political commentator * author * publisher * bookseller * radio presenter * blogger * Conservative candidate * former lobbyist * Jack Russell owner * West Ham United fanatic * Email iain AT iaindale DOT com
Can I call you Joe :-)
She's going for cute! "Can I call you Joe?"
She is so stunning. Shame she is too folksy and way out of her depth.
Preparation! The Fannie and Freedie reforms! Take that Katie Couric! (only 4 days late, but she came back to us!)
Watching this from Waikiki Beach Hawaii on holiday (tough life!) Only 3pm here - Palin lauching into the folksy soccer mom/fear stuff already.
An accomplished start by Biden. Lots of gobbledy-gook from Palin.
man, she's like a bad sixth form debater. "We're a team of mavericks". Oooo 2 mentions of mavericks.
Biden must have said the words John McCain 50 times so far. Not impressive.Palin is more eloquent than I thought she would be, but somehwat full of hot air.Darn it.
The less she knows, the "cutesier" she gets! I think the Tina Fey skits has done her far more damage than a thousand Obama/Biden ads. That said, a good start for Palin.
Joe 6 pack? First mention of hockey moms. Biden is killing her, without even trying. Wait until foreign policy.She's said, "darn right", "heck of a" and "hockey moms" in the same response.
Biden is deliberately not talking to her - he can only lose if he attacks her, he's keeping the focus on John McCain. Smart.
Palin is delivering all of her answers straight-to-camera. That'll be the key differentiator in the post-debate commentary.Very powerful technique. Can't remember it being used in another presidential debate - anyone?Biden is speaking to the moderator.
Americans love this stuff.Still, she is sounding a bit Hazel Blearsish, with her slightly manic tone. Also sounding a little too much like she's vomiting out all the facts in her brain, like a student who has crammed for an exam and is just splurging out their memorised essays - no matter the questions.
Palin is going to give me high blood pressure. I don't know if I can stand 90 minutes of her talking "directly to the people". Talk to the moderator for goodness' sake!
GREAT LINE ABOUT FEDERAL-RUN HEALTHCARE!She is speaking to camera. Excellent style. I cannot believe I am liking her performance.
She is so sweet!
She's reminding me of an ESPN pundit with the straight to camera stuff
I can't put my finger on quite why she irritates me so. I wish she didn't, I could concentrate more on the issues then.
the CNN "Uncommitted Ohio Voters" line is interesting. Women are completely ignoring her, and spiking on Biden.
Biden is using far too many statistics. He's not talking normal people's language. Palin is.
"The ultimate bridge to nowhere"Darn right, Joe.
Great answer from Palin on energy and the oil companies.
Biden is very "Washington insider". Rather dull to listen to. Palin has me on edge as to whether she's going to make some huge gaffe, but so far she's been impressive. Very good at talking about what she wants to, rather than what the moderator wants her to!Biden just praised her performance in Alaska. Not entirely wise.
in the first 5 mins we had betcha!, soccer moms and hockey moms from Palin. the sad fact is that some americans are lapping this shit up. she scares me!
I actually find it difficult to listen whenever Biden talks. Palin is rather easy and charming to listen to... even though Biden will be a better Vice President.Funny to see Sarah Palin appealing to traditional Conservative ideals, too - families, low taxes, low regulation. The Ron Paul fans will not be happy. :)
The Obama campaign must be screaming about all the statistics he's vomiting. DOES THIS MAN NOT KNOW HOW TO COMMUNICATE?!
if she says corruption and greed on wall street once more I am going to batter her to death with tomorrow's WSJ.Wow! She knows what a credit market is?? That's better than 99% of Congress.
I think her communication technique is great - she has the aura of a newsreader, obviously not a BBC one because you can trust what she says!!!Biden's eyes look to small for his face, they look close togehter as well. I feel he is probably untrustworthy and he only fleetingly looks in the camara!
Andy C - excellent point. Probably where the "Can I call you Joe?" came from, an attempt to lure him into referring to her as Sarah, which would probably be seen as "patronising". I'd love to see her patronised and ridiculed for her total lack of gravitas and knowledge. She is more likely to become POTUS than any VP nominee in history and yet the Dems are pussyfooting around like this is irrelevant. TonyNJ - I think the straight-to-camera technique is misguided. It's a Q&A and a debate after all, she's not delivering from an autocue.She's also starting to stumble and stutter and get her words mangled now that it's expected of her to elaborate beyond the soundbites.
She's waffling on climate change
One qualification of my comments about her presentation skills: her grammar is very odd at times. Not that most people will care, but it irks my inner OCD grammarian.
Joe's got great teeth though.Here we go - the polar bear question.
Sorry, I should have said it could be bad makeup about Biden's eyes.
Here he goes again - John McCain voted... like anyone gives a toss.
