Sunday, February 22, 2009

How Well Will the BNP Do In June?


I took part in a seven minute discussion on the South East edition of the Politics Show this lunchtime. The other participants were the Labour leader of Swanley Town Council, Ian Rashbrook and the LibDem PPC for the area Alan Bullion. Even though I probably spoke for slightly longer than the others, I continue to wonder what value these type of discussions have. It's a complicated subject but the temptation, when you know you have probably 90 seconds or two minutes to make your point, is to resort to a soundbite or to prepare your answer and give it no matter what question you are asked.

The final question Paul Sieghart asked was about the BNP's prospects in the Euro elections on June 4th. I think it is a very real possibility that they will win a seat. Because of the electoral system, if they manage to become the party which receives the largest share of so-called 'dustbin' votes, it's entirely possible they will get their first MEP, although I am not sure which region is most likely to suffer the ignominy. I gather 8-13% of the vote will guarantee a representative. A lot will depend on what happens to the Green vote and the UKIP vote. It may be that quite a few LibDems and Labour voters 'lend' their votes to the Greens in order to keep the BNP out. To be honest I haven't a clue how tactical voting works under the PR system for Euro elections. No doubt someone can enlighten me in the comments.

To watch the Politics Show interview, click HERE and scroll in 12 minutes.

77 comments:

Praguetory said...

If you haven't a clue how tactical voting might work for the Euros(and I don't either) then I doubt it will be electorally significant.

KP said...

The area most likley is unfortunatley the North West, hence the fact that Nick Griffin is the standing there

The fact that on June 5th Nick Griffin is likely to be one of my MEP's is very epressing.

David Anthony said...

"...but the temptation, when you know you have probably 90 seconds or two minutes to make your point, is to resort to a soundbite or to prepare your answer and give it no matter what question you are asked."

Sorry, how long have you been involved with politics now?

Tone made me do it - he's a bad influence said...

Tactical just voting DOESN'T work under PR.

The ONLY thing that will prevent the BNP doing well in June will be for "call me Dave" to stand down or for him to move away from the Media-Political complex idea that all immigration is good and 1 million+/year immigration the very height of civilisation.

I believe that the BNP will probably win a MEP in most regions. I cannot think of a good reason why I shouldn't vote for them. Just the look of shock on the faces of the BBC election night special team makes it seem very worthwhile.

Oldrightie said...

"The griffin is a legendary creature with the body of a lion and the head and often wings of an eagle. As the lion was traditionally considered the king of the beasts and the eagle the king of the birds, the griffin was thought to be an especially powerful and majestic creature. Griffins are normally known for guarding treasure. In antiquity it was a symbol of divine power and a guardian of the divine."

Do you think he changed his name?

Bert Rustle said...

Was the new BNP councillor on the show? If not, why not?

According to Martin Wingfield The Battle for Thringstone - can you help?

... it's a Tory leaflet, produced in conjunction with Unite Against Fascism which is run by the Socialist Workers Party. Now that is a marriage made in hell - the very worse that British politics has to offer uniting against the BNP.

But this all goes to show how desperate the Old Gang parties are as well as just how similiar they are.

In Bexley it was the Lib-Dems that lined up with the UAF, in Newcastle it was Labour, and now in Thringstone it's the Tories. All tarred with the same brush and working with the lunatics of the Socialist Workers Party. ...


Can anyone corroborate or repudiate this?

Simon said...

I saw the piece on the politics show and was surprised that no one from the BNP was invited to take part. It seems always to be the case, is there some sort of tacit agreement that they are never invited onto these shows? Judging by what I read around the blogs and newspaper comment sections plus the surprising number of people I meet who say they are going to vote for the BNP I reckon they could do very well in the EU elections. Who else do you vote for if you want out of the EU?

All the main parties are hellbent on handing over more power to the EU regardless of the views of the electorate. David Cameron could kill the Lisbon Treaty / Constitution stone dead by saying he will hold a referendum regardless of the state of the ratification process as it has not been democratic. He chooses not to do that which is a pretty clear indication of his intentions. I hope the BNP sweep the board. I'll certainly vote for them.

I see the Irish Government is planning to move the vote forward as the polls are indicating they could get a yes vote. Yet another indication of the manipulative nature of the whole corrupt EU project which LibLabCon want to enslave us to.

Tone made me do it - he's a bad influence said...

Sunday comments never seem to be left of centre.

Isn't it strange that Weekend comments here lack the "usual suspects" contributing their left wing views.

Presumably because their authors work for local authorities/government departments/Quangos and presumably think it is part of their jobs to monitor blogs and give us the benefit of their diversity training to counter any discussion of the BNP.

