Actually, I lied. I don't find it astonishing at all. It is all too typical of the Stalinists who run the Labour Party nowadays. To most of us, these three MPs are among the best the Labour Party has to offer - and yet they face almost daily vilification. One day they will tire of it. And when they do, I am sure that nice Mr Cameron could find a place for them on the opposite side of the House.
Monday, February 04, 2008
Labour MPs Face Explusion Call by Europhiles
I find it quite astonishing that there are calls today for Frank Field, Gisela Stuart and Kate Hoey to be expelled from the Parliamentary Labour Party (ie they would lose the whip) over their support for the I WANT A REFERENDUM campaign. Actually, I lied. I don't find it astonishing at all. It is all too typical of the Stalinists who run the Labour Party nowadays. To most of us, these three MPs are among the best the Labour Party has to offer - and yet they face almost daily vilification. One day they will tire of it. And when they do, I am sure that nice Mr Cameron could find a place for them on the opposite side of the House.
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I'm only aware of one political party which has withdrawn the whip from MPs supporting a referendum on an EU treaty in recent years. Can you guess which one it is?
A. They are not Stalinist. I haven't noticed any GuLags lately. The use of "Stalinist" in this context is as ludicrous as calling Cameron a Nazi.
B. If it is so awful to do this - then presumably you think Michael Howard was unfit to lead the Tories given what he did to Howard Flight?
You are quite right. And that was a real success, wasn't it!
As a constituent of Kate Hoey, I'd love to vote for her as our Conservative candidate; or even, giving her a more realistic chance of election, as an Independent with the Conservatives not putting up a candidate and our activists joining with others to help run her campaign. Would Cameron and co allow that in such exceptional circumstances? She is very popular with many of our members, some of whom probably already vote for her!
Failing that, I am sure she would be a very strong contender for selection as Conservative candidate in a country seat where her Countryside Alliance credentials would stand her in good stead.
Our loss would be their gain, but in such circumstances I would rather relish a Conservative Party leaflet entirely composed of a letter from Kate asking all her former supporters to vote for the Conservative candidate as her successor as our MP.
This shows Geoff '$h!tferbrains' Hoon up for the intellectual pygmy he really is. What a deeply unpleasant man he is. For him to be insulting Mr Field, who has more brains in his little finger than Hoon has in his whole head, and condescending to tell him that he is helping the opposition, when surely that is an activity at which 'mutton' Geoff excels....
Words fail me...
Well done Messrs Field, Hoey and Stuart.
Of course NuLab are Stalinists. They are doing what all Stalinists do, which is to asassinate detractors.
Also, Kate Hoey isn't bad crumpet, if you have had a couple of pints and it's the middle of the week. Ditto Gisela, but I leave Iain to commment on Frank Field's sexual charisma, but personally I wouldn't .
I read this in the Sunday Times yesterday. While I think that it's absolutely ridiculous, I think it's fair to say that everyone understands why they've done it. At a time when government popularity is very low (low 30%'s in the polls), they've got to keep their party in order. By allowing them to go against the decision of the PM, they're not keeping the party in order and consequently fear further poor ratings from the public.
The whole scenario is so difficult to manage, with bad consequences coming from whatever decision is made...
I think all three have shown themselves to be principled and courageous. Hardly surprising therefore that the NuLab monsters regard them as highly dangerous.
This move is the customary bullying of anyone with the slightest ability to cogently express a view which in the slightest deviates from the party line.
I listened to Hillary Armstrong expressing her 'view' on the vote after the abortion debate the other day. A truly ghastly example of a woman who has completely abandoned all morality, all reason. It's her sort of approach and attitude which has me reaching for my Smith and Wesson.
FedUp - They are Stalinists. This doesn't mean they have yet manifested all the other appurtenances of Soviet governance, but what they are doing to these three MPs is Stalinist. I wonder what gulag they will be sent to.
Is this the first time a politician gets kicked out of a political party for *following* their manifesto pledges???
All three of those MPs are good MPs that any party would be proud of, and any decent fair minded voter would support.
Surely, depriving these 3 of the Labour Whip for wanting to keep a manifesto promise would stir up a huge anti-Labour media fest?
Are the Labour whips stupid enough to play into the Opposition's hands like this?
ps Iain, why do you have comment moderation on all the time now? Just asking.
They would appear to be supporting an organisation threatening to stand independent candidates against Labour in 2010.
The Tory Party would do exactly the same in analogous circs.