Oooooh, waffle-strewn 'energy independence' answer from Palin. Biden on the verge on his most straightforward answer yet in reply...could go south very rapidly tho.
Biden has a hair weave. When he stood for President in 1988 he was more or less bald.
Iain you're completely missing the point, this debate is Joe's to lose. If he goes after her he loses. She's done as a credible candidate, why bother.Biden is clearly on a mission to go after McCain. That is what he was hired for n'est pas?
i have decided to drink every time she doesn't answer a question. i am getting very drunk very quickly
"Here he goes again - John McCain voted... like anyone gives a toss".Surely you aren't being serious, Iain? Have you had three or four glasses of wine? How on earth else are we supposed to judge the candidates other than on their policies and their records?Their hairstyles apparently...
When he stood for President in 1988he was more or less bald.He copied Kinnocks hairstyle as well as his speeches! Now he just has the rambling nonsense. So, far it seems more interesting than the POTUS one though.
The bias of the moderator is starting to come through now cutting off Palin and letting Biden go over his time limit
Palin getting much better. She's enjoying it now and nerves going a little- hoping she will rip him apart or will she completely blow it...
I'd love to see the moderator ask the same question Katie Couric asked about the fifteen year old victim of incestuous rape's right to abort her father's child. Could be the Bentsen '88 moment... ;)
all she does is waffle. answer the damn question.
*rape victim's right (sp.)
****FOREIGN POLICY****oh I can't watch. Here comes pitbull Joe.
Incredible. She just used the 'I have lots of gay friends' line.
Matt - she's waffling because she's had five or six "ten worders" drummed into her head by the McCain team. If she strays from these she'll be toast, and everyone knows it. That's why she's yet to answer a question.
Damn. Joe must be dying to smack her down re Iraq.
They're just fighting for the same vague, populist ground. She's far right and he's a Dem. They should have a bloody ideological debate, not trying to prove what they believe!Of course, that's not gonna happen, since she's just repeating pre-written material.
Andrew Sullivan is having a nervous breakdown over this debate. Most amusing:http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/live-blogging-t.html
I've come to the conclusion they are both uninspiring and crap for polar opposite reasons.
rossthat's my point. she is like one of those action men with a string out the back that i had when i was kid. she keeps repeating the same crap. she's been doing this for five weeks and it shows. hopefully mccain is regretting his choice. Biden, although he is a little dry, is wiping the floor with her. his experience is showing thru.
Anon - she used the same line in the Couric interviews in reference to her lesbian "close friend". She said she loved her, but disagreed with her "choice" - yes, "CHOICE" - to fall in love with a woman. Kind of scary how little she understands not just social policy, economic policy and foreign policy, but even the diversity of human nature, quite unusual to find in a mother.
Biden is really disciplined. He's not even acknowledged she's even there. John, John, John....He is slaying her on the FP stuff.
she says nucular like dubya. bless.
Palin: "They hate us for our freedoms" - Jesus H Christ could she get any worse...
It's amusing that some people think Biden is wiping the floor with her. I think she is more than holding her own. She's talking to middle America, not the political elites. Bear that in mind.
iain are you seeing the graphing on CNN? she ain't winning with middle america baby.
Couldn't agree more, Matt. McCain MUST be regretting his choice, surely. He only need view the Couric interviews, or the scarily real Tina Few skits, or his plummeting poll ratings.Needless to say, the 5.7 point (mean average) Obama lead has engendered the dirty tricks:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/03/uselections2008.barackobama1The only surprise being they haven't been initiated earlier.I'm just amazed that so many Tories (seemingly including moderates such as Iain) still view the likes of Palin as their natural allies, when they are far, far from.
Tony NJ said... Palin: "They hate us for our freedoms" - Jesus H Christ could she get any worse...She must have lifted that one off Tony Blair! Because he used it most often!I think she is doing alright, unless she makes a major mistake - it could be seen as a turning point in the election.
This is starting to feel like Chelsea vs Cluj.Halfway through and she hasn't had a disaster yet.
These are worth keeping an eye on toohttp://search.twitter.com/search?q=joe+bidenhttp://search.twitter.com/search?q=sarah+palin
Iain - views on who's winning are often not determined by what we hear, but by the perspective from which we hear. After eight years of crap, Middle America is thoroughly sick of the toxic soup served up by the Republicans. 95 per cent of Middle America are neither political junkies or ideologues. Bear that in mind.
"WE LOVE JEWS TOO"oh bless her.Gays and Jews. She's a healer.
Biden getting some major hits in now. Funny she can pronounce Ahmadinejad but not nuclear.
iain, all she is bringing is her folksiness and tired spin phrases to this debate. hopefully people will see thru all the soccer/hockey moms, betcha! and calling mccain a maverick. he voted with GWB 90% of the time, yet she still insists he is different. on foreign policy Biden is making her look amateurish. and how can some who cannot say the word 'nuclear' be allowed any position of power?
