Many of you (and various other bloggers) got very exited over the weekend when I wrote that I consider the BNP to be an intrinsically left of centre party, with very little in common with those of us on the right. Longrider has an excellent post today defending what I said and attacking the leftists who threw their toys out of their prams. But the totally independent British Political Compass has come to my aid too, with this natty little diagram showing where each political party falls on the right/left libertarian/authoritarian axes. The BNP is shown clearly on the left.
Anyway, I thought I would take the UK Political Compass test. The red mark indicates my offical result, whereas the green dot indicates where I think I really am!
Comparing this to the diagram at the top of the page, I have come out way too close to the LibDems for my liking! Must have been all those answers about the free availability of pornography... :)
I then took the US equivalent, which Donal Blaney did last week.
My Political Views
I am a right moderate social libertarian
Right: 5.56, Libertarian: 1.75
Political Spectrum Quiz
My foreign policy and cultural views are a little more centrist...
My Foreign Policy Views
Score: 0.86
Political Spectrum Quiz
My Culture War Stance
Score: 0.56
Political Spectrum Quiz
45 comments:
“My Culture War Stance
Score: 0.56”
Well that’s odd. But it explains why you’re a Tory. I’d have thought the European centre of gravity in any US Culture War test would be way into the supposed “Cultural liberal” zone.
So in European terms that would make you a considerable Cultural Conservative.
Almost exactly the same as you Iain. About half a box to the left of you, probably because you're loaded and I'm not!
Labour should be in the section at about 4:00 P.M.to the BNP, as we have never seen such an authorithian government since the NAZI's we have never had such a government that has so much common with the likes of Amin, and the former eastern european communist states.
And the Conservatives should be nearer the line south.
Well I think these quizzes are silly and more to the point - irrelevant to the UK - but I got (USA Culture War Quiz):
You are a left social libertarian.
Left: 7.41, Libertarian: 4.42
I don't agree that the Conservatives under Cameron are where they are marked in the first graph.
I'm pretty much the same as you, interstingly.
I also don't think the right/left axis is correct, only the libertarian/ authoritarian axis seems accurate.
The central point (at least in the past and still today in many ways) is that the left identified with workers' interests in a capitalist system and the right with those of capital owners.
It's a fairly common smear that faschist parties are "on the left" - extremists trying to change the articles about the Nazis on Wikipedia often claim they were a "socialist" party because they had that word in their official title.
Whilst it's true that extreme right wing parties are sometimes in a sense "statist", eg, Hitler had strong state organs delivering an enlarged military, a police state, labour camps, death camps, etc - it's also the case that in history most "extreme-right" parties tended to follow a laissez-faire attitude to wealth accumulation, taxes on the rich, the power of corporations, etc, provided that they toed the government's ideological line and provided what the state needed.
I think what this points to is that there is a similarity between extreme-left and extreme-right parties in that they both tend to operate a powerful state. However, just because you are statist, does not make you left-wing.
The best way to look at the "soft-left" and "soft-right" is that they have milder versions of the views espoused by their extremes. Thus soft-lefties tend to be mildly in favour of wealth taxes and mildly in favour of state economic interventions. Soft-righties tend to be mildly xenophobic (look at all that Tory hysteria over Europe!) and mildly warmongering.
However, I do agree that to some extent the old left/right definitions are wrong or innacurate. Despite this, it does tend to be the case that the Right identify with the politics of individual, family, religion, charity and dislike of foreigners and the left with social welfare, government-driven systemic social change and the mass.
I recommend "Hitler and Stalin" by Ian Kershaw as a masterly study of how all extremist governments tend toward authoritarianism and cruel mistreatment of their own populations, regardless of the starting point of their ideology.
Another popular argument of the right and neo-cons (as in Fukuyama) is that "history is over" and the old left/right paradigm no longer applies. This is nonsense - the old paradigm is becoming more clear than ever, as the current crisis in capitalism shows, at least in the way people believe their own interests to fit into that.
Finally, as a Liberal leaning to the left, I would say Iain's placement of the Liberal Democrats towards the right looks true if you think of the old SDP and so on, but is not so true of much of the rank and file, who tend to incline leftwards on many social issues and who do believe in the role of the state. The issue is how that role should be exercized in practise.
"the leftists who threw their toys out of the pram" ?
Since the Nazis spent a lot of time carting socialists and trade unionists off to concentration camps perhaps it is understandable that those on the left would feel at least indignation at your comment.
I would have thought a gay person would have wanted to make common cause with people opposed to the BNP rather than engage in self-indulgent theorising.
The political compass is laughable. Your thesis must be correct because someone drew a diagram? Hmmmm.
