Monday, November 05, 2007

The Consequences of Mr Hastilow

It always seems to happen to me. On Saturday night the Nigel Hastilow story was breaking just as I arrived to do the News 24 paper review. I could have just ignored it and covered other stories I suppose, but that would have been a bit gutless so I decided to talk about the future of Sir Ian Blair first (he hasn't got one) and Hastilow second.

But what to say? Anyone who had actually read what he said would have been hard pressed to find anything racist in his comments. His error was to be slightly ambiguous in agreeing with Enoch Powell that immigration had "irrevocably" changed Britain. If he had then gone on to talk about the many benefits of immigration he might have escaped. But he didn't.

The trouble is that Mr Hastilow had "form" in shouting his mouth off. In 2001 he made some outrageous comments about William Hague.

I said on News 24 that Mr Hastilow's fate lay at least partly in the hands of the media. If the story was still running 24 hours later he'd be toast. And so it proved.

The Party acted quickly and Caroline Spelman summoned him for a meeting yesterday . Whether he jumped or was pushed is immaterial. The fact is he is gone. There will be two side effects from this. Firstly it sends a signal to all candidates that their public utterances will be scrutinised as closely as those of MPs, and secondly it may well inhibit them from saying anything at all which can be considered as deviating even slightly from the party line. If that is indeed the effect, it may well give CCHQ fewer sleepless nights, but it will mean we are developing a factory line of androgynous politicians.


Anonymous said...

Hastilow's departure is yet another good reason not to vote Tory.

Anonymous said...

" In 2001 he made some outrageous comments about William Hague. "

"Mr Hastilow's website column for January 2001 warned that "the Conservative Party is a lost cause. Its leader is not popular, its policies have all been aped by New Labour, and its personalities are still mired in sleaze. "

Doesn't seem outrageous to me, rather stating the obvious.

Anonymous said...

Party Discipline is what helped to ensure Labour's victory on 1997 and for too long there have been people in the Conservative Party, and some fairly senior ones to boot, who seem to like opening their mouth's before engaging their brain.

Mr Hastilow should have realised what the likely response would be particularly from Labour and their friends in the media when he mentioned Enoch Powell's speech which is still anathema to a lot of people. I am afraid he was an architect of his own disaster and left the leadership with no option but to request his resignation as a candidate.

Anonymous said...

I completely agree. Being an ardent conspiracy theorist I thought that the words of an obscure Tory candidate had been wilfuly misinterpreted to invent this "Tories are racist" story in an attempt to improve Gordon's poll ratings.

Anonymous said...

I suppose we can now look forward to Tory politicians parroting the 'line to take' as dictated by their spinmeisters.

Labour have been doing this since 1997, and before. Harriet Harman is the prime exponent.

No deviation or hesitation or but plenty of repetition.

Theo Spark said...

The Tawdry Party has lost the plot. He only said what everyone is thinking. It seems that Freedom of Speech is no longer welcomrd by any of our political parties.

The Empty Suit said...

Is "androgynous" really the word you're looking for there? Couldn't agree more though - the last ten years demonstrate the debilitating effects of identikit new MPs spouting a single homogenised party line.

Newmania said...

I `ve been a bit busy for this one as well In general the multicultural paradise we have made does not impress me and I cannot help but notice that those who sing its praises are almost never the same people whose children have to go to schools failing utterly to cope with eight languages.
Having moved from Islington, to Lewes , with a historical demographic , the advantages of coherence in a community are very clear to me.

When I left Islington the headline was three in gangland shoot out . When I got to Lewes the headline was , Council to crack down on abandoned trolleys.I shall be interested to see what the MP Lib Dem Norman Baker has to say about the 3 million new homes to be shoe horned along the South 7000 nearby . 1,000,000 are for immigrants who are not here yet.
Does anyone doubt that if the people were asked they would say they do not want their world to be altered so completely and so quickly .
We now know that the Labour Government have lied about immigration which we already knew really and they will go on lying about it . You have to remember that they need the votes in the South in which they are otherwise finished . This lie shows up the other lie that immigration is good for the economy . It is not per-capita , not by a long way .

(The local Conservative candidate is Jason Sugarman who seems a good sort . L:ets hope the fat fraud Baker is out on his ear at the next election...)

Alex said...

Androgynous candidates or not, and although I am an advocate of unrestrained free speech, there are quite a few Conservative candidates and elected representatives (at lower levels than parliament) whose views more unacceptable than Mr Hastilow.

