Thursday, August 23, 2007

They Go Because They Can

I think it was Churchill who said that to be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life. The ensuing decades have not proved him wrong, despite huge changes in the social and demographic makeup of the country. So why are 200,000 people a year leaving these islands for a life elsewhere in the world?

The simple answer is because they can. The barriers to travel which used to exist have been pulled down and peoples' horizons have altered. Affluence brings with it a different worldview and a thirst to experience different lifestyles. It also results in more people wanting to come here, and who can blame then?

We hear a lot about people saying they have had enough of this country and will move abroad. I bet few of them do and they make up a small fraction of the 200,000. Sometimes when I listen to Gordon Brown I too am tempted, but I remember my experience of living in Germany for two years in the 1980s. I had a great time but I knew I would always want to return to the UK. There were to many things I missed. The internet makes things easier in terms of communication, but nothing can ever replicate the lifestyle.

So, dear reader, if for some reason you had to emigrate, where would you go? I'd head for either Colorado or Switzerland, I think.


dizzy said...

A greek island

Not that Nick Wood said...


Anonymous said...

Mystras in Southern Greece. It's the nearest place to heaven I've ever seen.

Anonymous said...

It was Cecil Rhodes who said it, not Churchill. And sorry to be NuLab, but Tuscany (or Switzerland).

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Think I'd go to India. Money to be made and all that.

Anonymous said...

ID.. there are lots of things I would miss about the UK, but having reached the age where a decent pint of real ale is no longer critical, I would go just about anywhere but the UK.

Standards have fallen to such an extent in every area of UK life,
it no longer appeals to me, although it would always be my mother Country, I would never switch citizenship.
If I had the money, I think New Zealand would offer the best bet...
I'd have to ship a few thousand bottles of decent bordeaux with me though...

Anonymous said...

Cecil Rhodes, if I am not mistaken.

And, as Dizzy says, Rhodes is probably as good a place as any. Or, failing that, one could just hit the road, Jack....

Anonymous said...

Cecil Rhodes I believe...

Smith said...

Thought it was Rhodes.

Man in Whitehall said...

It was Cecil Rhodes who said it.

Vindico said...

Wearing you rose coloured contact lenses again? I can quite understand why some people want to leave. Political correctness, incompetent and lying politicians, high taxes, bad education, stretched NHS, nanny state, crime, erosion of liberties etc etc. No wonder a quarter of the 200,000 are foreing nationals - they arrive then realise what a dump we are becoming.

I have half a mind to join them and disappear to a nice hot country with a small government and lots of freedom!

Man in Whitehall said...

It was Cecil Rhodes who said it.

Smith said...

I lived in Prague and had to be forced on the plane back home after my placement.

Anonymous said...

I think it was actually Cecil Rhodes who said: 'Remember you are an Englishman; and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life'.

Anonymous said...

Iain, If you read the comments on pages like this, you will understand what drives UK citizens abroad. It's a fairly depressing read.

Malcolm Redfellow said...

"First prize in the lottery of life"

Interesting one that: you attribute it to Churchill, who is the mouth of last resort for any modern aphorism. I have also seen it awarded to Rudyard Kipling, for similar reasons.

I think its recent currency may stem from Peter Ustinov in Dear Me (1977), who in turn put it in the mouth of Cecil Rhodes. Hence, it turns up repeatedly in college essays and blogs with the citation of "Rhodes to a young friend". However, is there a definite sighting before Ustinov?

Anonymous said...

" They Go Because They Can " (get away from this s******e created by New Labour - work still in progress).

David Lindsay said...

Perhaps they are just sick of having to pay not only the tax that they'd have to anyway, but also the shortfall caused by the practical exemption of the immensely rich? A very interesting conclusion last night to the Radio Four series Hecklers, summer filler of the slot normally occupied by The Moral Maze. This edition was about the non-domicile tax rules.

I honestly thought that one of the defenders of this racket was going to burst into tears as he flailed about trying to cope with the concept that, yes, these rules are in fact a subsidy, just like the ones that governments in the Sixties and Seventies used to pay to loss-making factories and the like, except that those were to protect the jobs of large numbers of tax-paying Britons rather than to protect the lavish lifestyles of a tiny number of tax-dodging foreigners.

He was like the private schools lobby whenever anyone dares to point out that almost all such institutions would close overnight if it were not for gigantic public subsidies through the tax system, utterly unused to being spoken to in such terms, and practically reduced to blubbering if anyone does so.

The non-doms manage to run businesses in numerous other countries without needing to live in them. But then, only the United Kingdom and the Irish Republic have this bizarre concept of domicile, making London the only one of the great cities of the world where such arrangements are in place.

And these people consciously wish to live in one of the great cities of the world, or else why do they all live in or very near to London, rather than anywhere else in Britain? So the idea that they would move if they were made to pay tax is absurd – where would they go?

And in any case, they wouldn’t take their investments with them: I say again, they already have investments all over the place.

Ed Keohane said...

Boulder, Colorado
or Vancouver

Anonymous said...

In some ways it is easier to live abroad. It many other ways it has become far harder and more expensive.

If you are rich it has always been an option to live elsewhere. For the typical British working person with no or little equity, quite frankly not even India would let them anywhere near the place, and who could blame them?

My 3 year old son should be looking forward to life on MARS

In my experience, if you have a reasonable amount of cash, just about anywhere is better then here.

If you do NOT everywhere, is to different degrees, dangerous violent very hard work repressive and generally no fun.

The poorer half of this country are stuck here for better or worse. So Gordon better make this country a better place and start yesterday, or god help them. Because you can be sure he will not be giving the British people any type of a chance to have a go at the problem for themselves.

This countries particular socialist inspired 'road to serfdom' has come to its end for the greater number of its citizens.

They have to like this place I DONT

Anonymous said...

Manningtree :-)

Anonymous said...

why stay and be taxed to the hilt by a corrupt government that intrudes ever further into your daily life??

Anonymous said...


pxcentric said...

It is far too simplistic to suggest that people emigrate "because they can", like a dog that has just learned a new trick.

We do not go to France on holiday, or Zurich or Colorada for that matter, just because it is possible. We go because we will, in some way, be better for having been there.

This is a country taken to war on a false premise. The government routinely ignores and lies to the voters. We are daily spied upon and the government wish to fingerprint us and add our DNA to a database so we can all be treated with suspicion every time a crime is committed.