Mike Wood said...

BNP supporters clearly out in force.

8% won't quite be enough to guarantee a seat in the South East but was enough at the last elections.

Tactical voting is very difficult in the European Elections as the best way to vote tactically depends on the exact share of the vote that all of the parties receive and obviously you don't have that information when you vote.

For example, if you knew that the party that you wanted to block in the South East was going to receive exactly 8% of the vote then you would need to make sure that all of the other parties received just over a multiple of 8% - so if the Conservatives got 40.1%, Labour 16.1%, Lib Dems 16.1%and the UKIP or the Greens 8.1% then the BNP's 8% wouldn't be enough. Obviously by changing those numbers you can change the share of the vote that a party needs to just over 9%

It is hard to know where the BNP's best chance of a seat is. Although they are normally stronger in the North West, London and the West Midlands than in the South East, they would probably need 10-11% of the vote to win a seat in the North West or London but only 8-9% in the South East.

A lot depends on how the "raspberry vote" splits between UKIP, the BNP and other smaller parties.

Shirking From Home said...

All the news organisations are interested in is filling minutes here and there.

Hand-in-hand with blatant spin and partiality goes their careless attitude to discussions. They don't care if they skim an issue or facilitate proper debate. It is frustrating when they end a 'debate' on a soundbite fanfare looking very pleased with themselves, as if the item had contributed something.

If 'Westminster' pulled their heads out of their arse holes they would have realised long before now that many people are feeling disenfranchised.

This isn't something that has happened overnight. It has been going on for years. It is something which both the media and government in their collective wisdom have decided is best swept under the carpet and quickly forgotten about.

I wonder if the government has asked the Met Office for a long range weather forecast. An increasingly faltering economy combined with a long hot summer might make for interesting times.

richardwillisuk said...

Iain,

A good performance that addressed the main issues. You are absolutely right to attack Brown's BJFBW comments and call for pavement politics.

http://richardwillisuk.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/bnp-win-sevenoaks-by-election

Twig said...

Were the BNP represented on the program?

Iain Dale said...

no

JuliaM said...

"BNP supporters clearly out in force."

Really...? Where?

Oh, wait. Don't you want to shout 'Nazi!' and 'Racist!' too? They're always winning arguments...

JuliaM said...

"Isn't it strange that Weekend comments here lack the "usual suspects" contributing their left wing views."

Perhaps they're all at church...?;)

strapworld said...

, people are sick of politicians and the way they are seen to be lining their own pockets.

Today on the SKYNEWS website I saw the following. This is just what the BNP wants! and politicians of ALL parties -including UKIP!- are as guilty as each other!

A leaked report has revealed how Euro MPs are becoming millionaires at the expense of taxpayers.

There has been concern about MEPs' expenses for a while



The internal audit of MEPs' expenses discloses "corruption, dodgy dealing and poor financial controls" in the European Parliament.

The TaxPayers' Alliance (TPA) has called for a police investigation into the frauds.

The 92-page report, prepared by EU internal audit official Robert Galvin, shows that MEPs have systematically abused staff allowances and expenses.

Some MEPs claimed money for assistants that were neither accredited or registered with the parliament.

Every member could "easily" save more than £1m from their expenses and pension benefits over a five-year term at the European Parliament, according to the TPA.



What MEPs Can Claim Over 5 Years*
Subsistence allowance: 117,000 Euros (£104,814)

Staff allowance: 489,840 Euros (£438,819)

Office expenses: 243,120 Euros (£217,797)

Travel expenses: 60,000 Euros (£53,750)

Pension: £350,000

*Does not include salary of £63,291 rising to £73,584 in June




The Galvin Report was based on a representative sample of payments made to more than 160 MEPs during 2004.

The investigation discovered a culture of huge "bonuses" being paid to staff members or handling firms at the end of the financial year, ranging from three times to 19 and a half times the employees' monthly salaries.

There was also widespread failure to comply with tax, company and social security laws. Nearly 80% of transactions that should have been subject to VAT displayed no evidence of either VAT payment or exemption.

Matthew Elliott, TPA chief executive, said: "Having acquired the report, the TaxPayers' Alliance felt it was right to publish it so taxpayers across the EU could see the widespread evidence of corruption, dodgy dealing and poor financial controls in the European Parliament.

"It should never have been kept secret, and there must now be a proper investigation by the police."

The existence of the report was kept secret until a Liberal Democrat MEP, Chris Davies, disclosed some of its findings last year.

Mr Davies said the "overwhelming majority" of MEPs used their staff budget honestly to pay their staff.