I prefer this compass from the Flying Rodent:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LWATvIMoPtw/SYc2xtiiwKI/AAAAAAAABh8/NxusND5ZhUQ/s1600-h/Political+Compass+2.JPG
Yes, PhilC you are right and it's no co-incidence that stuff like this is popping up on the web in the middle of the current chaos, when many people may feel like perhaps the greed of the oligarchs, bankers and hedge fund hustlers has played a significant role in what's happening. Clearly there will be pressure to try to confuse what is basically very clear - that we need markets to be under tighter regulation and a small group of people should not be allowed to have such huge financial power over everyone else.
but these things are pointless.
Left and right are a nonsense today.
In economic terms, many of the classical left were radically free market (far more so than today's Tories or neoliberals) and that's still the case for a minority on the left.
The right on the other hand were the advocates of protectionism and managing the economy.
What's really changed is the left became conservative and sought to use force to pursue their interests and the right have not changed much, but have taken to using limited freedom to allow their interests to be pursued, but still restricting others.
I think more valid axes would be - socially authoritarian/libertarain, economically authoritarian/libertarian (on this axis 99% of politicians are centre to authoritarian), regressive/progressive (forward to a better society, or back to a better society of the past) and static/dynamic (wanting stasis or change and how much change).
Even those are problematic, but seem to cover a broader spectrum without falling into left/right
Hmm. I'd consider myself to be a Lefty Tory - however I've come out as a Lefty Libertarian.
What a relief - does that mean that I'm not a Nasty Wet Tory after all :O ?
The position of the Greens as libertarian seems a little off-beam. They seem to be more authoritarian than most but in a rather different way. That is, perhaps, an additional argument for revising these axes. Left and right after all date back to the French revolution. What would a pair of axes be that would be a little more relevant to the 21st Century?
Looking at the Political Compass chart it appears that all "real" politicians, eliminating the nutters, are in the top right box. What does this say?
I am on the libertarian left right there with Ghandi, and I didn't try and fool the test.
And there was me convinced I was a Daily Mail reader.
weasp
Economic Left/Right: 2.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.31
I wonder what on earth you would have to belive to be really right wing
I clicked on to make the very same point as Forlornehope. It's the priggish, finger-wagging nature of the Greens that puts me and, I suspect, many people off them. The ueber-prig Jonathon Porritt (the unacceptable face of viridianism) is now hectoring us that having more than 2 children is selfish, because it flies in the face of sustainability. Whatever next? Will there be a Progeny Exchange Market, under which non-breeders will sell their 'right' to children to those who want to raise a boat-crew.
I should declare my position, I suppose. I/we have 2 kids, and want no more. There again, since they are both boys, I suppose that too will offend the prigs, as the 'responsible' option would be to have a balanced brood of one of each.
***I would have thought a gay person would have wanted to make common cause with people opposed to the BNP rather than engage in self-indulgent theorising.***
See, Iain. You must make more of an effort to hold opinions that others believe gayers should hold.
Silly bloody tests anyway.
Do you believe that the poor should be sterilised at birth and killed once they're too old to work? NO = you're a Leftie; YES = you're Right wing.
Have you been left traumatised by the fact that your parents were married? NO = you're Right wing; YES = you're a Leftie.
How does Labour appear as less authoritarian than the Conservative party. This Labour government are about as authoritarian a government as we have ever had in this country since (and maybe including) WWII
Albertm - "progeny exchange" - what a brilliant idea! Don't say it too loud around the blogs though, otherwise today's "mainstream" Right parties (Labour and Conservative Parties for those who don't know to whom I refer) will eagerly pick up on it.
However, at first glance, I would have assumed a Prodigy Market would be better - I want to know where one goes to purchase Prodigies.
"Since the Nazis spent a lot of time carting socialists and trade unionists off to concentration camps perhaps it is understandable that those on the left would feel at least indignation at your comment." --- not sure that this was anything to do with left right, just self preservation, they carted all sorts off to camps.
When the North Vietnamese Army invaded South Vietnam in 1975 and took over the country, they promptly took all the Vietcong leaders away and shot them. The fact that a left wing army was killing fellow left wingers did not seem to bother them.
Word verification - 'mitculan' TDs definition, 'a self cleaning type of Formica.
According to the graph, the Conservatives are more authoritarian than Labour???
iCowboy said... “According to the graph, the Conservatives are more authoritarian than [New] Labour???”
I wouldn’t have thought there was much to choose between them. Or have I missed something?
I don't rate this psych things - they seem a bit bland. Most principles are nuanced and contrast with others to create balnaces all over the place.
There is definately something odd about how the political compass defines far left parties like the Greens or the 1983 Labour Party as being more libertarian than the Conservatives.
I am 1/4 up from the bottom, slightly to the right of centre.
No surprise I am in the LPUK.
Ross said... “There is definately [sic] something odd about how the political compass defines far left parties [sic] like the Greens [sic] or the 1983 Labour Party [sic] as being more libertarian than the Conservatives.” [sic]
Can’t see why. The Tories in power have always been anti-libertarian and authoritarian.
Foreign Policy:
You scored: 5.32
Culture:
You scored: 2.94
What does that make me then ?