Our capital is one of the most expensive cities in the world and the cost of living in the UK, if you include the cost of housing which, unlike the government, we must, makes debt the only way in which many can afford the lifestyle you laud. Personal debt, according to today's Telegraph, now exceeds GDP.

I suggest it is for reasons connected with all this that many people move abroad. They feel they will be better off for having done so.

strapworld said...

Nowadays once has to REMEMBER your an Englishman. According to our kilted prime minister we are all British!

England is soon to disappear! all helped along by this Government and all political parties who support the EU. Traitors all!!

Canvey Island is my choice.

Manfarang said...

It was Cecil Rhodes that said to be born an Englishman was to win first prize in the lottery.
Some would say one can only be a true Englishman if you live abroad.
People have been emigrating from Britain for years.Indeed an emigrant could at one time buy a special ticket for Austalia for ten pounds sterling.
Anyway Thailand is not too bad a place to live, plenty of som tam.

Unsworth said...

Boulder, Colorado - or Cala de San Vicenc on the North-East tip of Majorca.

Boulder for the City, the people, the Front Range, the drive up Deer Trail with its fine views, winter snow and summer heat.

Cala de San Vicenc for the peaceful and quiet winters, rugged coast, pine trees, the people, the seafood and chilled fino.

Machiavelli's Understudy said...

I don't think it's just 'because they can'. I would suggest that it's because they actually want to.

I'm planning on doing the same, but I'm in the situation where "I can't". I'm young, I need to be able to afford to set myself up abroad, I need to learn the appropriate language and, of course, I need to ensure I can earn a living (which, given that I specialise in a niche area, might be more difficult than usual).

Anyway, ideally, in this loose order:

1. Santorini, Greece
2. Nearly anywhere Greek
3. Australia
4. Maybe New Zealand
5. Canada
6. Chicago

Somewhere that feels spacious, a home that isn't a shoebox and a quality of life that means I can afford to treat myself now and again. Brown and Prescott have made sure I can have none of that.

Ralph said...

Whale Beach, just north of Sydney.

Liberal Republican said...

North Korea

Anonymous said...

Switzerland, without a doubt: the localist's utopia! Good food, beautiful countryside and culture. Genuine and interested political engagement. No EU regulation of fruit geometry. And best of all - no noisy lawn-mowing on Sunday! :)

To be honest, though, Blighty suits me just fine. I shan't be going anywhere just yet!

Anonymous said...

I'm sure all the locations mentioned so far will welcome with open arms the bus loads of chavs and benefit claimants who are sadly leaving our shores to seek a new life abroad.

Hannibal said...

I'd go to California for reasons of family, climate (beaches, forests, skiing and deserts) and attitude.

Of course there is another question, Iain, not where would you go or what would make you, but (as the post below asks) what would make you STAY?

I can't find very much to be honest.

Tim Worstall said...

I've tried Russia, the US and now Portugal. Wouldn't do the US again but would pretty much anywhere in Southern Europe or the old Eastern Bloc.
My major driver is that I hate, absolutely detest, bureaucracy, paperwork, being told what to do in the trivia of life.
So it looks rather odd that I like places which traditionally have had a great deal more of it than the UK. However, there's a huge difference: in the UK (and even more so in the US) people actually take it seriously. Instead of regarding it all as an alien imposition by the bureaucratic class, something to ignore whenever possible, in the UK people actually expect you to obey all the nonsense. Telling some paperpusher to bugger off is regarded as social deviancy, rather than the badge of honour it is in more rational places.
The reason is that traditionally, we didn't have much of such nonsenses: what we did have was important and we obeyed it.
Until the UK either lifts the burden or adopts a much more insouicant attitude to clipboard wielders it'll continue to be an unpleasant place to live.

kinglear said...

Got to be Trabsylvania or Tuscany - the one for tranquility and simplicity, the other for culture and food

Anonymous said...

I choose not to live in England because I am tired of living in a nanny state where the taxes are ridiculous, the crime is out of control, and my standard of living is half as good as living in the US.

I live in New York City, and whilst I will always be proud to be an Englishman, I am not proud of England (especially when it's run by a Scot and London is run by a Trot).

Anonymous said...

"So why are 200,000 people a year leaving these islands for a life elsewhere in the world?

"The simple answer is because they can."

This won't do Iain. Opportunity must be accompanied by motivation.

For example, you CAN choose to give up blogging. But you don't WANT to.

(I hope you do keep blogging by the way)

So if to live on this island is less attractive than before, it makes good sense to ask why. Maybe the best people to ask are those who are leaving.

Anonymous said...

New Zealand New Zealand New Zealand

South Island South Island South Island

Scipio said...

Slovenia - just by Lake Bonhij! One of the most amazing places in Europe. Great winter sports, and a wonderful lake to go fishing and swimming in during the summer.

Fantastic wine, good local beer and great food. Ah, and only 1.5 hrs to London!

And Iain, great golf!

Anonymous said...

comon Iain

you said England in the lottery of like and then later wanted to return to the UK with these expanding units you are refering to soon anywhere inthe EU will do you ...

You are lucky indeed to be English

Scipio said...

Oh...Lake Kivu on the border between DMC and Rwanda is also fairly tempting.

Not good commuting though!

Anonymous said...

I came to England for the live and let live lifestyle 20 years ago, and it was lovely to just be myself without being the odd one out.

And yes, I'll go because I can, as soon as it's financially possible for me. I've 25 more years to settle properly into a community as a full member, and to build up a real pension and make health care provisions. I would be stupid to waste this time investing into the UK's broken systems and being guaranteed to get ripped off for my troubles. I'm cutting lose 20 years of financial and personal investment in this country to leave, not an easy decision, I so hate doing it, but, the England I came to live in is no longer the wonderful place that it was once. Besides that, all my friends are leaving too...

Iain, you sound as if you think that this kind of calculation and real fear for our future is not one of the biggest factors of the current exodus of middle class Brits. It makes me think that this is one of the reasons why people are leaving too -- they feel powerless to make the changes that are needed and that no-one cares about what is dear to them -- if even Tories say 'there is nothing wrong', and 'who really cares about English culture' then England is truly lost in and to apathy.

I'll send you a postcard, from Ireland or America...

