Monday, January 21, 2008

Hansard Society Invites Three Scots To Discuss English Votes

The much respected Hansard Society has an interesting event planned for 6th February. They have a debate on the West Lothian Question. The question being put is this: Is the West Lothian Question unanswerable? Sadly I will be in the US, so I won't be able to go, but I shall certainly miss some cracking debate. This is what the blurb says:
The Scottish voters have elected a nationalist administration to govern
them but where does this leave the rest of the UK? Is the West Lothian Question
unanswerable? will consider questions such as; Is the Union under threat? Is an
English Grand Committee the answer? Could a federal UK work?

So, then, you might ask: who are the speakers?

They are Lord Falconer and Sir Malcolm Rifkind. The debate will be chaired by the broadcaster Sheena McDonald (an ex girlfriend of Gordon Brown).

Now dear reader, what do this august threesome have in common? They're all Scots! Nothing wrong with that, but if you hold a debate on the unfairnesses towards the English in the current arrangement, wouldn't it be a nice idea to have a token Englishman/woman on the panel? Not according to the Hansard Society. Steve Uncles from the English Democrats made a gentle enquiry and was told:
The reason we chose these speakers is that they are both representatives of
the Westminster parliament and have considerable experience of the issue we are
debating. We do not choose speakers on grounds of their nationality for this or
any other meeting, but on their experience of the issues we wish them to
debate.

So that's alright then. I can't actually think what expertise Lord Falconer has in this subject beyond being Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs, a period during which I cannot recall a single utterance he made on the subject.

I think this comes under the category of 'you couldn't make it up'.

Full details of the debate can be found HERE.

45 comments:

Anonymous said...

Unbloodybelievable anywhere else in the world, except McBritain! That's just the sort of arrogance from Scots that we are all sick and tired of.
No wonder tempers are fraying.

Anonymous said...

And let me guess, all these anti-English communist Jocks, who are all living the "Dream" living, working and earning their nice £nglish Poonds will tel us £nglish "Eloi" that theres "no demand for an English Parliament", and "Oh we must 'protect' the 'Union'" blah blah blah hen its Mclabour who broke the "Union" up in the first place and now wanna break up £ngland into 'regions' just because their masters in the EUSSR told them to so its easier for them to rule!.

England BEFORE the (now null and void) "Union", English Parliament NOW!, Scottish Politicians BACK up to the Scots Region of EU! - your NOT wanted!.

PS. Scotland, wales and Northern ireland can have the EUSSR "reform treaty CONstitution!, who cares!, just leave England OUT of it!.

Whishart said...

if you are going to have a debate like this would it not also be fair to have Scottish and English Nationalist's there instead of a panel of unionist stooges

Dougthedug said...

"Is the West Lothian Question
unanswerable?"

Of course not, but the answer involves ditching devolution. The philosophy of devolution is the transfer of limited powers from a strong centre to peripheral regions. Devolution, as intended, has kept the machinery of government in Westminster pretty much unchanged at the centre of England/Britain.

However the answer to the WLQ within the Union is not devolution but a federal solution where all four home nations get a parliament. This is a completely different system of government to devolution.

That's why the answer to the WLQ is kept under wraps. Once England has its own separate parliament, the unitary Anglo-British state which Brown, Clegg and Cameron all want to keep is gone. Once Englishness is separated out from Britishness there's not much of Britishness left. If you answer the WLQ you can kiss the Union goodbye and that's why even Cameron has backed off sharpish from the question.

Lord Falconer and Sir Malcolm Rifkind do not want the WLQ answered as they're both British Nationalists so I don't think you'll get much of a debate. I've no idea about Sheena McDonald but if she's an ex of Broon's she'll be a British Nationalist too.

It's a bit odd there's no English voice on the panel as English policies are the ones being voted on by Scottish MP's. Then again, an English voice might raise awkward issues best left unsaid.

I say we should answer the WLQ now.

maria said...

"Unitary Anglo-British State"? Nonsense. It's a unitary Scot-British State. Constitutionally there's no such thing as the English or England.

