Monday, November 27, 2006

UKIP Uses EU Email to Tout for Tory Councillors

UKIP appears to be using European Parliament email facilities to persuade Conservative councillors to defect to them. Oh the deep irony. Nigel Farage is emailing Tory Councillors via Jeffrey Titford MEP's European Parliament email with these words of wisdom...

Dear Councillor,

There does not seem to be very much difference between our three main parties these days. This is hardly surprising as 75% of our laws are now made by the EU with little or no input from Westminster. As you must realise local government is in a poor state too with a new unelected layer of Regional Assemblies and voter disenchantment. In UKIP we believe that it is essential for the UK to become self-governing again and for voters to want to participate. We are developing as a broadly based real party of opposition, the only one saying what most people think. With the local elections in May we intend to build up on local government representation and would welcome a conversation with anyone that might consider working with us or joining us. It is time to stand up and be counted.

We give you an absolute assurance that you can contact us on a completely confidential basis.

Yours sincerely,
N. Farage
Leader of UKIP

I'm told there hasn't exactly been a rush of replies... Well, not ones that I could print.


Anonymous said...

I suspect that a bunch of flowers could be on it's way to a WC1 address!

More great publicity for UKIP!!


Anonymous said...

Errr ..... Iain do you really think that anyone would be letting on if they had replied in the affirmative to UKIP's come on? The golden rule of defection is for both sides to keep quiet about it until the most aposite time.

Anonymous said...

UKIP are truly desperate aren't they? This letter... the sad pleading...

oh dear. Do they send begging letters to the half their membership that vanished? "Come back! We need you!"

towcestarian said...

I wonder how long UKIP's bunch-of-flowers fund will last. Mrs towcestarian keeps nagging me to say something to upset "Real Conservatives" so that we will get a floral donation from Nick.

Anonymous said...

How can UKIP keep claiming that 75% of legislation is passed in the EU??? Its clearly a lie - only a bunch of crazy right wing nuts could get away with it!!!

Jens Winton said...

Sorry Iain, what exactly is wrong with this?

Machiavelli's Understudy said...

I don't see the problem with using facilities that they have a right to.

They and we as taxpayers have paid for those facilities and as our elected representatives, they are entitled to use them.

I think they'd be failing in their responsibilities to the electorate if they did not get value for money out of the resources given to them.

Anonymous said...

Nigel Farage? Isn't his surname French? Anyway, a boost to the man for trying, emails are free.

Anonymous said...

To be honest, I don't see much logic in eurosceptics joining UKIP. Realistically, they is no chance they'll be elected any time soon.

Better to be in the Conservative Party, where you can influence the policy of a party that will get into power.

Call me mad, but I'm an EU reformist myself. I think I'm one of the two or three bloggers who thinks that Britain can make something out of the European Union.

towcestarian said...

sam tarran

Ok you asked for it - YOU ARE MAD. The proverbial box of frogs springs immediately to mind.

towcestarian said...

Quick aplogy to sam tarran.

I have just looked at your blog and noted your very tender years. Not mad, just a bit naive maybe.

Excellent blog, by the way - good piece on slavery.

Jens Winton said...

Sam Tarran says:

"To be honest, I don't see much logic in eurosceptics joining UKIP. Realistically, they is no chance they'll be elected any time soon.

Better to be in the Conservative Party, where you can influence the policy of a party that will get into power.

Call me mad, but I'm an EU reformist myself. I think I'm one of the two or three bloggers who thinks that Britain can make something out of the European Union."

This is good stuff! Really gave me a chuckle!

First of all, we are not Eurosceptic, we're EUsceptic - a huge difference but let us let that go.

For a party that's been around for barely 13 years, consider our electoral gains, versus other parties, even the other small ones (including the LibDems that benefited from its Liberal predecessors). We are steadily increasing our vote share - even at the General Elections.

Cameron has made it clear he's not interested in the EU. Britain cannot reform it from within as Germany and France will never allow it, and the Conservatives will sit back and watch us lose our last remaining vetos on law and order disappear - making it next to impossible to revoke the 1972 Act on Europe.

Go on and outBlair Blair. The emperor really is naked. As for us, we will keep on about the need to bring back democracy to the UK - an aim that all well-thinking parties should be behind.

Anonymous said...

Jens Winton
As a lifetime Conservative you already have my vote at Euro elections, so dont push your luck.

There is nothing stopping this country doing what it damm well wants to do, and you must know this.

Pleaty of European countries stick two fingers up at selective European laws, and no country has been to my knowledge thrown out or invaded by the EU yet.

We could if our government chose to, do the same. The government we have now simply chooses not too.

Firstly because it is a National socialist one in all but name. So is idealogicaly in love with European hegemony.

Secondly because it does not want to take responsibility for the crap things it itself does.

Thirdly because it has so run out of political capital and idears that it has become disposessed of any workable electable concept for our and its own future.

Voteing UKIP at a general election, given our first past the post electorial system is a surrender to the enemy. A Captain Manwaring type act. Like singing a patriotic song while the ship is sinking fast.

