Tuesday, July 10, 2007

IDS on the Road to Social Justice

I haven't had a chance to go through Iain Duncan Smith's report in detail yet, but I want to point you towards THIS article by IDS on ConservativeHome in which he explains the background to the report. I don't expect I will agree with all of it but there is no doubt that if we get beyond the ususal political argy-bargy it is a report of immense importance and highlights issues which many politicians would rather shy away from.

ConservativeHome has undergone a facelift this week. I very much like the new clear style and easier navigation. Better get a move on with this site's redesign, I guess!


Anonymous said...

Resign? I hope not, I only started reading last month.

Anonymous said...

surely u mean design.

Hughes Views said...

From today's Snowmail under the heading "Inspectors in our bedrooms?" (media bias or measured reporting of the Quiet Man turned Nanny Numero uno? You chose).

"The Tories have made the biggest splash suggesting they will offer a £20 tax incentive to couples to get married maybe they will also think fines for people who get divorced.

Forget the nanny state, is this going to be the Full Monty bedroom state? Will Her Majesty's Inspector come into to our bedrooms to view proceedings to ensure we have no tax dodgers? I mean how married do you have to be?

Supposing there is a spot of adultery, will that involve a slight tax rebate or will you have to give back some portion of the £20 the state has given you to honour your vows. Come back God, all is forgiven."

Anonymous said...

Hmmm all these tax inducements to get married Iain, time to grow that moustache?

Anonymous said...

"IDS on the Road to Social Justice"

So that's the Bob (without a) Hope role sorted out. Is Hunky Dunky pencilled in as Bing?

Anonymous said...

I think it's a very commendable and important report too, plent to get your teeth into and lots of practical workable ideas. Such a shame that on the day that the Tory party announces it's plans to mend broken Britain that I discover my local Labour Party is planning to close childrens homes.
These abominable people need to be exposed!

Anonymous said...

"These abominable people need to be exposed!"

In front of elderly ladies, presumably?

Anonymous said...

As someone who has always supported labour, but in recent years has become increasingly disaffected by their policies, constant legislation changes & almost evangelical political correctness, I have found myself doing something that five or ten years ago I would have never considered. That’s correct, I have found myself slowly listening to what conservative politicians have to say as opposed to throwing a cushion at the TV & turning over.

The one thing that in my opinion both parties are lacking, is discussion of the real issues that are affecting middle England. Crime, immigration & the billions of pounds in benefits that are being squandered on anyone who asks.

It appears that the media are picking up on the fact that this once great nation is indeed “broken”. Well as a hard working tax payer & decent citizen with a good circle of similar friends I can truly say that’s how we all feel. Is middle England not the financial backbone of this country? Yet how can we feel so isolated & let down. Instead of new stealth taxes should we not being shaming the lazy back to work, cutting (STOPPING) the benefits of criminals (& locking them up for real prison sentences).

As a Police Officer I can truly say that society’s back is broken. It is the decent folks who are easy targets. It is they whose lives are blighted by thugs & criminals. Thugs & criminals who go unchecked, who laugh at the pathetic judicial system.

My point is; (before I explode into a full blown rant) this report, talking about helping married couples, recognising how badly out of shape our society has become etc… has made me raise an eyebrow. I like the idea of talking normally, of helping married couples. I like the idea of recognising that we are in bad shape & taking strides to fixing things.

The points raised in the report are only the tip of the iceberg. Whichever politician steps up & starts saying what we are all thinking instead of pandering to the liberal elite, will get the voters attention.

Keep it simple, that’s what we want. Simple & to the point.

up the workers


Anonymous said...

It looks like a desperate gathering, all sat round the table with their bottle of wine trying to come up with something.Anything that may look like they are doing something,anything,and they're not.Talk about a weary Party and the Tory Party is it.It's boring the populous to death.Tony used to come up with a policy a day,how we laughed.Your man appears to be following his idol into oblivion.We got rid of our problem, now you need to get rid of yours,dump the toff.