Ps.: it took me about 10 years hard work before I had learnt to be English, and to understand English people properly. There is far more than just language in communications, but also the many social patterns and little details that you need to know to fit in. This is an integral part of 'Englishness' -- you are losing way more than just people, speaking English and being English is not the same thing! Right now the UK is losing an entire town full of English middle class people every year, who not only are top tax payers but also the very people who make any community happen. A lot of those people would have voted for the Tories, if only the Tories had something to vote for... :(

Pps.: And having this kind of thing told you by a German should really make you think. Verkehrte Welt, eh?

Old BE said...

Plage de Lestrevet, Brittany.

Scipio said...

Smith: If you were forced on a plane from Prague, I suspect that in Ljubljana, they would have to drugg you and you onto the plane unconscious!

Turkey is also fantastic. Especially on the coast. I was also quite taken with Mount Panarsos, north of Athens (very near Delphi). Great skiing in the winter and blisteringly hot in the summer. There is a little village called Arahova! Well worth a visit.

Pogo said...

I'm planning on leaving completely in the next year or so,as it is I live outside the UK for about a third of the year.

As to where to go? I'm mulling over five options at the moment... France or Spain because I can speak the languages, I'm also with "Dizzy" in that the Greek islands sound rather idyllic and have a couple of friends who've moved there and are as happy as the proverbial "pigs in ...". Downside of the above three countries is that they're in the EU...

India could be interesting, somewhere like Darjeeling for it's "European" climate maybe...

The final option, get a bigger boat and become an upmarket "New-Age Traveller". :-)

Anonymous said...

San Diego.

Average temp 68.

Need I say more.

Also I would not have to worry about what Nushite Labour is doing to this septic isle.

Certainly not Aussie, who would want to live in the biggest open prison in the world?

Anonymous said...

the message of this thread is - turn right DC, turn right.

Mulligan said...

Scotland, so the people that still have real jobs in England can start subsiding me instead of the other way around....

Otherwise anywhere in EU that doesn't take every line of every half baked diktat as gospel. (leaving anywhere but UK)

Anonymous said...

Actually I'd say most of them go because the quality and cost of life in the UK is, in a word, shit, and that the majority will stay abroad unless ill health or old age forces them back. I spent most of the 90s abroad, and as far as I'm concerned my current stay here in the UK is only temporary.

Chris Paul said...

Ah, Les Hautes Alpes ... big mountains are brilliant - and that is official Labour of Love policy.

Sadly missed a chance to go to a snow conference in Colorado when I was tasked with minding a small glacier in British Columbia while the more senior experts got the trip.

Swiss National Day was celebrated on that glacier with the usual ritual of night skiing with seeing in the dark elixir (strong spirits). As a non skier at the time I had to run around the glacier making sure the skiers were kept topped up at the required level for good visibility.

Naturally they were skiing mostly on ice for a greater frisson.

Jungfraujoch is certainly a hot favourite and would be a great place to sit and blog.

The Hochalpineforsshungstation being a useful eerie.

I think we should also remember that Brits have had pretty free movement around the plant for 200 years and more and possibly wonder why this isn't as reciprocated as it perhaps ought to be.

Andrew Cooper said...

Great to see so many patriots amongst the (presumably tory) posters here! Unbelievable yet, at the same time, exactly what I'd expect. Think not of what you can do for your country, bugger off to Tuscany/Greece/just about anywhere else. Is that Winston Churchill whirring in his grave?

(Tim Worstall says that he a. hates petty bureacracy and b. wants to live in southern Europe. Does not compute!)

Paul Burgin said...

The only way I would leave this country is if we lived under a brutal dictatorship, but if I would emigrate it would either be Ireland, Canada, or the South of France
Mind you, Norway looks tempting as well!

Anonymous said...

The ones that always make me laugh are those who say, without an hint of irony, that the reason they are leaving the country is cause of the immigrants.

Peter Risdon said...

The news wasn't about the absolute quantity of migration, it was about the increase. Your post was just disingenuous.

Michaelcd said...

After listening to Jon Gaunt's radio show at lunchtime I completely disagree with you, Iain. Everyone of them, be they heading for Canada, Australia or Spain, complained about the same things: immigration, tax, cost of living, crime etc.

Mobility has very little to do with our current situation.

John Trenchard said...

definitely Switzerland. i quite like their democratic system and the right to bear arms. plus being outside of the EU but near to Italy and France is an added bonus. very low crime levels in switzerland too.

Ralph said...

It says a lot about New labour's rule that more people are leaving now than just after the last war when places like Australia were almost begging people to come.

Anonymous said...

I would split my time between the Virgin Islands and New York City.

Anonymous said...

If the 200,000 emigrants is a government figure, I'd make the assumption that it's on the low side. They lie. If it's from Migration Watch, I'd trust it.

Anonymous 4:19 - They don't let you own property in India. And there is absolutely no way round it. You can only rent.

I think Mexico's a good choice. It's a vast country with every kind of scenery and climate to choose from. You can have the Pacific, the heart-stoppingly beautiful Sierra Madre, you can have dry desert, the humidity of the Gulf of Mexico, beautiful and elegant colonial cities - very well-maintained state capitals - built in the mid-1500s by the Conquistadores before the US had any major cities.

Supermarket prices are about the same as in the US, meaning half what they cost in Britain.

They definitely do not want passengers and they make you jump through hoops to get permission to stay. Then you have to go through it all again the following year, because they only grant you a year at a time.

They want to make damn sure your circumstances haven't changed and you can support yourself and will not attempt to be a burden on the Mexican taxpayer.

I feel sorry for Cinammon - although I'm sure he doesn't feel sorry for himself. What a shame to take so much trouble to settle into a culture that watch as it disintegrates before you eyes. I hope you find a wonderful place to live, Cinammon!

towcestarian said...

Anywhere where your personal wealth makes you at least 10 times richer than the locals, and the local government has a laisser faire attitude to regulation but a draconian attitude to law enforcement.

Anonymous said...

Not sure increased mobility has much to do with it. In the 19th century, when it took ten days to get to America or Canada, 9 million people left the British Isles, most of their own free will.

Anyway, if I had to leave, I'd go to the California coast or SE Australia. I imagine I could tolerate Andalucia, Vancouver or parts of South Africa too. But I'd always think of London, the great, grimy city, as home.

Praguetory said...