My advice to UKIP at least for now would be to have remained a protest party. If UKIP could have got 50% of the vote at the European Elections alone, it would have then been no longer possible for the BBC and the MSM to marginalise and ignore the British peoples malcontent.

This would have been far easier if UKIP had not scared off any honest socialists by "coming out" as being real Tories. And did not continue to scare off part time Tories by maybe being responsible for another 5 years of New Labour.

The aragance and vanity of all politicians ensures that my advice will not now ever be taken up by the UKIP leadership, which is sad.

Praguetory said...

Forget UKIP, Iain - at least we know what they stand for. I need the Tory party to stand for reform not drift and soon or I'll be forced to wave the white flag and join Better Off Out.

Anonymous said...

Using an email address?

is this the best you can do Iain?

Another pathetic jibe at UKIP, who only want what most Tories do. Why does this blog spend so much time attacking the Mail, the Telegraph and UKIP, and have virtually nothing to say about the left?

Feeble stuff Iain.

Ryan Newell said...

at least UKIP are using email for a constructive purpose.
What was the name of that tory councillor who sent the racist email?
Did you report about that Iain?

Trixy said...

Iain, you appear to have reached the stage where you are attacking a party for using an e-mail address at their place of work.

Of course Jeffrey Titford uses his Jeffrey Titford e-mail. That's what it's there for.

Call me a rebel, but I'd rather have a debate about policy or some such. Still, I suppose that must be quite hard in the modern day Tory party....

Anonymous said...

The letter ploy may or may not work but what people do at the GE ballot is a very different matter!

Anonymous said...

The 75% figure is really funny. Nigel Farage usually says 70%. Other leading UKIP members tend to claim anywhere between 50% and 80% of our laws come from the EU (although I've heard one member claim 95% before). A basic rule of party politics is keeping your story straight.

There's a House of Commons library research paper recently updated, which puts the actual figure at 9%.

Anonymous said...

Iain, being a bit thick, I'm not so sure what the story is here ?

I use email from a well-known ISP even though it is now owned by a crap US conglomerate which probably goes against all my lefty-liberal ethics.

I still send email to my ex-colleagues at a well-known financial services conglomerate even though I am hogging up their bandwith with 'non-business' traffic. Are you suggesting that they should send all their email from their own personal email accounts ? Or not use any thing which has been tainted by association with anything EU related ?

Please enlighten your viewers...

Anonymous said...

This is complete nonsense. You can use any email address with any ISP. All you have to is to configure the account settings on the email client.

Farage could easily send out emails from Jeffrey Titford's EU email address via BTInternet, Wandaoo or Bulldog.

As a an internet expert, you ought to know that. Or are you simply spreading lies to further your career?

Anonymous said...

I believe that under the rules of the European Parliament, you are not meant to use official Parliamentary equipment, stationary, email addresses etc for Party Political purposes.

To some extent it works the same in the House of Commons - you are not allowed to send out party campaigning material in House of Commons stationary etc.

Good God, I don't believe I'm sticking up for Iain Dale!

Gawain Towler said...

The House of Commons research paper that you mention is twaddle,you must know that. The problem is for anybody seriously trying to define to what extent the EU does have direct influence on the laws that apply to the UK is that this government, and its predecessor one must remember refuses to do a serious study, normally claiming it would cost too much to find out. I note that Lord Pearson has again put forward aprivate members bill to attempt to glean the information.
However the top figure (80%) comes from a question asked by a German federal MP (Singhoffer I think his name was) last year. The answer from the German Justice Ministry was a shade under 80%, something like 79.7%. Now as we do not have to deal with the vast majority of fiscal shenanigans thatthey do then one can reasonably extrapolate from that we are talking well into the top 60s in the UK.
Sadly until, this or any other government has the guts to tell us the truth we shall not know. One wonders what they have to hide?

Other than that, Iain, don't you think it would be stupid of UKIP not to make overtures to Tory and other Councillors? You might not like them but you must admit it is a sensible use of resources, after all there are plenty of Tories dissatisfied with the direction being taken by the Tories and other so called mainstream parties.

Anonymous said...

This is my estimate of EU control over certain areas, based on extensive research :

Agriculture : 100%
Fisheries : 100%
Environment : 75%
Transport : 50%
Employment Law : 50%
Weights and Measures : 100%
Health : starting

I think 50% or more is much more accurate than 9%.

The trouble is that so many Tories are living in the past, they haven't caught up with the facts yet.

Jens Winton said...

garypowell says:

"As a lifetime Conservative you already have my vote at Euro elections, so dont push your luck...

The aragance and vanity of all politicians ensures that my advice will not now ever be taken up by the UKIP leadership, which is sad."

Er, no. We don't simply push our luck, we make it as well by hard work and timing. Your advice may be also ignored for other reasons. I can think of many but one thing's for sure: Mr. Cameron has no intention of reforming the EU or pulling out. Any EU-sceptics have no place on his front bench. And get this! We're criticised for being a single-issue party (we never were) so when we make more noise about our other policies, we're ridiculed for not being a single issue party! You couldn't make it up! Seriously, we must be making a good job of it if we are scaring people into making comments like this.