The Conservative Party would do well to flush them out. It is perfectly possible to have a reasonable debate about the amount of change that our society and infrastructure can accommodate without invoking the spirit of Enoch Powell.

Vienna Woods said...

Iain, your final comment is exactly the problem. I have all but given up on politicians in this country. Can we not openly discuss anything any more without being branded as racialist, sexist, homophobic, or whatever. We have become a nation of timid comment, ignoring the obvious, pandering to the politically correct and ignoring the public majority. We simply cannot carry on like this for much longer. We need robust discussion and people in parliament who actually represent their constituents instead of minority concerns. The whole scenario is like something from a J.K.Rowling fantasy where we are frightened to speak of "he who should not be named". Totally bloody ridiculous!

Anonymous said...

"If he had then gone on to talk about the many benefits of immigration he might have escaped."

Except for the fact that there are no such benefits.

What's the point of voting tory when you fundamentally agree with the nulab policy of ethnically cleansing England?

Anonymous said...

And you Tories have the cheek to call Brown a control freak. The man said nothing outrageous, and he has to explain himself.
In Cameron's Conservatives, honesty is not the best policy!

Newmania said...

androgenous= bisexual gender bender hermaphrodite masculine ambiguous female feminine gay gender homosexual intersexual klinefelter syndrome male omnisexual .

Is this what we are trying to avoid then ? :)

Anonymous said...

Iain, you can't mean androgynous politicians - although I'm quite taken with the idea. Homogenous, surely.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone provide a link to what Mr H actually said? Even after extensive Googling I cannot find his actual "offensive" statement, and would love to see it.

Anonymous said...

Or possibly "homogeneous"

Anonymous said...

The whole episode doesn't surprise me in the slightest. That being a Conservative candidate speaks the truth and is summoned by Party chair... A few things are clear:- i) the Party has admitted that you cannot speak the truth ( or give your own personal feelings)about immigration; ii) the atmosphere regarding the immigrant/indigenous community must be THAT BAD that the subject best be brushed over; iii) the Party is not really serious about reducing immigration to pre-1997 levels. iv)the Party has well and truly been slapped down by the PC brigade. v) this conservative member will not be renewing membership and shall sit on hands next election.

Curmy said...

The trouble is, a lot of people think this country has changed irrevocably, it just we're not allowed to say so !

This will strengthen the debate, not make it go away !

Tapestry said...

Enoch was wrong. There have been millions of immigrants but no rivers of blood.

Our problems are far more to with collpasing educational standards and the abandonment of effective discipline in schools.

If schools wish to use corporal punishment, and the parents consent to its use, the State has no business in preventing it. That is what politicians should be addressing, not old referrals to false prophets of a bygone age.

Anonymous said...

Mr Hastilow also said that immigrants get a red carpet. I seem to have been missed out. Where do I collect mine? And does it have to be red? It'll clash horribly with the curtains if so.

Anonymous said...

Just shows that no party really wants to tackle the real issues.
It's all a game to get in. The punters don't really matter!

Anonymous said...

"Enoch was wrong. There have been millions of immigrants but no rivers of blood. "

The black man doesn't have the whip hand over the white man either.

The public is simply hypocritically fickle about these things; on the one had, it claims it likes chracters and independent MPs, and on the other it reacts quite badly towards a party *as a whole* when you get things like this. It's a fine line.

Anonymous said...

The classicist Powell never meant literally to suggest a bloodbath in english streets - his words were misrepresented for political reasons, which worked a treat with an uneducatred public. And on that subject, why do all journalists and politicians seem to think think that poor, endlessly misunderstood King Canute was trying to hold back the tide, when the reverse was true? Lack of education there as well.

Mountjoy said...

Ultimately, the story here is that an intelligent, experienced, former newspaper editor - who was on track to win the Halesowen & Rowley Regis constituency - has been forced to resign as a parliamentary candidate because he was politically incorrect. He is a martyr to political correctness.

The political incorrectness in this case was not mentioning immigration, but daring to acknowledge what the majority of the electorate - except, of course, for the out-of-touch political class and media who spend too much of their lives in London - agree with Enoch Powell’s analysis that the UK would change ‘irrevocably’.

Anonymous said...

Hastilow's column in the Wolverhampton Express and Star can be found here:

...together with many comments agreeing with him.

Anonymous said...

Same old Tories.

Johnny Norfolk said...