The location of Westminster has nothing to do with it. It's located in a UK region. Nobody calls it "England", and there is no English flag flying there. It's upper echelons are dominated by MPs representing Scots constituencies. Scot-Britishness has obliterated Englishness.

The Hansard Society debate panel is yet more proof of how the vast rump of the "UK" (formerly known as England), is being dictated to by Scots, whilst UK Rump MPs (formerly English MPs) sit about getting fat.

DAVID TURNER said...

Lord Falconer and Sir Malcolm Rifkind. The debate will be chaired by the broadcaster Sheena McDonald (an ex girlfriend of Gordon Brown

They are all Brits not Scots all would sell scotland down the River for English Gold as Rabbie Burns would say a parcel roughes

of A Tory victory at the next General election can not come Quick Enough it would Guarantee Scottish Independence

Why do you Tories not see that Scottish Independence would work in your favor you would almost be guaranteed to win nearly every election for an English Parliament
if you kept first past the postLord Falconer and Sir Malcolm Rifkind. The debate will be chaired by the broadcaster Sheena McDonald (an ex girlfriend of Gordon Brown

They are all Brits not Scots all would sell scotland down the River for English Gold as Rabbie Burns would say a parcel rouges

A Tory victory at the next General election can not come Quick Enough it would Guarantee Scottish Independence

Why do you Tories not see that Scottish Independence would work in your favor you would be guaranteed to win nearly every election for an English Parliament
if you kept first past the post

John M Ward said...

The correct answer is -- assuming the so-called Reform (or Lisbon) Treaty is ratified in Britain -- we no longer need a full-blown Parliament, as I recently wrote HERE

What will be left would be essentially England-only, and precious little of that. I say: save the money, avoid the pretence. An English equivalent of what the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish have will suffice in future.

True Brit said...

The usual Dale tolerated/approved anti-Scots xenophobes crawl out from under their rocks with their usual uninformed, ignorant prejudice. No change there then.

Don't forget, Labour has a large majority of MPs in England, so England has the Labour government that England elected under our electoral rules - nothing to do with the Scots.

skip said...

As a scottish nationalist it is safe to say that the all-scottish panel for this debate do not represent me either.

They will advance the cause anything to keep the united kingdom together. The want their nose in the UK trough... Rifkind now representing a London constituency and his Lordship Falconer prancing around in ermin robes.

Labour wants the scottish votes from the north and the scots MPS as lobby fodder. The Tories are bound by party convention to stop the break up of the union at all costs.

The best options are a federal UK where westminster only convenes for UK-wide issues like war & peace... defence, EU treaties and nationwide customs and excise duties. Everything else could be done by a Scots, English, Welsh or N Irish Parliaments. This would end the West Lotian Question.

OR the other simple option is for Independence for all constituent parts of the UK. On that basis... This debate should really have SNP, English Democrats, and Lib Dems present to promote these alternatives.

Other solutions seems to be half-measures with loopholes. Rifkind will advance the grand committees idea. Falconer will be the 'devolution works' spokesperson.

The first post is a bit harsh here: "That's just the sort of arrogance from Scots that we are all sick and tired of" [anon]. It is not the fault of these Scots that they were chosen for this debate. It is not the fault of ordinary Scots north of the border than we have these buffoons representing us at the debate.

Alfie said...

I've already registered before Christmas and will be there...... Falconer, I'm coming for ya!!!!

Toque said...

Don't forget, Labour has a large majority of MPs in England, so England has the Labour government that England elected under our electoral rules

If its a government that England elected then why are the Prime Minister and Chancellor Scottish MPs?

We didn't elect them, and can't sack them either. They don't have the plurality of the vote in England and they don't have a mandate.

Don't try and use a gerrymandered electoral system to defend the Raj.

Daniel Lucraft said...

"The Scottish voters have elected a nationalist administration to govern them"

Anyone else find this a weird statement? The SNP aren't nationalists. I guess you'd say they're for statehood or something....

Not a sheep said...