Matt is right. The whips would lose all credibility with other "semi-awkward squad" MPs if the rebellion (for that is what it is) against the PLP's decision were swept under the carpet. No doubt colleagues will have a go at them for their self righteousness and lack of consideration, but it will also be recognised that the trio have a point re; interpretation of the manifesto and (since there seems to be no serious threat to the passage o the Treaty) that will be a end to it.
Judith, Two words. Tim. Ireland.
Don't know about G Stuart, but we should offer Hoey and Field an offer they can't refuse.
Sorry Iain, but how about Bexley for Kate?
The euroskeptic cause is an enemy of europe and a friend of the chinese. Why do they not ask for a referendum on the WTO, or the World bank? The constitution did not happen. End of story. No one has asked for the euroskeptics to be booted out of labour. We just dissagree with them.
I have long thought that Ian Duncan Smith and Frank Field are the only politicians able to reform the welfare state. Frank Field I am sure would have a welcome and serious home on the Conservative benches. Kate Hooey with her sensible views on the countryside no less.
11:02 - What's wrong with being a friend of the Chinese? Do you really think the EUSSR is going to be rich and powerful throughout this century, or do you think it is going to sink fast against China and India?
The Chinese are very clever commercially, they're inventive, they're energetic, and now they don't have rickets any more they look cute when they're dressed in shorts. What's not to like?
anon 11:02pm
The constitution did not happen.
Not yet, about to be forced thru parliament.
I don't think Labour will evict them. These are hollow threats designed to head off a possible growing rebellion over Lisbon.
If Lib Dems split, the Labour rebellion could mushroom anyway.
Right now, the rebels should stay and risk eviction as they would be the required leaders of the rebellion.
If a rebellion gets going, these three will naturally become the leaders of the next version of Labour, and head off David Cameron.
Labour could easily flip back into eurosceptic mode as they were pre-Blair. These three could trigger it.
If Hoon/Brown are dumb enough to start evictions, these three would find new homes if they wanted any.
Conservative europhiles are drifting towards Gordon Brown. A bit of traffic the other way would be no harm, but really these three could transform Labour, and that would be most valuable for the integrity of Britain's future.
11:12 China is a dictatorship . You hate europe which is a democracy and you love china which kills it's own people. Why do euroskeptics love china so much. Redwood allwsya blabberson how about how europe is patheitc compared to china. As i said you euroskeptics are enemies of europe. The chinese are not cute, to the tibetans,or the burmese.
How can you call the EU the EUssr, and then love china.
11:14 It is not the constitution. It does not have the same name.
Yak 40 - I don't think it has to be "forced" through Parliament. The unelected Gordon Brown had the impudence to sign it. It is law. There is absolutely no point in debating it in Parliament because it has already been signed and not a comma can be changed. It's a done deal. Stop thinking of the British government as a defender of Britain.
Those days are gone.
Wasn't Frank Field, your "inside man" Iain, the one who called Derek Conway an embezzler? And who suggested that if such a man worked in a HoP cafe he would have been out on his ear immediately? That was FF too. Frank is a socialist, albeit on the right of our siblinghood.
anon 12:30 am
11:14 It is not the constitution. It does not have the same name.
Wow, you're easily fooled aren't you ?
verity I was under the impression that some changes could be made but maybe it's just a charade.
11:12 I take your points. Yes, I hate the EU because it has subsumed a formerly democratic country that breathed the air of freedom and, indeed, exported it, and put it in a straightjacket, with the permission of the "government". So I hate that government, too.
China is emerging from a long period as a hated (and rightly so) outcast. But it is emerging and joining our capitalist world. They even have Ikea for the young and aspirational. It's capitalism all the way.
And we're talking of a population, mainly agrarian, of 1.2bn. Not a poncey 60m all of whom live within an hour or two of a big city. The task is massive.
I have nothing but respect for the sheer cleverness and energy of the Chinese. How they got conned into communism, I'll never understand except before we had the internet, there was little choice in such a vast territory but to centralise and send out orders with five year plans. Presumably by runners with cleft sticks.
I make no excuses. But pragmatically speaking, they are joining our world, and with Hong Kong as the window, they have found out that capitalism works better than Five Year Plans. The wealth of Hong Kong (which we should not have abandoned) has nevertheless sluiced into Guandong province and these guys are so rich they are having Rollses stolen from Hong Kong and shipped through by ferry, on order.
Anyone who has lived in a Chinese environment knows how commercially astute the Chinese are and how commercially energetic they are, and what long-term planners they are. As a people, they are brilliant wherever they settle and they always bring prosperity. Tiannamen Square is in the past. Terrible, but it's gone. Many things in history were terrible, and have gone. We have to live with the here and now.