You are not allowed to speak the truth as you see it in Britain in 2007.
What have we come to.

Manfarang said...

"Lewes with a historical demographic"-Calvinists!
Well at least you can have some great bonfire nights.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that you are not giving this eejit the kicking he deserves, Iain !? Do you seriously expect people to vote Tory if the party contains people who think 'Enoch was right!' ?

What has been the point of Theresa May warning that they are perceived as the 'Nasty Party', and Cameron trying to re-invent the party, if you are trying to defend indefensible remarks from this sorry excuse for a human being ?

Go and look on his blog for some of this other choice remarks like :-
"Soon it will be against the law to have sex until your proposed partner can produce a certificate of clean living from the health police (unless they have Aids, of course, in which case you get a free condom and official understanding)."

Anonymous said...

Comments about the changes, good and bad, to our society because of immigration are one thing.

Waving a red rag at a bull by quoting Enoch Powell or using his name is mis-judgement of some magnitude.

Cameron has, through considerable hard work, just demonstrated that it is possible for the Party to talk about immigration without yells of 'racism'. Hastilow has knocked that work back by months - Spelman was, I am afraid, absolutely right to take immediate action, like it or not.hgg

Anonymous said...

VERY well put

Anonymous said...

Anon 11.46 Do you live in the Midlands or perhaps the leafy lanes of Oxfordshire?

Sir-C4' said...

Nothing about Mr. Hastilow's recent remarks about immigration suggested anything racist in terms of facts on the ground. Once again that idiot Cameron has pandered to the real racists in the PC brigade. He has learnt nothing from his disgraceful treatment of Patrick Mercer.

I'm also sure that the vast majority people in this country (across all ethnic divides) share Mr. Hastilow's concerns and views. Cameron needs to listern to them if he hopes to win the next General Election.

If anyone should go, it should be Labour's David Lammy for playing the race card when answering my question on English devolution during last week's Question Time from Swansea.

Anonymous said...

"we are developing a factory line of androgynous politicians"

I posted similar sentiments in my blog yesterday and have been all but branded a racist for my sins!

It was only a few short weeks ago that David Cameron was criticising Brown for being a "top down" centralist - then what does allow Caroline Spellman to do?

Anonymous said...

you southerners havent a clue. as the comments on the express and star show, voters across the political and ethnic spectrum in the in the west midlands agree with what Nigel said.

WorkingClassHero said...

Which Government quango is responsible for deeming political issues 'unacceptable?'

Hastilow was a prat: but he's not PW Botha for goodness sake!

we all lose when someone's hounded out for making 'unacceptable' comments.

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised that so many posters here are missing the point. The point is that any comment which can be misconstrued WILL BE and can haunt a political party for years. Theresa May's glib comment about the "nasty party" did so much damage that she ought to have been shot. If this man can't be trusted to keep clear of mentioning the "Enoch" word then he can't be trusted as an MP and ambassador for the party.

It may be unfortunate that this is the situation but it is the reality within which all political parties have to work. You'd think that politicians, or wannabee ones, would have the sense to appreciate the danger of such comments.

Don't be concerned for him; Gordon Brown will probably poach him as some kind of special advisor in a few weeks!

Little Black Sambo said...

Anon (of course): "Do you seriously expect people to vote Tory if the party contains people who think 'Enoch was right!'?"

Enoch was right. Enoch was right. Enoch was right. Enoch was right.

Cox says said...

I think his sacking/resignation was more to prevent the labour spin machine branding the Tories as the nasty party. Why no one has pounced on Bored 'n' Groans "British jobs for British workers" rhetoric is surprising. Oh, I forgot, because they're a socialist party the laws of the universe mean they just aren't capable of racism. Cough.

JuliaM said...

"The public is simply hypocritically fickle about these things; on the one had, it claims it likes chracters and independent MPs, and on the other it reacts quite badly towards a party *as a whole* when you get things like this. It's a fine line."

The public....? Most online resources (and letters to editors in newspapers) are showing no such thing. Most are in agreement about the facts.

The people whipping this one up into a non-story are the media and other politicians!

Anonymous said...

Cameron wants a 21st Century debate, Hastilow wants a 20th Century one. End of story.

By concentrating on economic consequences, the ethnicity recedes as an issue. Of course we can have a debate about immigration - it's the "fettering" of those who make us too many that worries me. You cannot believe in freedom if you don't allow others the freedom you enjoy, and that includes the freedom to live wherever one pleases.