But, he added: "Honesty doesn't pay in this system and the temptations are great. No-one knows who is cheating and who is not, and it is a disgrace that the Parliament has voted to keep auditors' reports secret."

Twig said...

Was there a reason for lack of BNP representation on the program?

Iain Dale said...

No idea. You'd have to ask the production team.

Dave H said...

It wasn't totally without BNP representation, there was an edited pre-recorded piece.

“Here is what the winning BNP candidate had to say about his victory:”

(Cllr Paul Golding)

“Young people in this ward, Swanley St Mary’s, have said they find it almost impossible to get a council house. I [have] spoke[n] to parents as well who are angered by this. They say all the council houses are all given to foreigners and asylum seekers. This is our country at the end of the day: we should be put first. It’s as simple as that.”

Simon said...

Come to think of it I remember hearing somewhere that the three main parties have made an agreement not to share a platform with the BNP. Pathetic when you think of it, and anti-democratic, which probably fits in nicely with the views of their EU masters.

Savonarola said...

What a democracy we live in.

I would be more likely to listen to the program if the winning candidate was allowed to speak.

We seem to have to learn about the BNP from the Con/Lab/Lib combine which is basically "BNP are racist scum/Stop the BNP"

If so let the "Rascist Scum" at least be allowed to defend themselves against this calumny. Perhaps the patronising established parties may learn a thing or two.

Twig said...

Should the BNP have been represented on the program? (in your opinion)

Tone made me do it - he's a bad influence said...

"Was there a reason for lack of BNP representation on the program?"

My understanding is there is some kind of NUJ ban on working with the BNP. Hence the Workers' Revolutionary party has appeared on Question Time, but the BNP never has.



Locally, it makes perfect sense to vote for the BNP. It puts you on the map and central government money is then poured into your local area to try and calm the situation. Nationally the same is true - the only way of telling the political-media complex that you don't think immigration is a good idea is to vote BNP in June.



Its an incredibly brave thing to do to stand up in public and run for the BNP. To start with, it ruins your career prospects. As the economy drops away, the numbers of high-caliber people with nothing to lose by standing for the BNP will grow.

Iain Dale said...

The BNP candidate was interviewed briefly in the film.

Should he have been involved in the discussion? A moot point. I asked the question of the producers at the outset, and they said it would distract from the main discussion, which was how the 3 main parties should address the issue of the BNP.

A Confederacy of Dunces? said...

I think Simon is correct.

On the Northeast version of the Politics show, a few weeks ago, a local Labour MP confirmed he had refused to be on the same platform as the BNP rep.

Since Labour are largely responsible for the growth of BNP voters in the North East and the North West due to their perceived desertion of the working classes and their now being seen as the party for Big Business, then this refusal has further alienated poorer working and middle class voters.

For good or bad(I think bad) this has sent people over to the BNP because they feel the BNP are more in touch with them.

I think also the new corruption amongst MEPs will fuel that anti maistream politics feelings that is going around.

Though I do not want to see it, I feel there is a strong chance of an MEP being elected for the BNP and it is entirely the fault of New Labour's lining their pocket and ignoring their baseline Voters.

neil craig said...

If they get 6-13% of the vote they ought to get an MEP. It is called democracy & it doesn't just mean seats for the parties already in charge. Pity we don't have it in British elections.

Simon I don't share your "surprised that no one from the BNP was invited to take part". A non-party inmpartial broadcaster ought to report what all sides believe not just what the establishment does, but that is not what happens in the UK. As I have said before the big parties have all been quite deliberately involved in genocide in support of undeniable (ex-)Nazis & the media have lied & censored to help them. None of them have any claim to moral superiority over the BNP.

Simon said...

Iain,
If there had been a BNP representative on the panel would you have still taken part?

Wrinkled Weasel said...

I am with Iain 99% on the real reasons why the BNP won.

This is indeed a response to a groundswell, similar to the way the Greens got a franchise, something I have been saying on here for some time.

Where Iain ducked, well, no, not "ducked", but did not have time to address, was Cameron's dire response to what is the very real problem of immigration, jobs and other issues that Dave is running a mile from.

The Labour chap, true to form, tried to pin the blame on "right to buy policies" Cheap, Conehead.


There is however, a sublime irony in the council house debate; we are asking, do we fill the council houses with our own spongers and scumbags or foreign spongers and scumbags?

rob's uncle said...

There is no scope for tactical voting. The result will depend the relative success of the parties at getting their core supporters out.

I agree that pavement politics is the proper way to counter the appeal of the BNP: 'find out what residents want; get if for them; let them know you've done it'. In this case it's clear that the acute lack of family-size social housing is a major grievance. It is a scandal.