The answer isn't because they can, we always could. Interesting that the left wingers seem more prepared to stick it out, but then tolerating mediocrity comes naturally. I remain hopeful for the UK despite the mess Labour are creating, but I think that successful companies and people voting with their feet is a good thing. In this globalised world things move very fast and the UK has fallen behind very quickly in economic and social terms and will continue to do so whilst Labour remain in charge.

Anonymous said...

Independent Scotland.

Anonymous said...

They Also Come Because They Can. Boy, do they come.

Andrew Cooper said...

Here's one charmer - currently in Orlando, but on the move again apparently.

We're better off without him.

Tapestry said...

Inheritance Tax and Council Tax combined with high cost of living pushes people out, along with crime, regulation, stroppy people and the depressing aspects of gang culture, criminality surging and poor education of the young. The NHS kills too many - such as poor old John Biffen contracting MRSA in Shrewsbury Hospital. Where is the dignity of life for the middle aged and the old in Britain?

That said, I do live abroad and often miss the UK. British culture is unique and is worth fighting to save if we can from eurocratisation and left wing politics.

I have an illness of the nervous system which the NHS does not acknowledge (courtesy of NICE the quango that decides who lives and who dies in Britain) and which does better in a gentle outdoor culture such as the Philippines.

There are many Brits who've been out since the 1960s. It's like going to visit Britain 40 years ago in the City - or going back in time to the 14th century as far as the provinces go. And it costs bugger all to have a good quality of life.

Tuscan Tony said...

Andrew Cooper 6.17pm

Your points:

a. I did think what I could have done for my country, but unlike our state-employed socialist friends I had short holidays and more importantly a need to work, and most crucially a requirement by my shareholders to produce a meaningful result at the end of the day to ensure bread on the table. This makes lots of evening and weekend political activism rather tricky. In any case, I lived near Haslemere in deep blue West Sussex and to have had an impact on local politics would have had to move somewhere rather more scaly and labourite, perhaps Brighton.

b. Bureaucracy here in Tuscany has very little impact on everyday life, as no-one takes any notice of most government edicts. The Italians are far more libertarian as a result, not everything is done with the approval oif/through the machinery of the state acting as as "dishonest broker", as it is now in England.

. said...

The couple on BBC Breakfast this morning were leaving the UK and heading to Australia. I think they said it was because the schools were better.

Anonymous said...

it's true, only become English the moment you set foot on foreign soil. You hear the word England and English, it dissapears the moment you get back.

Anonymous said...

I always considered myself proud to be British and remained so despite the trials and tribulations which Labour subjected our country to. For a while things seemed to get better as Maggie Thatcher rescued our country from communism in all but name. Unfortunately all good things come to an end and the cultural Marxists who, despite Maggie, never stopped undermining our country, were able to accelerate their advance once she was gone. Although the concept of Britishness had long been undermined by "progressive" forces long before New Labour gained power, once in power it became a dead letter. By then though the cultural Marxists had already moved on to their next target: Englishness. If only I could I would have left this country years ago.

Anonymous said...

"The simple answer is because they can"

That is certainly a simple answer and most certainly correct - they would not leave if they were unable to.

DiscoveredJoys said...

Rural Dorset or the Isle of Wight. Yes I know they are in the UK, but they are both like England used to be 20 years ago.

Anonymous said...

We fell in love with Vancouver, but takes 4 years to get there (immigration, not by boat). Fell adulterously on love with Melbourne instead, secured residency in 6 months and leave for a new life in 6 weeks. Why? The UK is heading towards a national police state, yet cannot police locally. Living in Nottingham, I don't have to look too far for too long to see crime happening, and while I get a parking ticket for being 3 mins late, the guy I just saw stealing a bike will receive no punishment and will feel no shame.
I walk to work and get abused by the local winos, safe in the knowledge that my taxes are paying, not only for their cider, but for their human right to be there and mock me.
Politicians are faceless and without principle, no one will call it as it is...Howard calls Mugabe a grubby dictator...Jack Straw shakes his hand.
Do I need to go on?!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9.17pm
research the following. All absolutely accurate!