Anonymous said...

"You are not allowed to speak the truth as you see it in Britain in 2007."

Yes you are. You just shouldn't expect to be able to stand for a mainstream party if you are a racist pillock.

Anonymous said...

"The political incorrectness in this case was not mentioning immigration, but daring to acknowledge what the majority of the electorate - except, of course, for the out-of-touch political class and media who spend too much of their lives in London - agree with Enoch Powell’s analysis that the UK would change ‘irrevocably’."

No, it was seeming to imply agreement with such phrases as 'river of blood' and 'allowing the black man to have the whiphand'.

It's a truism to say that immigration has changed the UK. Although so far nothing as much as the Norman immigration.

Anonymous said...

Hastilow should have been sacked months ago for the disgusting, racist comments he made against Scottish people and Muslim people on his "blog". It was wrong for Spelperson to support him then and it is wrong that the party has been so mealy-mouthed in its criticism of Hastilow now.

I understand several enquiries are being made to the police concerning Hastilow's comments about Scots and Muslims to see whether an offence has been committed. His deselection may soon be the least of his worries.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the reason for the huge rise in mental instability in this country is the fact that everyone is forced to believed six impossible things before breakfast even though reason, observation, experience and common sense tell them something completely different.

Anonymous said...

jusith is bang to the money on this. The PPC might have been correct, but bringing back images of Enoch and all that goes with it frightens the floating voters.

The floating voters might be uncomfortable with immigration, they might even want it to stop entirely, but they dont want race riots on the streets, and they dont want the NF marching up and down their town square.

Anonymous said...

You can pass the buck all you like but I blame your leadership.
For the last few weeks, Dave has been putting out 'immigration' stories.

A look back at history always throws up a leader who eggs on the mob into a frenzy. As always, the little guy gets it.

Germany 1930's was the ultimate violation. Jews, catholics, Politicians, they were all eventually targetted.

When you Tories start to feel sorry for yourselves, boy!Do you feel sorry for yourselves!

None of you are pointing the finger at yourselves though!!

Spelman now wants a sensible debate and Dave doesn't realise that Phillips is having a dig.

You lost once again.Tories should grow up and behave as though you really really really want to be considered as a possible Party to run the Country and not the Party that everyone's forgot.


Anonymous said...

This case reminds me of the Pat Mercer debacle. Dave should defend his MP's right to free speech instead of sacking them. The Tories should stand up against political correctness, after all PC is the means that the left have used to gag genuine conservatives.

neil craig said...

This is one of the problems produced by PR. Everybody in each of the big parties is forced into the same straitjacket for fear of saying something which could embarass the other wing (or even as here, once reinterpreted by the media, can embarass*).

This makes serious political debate virtually impossible with effects which are all to obvious. A multitude of small parties which disagree with each other in front of the electors would introduce serious discussion & actual democratic choice to the system.

* On the Sunday morning TV interview with Dadid Davis the interviewer quoted not from Hasiltow's article but from the Observer's report on it & the "picanninies" remark in Powell's speech & asked him if it was proper for a candidate to say that.

Anonymous said...

The vast majority of all folks who commented on Mr. Hastilow's comments agreed with him.

The loss of good men like Mercer, Hastilow, and the toleating of the Islamist Conservative Muslim Forums' Islamist agenda just means that the Tories are still a corrupt, principleless party, just like they were when they lost 1997.

Britain needs a party that the people WANT, not a third-rate compromise that is little better than Labour.

Oh well, Britain's politics still resembles a Fish&Chip shop: Plenty of unhealthy, disgusting food on offer, but nothing that you would want to actually eat.

hatfield girl said...

'Hastilow has knocked that work back..', as Judith says and, worse, he has removed one of the most best advocates and most powerful of voices against further UK integration into the European Union under the Reform Treaty Constitution the Labour regime is about to force through.

Politically correct multiculturalism is just as keen on forcing the end of our independence as a nation state as it is in denouncing the plain speaking of forty years ago on immigration and its costs to most working people in England, whatever their race.

Yak40 said...

It's Guy Fawke's Day, where is he when we desperately need him ?

Hastilow was/is right, but once again the establishment can't bear the truth because of PC shrieking. So yet another boost for the fringe parties.

Still, don't worry, Gordon is proposing to reduce immigration by a whole 35,000 per year, that's the ticket, innit !

Anonymous said...