Economic Left/Right: -0.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.82
Dunno if i'm any the wiser.
I'm a fraction more libertarian than Mr. Dale but a couple of boxes further to the left but still on the right. Probably got more to do with some of the declarative statements that I don't think have simple black and white answers.
No, Zeddy@10.34am, it's not about forcing Iain to share my opinions it's about us both having the right to live as you wish (as a trade unionist, as a gay person, as an immigrant). The BNP would (violently) deny that and therefore we should have common cause.
Yes, Zeddy@1.398am, it's silly. What happens if I want my parents sterilised? (Does that make me Green?)
Its understandable the left don't like to think the BNP could be one of their gang. A bad skinhead/racist vibe still being given off by them.
However, the BNP is gaining support from disaffected Labour voters. That's really what Mr Dale was saying.
Where do decentralisers like me fit into this spectrum?
I find it hard to agree with definitions of left and right because they are subjective and conditional.
For example I'm generally opposed to nationalisation, but I understand there are circumstances (like over NR) where it is necessary to act against a prevailing preconceived dogma.
Ideological tests like this are idealistic nonsense - I'd rather stick to straightforward matters of practicality.
With the current administration's slow movement towards an Orwellian future I'm a bit confused about this diagram. I shall take the test.
Iain, you are far too nice to win any victory in debate with Peter Hitchens. He will never concede that his argument is wrong. You may catch him out on semantics or some other small point if you're lucky but the main point is that he is never ever essentially in the wrong. Never. Once you accept this life becomes easier.
I can't help wondering what results Old Holborn will get? Apparently I'm a leftie, which is news to me!
Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.97
I'm a little to the right of Nelson Mandela.
Sorry that should have read that I'm slightly to the right of Gandhi: who pioneered "resistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience" Yep, that's pretty much where I am alright.
I don't agree with whereb they place the conservatives. Maybe old style one nation paternalists like Heseltine are there. These days they should drop way further doen the vertical scale. There are quite a few libertarians. Rolling back the state is anti-authoritarian. The blue reference point is simply wrong.
The Lib Dem position on Europe should shove them way up the vertical axis. They're in the wrong place too.
I pretended to be Gordon Brown, just for a laugh, and guess what, I'm on the authoritarian left.
(Of course, I was lying)
I think that your Progeny Exchange is a wonderful idea. It does make a little more sense than Carbon Exchange in that it will have real effect.
I think you should rush to patent this intellectual property before Mandelson does.
Regrettably I stand at -1 on that scale which is at least accurate. On the other test I come out a slightly authoritarian left winger. That leaves me forced to commit hara-kiri to expunge the shame. Mind you the last one I did saw me closest to Obama and furthest from Ron Paul so perhaps I have never been a Conservative at all.
UK test-
Economic Left/Right: -0.12
Social Lib/Auth: -1.54
US test-
You are a center-right moderate social libertarian.
Econ Right: 1.21, Libertarian: 2.18
Foreign Policy: +3.51 on the neocon side
Cultural: 0.78 conservative
The US test put me closer to where I would expect to be. Can't think of any friends who would describe be as even very slightly left-wing when it comes the economy!
(comes _to_ the economy)
There should be a circle round the middle called pragmatist (or jaffa cake addict).
A party of the true right,wants individual freedom and as little state intervention as posible.
A party of the left wants state control of as much as possible, and to this end wants to limit personal choice and freedom of the individual.
I you apply this to any party it will tell you where they belong.
So dictaters who give no freedom and control everything are from the left not the right as the BBC and labour party would make out.
Johnny, your theory of what constitutes left/right is actually a description of what constitutes anarchic/authoritarian. If you look at Iain's graph, that's why it has a separate axis for that.
Left/right in the marxist sense is about where you stand in the class battle - are you for the workers or for the capitalists?
In the more general French Revolutionary sense it is about being for social progress as defined by Rousseau, etc or for Catholic monarchism.
Authoritarianism and state intervention are very widely practised by the Right, unless you are accusing Nixon and Mcarthy of being left wingers, or Pinochet? Depends what you mean by state intervention. Is it not state intervention when the government uses the police force to suppress a strike, as Thatcher did to the miners?
Usually I find when Right people talk in this way, they really mean that they don't believe that people should pay taxes, particularly themselves.
Zero-tax countries include places like Dubai, where you can be arrested for kissing on the beach and where water costs US$ 8 a cup.
Johnny Norfolk said... “A party of the true right wants individual freedom and as little state intervention as posible.”
So not the Tories then.
Sounds more like pre-GWB US Republikans.
According to that thing, the Grim Reaper is a slightly left-wing libertarian. I dispute that...
DL
Who gives a f**k about the Maxist definition of left anfd right. Eco=nomics has nothing to do with it, you twat. Political taxonomy should refer to political criteria, not economics.
Left is big government (no matter that you also let favoured minorities have extra rights) and right is small government (no matter that it legislates on moral principles that the majority share).
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