Anonymous said...

Curly said...

I think it's a very commendable and important report

No it's not, it's rubbish man.

Newmania said...


Great contribution. You are saying what most of the country is thinking .

Hughs Views- Funny but rubbish. Simiarly the Liberal idea that the criminal should make recompense to the victim was lamponed as, " Saving up for a murder". There will be wrinkles but its not as if the pond was smooth .At the moment we have an unmitigated disaster and perfect can be the enemy of better

Newmania said...

TROLL SAID-Tony used to come up with a policy a day,how we laughed.

Clearly you are not a tax payer

James Burdett said...

I think that the work IDS has done on this crucial area of public policy is amazing. It shows that he is a bigger man than most of the petty individuals who attack him in puerile terms.

Anonymous said...

Newmania said...


Great contribution. You are saying what most of the country is thinking .

How the hell are you qualified to know what most of the country is thinking.You are as daft as a brush and need to leave your room more.What most of the country is thinking indeed,fool.

Anonymous said...

James Burdett said...

I think that the work IDS has done on this crucial area of public policy is amazing.

I suggest you go out canvassing for your party and see what the voters think of this load of hogwash.They don't care,they have more important things to worry about.

Anonymous said...

The wicked thing is that the benefits system acts as a major disincentive for poorer parents to live together with their children. Also having more children is incentivised if you are on benefits.

Anonymous said...

This issue highlights the conflict between Old Con and Nu Con, I think.

Old Con was about principles, Nu Con is about positioning. Once Dangerous Dave realizes how devastatingly slippery the whole thing will become he will quietly bury it.

You cannot introduce penalties for lone parents in this day and age, for you may as well be suggesting that single mothers be sent to the workhouse. That is how it will play and that is how Labour are already playing it.

Much as I admire IDS and his work, the introduction of a taxation scheme with so much putative moral judgemental value must be a vote loser.

We should be asking our politicians to withdraw from tampering with social mores, not interfering like this, and though Old Conservatism was about principles, it was also about personal freedom from government meddling in our personal lives and ironically this is just what this report seems to be about.

I think marriage is important and that each child should have two parents, one of whom should be prepared to stay at home and look after that child. But I also believe it is not something anybody else should concern themselves with, let alone a group of MPs who are probably all visiting Madam Whiplash for a poop sandwich in between delivering homilies on family values.

Anonymous said...

I don't want to re-iterate how much I loathe David Cameron, but I just read "his" ghostwritten piece in The Telegraph and agree with it. He is not bright enough to have written it himself -- let's face it, he was not bright enough to communicate with the Huskies he hired to go with the floes - but that he endorsed it is a good sign.

I still hate him.

Manfarang said...

Elsewhere there are people feeling just the same as you.They call the feeling "ostalgie".
Defend the workers!

Anonymous said...

wrinkkled weasel said...

Agree with your every word,and that's a first on this forum.

Anonymous said...

verity said...

I don't want to re-iterate how much I loathe David Cameron.

Well don't for Gods sake,we get the message.Your posts are always nasty and vindictive,stop.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

The wicked thing is that the benefits system acts as a major disincentive

And they also help people who are struggling to make a life of sorts.Not all have good jobs and nice homes.Not all who are on benefits are there by choice.Before you post another moronic comment in this vein I suggest you walk in their shoes for a while.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to make a general point about IDS and the papers his team have been producing.

I first spotted him real-time in the Gallowgate in Glasgow a few years back after he (thankfully) stepped down from being Tory leader.

Gallowgate is a severely deprived area of Glasgow. When I looked out the bus and saw him I have to admit I thought something like: 'who is that baldy posh twat in the stripped suit nicking about in an area like this?'.

Then when I saw the following media coverage of his visit I thought: 'Oh, another media stunt in the style of Blairite spin'.

But when I read some of the reports from his team I thought they were well evidenced and well-reasoned, albeit I disagreed with much of the policy analysis and conclusions.