You missed the third side effect - another marginal seat for Iain Dale to apply for!

Iain Dale said...

Anonymous, how nice of you to be so concerned. I haven't been applying for seats since the beginning of the year, and I certainly won't be applying for this one. It is an area I hardly know.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 11:30 a.m. speaking of Enoch's speech and there being no "rivers of blood" (yet), adds: "The black man doesn't have the whip hand over the white man either."

Really? Trevor Phillips does not have the power to silence you and prosecute you if you offend him?

Anonymous 11:46 - " Do you seriously expect people to vote Tory if the party contains people who think 'Enoch was right!' ?"

Yes. It's the only way they'll vote for the Tory Party.

Another exciting Anonymous at 12:54 writes: 'Hastilow should have been sacked months ago for the disgusting, racist comments he made against Scottish people and Muslim people on his "blog". '

Why is "blog" in scare quotes?

Do you understand that the Scots are the same race as the English - Caucasians, so your accusation of "racism" is fascistic ignorance.

Do you understand that "muslim people" (aka muslims) are not a race? They are people of two or three races who buy into the islamic belief system, aka as a "religion". Islam is not a race. Islam is a religion. One is born of a particular race. One cannot leave it, even if one wanted to. One adheres to a religion on a daily basis. One can leave at any time. Can you understand the difference?

You add, "I understand several enquiries are being made to the police concerning Hastilow's comments about Scots and Muslims to see whether an offence has been committed." Well there speaks the spiteful little British Hitler. No one has a right to say anything the thought fascists disapprove of?

That's dangerous, because people like you don't even understand definitions, as I explain above.

I wish there were a literacy test for people posting on this site.

Anonymous said...

Yak40 It's Guy Fawke's Day, where is he when we desperately need him ?

Alive and well & living On the Afghanistan-Pakistan boarder - probably...

Anonymous said...

Shh.. !! Can you hear that noise ??

It is the deafening silence coming from the other MPs and parliamentary candidates in defence of Naughty Nigel. And no surprise. He has no place in the modern Tory party - and you can bet people will think twice before being so stupid as to voice such ill-considered views in future.

I know look forward to a knockabout approach from David Cameron at the next PMQs giving Gordon Brown, PM, a good kicking for his British jobs for British people conference balls up.

Anonymous said...

myifbVerity, usual poison.
"They are people of two or three races who buy into the islamic belief system, " is completely untrue. By "races" I assume you mean "nationalities", though it's unclear whether linguistic definition has reached your pre-magna carta world-view. There are plenty of British, French, German, etc. muslims.

The colour of Trevor Phillips skin seems to offend you as it offended Powell. It has no influence on the power of his perfectly reasonable voice.

You've said elsewhere that they should be "bribed to go back where they came from". Your obtuseness, your rigidity of thought defines you. Old Hat.

Harry J said...

'If he had then gone on to talk about the many benefits of immigration he might have escaped. But he didn't'.

That's the whole point. We're allowed to discuss the 'benefits' of immigration (though I suspect we'd differ on what they were) but not about the innumerable downside. A life long Labour voter, it's the exposure to the self evident downsides that has caused me to change my opinions on this matter. The Tories response to Nigel Hastilow has made it self evident that no adequate answer to the immigration problemwill come from them.

Harry J said...

Verity, I agree entirely with your comment at 2.55pm.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2:57 writes, when asking where Guy Fawkes is now that we really need him, "Alive and well & living On the Afghanistan-Pakistan boarder - probably...".

Well, it's better than living on the British dole.

Steve Horgan said...

Politics is a bit more complicated then just saying the first thing that pops into your head. If you wanted to say something intelligent about immigration, then just about the last thing you would do is to hark back to Enoch Powell's classic example of how not to do it. Immigration is a real issue that needs to be discussed in measured terms that gives no ammunition to our political enemies. A candidate that cannot manage that places a serious question mark on their suitability for the job.

Anonymous said...

What we are talking about ir truth. Free speech.

In a true democracy people can say what they wish and people defend to the death their right to speak it - even if one disagrees with it!

Cameron has spoken! The Conservative Party cannot tolerate freedom of expression. HE can talk about one legged Lithuanian Lesbians - and that is a joke!! and therefore okay but tell the Truth about one of the finest brains the Conservative Party ever had and.......get out!

It gets worse in this democracy of ours read this:- Just to give you a bit of a clue as to what we're up against I'd like to introduce you to the most Orwellian declaration of intent that I have ever read in a mainstream British newspaper.