Truebrit(?): "Don't forget, Labour has a large majority of MPs in England, so England has the Labour government that England elected under our electoral rules" Yes but a minority of the popular vote, so maybe the electoral rules need amending?

wildgoose said...

Lord Falconer has already made his opinion on an English Parliament clear when he said devolution to England would never happen under a Labour government, and I quote:

"Not today, not tomorrow, not in any kind we can see now".

In other words this is just a sham designed to keep England under the Jockboot.

simon said...

Well, if the English don't use Scots tactics to achieve more 'power' for the English people- then more fool the English. What is needed is for Scots questioned on 'the English question' is the 'what's it got to do with you?' 'You're not English!' statements. In-fact, i would expect people living near the 'debate' to go along and ask these very questions. What the Scots Parly, the Taff Assembly, and the thing in Northern Ireland are a RACIAL 'law-making' bodies. It is highly unlikely anybody not belonging to a racial clique is going to be 'First Minister/whatever' of any of the devolved bodies! That's what the game is- nothing really to do with 'democracy' as a whole, as the EU is rampant- and our own elected representatives are not really representative of what the people actually want!

english democrat said...

Don't forget the SUBSIDY. Iain Campbell McDale is SCOTTISH, but it is ENGLISH CASH that pays for his diabetes.

Iain Dale said...

Hilarious! Yes, I am a quarter Scottish. But I have never lived in Scotland and pay my taxed in England. Therefore I pay for my own health costs, thank you very much. Idiot.

Man in a Shed said...

Lord Falconer has almost single handily driven the campaign for an English Parliament - thanks to his arrogance.

This is very clearly a stitch up by the Scottish-British establishment.

anglo-scot said...

I think Malcolm Rifkind has more of a right to speak on English issues than Iain Dale, for the most important reason that, unlike Iain, Rifkind has managed to get himself elected in England, whereas Iain lost the Conservatives' number one target seat by a majority of over 10,000 at the last election.

Who speaks for the English? Certainly not the unelected Iain Dale.

Anonymous said...

"The much respected Hansard Society has an interesting event planned for 6th February."

You poor innocent sap Iain.

A straightforward in-your-face lie
" We do not choose speakers on grounds of their nationality ----"

so now we know that the Hansard Society is just another seedy , corrupt , Blairised organisation like all the others we used to trust to be genuinely impartial

Another illusion shattered !

Roll on English self government and an end to this stale old British charade .

Man in a Shed said...

Anglo-scot-

Every free Englishman is entitled to say what he wants and we'll listen to who we want to. ( Its a blog anyway - you don't need to read it ! Go back to lurking under bridges.)

The problem is that part of the Scottish establishment is trying to stifle debate - and not even trying any subtlety.

Josh said...

Malcolm Rifkind is the MP for Kensington and Chelsea therefore is English as far as this matter is concerned. Where he was born doesn't matter.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"so now we know that the Hansard Society is just another seedy , corrupt , Blairised organisation like all the others we used to trust to be genuinely impartial"


David Cameron (Joint Vice-President)

Andrew Lansley (Joint Vice-Chair)

Obviously, a seedy, corrupt organisation.

Anonymous said...

Daniel Lucraft said...

"The SNP aren't nationalists."

Maybe they ought to change the name of the party then.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anglo Scot that there is good reason for Malcolm Rifkind to be heard on this.
As for Sheena McDonald - she may have been seen in GB's company, but was never his girlfriend.

hatfield girl said...

The New Labour practice of inhabiting distinguished, but no longer functional in terms of their declared 20th or even 19th century objectives, organisations is remarkable. The Labour party itself is nothing like the party whose honourable history and aims are traduced by the current incumbants; the Fabian Society, the Hansard Society, the Royal Society of Arts, cultural foundations of every national and local kind - it goes on and on - and gets larger in scope:the universities as their business plans and bureaucracies overthrow academic control; major, long established charitable foundations, and on, into co-operatives, demutualised building societies and provident associations, financial institutions various - you name it, New Labour apparatchiks are there dressed in the grave clothes of institutions and organisations whose honourable past they claim. At the international level it's amazing they don't dig up the League of Nations, but Gordon Brown and his zombie party can be found emphasising the role of the United Nations and operating the limbs of a once functional body, long defunct in purpose or achievement.