And until Mr. Cameron comes out and apologises to UKIP for calling us racists, then I shall reserve the right to view all Conservative comment with suspicion when we are criticised.

Anonymous said...

Quote "To be honest, I don't see much logic in eurosceptics joining UKIP".
Never a truer word spoken. Why?
UKIP ony welcomes Eurorealists.
Ian, you shoud lose your inner tosser and join UKIP.

Anonymous said...

UKIP will be much more politically significant in the next General Election. This will be mainly due to their most effective promoter, Tosser Dave. Unless of course a Conservative of some reputation breaks away and forms the Real Conservative Party.

Anonymous said...

Elaib, are you Nigel Farage himself? That's virtually word for word what he said on 5 live a few weeks ago.

sorry to disappoint, but 9% is accurate. The House of Commons library is independent of Government so it is reliable (although I'm sure you'll find a way to claim it's being secretly run by Brussels or something!).

Elsewhere on that document it lists various oral answers to Ministerial questions which shows where the figure is. The highest figures are for DEFRA and Trade/Industry, which sit at about 50%. That is balanced out by the zero % in education, health, defence, CMS etc, I think transport was below 10% (I no longer have it in front of me) and the overall figure comes out at 9%.

You can either accept the facts or make stuff up to support your agenda. I don't care which you do, but as UKIP chooses the latter, it might provide an explanation as to why it isn't a serious party.

Jens Winton said...

There have been six EU treaties since 1972, with a seventh to come within the next two years. These treaties have steadily dissolved the veto power Britain has over its own ability to pass its own laws.

There are three types of Union law:

1) Primary legislation from the treaties
2) Secondary legislation from the regulations, directives, decisions, recommendations and opinions made by the Union's institutions in accordance with the treaties; and
3) Decisions of the European Court of Justice and the Court of First Instance

EU law is together called the acquis communautaire, and can be listed into 31 chapters. This assists in accession negotiations.

1) Free movement of goods
2) Free movement of persons
3) Freedom to provide services
4) Free movement of capital
5) Company law
6) Competition policy
7) Agriculture
8) Fisheries
9) Transport policy
11)Economic and Monetary Union
13)Social policy and employment
15)Industrial policy
16)Small and medium-sized enterprises
17)Science and research
18)Education and training
19)Telecommunication and information technologies
20)Culture and audio-visual policy
21)Regional policy and coordination of structural instruments
23)Consumers and health protection
24)Cooperation in the field of Justice and Home Affairs
25)Customs union
26)External relations
27)Common Foreign and Security Policy (CFSP)
28)Financial control
29)Financial and budgetary provisions

This is by no means fixed and although it is very wide, it stands to increase even moreso over the next few years.

A lot of what people think is British law is actually created originally in Brussels with only the end result as being important: How a nation gets there is up to them. These are the directives we hear about from time to time. The 70%-75% figure used from time to time is an estimate of how much so-called British law actually started in Brussels, especially those that we have surrendered the veto on. This figure stands to rise as inroads into our legal system continue.

Anonymous said...

sorry to disappoint, but 9% is accurate. The House of Commons library is independent of Government so it is reliable (although I'm sure you'll find a way to claim it's being secretly run by Brussels or something!).

It probably is Jonathan. Or should I call you "head in the sand" Jonathan?

You and the rst of the country need to wake up. The "EU" issue is above party politics - trouble is UKIP are the only ones talking about it!

Anonymous said...

There are only two positions on the EU; Europhile (want to stay in) and Eurorealist (Want to come out).

Which makes Tories europhiles, however much they might bleat that after 30 years, and still wanting to stay in, they're still, um, sceptical!

Anonymous said...

Nigel Slimey Perma-Tan Farage can stick it where the UKIP policy decisions come from...right up his greasy A*&$hole.....

I think there morte chance of me defecting to the Communist Party then there is to UKIP, and thats only so I can get a divi at the Co-op

Gawain Towler said...

No, can't say I have ever listened /orapeared on 5Live so it must have been an avatar.

The HoC Library is staffed very well, I know I have been fortunate to use them myself - as is for that matter the library of the European Parliament whose work is of a similar high standard and lacking in political bias.

However the information that they published on this subject is at best misleading. 0% on defence. So what do you think that the European Defence Procurement Agency is for? Oh yes that's it, for defining and setting rules governing what military kit we can, and cannot purchase for our armed forces. This does not appear in the HoC paper. There are of course, many other examples.

The problem is not mere semantics, it is in definitions and catergories.

Anonymous said...

UKIP haven't sent me a bloody email yet.

What's wrong? Am I not good enough for them then?


I'll check my Council In-box when I get home and if it's there I'll be right nasty to them.

As for the EU, well, call me an optimist but I'm not expecting it to last.

The world is changing for the worst for Europe - mainly due to foreign competition - and either the EU will eventually implode with rising unemployment or, better, countries wanting to trade in a free and unfettered way will see which way the wind's blowing and start to leave.