The journalist who wrote what you are about to read, felt secure enough in his own elite, establishment role to lay his totalitarian beliefs on the line in his own column and, as the newspaper's editor and owners were content to see such material published, one must presume that they also were not averse to seeing such a Brave New World imposed upon the dumb, British herd.

This is what was said:

"Widespread and vigorous miscegenation (race mixing)... is the best answer...

”Teachers are the most effective anti-racist campaigners in the country, this means more than education in other religions, it means a form of political education. Only people who understand the economic forces changing their world, threatening them... have a chance of being immune to the old tribal chants. And the final answer, frankly, is the vigorous use of state power to coerce and repress... I firmly believe that repression can be a great, civilising instrument for good. Stamp hard on certain 'natural' beliefs for long enough and you can almost kill them off... A new Race Relations Act will impose the will of the state on millions of other lives too."

When I read this article I felt the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

1984? Animal Farm? We had arrived, we were there already. It wasn't paranoia after all, it was very, very real.

It didn't matter what we did, it didn't matter what we said, it didn't matter what we wanted, it didn't matter how we voted, the same old dark manipulators would always be in charge and we better start getting used to it, or else.

The liberal commissar responsible for the casual sabre rattle recorded above, was none other than that most languid Master of political ceremonies, Andrew Marr, top bloke at the BBC and one of the most powerful political journalists of the age.

The chattering classes have every bit as much of a hold over our lives as the politicians do.

They hand our opinions to us on a plate, they shape our beliefs and attitudes. Everything the media throws at us, from cradle to grave, affects the way we behave and think.

Shiny eyed zealots such as Andrew Marr and Brown do not care what we want or feel, they care only for the promised land that their wisdom, their insight and their determination will lead us on to in the future.

So now you know.

Now you know what THEY have been doing all this time.

Now you know what THEY have been thinking all this time.

Now you know what THEY are still doing and thinking and will carry on doing and thinking until THEY are stopped.

And they won't stop, you know.

They won't, all of a sudden, come to their senses. They won't change their minds and have some kind of Damascene conversion when they realise what terrible damage their idiot, schoolboy Bolshevism has done to us.

You see, we don't count, they do. We don't know, they do. It'll be good for us in the long run, you see.

We don't seem to have realised that "repression can be a great, civilising instrument for good". We don't seem to be aware that if evangelistic upper-crust brainboxes like Marr and Brown "stamp hard on certain natural beliefs for long enough" and "kill them off", why, we'll all live happily ever after in their global, elite-run Wonderland!

That's us Andrew Marr is talking about, folks.

The British people.

Actually, as Marr is Scottish and Broon is Scots-Irish, I reckon their desire to "coerce", "repress" "civilise" and "miscegenate" is aimed pretty exclusively at the English.

strapworld said...


Please give me chapter and verse the evidence to
support your outrageous statement:-
The colour of Trevor Phillips skin seems to offend you as it offended Powell. It has no influence on the power of his perfectly reasonable voice."

Unlike you I knew him and I can tell you he most certainly was not racist.

I find your statement insulting but worse, as you cannot back it up, indeed fraudulent!

Vienna Woods said...

I'm quite surprised that given the furore over the 1.5M immigrant workers, that Brown's active support for Turkish membership of the EU has not been attacked by the Tories. If you think the East European invasion of the UK is bad, just wait until the Turks their millions!

Anonymous said...

Tolerance(but only of One Worlders and The New World Order) 3:23 writes this in response to my correct statement that people of two or three races buy into the islamic belief system:

"[It's] "completely untrue. By "races" I assume you mean "nationalities",

Why did you assume that? When I write "races", I mean "races". See, "nationalities" is spelled entirely differently and has absolutely no bearing on "race". We cannot allow the socialists to keep clouding up definitions.

Adherents of the Dark Ages, unreformed islamic belief system come, in the main, from three races. These are Semites (Arabs), Nubians and Aryans (Iranians, Bosnians, Pakistanis and a little smattering of attention-seekers in W Europe).

See, that's why I wrote "races". I commend you to look the word up in the dictionary.

Explain why you write that the colour of Trevor Phillps's skin seems to offend me. In what sense? Could you explain, please? You seem to be a very muddled thinker with reading comprehension problems.

I intuit that you were never invited onto your school's debating team?

Anonymous said...