We are conducting our political discourse in a ghostly landscape of dead institutions and the reanimated corpses of once worthwhile objectives, while the real world is arranged to suit the post democratic power elites.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"As for Sheena McDonald - she may have been seen in GB's company, but was never his girlfriend."

How do you know what their precise relationship was? Everyone around them seemed to think that she was his girlfriend.

Anonymous said...

anonymous at 11.44 am

Sheens McDonald has definitely been touted as a past girlfriend of GB.
She has never denied it as far as I know. Perhaps she was used to allay certain "doubts" about the future PM?

Anonymous said...

Speaking from the English p of v I also agree that a debate on the West Lothian Question might well usefully include a Scot or two .

But just Scots and no English at all ?

Not even a litte bitty attempt at even handedness!

a little bit biased don't you think

or are your senses so dulled by years of intimidation and discrimination against the English you are incapable of discerning it ?

Anonymous said...

There seems to be a lot of hostility towards the Scots from many of the English contributors. The problem for the English democratic deficit is not the Scots but the Labour Party which is scared witless by the prospect of an English Parliament with a perpetual non-labour majority.
So don't blame the Scots. Remember the Scots had the guts to kick Labour out last May.

Aristotle Mac said...

There seems to be a lot of hostility towards the Scots from many of the English contributors. The problem for the English democratic deficit is not the Scots but the Labour Party which is scared witless by the prospect of an English Parliament with a perpetual non-labour majority.
So don't blame the Scots. Remember the Scots had the guts to kick Labour out last May.

Anonymous said...

Why do we not get a debate on why the head of state is allways born in England or why numerous nations across have an english head of state, as a result. I think this would be a good way of mocking moronic claim that the english are an opressed line that the Tories want to use. Oh by the way this is 1st scottish pm for 60 years Oooh the english are sooooo oppressed.

Anonymous said...

Wy don't they ask why the head of state is allways english. Why can't we have a non english head of state.

Anonymous said...

England is the most oppressed nation in the planet. I hear the jews and the palestians have decided to give up their war to help the poooor english. Yes the nation that has a head of state who runs dozens of nations is opressed now!. The same nation that forced the celtic nations, including cornwall, by the gun and sword to take it's language is now oppressed, because we have non english pm for the first time in 6 decades. Oh and apparenlty it is subsiding a nation that has oil. That is pretty impressive. What other rubbish do you english extremists say next, your giving welfare payments to king of saudi arabia.

Anonymous said...

Iain, you are far too derogatory in tone regarding being Scottish. Normally you are more careful but this time have stepped over the line. Rifkind is MP for Kensington and Chelsea, are you saying because he's Scottish that he can't represent the views of his English electorate? Or that anyone with a different nationality who has lived in England for many years can't represent English concerns? Whatever ever that is. There is no simple English view just as there is no simple Scottish view. That is as daft an argument as Scots and Welsh complaining about the many English Prime Ministers who have controlled those countries.

Carl Mac said...

Very odd. Them being Scots is incidental.

The issue here is an answer to the West Lothian Question and judging by the tone and participants they want a conclusion that it is not.

Whish begs the question why they have not invited those who say they have an answer?

Salmond: Independence Only Answer To West Lothian Question

Now why have they not invited anybody from the SNP?

Anonymous said...

The Kensington and Chelsea voters did not vote for Rifkind they voted for the Conservative Party that parachuted Rifkind into the constituency.
K and C would vote for a varnished turd as long as it had the word "Conservative" attached.

ENGLISH DEMOCRAT said...

Iain Dale isn't English. He's admitted he's Scottish and he has Scottish family. He supports David Davis who is AGAINST England having her own Parliament. His 18 Doughty Street TV station supports the butchering of England into Euro regions. He has called the English people idiots.