And, in a sense, I agree about Tibet. In another, I don't. The Dalai Lama himself has said that he wants his new incarnation, the new Dalai Lama, who will be born as a new child sometime after he dies, voted on by the public rather than chosen by other lamas.
He has incorporated the present - the internet -, which is a very Buddhist thing to do.
Anyway, rather a long-winded response to your comment, but your points are legitimate and deserved a response. But the new world that we are in now includes China.
At February 04, 2008 7:28 PM , FedUp said...
A. "[New labour] are not Stalinist. I haven't noticed any GuLags lately"
Ha! ha! What do you want to call them then? Pinkos? Commies? Marxists? leninists? Trots? You are lying.
Jack Straw loony left fomer president of the NUS!
Charles Clarke another former president of the NUS
John Reid communist researcher for scottish union of students
He said he joined the communist party because it was the "only non trotskyist party on campus at Stirling university.
Peter "mandy" mandelsohn communist
went to Cuba in 1970s at English tax payers expense of course! I wonder if he fiddled with fidel!
Trevor phillips loony leftist went to Cuba with Mandy Oh er missus!!!
Alan Johnson said he was "close to communist party in his youth"
Apparently gets agitated when you claim that he was a trot!!!
Gordon Brown phD thesis on James Maxton, the leader of the independent labour party in 1920's and 1930's. This was accused of being a trot front party by Stalin.
Alan milburn former manager of a socialist bookshop in newcastle and cnd activist.
Paul Boateng left wing rebel
dennis mcshane former left wing union leader arrested on picket lines in 1970's Forced nuj's biggest strike!!
David blunkett former leader of sheffield city council when it was known as the socialist republic of south yorkshire
Margaret hodge had a bust of lenin installed in town hall islington It was known as the socialist republic of north london.
I think that proves my point.
B. If it is so awful to do this - then presumably you think Michael Howard was unfit to lead the Tories given what he did to Howard Flight?
Yes Howard was unfit. So what? I hate all three so-called main parties pal! They are all bent as a nine bob notes!
Fed up "They are not Stalinist. I haven't noticed any GuLags lately"
England is the gulag created by new labour. If wales and scotland can have a referendum to devolve from the uk, then I want a referendum to devolve England from the eu.simple as that. just for the record New, Labour hate England and the English. The sooner we are rid of this god awful government the better.
With the aid of the internet we will make sure the labour party are never elected in England again.
The only thing wrong with China is the fact that people are too scared to speak out forcefully - you may criticise, but if you are rude, the police will lock you up.
As a system of government, a capitalist republican meritocratic dictatorship, where leaders are appointed only after many years of practical experience in their specialist field, beats our rather corrupt "parliamentary democracy" hands down. You can't gain a seat in China because your dad knows some-one who can give you a leg up.
There are faults with capitalism - when confidence is knocked, everyone loses money for a start, and I do wonder what a Chinese solution to a recession would be. I can't see it including mass unemployment somehow.
BTW I lived and worked there so please don't dismiss me as a Eurosceptic - I'd much rather live here, largely because it is NOT a Stalinist country, it's a relatively free one.
To fire someone because he has broken the party whip where they stood on a party manifesto that promised it is quite proper.
Firing somebody because they had the effrontery to suggest keeping a manifesto promise is a quite different thing.
Labour & the LibDims have quite deliberately lied to the electorate on a very major issue. I trust this will be mentioned at any time in the future when any of them make any sort of promise on anything whatsoever.
Integrity is like virginity - you don't get it back.
The Labour party, which supposedly prides itself on being a 'broad church' has always been intolerant of dissent. They inherited this tradition from the trade unions, where dissenters were known as 'blacklegs' and had bricks thrown through their windows, or worse.
I am a Tory party member, and an activist who lived in the next door constituency to Kate Hoey. I was working at the Countryside Alliance at the time, working with her on a regular basis. I was hugey relieved that I didn't live in her constituency and having to chose between the women who is probably one of the best MPs in the house, and my party's own candidate.
I really wish she would cross the floor. I actually think she would be much happier with us, as she is a natural libetarian!
I am not sure about Frank Field, and I am very sceptical about Gisela Stewart!
If Kate does stand as an independent, then we should not stand against her, and should consider supporting her campaign.
I have so much respect for her because she has priciples made og graite and steel.
Annonymous 12.13. I am deeply eurosceptic, but despise the Chinest regime precisiely because of the reasons you mention.
However, the EU has (alarmingly) many similarities with the Chinese political system. The EU has increasing political power with rapidly shrinking democratic checks and balances.
I can only think of half a dozen or so Labour MPs for which I have much respect and these are three of them.
I'd welcome them crossing the floor.
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