Completely with Iain on this. Remember the audience....Remember the Bush-isms they didn't mind on the previous two occasions....
they gave a shlt at the last Congressionals....I seem to remember a GOP wipe out.
Given that Biden is the foreign policy expert, and Palin is not, she is doing pretty well in this section. And he just audibly huffed, which is a stupid thing to do.And now he's adopted a funereal tone.Seriously, Obama was nuts to pick this bore.
Andy, you don't get American elections do you? You cannot do a readacross from the 2007 congressionals to a Presidential.
Insomniac is right. Palin is not being trounced in this section, and she ought to be.
So guys and girls, it's been going for an hour. Scores on the doors?I give it to Palin 6 to 5 out of ten, purely on the basis that she is exceeding expectations.
i would also recommend www.thingspalincanname.com . since she can't name a single news source she reads or one supreme court decision that's important its interesting to read what she has made statements on. :)
Iain - the 2006 Congressionals were exactly all about Bush - Reps were trying desparately to disassociate themselves from him.
I'd give it to Palin. I think the cables will too. Expectations were SO low - and after those interviews, how couldn't they be - and her performance has been pretty good. I don't know if the accusations of bias have rattled the moderator, but so far she's been really very soft.
I think he has just stumbed on defending his voting record. He is very wooden in this debate, Palin is coming across more human. The big thing to remember is the Palin is not their to appeal on foriegn policy where as Biden is! Ahe is there to appeal to the US electorate, who er - vote in the election. No point in trying to appeal to european people.
Andy, I agree that Obama is the most likely winner in November. It's not Bush who will win it for him. It's the economy, stupid! :)
score draw, he's staying disciplined and sticking to the game plan, not landing any punches, she's doing ok, has got better as she's warmed up, but please stop banging on about Alaska!! it's the same size as Jacksonville.
Palin 5/10 (hideous but not too hideous) Biden 7/10 (should be doing better)i still think he is spanking her on FP. every time she opens her mouth she shows how little she knows on the subject
"me and Dick Luger" God, what a Washington bore Biden is. I doubt many people outside Indiana know who Richard Luger is, not exactly someone you want to name-drop in a national Veep debate.
Nick - the Bushisms they didn't seem to mind in 2000 and 2004 have had their day. Bush has a <30% approval rating so Americans (at least the swing voters) have learned their lesson. Palin's darning and suring and hockey-momming simply won't do in this time of severe economic crisis. Voters at risk of losing their jobs and their homes want substance not folksiness and soundbites.
Questioning is vague and light-handed enough to let her get away with being stupid.
Iain - agreed there, the big gamechanger in this election was Paulson's bailout plan and McCain's handling of it. In hindsight Biden looks like a dull choice, Bloomberg would have been magnificent right now.btw, looking fwd to the new GQ column.
So far I think it is even: this is because whilst Biden obviously has the substance. Palin has the delivery.These debates are always won on the the spin afterwards and they are just box ticking excercises! Night I am off to bed!
The most election that any of you will have voted in since 1932?!Biden appears to imagine that there are a lot of 94+ year old voters.Palin does this "I'm one of you" business very well.
Sadly I'd agree with insomniac. Palin is going to win this with the punditocracy.I hate everything she's saying but it's a perfectly competent performance.McCain will get a two-day bounce and breathing space. Won't be enough to bring things back for him though...
"most important" - correction
Say it ain't so Joe! Doggone it!Love it!!!!Home run for Palin!
That line about his dead teacher wife was truly dreadful. "Her reward is in heaven" tossed off as if she was referring to the colour of curtains.
She's on fire now.
She wants the vice president's office to have MORE power??Blimey. Beat that.
Palin was far superior to Biden early on due to her easy talking style, easy to understand nature, folksy and cute demure. She was, simply put, likeable. An hour in though, she's suddenly becoming bloody irratating."Say it ain't so, Joe! Now dawgnabbit.." - quoted. Biden is more Presidential, intellectual, careful and clever."I will preside over the Senate and take that role very carefully" - no VP ever, ever, ever has bothered presiding over the Senate in the past century at the very least. Palin: 7/10 down to 4/10.Biden: 4/10 up to 6/10.
On style I'd make it score draw, each about 7.5/10, but for different reasons. On substance, Biden 8/10, Palin 3 or 4. On another note, a lot was said about the importance of Biden not patronising Palin in any way. But surely it's way more patronising to say, like many have including some apparently sympathetic contributors here have, that she should be "trounced" hither or that "expectations were SO low" thither.
Biden's wife who is a teacher is very much alive...
Tony NJ,its not a competent performance. she is bringing platitudes and sound bites to this debate. she isn't adding anything of any substance.