Common Purpose (CP)
- a hidden menace in our government and schools
Although it has 80,000 trainees in 36 cities, 18,000 graduate members and enormous power,
Common Purpose is largely unknown to the general public.
It recruits and trains "leaders" to be loyal to the directives of Common Purpose and the EU, instead
of to their own departments, which they then undermine or subvert, the NHS being an example.
Common Purpose is identifying leaders in all levels of our government to assume power when our
nation is replaced by the European Union, in what they call �the post democratic society.� They are
learning to rule without democracy, and will bring the EU police state home to every one of us.
Common Purpose is also the glue that enables fraud to be committed across these government
departments to reward pro European local politicians. Corrupt deals are enabled that put property
or cash into their pockets by embezzling public assets.
It has members in the NHS, BBC, the police, the legal profession, the church, many of Britain�s
8,500 quangos, local councils, schools, social services, the Civil Service, government ministries,
Parliament, and it controls many RDA's (Regional Development Agencies).
Cressida Dick is the Common Purpose senior police officer who authorised the "Shoot to kill" policy
without reference to Parliament, the law or the British Constitution. Jean de Menezes was one of
the innocents who died as a result. Her shoot to kill policy still stands today.
Common Purpose trained Janet Paraskeva, the Law Society's Chief Executive Officer. Surprising
numbers of lawyers are CP members. It is no coincidence that justice is more expensive, more
flawed and more corrupt. And no surprise the courts refused to uphold the law, when a challenge
was made to the signing of the six EU treaties, which illegally abolish Britain's sovereignty.
Common Purpose is backed by John Prescott's Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (ODPM), and
its Chief Executive is Julia Middleton. The Head of the Civil Service Commission is a member
It is close to controlling Plymouth City Council, where is has subverted the democratic process.
Local people cannot get CP's corrupt activities published, because the editors of local papers are in
CP, and refuse to let journalists publish the articles.
The power of councillors is being usurped nationally by council executives, as CP substitutes
�expert officers� and swamps councillors with paperwork and directives. The ODPM�s councillor
monitoring officers can remove councillors who don�t comply, or try to stand up for democracy.
CP started in 1985; in the 1990�s, with its members' cross departmental influence, it was involved
with what then became the disastrous New Millennium Dome Company and the squandering of
�800 million; it appears �300m of this was diverted into the web of quangos set up by CP. There is
a fraud case over this, stalled in the courts thanks to CP's influence in the legal profession.
Over �100 million of our money has been spent on CP courses alone, and its been hidden from the
public, and members names are a guarded secret. It charges substantial figures for its courses.
Matrix for example costs �3,950 plus VAT, and courses for the high flying �leader� can be as much
as �9,950 plus VAT. This money is ours, paid by government departments financing senior staff to
become agents for CP, instead of loyal to their own jobs.
Common Purpose (Ltd by guarantee, No. 2832875) is registered as charity No. 1023384. Given it
targets the powerful, and charges expensive fees, its charity status stinks and should be revoked.
Potential Common Purpose subjects are selected for training. Are they susceptible to being
converted; are they in the right job, with the right colleagues and friends? Do they have power,
influence and the control of money? If the candidate has some, or all of these key attributes, then
the local Common Purpose Advisory Board decides if they can do the course.
Common Purpose - training our future EU rulers - continued
Trained leaders are encouraged to act as a network, enable other members' plans, and have
meetings under the so called Chatham House rules. This effectively means their statements are
not attributable to them, nor can attendees reveal information heard at a Common Purpose
Council Officers are having secret meetings with, for example, property developer Common
Purpose friends. No agendas and no minutes. Common Purpose Graduates from the public
quango sectors such as the Regional Development Agencies attend, and have the power to award
large sums of public money to projects.
It is the worst national example of cronyism, closed contract bids, fraud and corruption. And
unseen to the general public.
Common Purpose undermines traditionally effective and efficient government departments with an
overwhelming influx of new language, political correctness and management initiatives. The talk is
of empowering communities, vision, worklessness, mainstreaming (sucking EU money into a
project to sustain it), community empowerment, working partnership, regeneration and celebrating
diversity etc etc. Documents appear about change, and reorganisation.
As CP �leaders� become more senior they employ countless managers and bureaucrats. In time
confusion rules, and things don�t seem to work properly. Management decisions are made that
seem stupidly destructive. The organisation�s performance becomes sluggish. Undermining the
NHS is Common Purpose�s biggest success so far, with bureaucrats outnumbering hospital staff
three to one.
David Cameron, who is pro Europe, uses the language and techniques of Common Purpose
against the Conservative Party. He has appointed Ken Clarke, the most committed of the pro
Europeans, in charge of his �Democracy Taskforce� - rather like putting the cat in charge of the
safety of mice.
Common Purpose specifically targets children from the age of 13, and more recently younger, for
special leadership and citizenship training. Yes, it is active in schools, and again the average
parent has no idea.
People have contacted us to speak of their experiences with Common Purpose. A common theme
is its all sweetness and light, until you fail to follow the direction set by the CP leadership.
Then interesting things happen. Ladies in particular have been bullied at work, some have lost their
jobs, some have become paranoid and depressed at the pressure from people ganging up on
A typical story is a husband describing the decline in his wife from the time she becomes a
Common Purpose graduate. Loss of sparkle, enthusiasm, anxious and �changed�, and she initiated
a divorce.
Other Common Purpose people lie when they are challenged as to their involvement.
Common Purpose candidates are given a two day residential course in which they are �trained� in a
closed residential environment, such as a small hotel. They are encouraged to reveal personal
information about themselves, such as their likes, dislikes, ambitions and dreams. Discussions are
then controlled by the course leaders. Some participants have likened this to Delphi technique or
the application of group psychology such as Cognitive Dissonance or brainwashing.
If you suspect Common Purpose is active in your organisation, or see a pattern of incredibly bad
decisions, money being wasted, notice bullying, fraud, or threats, note the names of those
involved (we've tracked down over a thousand) and please contact us. And publish the truth about
Common Purpose as widely as you can.
Brian Gerrish 07841 464187, David Noakes 07974 437097; for action.

Anonymous said...

Personally I would go to Brugge, a great city.

At the end of Eurostar, but always good towards the English. Just look at it's history.

It would mean we could during the summer visit Lords and the Oval easily.

Most people who love England are in crisis, because we have a governement who wants to destroy England, he is Scots. Perhaps he follows James 1 (6th) in his ways!

CityUnslicker said...

I think this is simplistic Iain. Do you belive the Government when they say having massive migration is the best thing since sliced bread and absolutley nothing to worry about?

of course people leave for their own reasons. The danger is WHO leaves and WHAT they are replaced by in the population. It is a cultural change issue as well as an economic one.

oh, and Santa Barbara.

Old BE said...

they would not leave if they were unable to

And no doubt Labour would have a system of uncontrolled immigration and no migration if they could.

Andrew Cooper has it totally wrong: Successive Labour governments have successfully got rid of many of the people they don't like from these shores and they are doing it again now. Once you export the thinkers, the remainder are more pliable into your way of thinking. Kenya Groundnut scheme anyone?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:17 - Agreed. Look at everyone in the cabinet. They are all Trots and they all despise the British and despise pride in country. They have diluted Britishness and our ancient culture with malign intensity. They are toxic, vile, sub-human. Blair's one of them and I saw it in his face the first time I saw him on TV.

Anyway, sauve qui peu because it is not going to get better. If you think Dave has any intention of fishing you out of the EU cauldron, that would be an unfortunate misapprehension.

Anonymous said...

The best thing to do in these troubled times is to commit this to memory:

"The Stock Exchange will be pulled down, the horse plough will give way to the tractor, the country houses will be turned into children’s holiday camps, the Eton and Harrow match will be forgotten, but England will still be England, an everlasting animal stretching into the future and the past, and, like all living things, having the power to change out of recognition and yet remain the same."

Johnny Norfolk said...

I can understand people leaving britain as many things are not being attened to by those in power.

The attraction of Switzerland is that is the only country in the world that has been finnished.

I have lived in Germany and France for a total of 4 years and could not wait to get back to Britain so for all its faults its home and the best people in the world. So my advice to anyone thinking of leaving. Try it first without burning your boats.

The problem with Britain is that we have far to much self loathing as shown by Livinstone today crying about Londons role in slavery

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Where would I go Iain? To what I regard as my home town, where I grew up from 2 months to 8 years old, to Beirut, in the Lebanon.

That said, I like this country, and I think that not only can I make something of me here, but I can make something of the country.

Laban said...

Ian, you're wrong, and most of the posters are right.