Anyone who says 'Enoch was right' is stupid on too many levels to go into here. Suffice to say that after Cameron has been trying to raise immigration in a thoughtful way this whohe moron has played into Labour's hands.

As all parties recognise that immigration has both advantages and disadvantages the person making this idiotic comment deserves everything they get.

Anonymous said...

Would that be the same Enoch Powell that was laid in State for two days at Westminster Abbey, with tens of thousands passing by his Coffin.
No one liked him did they!.

Anonymous said...

Liberal Hammer - In other words, you think voters should intuit what the party (any party) is going to do about immigration and not expect to be told in advance?

This is democracy? Self-censorship and thought Fascism?

Anonymous said...

I've long held the belief that Boris will deliver for Labour in London.

Hastilow has set the agenda and my guess is that Boris is eager to let rip. Not saying that Boris is racist or defends a racist championing racism of the last Century BUT...

This is the big topic and Boris is under starters orders.


Anonymous said...

They will remeber Adolph Hitler for a long time after they forget Enoch Powell, whom is most(infamous for 'rivers of blood' and er...erm.

Adolph went to all the kiddies parties in the SS hotel at Berchesgarten. 'Uncle' Adolph is always seen happy and jovial as he joins in the party games.

There are many people today who still worship his causes.

PS. As a paranoid Jew hater, he was responsible for the deaths of 6 million Jews and is ultimately responsible for over 30 Million others.

Nice with SS kids though.


Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter how you wrap it up, this is a major issue that voter's want addressed. David Cameron doesn't want it addressed - except on his terms, which is rather arrogant, to say the least - because it may give the socialists a rod to beat him with.

Well, that's life. Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell spent almost 10 years gagging anything that breathed and we were all repulsed.

The voters want to talk about immigration. Cameron only owns 1/60000000th of Britain. He simply does not get to decide how issues are addressed.

Do people really think the voters are going to vote for the Conservatives "on trust" - like a dog with a biscuit on its nose? Because they won't. They want the issue aired and they want a robust debate in which all opinions are heard.

Mulligan said...


Actually he said "people on the doorstep are saying that Enoch was right". So since when was reporting what other people were saying a hanging offence?

Anonymous said...

Gary Elsby 'Hastilow has set the agenda and my guess is that Boris is eager to let rip. Not saying that Boris is racist or defends a racist championing racism of the last Century BUT...'

What are you talking about, boyo ?

Boris has repeatedly pointed out that he has roots from a number of different nations and religions [I think he has claimed that he has Jewish, Christian and Moslem roots back at his great-granparents age] so I think it is entirely wrong and very scurrilous of you to suggest that Boris is anti immigration.

True, he has made some ill-judged remarks, but I think the lesson of Mr Hastilow is that one should see things in the round, and if one has a track record of upsetting the applecart, well then you deserve to be castigated, but not before..

Manfarang said...

The Bosnians are slavs(Europeans) with a tradition of sufi Islam.
The Iranians are shi'as which is not exactly unreformed.
I believe the migration figures include those coming from Australia,New Zealand and South Africa so a number of them would be of British descent.

Anonymous said...

I look forward to These are Semites , Nubians and Aryans being referred to in debates, but only when a time machine is invented to take us to the world you inhabit "verity" (a veritable bore).

My explanation for your offence (though fear is a better word) at Trevor Phillips' skin colour is that your tone is racist, and childish. Not to mention extremely out-moded. There is a sensible debate to be had about immigration, but thankfully it won't involve people like you at its centre.

"These are Semites (Arabs), Nubians and Aryans" PUH-LEASE!!!

Anonymous said...

"It is perfectly possible to have a reasonable debate about the amount of change that our society and infrastructure can accommodate without invoking the spirit of Enoch Powell." said Alex.

It is precisely because one cannot approach the subject from an open perspective, wherein all views are properly taken account of, that we have failed to arrive at an accomodation of views. Setting up honest views of former politicians, sticking your fingers in your ears and chanying the 'Racist, Racist' mantra of the vested interest groups is not an option anymore. Immigration policy has been bedevilled by a schizophrenic approach that acknowledges a problem and then refuses to take on board the views of the majority in its solution. Nanny knows best, it would still seem. Most politicians seem to have arrived at the conclusion that unfettered immigration is a drain on public resources within the economy but nobody dare postulate an optimum figure for UK population. Enoch was right on immigration; he was right on the Common Market and its salami-slicing tendency to subvert civil liberties. It was Grocer Heath and his cohorts that engineered the misreporting of his views and his subsequent character assassination.