I don't get how you can admire, and get so excited about, a vacuous performance like Palin's. Maybe it's effective to the working-classes in the swing states, but she's an embarassment.
andrew f,well said!
Superb answer on VP scope/Cheney there from Biden.
seriously, i don't think she has answered a question directly throughout the entire night
Sarah. Answer. The. F*cking. Question.6th Form debating club answer again.
Matt @ 3.16.On its own terms you might have a point. But having just spent two hours pre-debate watching MSNBC and getting geared-up for an absolutely horror show ('she won't be able to string a sentence together') she will have been seen by many to have overcome most of these criticisms and done well.
Did Palin just create the word exceptionalism? Is it actually a real word?
Biden's answer on his family was his best yet. Did I spot an onion in his pocket?
They're both giving pretty lame answers to the Achilles heel question. And thank God for 5Live, given theat the BBC seems to now be running CBeebies ads.
Joe just hit a friggin home run. Straight out of the ball park. Took her deep into the 9th and hit a walk off grand slam.
Why is Palin being allowed to flagrantly lie about Alaska's size? Yes, largest by area. But having the most oil or polar bears or igloos doesn't alter the fact that Alaska is, in fact, the fourth SMALLEST state by population - the thing that matters. More people live in the Norfolk than in the whole of Alaska! Agree her remark about Biden's late wife was tasteless, albeit well-intentioned.
Biden demolishing the "maverick" tag effectively. Can Palin rescue it?
She's truly terrifying. She lacks any fundamental knowledge about any area of policy; she's reading from scripts almost all the time, apart from when she decides it's good to make a joke about someone else. If she says 'mom' one more time I'll be building a new, real deep, Anderson Shelter.
Brilliant emotional moment by Biden.That's the moment that will get played again and again.
Biden just blew the Maverick status out of the water. That was dynamite.
Don't insult sixth form debate societies! I'll have you know we're far better than Palin.
I hate to say this, but Biden's tears looked phoney as hell. Is crying-on-demand now a requirement for Democratic candidates?
Oh well, no demolition job, then. If such an uneven match-up as this can end in a draw, you've got to wonder what the point of the debates is.
The fact that Joe Biden is, according to Forbes, the least rich member of the Senate, is a greatly endearing fact, hinted at with the reference to his house being his "total investment". Sharp contrast to McCain's several-hundred-million dollar wealth. No wonder their tax priorities are different.
Biden saved the best until last. The family stuff was genuinely moving. Then he changed tack completely and went direct on this maverick bullshit. Brilliant.This was a one-off play off game and Joe won it at the top of the 9th. Then threw 90mph fastballs straight at her.
Palin's closing statement is incredibly charming. It'll make politicos retch, but I bet the heartlands love it.
tony nj @ 03:21the couric interviews have been part of the mccain/palinm stratergy. they have set the bar low on purpose. they wanted her to look as tho she was going to be a disaster. on reflection i really think she has lived up to this.also, iain. Biden lost his wife and year old daughter in a car accident to suggest he was faking it is a little harsh.
MAVERICK-old cowboy TV show!
Ugh, can we not have quite so many baseball metaphors in a BRITISH discussion?!Let's have talk of "gosh, that was a six", or "crikey, a four for certain".
Draw. But moment when Palin referred to Biden's wife up in heaven could be seen as a mistake. Cannot see much of a swing in the polls.
Insomniac - I take it you've never lost someone as close to you as a husband/wife or a daughter? If you had, and could talk about it even years later, without getting a lump in your throat, then you're made of sterner stuff than I am.
Laughable attempt to blame the media for her disastorous interviews with Katie Couric.
Matt, he lost them several decades ago. He has talked about them at public meeting after public meeting. That he should choke up in a high stakes debate on national TV - hmmm!
right folks, it's been a genuine pleasure. Thanks for indulging us Iain.
Yes, thanks Iain. Good night everyone.
insomniac,a horrific event like that stays with you forever. come on.
Indeed, thanks Iain. Perhaps we will have the broadcast of your final in Hexham?!
Nick, that won't be happening, as I won't be applying!
Thanks all. Night
night all,well after i have finished this glass of bourbon.enjoyed myself.see you here next week for the next presidential debate!
Aye, night all! Thanks again. Shame you aren't going for it!
Obama/Biden 2 v 0 McCain/PalinWell done Joe!
Iain Dale, gay Westminster flunky from Norfolk, England, who writes for GQ,telling us that it is really about the folks out mid-west and not political elites. How f****g patronising is that, to us and them.
Any value in having a real nice folksy mum with her finger on the nuclear button?Oops! Must've pressed it by accident. Better call the electrician.Palin is Sweet 'N Low*, Biden is salt.*Read the label before using - it says: "Use of this product may be hazardous to your health. This product contains saccharin, which has been determined to cause cancer in laboratory animals."
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