And even were you right, a look at the Telegraph link should make you wonder why the message isn't getting through - look at hundreds of posts from Tories all pretty much saying the same thing :

a) England is on its way down the tubes and it won't/can't be stopped
b) either
i) we've left, thank God
ii) we want to leave
iii) we're too old and wish we'd left before

You seem pretty easy about it all - I sense real desperation and disillusionment out there.

Perhaps the fact that you have no children makes you more optimistic/less realistic. Its surprising how fatherhood concentrates the mind on the essentials. Andrew Anthony in the Guardian is just the latest leftie to find the new baby stirs new thinking.

Personally, I'm too old to emigrate (50 being the cutoff for most) but am very worried about what kind of country the kids will grow up in - and desperate that they get qualified so that they can leave if things go pearshaped.

Chris Paul said...

You lot should try the Socialist Republic of Manchester where the world is a so much happier place than wherever you lot live.

But to visit Manila and Mindoro (Philipines) combination is not a bad combo. Little sea plane (3-seater) commute for 200US one way. £35 a head. Not sure I agree with the level of throw back specified though.

Manila has Makati - a bustling business centre and bar strip - and also yes quite a throw back for the rest of the streets and suburbs. But some of the resorts e.g. Puerto Galera on Mindoro have wifi broadband.

bgprior said...

"The simple answer is because they can"

I can stab myself in the leg with a fork, but I don't. Opportunity is no explanation for why someone chooses a particular course of action.

What a splendidly panglossian interpretation of mass exodus - they are leaving their families, friends and homes behind because they've just got a bit of wanderlust. They didn't go earlier because they didn't realise that they could until the last couple of years - foreign travel being such a recent phenomenon, 'n all.

People are leaving Britain because it's turning into a shithole. People are arriving because, however bad it's got, it's nowhere near as bad as the shitholes created by authoritarianism and interventionism in Africa, Asia or Eastern Europe. But give it time...

What makes me want to laugh or cry is that people hold out the fact that plenty of immigrants want to come here as evidence that Britain is still a great place to live. I'm sure it is, if your yardstick is Bulgaria or Somalia, but that's not the highest accolade.

I'd say Chile, Estonia, or Switzerland, but realistically, it's got to be English-speaking, so somewhere like New England, maybe. It's depressing how there are no real anglophone, classical-liberal options.

Anonymous said...

fI permanently left England in 1973, I was 22 years old. I wanted to live under a 'big sky' with a people who believed in and encouraged success. Even though I left the U.K., I have kept in touch via websites, online newspapers, magazines and cable tv. But not anymore. The country is truly going down the toilet and most people only seem too eager to flush it down! If thats what the people want - okay - but I don't have the stomach any longer to read about it.

Anonymous said...

Laban, that was a sad post and I don't know what you do for a living, but too old to 'emigrate' to France, for example, at 50? Surely not! And your children will grow up bilingual which will make them automatically more desirable as employees. Or anywhere else in Europe where you have automatic right of settlement?

When I moved from England to France, all I did was pack my bags and put my cats in their carriers and go. The container of my household possessions took a few weeks to come - especially as the officious British movers - why, in the name of God, are the British so petty and nasty? - had delayed my shipment by taking several household cleaners out of my crates as being "dangerous" on board a ship or "forbidden" by the French. Yeah. Right. Like the French give a merde.

If you can get out, and have a portable talent and children eager to absorb everything new, go! You will not get a bonus in kind from the Trots for staying. Your rights and the value of your contribution will be continually diluted in favour of "incomers" who "need" housing, medical care, schooling and pocket money.

The destruction of Britain is well underway.

If you can find a way to go, GO!

Anonymous said...

My post on the DT blog:

I currently live in a Third World country but here's the rub, I only pay Third World prices whereas in Britain you pay First World prices to live in a Third World society.

There are many similarities of course.

Just as back home, here, the government run hospitals are grim and unhealty places where patients are left unattended for days in squalor. But I don't pay a sizable chunk of my income to finance this service unlike in the UK. Instead I pay to use the top class facilities of a private hospital where for a fraction of what I would pay back home I get to see the doctor of my choice when I want in spanking modern CLEAN conditions.

There are criminals here too, the difference is that the local police aren't hamstrung by human rights legislation and will consequently beat the living daylights out of them. On the other hand if I get stopped speeding there are no penalty points, no DNA swabs, no speed cameras just a small "donation" to the Police Benevolent Fund from me and it's a doffed cap and a "thank you sir, mind how you go now", just like the old days.

There are murders too, but the victims' families get the satisfaction of knowing that the perpetrators will be dangling from a rope by year's end. Foreign criminals are deported, well except for the drug smugglers, they get the firing squad. On that point all arrivals and departures are logged by computer by the immigration department, anyone whom the government doesn't like gets kept out because the country is independent and their government is sovereign and not subject to foreign courts. Anyone who overstays gets thrown out and refused re-entry.

There are occasional Muslim terror attacks, the police response is to shoot the terrorists on sight, innocent Brazilian tourists are spared. Foreign terror suspects are deported (if they're lucky).

Private homosexuality is tolerated, any attempt however to teach it to nine year olds would result in the school being burnt down. Despite this deficit in their educations the children manage to leave school being able to read and write. While at school the children dress in simple spotless uniforms, face their teachers in rows of desks and any bad behaviour results in the cane, there is little bad behaviour.

Local rates are a pittance so unfortunately the local council can't afford to employ legions of Gay Lesbian and Transgendered Outreach workers but the rate payers put up with this lack of service by accepting daily household rubbish collection instead.

All government documents are written in the one official national laguage as they have the quaint old fashioned notion that if a foreigner chooses to live here they should have the decency to learn the language or at the very least pay for their own translation service.

There is a vibrant cultural life as people are fiercely patriotic and proud of their culture, they learn the history of their nation from a young age and show great respect to their flag.

It is safe to walk the streets at night, old people are considered the most respected in society and children are cherished and loved.

It's hell out here in the Third World folks, however curiously I won't be returning to the UK any time soon.

Anonymous said...

This is from a Dilbert cartoon about a dysfunctional company, so probably applies to the UK as well :

Question: How do you recognise your best people ?
Answer: They leave.

Vienna Woods said...