Anonymous said...

Manfarang - You're right to point that out, but there isn't any point allowing bigots to get the debate to switch to the "differences" between races - it just plays into the hands of bigots.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous: Quite right, Boris should be nailed when and only when he goofs.

I've long held the belief that Boris is the fall guy for dave.

Note that Boris always (always) serves up a corker, just before sensible Dave delivers his unwritten (but well written and rehearsed) speeches.

If you say Boris is not a racist then so be it. If you say he's a Tory, so be it. If you say he's up for mayor and stands a chance then so be it.

Put all that together and I absolutely guarantee you that Boris will deliver into our hands.

I'm not entirelt convinced that you have to be a racist (a big no no in politics) to say something racist.There is a difference between gassing Jews and wanting immigration curtailed.

I doubt that the bufoon in Boris will be suppressed by a first class graduate.
|Dave reads all my blogs and he will have Boris's notice already written out ready for the day.


Vienna Woods said...

Tapestry wrote,

“Enoch was wrong. There have been millions of immigrants but no rivers of blood.”

Oh, is that so! What about the riots in Brixton in 1981 and 1995. Wasn’t PC Blakelock hacked to death with machetes during the Broadwater Farm riots, in 1985. Then, of course, there were the riots in Toxteth in 1981 when more than 500 police officers were injured. We should not forget either, the riots in Bradford and Oldham during the summer of 2001.

I’m not apportioned blame on any ethnic group, but the fact of the matter is that all of these incidents involved racial clashes…..and plenty of blood!

Anonymous said...

Intolerance of Bigotry (the definition of which you understand as well as you understand "racism") ... so British. Any little chance to elevate yourself above others and feel a tiny glow of superiority. If the English have one defining characteristic, it's a desire to feel superior to other people. I put it down to the class system, which doesn't exist any more, but lingers in the national psyche. You are entitled to your illusions.

I do not believe for one instant that you give a damn' about islam or immigrants. Your posts ring false and your deliberate (or worse, ignorant) misinterpretation of what others write advertises that.

Someone, an Anonymous, probably you, wrote that when I wrote "races", I had really meant to write "nationalities". I was then obliged to explain the difference to him. I also had to explain that a religion is a belief system freely adopted and that race is a condition of birth. Thus, being a racist makes no sense.

However, islam is not a race and nor is it a nationality, as I have been at some pains to point out.

Manfarang - and your point? I pointed out that Aryans (including Bosnians) are among the adherents of Islam. And there are a few assorted moonbats scattered around Western Europe who have adopted this bizarre belief system. What is your problem?

Intolerance - Arguing with individuals with a raging inferiority complex and a sad lack of education is no fun and I am off this thread. Insult away! - I won't be reading your it.

Anonymous said...

"Arguing with individuals with a raging inferiority complex and a sad lack of education "

It's the fact that you might influence others that I take you to task, and you're right, it's no fun to argue with a no-brain, but thanks for your concern. Enjoy your ignorance.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 1:11 - Your generous wish that I enjoy my ignorance, as defined by a halfwit such as yourself, is too trite,darling. Surely your brain cells, both of them, can come up with something sharper than that?

Anonymous said...

Not worth the application of one part of one brain cell. Ignorance is bliss for some.

There's only one race, Verity, the big one known as the human race.

Our differences look minuscule from not very far above - there really isn't much point getting aerated, as I'm about as likely to come round to your view as you are to mine. Whose will prevail? Whose are more consistent with spreading wealth-creation and opportunity? At least I occasionally have the humility to admit I'm not sure.

I thought you'd gone anyway.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I thought I'd gone too, but there are two threads on Hastilow, close together and very similar and I posted on the wrong one by mistake.

Oh, those British mahatamas! No other nation has such a keen hunger to see itself as superior to its fellow citizens as the English. Not the British. The English.

Only one race! The human race! Am I right in assuming you don't 'celebrate diversity' then?

Anonymous said...

Yes, Verity, I celebrate it - and I defend the right of a philatelist to celebrate the diversity of stamps. The difference is some stamps are worth more than others, and I don't agree that that is true of Human Beings. It's one thing to point out a difference and say "vive!" to it, but quite another to deride and discriminate.

If I didn't appreciate diversity, I wouldn't talk to small-brained self-inhibitors like you!

Sharp enough?