Now I find a few years later he is still ploughing that same furrow of going out 'there' on the streets and trying to somehow engage national policy-making with what's really happening on the ground with real people in real communities (and outside the metro-London belt!).

I'm willing to give him and his team ten-out-of-ten marks for all this. It doesn't matter that I still do not agree with much of the prescriptions - the diligent and accountable process is what counts and is to be respected.

But will the Tory party actually take any notice... still less, put anything from these extensive reports into policy )other than the bits that the more reactionary types like about 'punishing' or 'requiring' single parents to do this or that?)

Roger Thornhill said...

Unfortunately the report is chock full of Statist interventionism, IMHO, however well meaning.

It does have a fantastic section on Education but totally ignores the criminal supply chain in drugs and how to neutralise it - remove the illegality and supply consistent, cheap clean products.

The fact is once you get people employed by the State to manage a problem it becomes their rice bowl. The temptation to expand that operation or at least perpetuate and not SOLVE the problem is, I am afraid, often beyond people.

The report recognises that voluntary, independent groups are best. What it does not say, and in fact says the reverse, is that the State should get out of the way and tax people less so they can donate more.

Newmania said...

Pensioners are us said
"You are as daft as a brush and need to leave your room more" She said

I leave my room all day every day to go to work and as such I meet a wide variety of people.I also have a social life . These resources are nothing special .They are however infinitely superior to those available to a needy old fart who turns up at right wing sites in the hope someone will talk to him if he sprays enough quasi leftist prattle around .
I doubt you have any poltical interest or belief and my noticing you at all is an act of private charity. I don`t expect you to humiliate yourself by admitting the truth of this but a little gratitude for those who feel sorry for you might be in order.

The Hitch said...

that reminds me of a very apt talking heads song.

"We're on a road to nowhere"

Good old IDS does it again.

Anonymous said...

"a very apt talking heads song"

surely "talking b**&&ks"?

Anonymous said...

Grannys.Myth.Peeler said...

"It is the decent folks who are easy targets."

Yes, but as such they are also victims.

"Instead of new stealth taxes should we not being shaming the lazy back to work"

All very well but this easily leads to saying that all the unemployed are lazy. It's simply not true. People who, for example, have spent 40 years in laying tarmac on roads are unemployed because work suitable for them is not offered to them.

No-one wants them as shop assistants, salesman, image consultants or any of the other twaddle peddled on the Micky Mouse 'courses' these people get subjected to.

I recently came across one person with a good work record, applying for all types of jobs none of which are going to be offered to him. He'd been on a nonsense course supposedly about IT. They had sat him in front of a computer and told him to type in his name. The program transferred his name to a colourful printout. He thought that meant he was doing IT so some of the jobs he applied for were in IT. (Actually more like ICT but hey-ho.) It's not going to happen.

It's difficult not to laugh at such people, but it's also cruel and unfair. Not every person is suited to all jobs.

I know you did not say 'all' but you left open that possibility. It may be that Blair has forced many on the left to see the folly of their former ways. But you need to be careful. This is a tory site and many of them will use any excuse to shoot the working class.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:13

Point taken, I do not think that all the unemployed are lazy. Its difficult not to sound like your generalising when briefly discussing a topic with out putting little warnings everywhere so as not to offend.

However there are groups in my experience that have not & will not work. Not as long as money is being thrown at them by government. There will always be certain people who will take advantage of any given situation but surely the government should take a serious look at recouping some of this money.

For example do you think repeat / prolific offenders should be entitled to benefits?

I agree with your point about useless back to work courses.

Anonymous said...

"For example do you think repeat / prolific offenders should be entitled to benefits?"

I think most of them will want to carry on being alive, so they will need money and it has to come from somewhere.

Prolific offenders may genuinely be unable to get work. Their own fault entirely, I agree but unless you actually want to guarantee work for the police etc some income has to be arranged.

Whether such people should perhaps be obliged to do some work for the State in return for an income is another matter.