What one must understand is that 25 years ago we were in the middle of the second “brain-drain” when many of the UK’s skilled and highly qualified people were written off at the age of 40 in favour of young graduates who were quite simply “cheaper”. For the over 40’s the chances of employment were minimal with the blossoming recruitment agencies, also staffed by fresh faced graduates of the day, actually advising companies against the over 40’s. A totally bizarre set of excuses such as, “over qualified” and “inflexible” became buzzwords of the day and the UK’s engineering and manufacturing sector began its long drying up process due to lack of talent and experience.
When my UK company decided to reduce staff, my department was axed and for almost one frustrating and demoralizing year I could not find work. So, at 46 years of age with two kids at university and my other half deceased, I made my escape to Austria. I doubled my UK salary immediately and within a few years formed my own company which I sold three years ago as a going concern. Enjoying my pension now, I live on Vienna’s eastern outskirts in a solid two bedroom bungalow with a large garden which is probably worth about €350,000 - well below UK prices. You need to speak German to live here as dealing with the various government departments is probably worse than the UK. Public transport in Vienna is brilliant, and cheap! If you’re a motorist then Diesel at just over €1/Litre and 4 Star at €1.1 is probably a gift. Smokers can satisfy their miserable addiction at 50% of UK prices and a half pint glass of wine in a pub will cost no more than €2,20 on average. Beer costs about €2.60 ½ Litre. Tickets this way…

Gordon's Gofer said...

For once Iain i actually agree with you its all about the ease with which you can now move and as you point...stay in touch.

As for me i think it would have to be in Europe i like Spain a great deal but i think France would be the place. Having siad that Bruges and Edinburgh remain my two favourite cities.

janestheone said...

50 is not the cut-off point, I am 53, and still need (and want) to work and I have just moved to eastern France, where I expect to stay for quite some time. If I ever retire I would like it to be to Cyprus, for the weather and the nice people. I did try Latvia last year but it was a bit cold. Here in France I am enjoying living in a lovely huge flat for less than half what I would pay in London.

Anonymous said...

"The ensuing decades have not proved him wrong"

Oh yes they have.

So much political correctness from you Iain, you should work for the BBC.

I only have to step outside my street door to be in the third world, so I would not need to move to get there. This country is now a shithole and getting visibly worse by the day.

I'll give you one quote from the Telegraph link:

"One in four children born to a foreign family. Our culture is dying.
This country is an overcrowded, crime ridden, politically correct disaster area."

You and your new allies at the BBC can talk as much bollocks as you like but the reality is obvious to the people who actually have to endure this mess. It's not just German immigrants like Cinnamon who are leaving. There are Indians starting to go home to escape this disaster.

As soon as I win the Eurolottery I'm off - Europe for skiing holidays, America/New Zealand/Australia to live.

Anonymous said...

One of


Praguetory said...

Most Eastern Europeans are only there for the money. They are going back once they've saved enough to get on the property ladder back home.

It's the Somalians that you get to keep.

Anonymous said...

Frankly having been away for some time I can guarantee I'm not coming back. England looks like one big toilet.

Violent, dirty, appalling services, higher tax than even Germany! An economy that looks like it is teetering and a complete surrender to the Euroviet Union, a Marxist communist construct if ever there was one, still relatively rich but give it a few years.

If I was paranoid I would say that the Gvnt (Scots) and the EU are quietly engaged in the ethnic cleansing of England. It certainly looks like it.

It's not the end of the UK you should be worried about if you are English, it is the destruction of England.

Roger Thornhill said...

Iain, it is not just "because they can". Most people move out of adventure, work or desperation. Those in the middle are content enough to stay put (or be boiled as a frog).

100 years ago people moved. Empire or the US as main draws. People fled, mostly.

I suggest that many in the UK are fleeing, yes "because they can", but that is a minor angle, a mere enabler, not the cause.

What next? Exit visas? Considering the biometric passport+ID and the global tax hunt that is surely coming, an exit visa might well be something some would be willing to murder two fascist clerks for...

Anonymous said...

As soon as possible, I will flee smiley-faced fascism.
I will make money in the Emirates and retire in Belgrade, whilst spending as much time as possible in Beirut. I can't wait to get out of this God-forsaken, benighted country for good.

Kris said...

Australia- because their PM welcomes immigrants who want to adopt the Australian way of live- and gives the boots to those who don't.

Anonymous said...

CCHQ to Dale
CCHQ to Dale
Are you reading me...??

Anonymous said...

If my Euromillions numbers came up- i'm off to Canada! I'm sure as s*it not stopping here watching the country decline even more -under ANY government. I have absolutely no hopes that the rise in crime-esp violent, the long-working hours culture,housing, essential public services, and immigration will be tackled effectively.

Anonymous said...

I think the main reason large numbers of people are leaving is because they have the equity from property inflation to finance themselves abroadomething which in the past was not so readily available to so many.

Britain is full of inefficiencies that make it too expensive particularly for the middle classes who are financing it all with their taxes.

Unfortunately the Conservatives are unelectable and with no likelihood of a change of government people are voting with their feet. I actually think the situation will get much worse and the decline of Britain will accelerate because so many of the middle class are giving up.

Germany would be my choice - the language is reasonably similar and the system works there.

Pogo said...


Quickly.. Where are you living? Sounds bloody marvelous!

Anonymous said...

Wrong! The English are leaving because the immigrants are coming; it is really very simple.

Tim F said...

"Anonymous said...
Wrong! The English are leaving because the immigrants are coming; it is really very simple."

And thus becoming immigrants. When Brits elect to up sticks, I do wonder whether they consider how they're perceived by the locals at their intended destination. (I've lived on three continents, and have had numerous occasions to be embarrassed by my countrymen.)

Unless of course, by "immigrants" you mean "brown people".

Anonymous said...

What a depressing thread, although one has to aim off as it seems to have attracted a lot of people who have already left. I live in London and can't envisage it ever not being my main home as:
1. Best work propects;
2. Best cultural life;
3. Best education available for my children at world renowned schools (the private sector of course, which fortunately my family can afford);
4. Most of my lifelong friends are here, or nearby;
5. I like the cultural and racial diversity, whilst still in the context of Britishness;
6. Freedom of a big City;
7. I may not pull the strings, but I know who does and can have a chance of influencing them if I need/want to.
8. Despite all its faults, I like our political system, particularly that it is a Monarchy so I have someone to respect.

Someone above said to Iain: "Perhaps the fact that you have no children makes you more optimistic/less realistic. Its surprising how fatherhood concentrates the mind on the essentials." For me it does - the essential is that my family has its roots on this island for at least hundreds of years, and who am I to deny my children that continuity and identity? You should only emmigrate before children (so they will be natives of your new country) or after they have grown up (so you are not imposing it on them, but then you may not see much of them).