An English Parliament isn't enough. We need laws to stop ANYONE with SCOTTISH BLOOD like IAIN CAMPBELL MCDALE from being elected an MP in ENGLAND.

ENGLISH PARLIAMENT NOW!!!!

NO to SCOTTISH harvesting of ENGLISH ORGANS!!!

Josh said...

Iain, English Democrat is clearly a troll, why are you letting through his comments?

Why can't we have a non english head of state.

The current monarchy is descended from the Stuart line.

Man in a Shed said...

Bit of a high Troll count here - means there's something the New Labour maggots want to smear.

Maybe I've been missing something but I had Iain down as a regular supporter of an English Parliament. 18DS (which is missed) gave time to English nationalism and the issue.

Anonymous said...

"English Democrat" would appear to be a New Labour Troll.

New Labour are terified of the English issue.

Canvassing in Local Elections Labour Activists have called the pro-english parliament party - the English Democrats - Fascists - Fascists of course means anti-parliamentarian - I think that most people are coming to realise that the Scottish Led Labour party are acually the fascists

Todd Wells said...

A Prime Minister called Brown from Fife,
Gave the English a terrible fright,
He increased public borrowing,
Until he was robbing 'em,
So at the election, he was told, to take a hike...........

Anonymous said...

9:54 What a disgrace.

Anonymous said...

The fascist jocks are crapping themselves again! I have enough contempt for them as it is without them increasing it. Honestly, just how cowardly as these people?
And why is Faulkner referred to as Lord Faulkner? He got that title 'cos he knew Blair! He is know more a lord than I am.

True Brit said...
The usual Dale tolerated/approved anti-Scots xenophobes crawl out from under their rocks with their usual uninformed, ignorant prejudice. No change there then.

Don't forget, Labour has a large majority of MPs in England, so England has the Labour government that England elected under our electoral rules - nothing to do with the Scots.

January 22, 2008 12:29 AM

True brit, I have scotch relatives! My great grandfather was a jock!! Bang goes your theory ah? True brit, how does it go again? If the other side (The English) are getting to the nitty gritty say something like "oh, you just hate scots!" Like I stated, my great grandfather was a scot!

"Labour has a large majority of MPs in England"

So? What does this have to do with the unfair treatment of the entire English nation? It has nothing all to do with the question at hand!

"England has the Labour government that England elected under our electoral rules - nothing to do with the Scots"

No, England does not have a govt that England elected! Who elected Gordon Brown? Who? I am sure you cant tto answer. "Nothing to do with the jocks"? Of course it has everything to do with the jocks. "The jocks" (in his SCOTTISH constituency) voted Gordon Brown into Westminster (England); not one English-based person did! So, the English did not vote for Gordon Brown at all.
What? the English got what govt they asked for?
In England, more people voted for the conservatives! New labour were second. So, "England" did not get what it asked for!


Anonymous said...

Rifkind is MP for Kensington and Chelsea, are you saying because he's Scottish that he can't represent the views of his English electorate?

He isn't ; I AM! Rifkind DOES NOT represent MY VIEWS! He isn't English!
Oh by the way, you accidentally forgot to mention that Rifkind's constituents DID
NOT VOTE HIM IN! He was parachuted in by his party! Yet another example of SCOTTISH FASCISM!

"[Are you saying]
that anyone with a different nationality who has lived in England for many years can't represent English concerns?"

Rifkind does not represent English concerns! When has he EVER stood up for the English? Name one time! Go on, I dare you to try and invent something!

"That is as daft an argument as Scots and Welsh complaining about the many English Prime Ministers who have controlled those countries"

Ha! ha! You heard that one then. Yeah, I have heard it all my life! It's funny how the English never hear that complaint anymore aint it?

I am so glad to see the scottish tyrants in new labour are STILL petified of the English. What a bunch of yellow bellies!

Anonymous said...

An interesting debate. Frankly I would like the English to be given a vote on Scottish independence. I believe that the majority of us would readily support it. This way they are gone and we will finally have our freedom.