That said, I would still be tempted to leave if:
1. We lost the Monarchy
2. We ever adopted the Euro
3. The extreme right or extreme left came to political power and/or we took several more steps towards becoming a police state
4. Private education was ever shut down
5. London was moved somewhere else - I'd go with London rather than England.

If I did have to go my shortlist would be:
1. New York - a big City in many ways similar to London.
2. Vancouver - an old fashioned version of England.
3. France or Italy - reassuringly close to London/England, but with better food, wine and (in the south) climate.
4. India - many English have lived there in the past.
You detect a theme here?

Nicodemus said...

It was Cecil Rhodes, actually old boy.

Anonymous said...

Londoner (and happy to be so)

Tim nice and rich but dim?

lucky you and your kids private school.

1. I believe the Monarch is just about to sign over her remaining powers to the EU.

2. MiFID comes into effect the 1st Nov. So the city is now in the hands of Brussels.

3. If the present Gvnt isn't extreme historically speaking then I'd be surprised.

4. Much as I admire private education the argument that the rest of it is shit because those who count don't use it has some weight.

5. London's OK if you are rich, which you clearly are, so no arguments except anywhere is nice if you are rich.

Anonymous said...

Londoner (and happy to be so) - You cannot buy property in India. No way. No how. No way round it. It doesn't matter who you know.

Tim Footman writes: "When Brits elect to up sticks, I do wonder whether they consider how they're perceived by the locals at their intended destination."

Tim Footman, you seem to think they give a shit.

I have never encountered this imaginary British lout living abroad. I just don't know where this fantasy of some deluded loutish Brit,or some silly Lady Muck, making fools of themselves comes from because I have literally never seen it. Most people find their friends without reference to whether it's another expat or a native of the country. I don't think most people notice us any more than we notice a German or Chinese family living amongst us in Britain. We say "good morning" a few times and after that, they become part of the landscape.

Anonymous said...

Londoner (and happy to be so) writes: "Do you detect a theme here."

No. You mean you think we are interested enough in your choices of destination to detect a theme?

Anonymous said...

To fnusnuank:

I don't think I've provided you with any reason to call me "dim", unless you assume everyone whom you term "rich" is. The only evidence that I might be the latter is that I can afford private education. I agree that you need to be very comfortably off for that, but you do not need to be in the millionaire bracket by any means, and I don't think anyone below can can really be described as rich these days.

Nor do I think you have to be comfortably well off (which is what I would describe myself now, although I have only become so well into middle age through my earnings - I can't be too dim then) to enjoy living in England/London. I accept the proviso that this may not apply, as regards London, if you have children, as there isn't much decent State education. But that doesn't apply everywhere and most of my points about staying here were nothing to do with being well off.

Re your specific points:
1. The importance of the Monarchy does not depend on its powers.
2. MiFID is just the latest Directive affecting the City, it's nothing new in kind. Look at the Listing Rules, the Takeover Directive, Market Abuse etc. Totally different order of things than our currency being taken over; and in at least some of these areas there is a positive benefit in having more of a single market.
3. All previous Labour Governments up to 1979 were a lot more extreme than the present lot - if you doubt that, I am not the dim one. If we have 10 years of Brown, I agree it'll be pretty grim - but that's a reason to stay here and make sure it doesn't happen!

A different thought: there have always been lots of people discontented at their opportunities or other aspects of their lives or how the country was changing. Or who simply wanted to be more adventurous. In the old days the middle class ones went off to run the Empire and spent most of their lives abroad; now they emigrate.

To Verity I say: if it was so uninteresting, I wonder why you commented (twice). If you'd been interested in the theme, you would have clocked that my choices had nothing to do with buying property. Not sure Manhattan is too easy buying property either as I suspect it makes London prices look modest (oh sorry, that junks fnusnuank's idea that I have megabucks).

Fidothedog said...

They go because:
The NHS is falling down
The law is failing.
Petty minded pen pushers dictate most of what we can do.
Crime is rising.
Radical moslems attempt to blow up airports.
Criminals get better treatment than the victims of crime.
Maybe the former chancellor should cast his mono gaze onto some of those issues.

Anonymous said...

Londoner said...

Couldn't resist the Tim nice but Dim :-)

1. My Gran with a tiara on her head is not the same as the woman who signs Parliamentary Acts.

2. MiFID is an extension of existing legislation, it does however pass control of all securities markets to the EU. Good luck with that if you work in the city.

3. I don't see how previous Gvnts can have been less extreme. No more Habeas Corpus, it's Corpus Juris now. The Police can just shoot you in the head whenever they feel like it. The Gvnt can lock you up for thirty days without trial, though they would like 90 etc etc. Though Iain might want to arbitrate, I'm no expert.

As for opportunity, if you can't read and write by the age of ten, God help you but that's English state schools.

As for emmigration, read the Telegraph letters on the subject you won't have to surmise the reasons.

Anonymous said...

i have noted so many xenophobic anto Scottish comments on this subject why don't you jerks get a life and solve your problems instead of blaming Gordon Brown.

Just in casr you forgot an 11 year old English boy was shot by another English boy if that is not enough reason for people to leave Engerland then what the hell is!

Anonymous said...

"To Verity I say: if it was so uninteresting, I wonder why you commented (twice). If you'd been interested in the theme, you would have clocked that my choices had nothing to do with buying property."

No. Wasn't interested enough to care, except you apparently thought you had a raj-like right to buy property in India, and I happen to know, through my own efforts, that that is not possible.

Anonymous said...

bof2bs 23/8 5.15: PLEASE SHUT UP about the joys of the south island of NZ, one of my regular and favourite haunts. If they all go, what we in the know already go for will disappear faster than you can say Shotover Jet!

Anonymous said...

Without a doubt New Hampshire. For those who don't know, their state motto is "Live Free or Die".

It contasts rather well with the sad state of things here, doesn't it?

Anonymous said...

Plus New Hampshire is one of the states where they have a right to bear arms.

Rush-is-Right said...

I recommend the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

Cheap property, reliable weather, low taxation, small government and fewer islamics. I've lived there nearly a year now and the only bhurka I've seen was at heathrow on a (fortunately brief) return to the UK.

Oh yes, and it's outside the EU as well. Perfect.