If BNP success in the euro-election results in greater funding for this, then it is a good thing.

Iain Dale said...

Simon, that's an impossible question to answer. I don't have a blanket policy of not appearing with the BNP, as I think that would be fatuous. But it would depend on the subject, length of debate etc.

strapworld said...

Wrinkled Weasel.. there are many and varied reasons why people need Council Housing. I was Chairman of a West Country Poverty Action Group and your attitude was rife amongst almost all the councillors I met - from ALL parties-

You cannot have poverty in the South West - was the usual comment from a head stuck in the sand!

We found that through many reasons - marriage or partnership breakdown/ violence shown towards them etc etc people, invariably but not always women, in their late twenties and thirties - found themselves homeless.

Many had children with them and it was extremely difficult to find suitable accomodation for them, but, to my disgust, the reaction of Councillors was-as above- and a total unwillingness to do something for people.

Yes properties have been given to scroungers, yes properties have been given to refugees and immigrants. But let us not get into the trap of calling everyone - as you Winkled Weasel are-
"There is however, a sublime irony in the council house debate; we are asking, do we fill the council houses with our own spongers and scumbags or foreign spongers and scumbags?"

It is language and attitudes such as this which drive people into the arms of the BNP.

Twig said...

Maybe a strong showing for the BNP is what the three main parties need to shake them out of their stupor.

You have to wonder why they're scared of debating with the BNP.

nostalgic said...

I listened to the BBC Radio Four News at 5pm on Saturday (a half hour programme)More than half the show was devoted to this issue. Nothing else going on in the world?

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Strapworld. I was being sardonic, as you know.

And quite rightly, you point out that it is precisely that kind of thinking which culls the BNP vote.

However, social housing policy in this country has reached a nadir. It is perceived as such and does not have the same republican cachet as its European counterparts, where it is seen as an integral part of the whole of society. You don't have to be a Daily Mail reader to realise that it is simply not fair to jump the queue because you are a schoolgirl mother or a failed asylum seeker. Everything in life has to be earned. The sooner we get away from the idea that "it's my rights, innit", the better.

ingsocy

Bert Rustle said...

Twig February 22, 2009 5:41 PM wrote ... You have to wonder why they're scared of debating with the BNP. ...

Weyman Bennett of Unite Against Fascism appeared on the same internet radio program as Simon Darby of the British National Party, with the presenter Tommy Walsh acting as intermediary, on PlayradioUK 2.

Though UAF do not stand candidates as they are not a political party they are active in the democratic process as a pressure group, according to Weyman Bennett and Simon Darby.

I would hazard a guess that an Establishment Party member will do likewise in the next few months. The program can be heard at Global News Talk with Tommy Boyd 16.02.09

dmc said...

Well I for one will be voting bnp in euro elections.The whole system needs a good shake up.Non elected eurocrats,our lot with snouts in troughs as well and the conservatives utterly useless.
Ok its a protest vote and wont affect this country much but how else can we get the message across we are well p*ssed off with them all.No other party is giving a monkeys about eu membership or immigration.

dmc said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JPT said...

Iain, can you, the Tories and Labour not see what is happening?
Can you not see the mood of the people just by reading the comments to this post alone?
The BNP are not some oddball fringe group, they are a very well organised political party.
Labour and Conservative both fiddle while Rome burns. The BNP do not.

Mr Mr said...

"I am not sure which region is most likely to suffer the ignomony."

Why ignomony sic (It is ignominy)? No other political party is now standing up for Britain. Labour, Tories and the liberals are now all for a United States of Europe.

Although not a supporter of the BNP I get more than a tad worried when the establishment tries to make a legal political party illegal and bans its employees from supporting it.

Twig said...

Bert Rustle said...
Weyman Bennett of Unite Against Fascism appeared on the same internet radio program as Simon Darby of the British National Party, with the presenter Tommy Walsh acting as intermediary, on PlayradioUK 2.
February 22, 2009 6:01 PM

Wow - that was an eye opener.

Here is a quote from the comments:
"I used to vote Tory, but was horrified to hear this Weyman Bennett boast that his organisation (which, incidentally suppresses free speech in Britain and is allied to the Communist Party) say that UAF is SUPPORTED BY DAVID CAMERON!

Explains a lot.

A Confederacy of Dunces? said...

I think the level of being out of touch is being underestimated by the self appointed political elite.

People are very angry at not being listened to and are turning to people like the BNP.

Stop patronising them or such disregard will come back to 'bite' all of us.

my blog recounts the most recent attack on us
http://www.a-i-darlo.com

norman said...

Even as a 'brown-coloured' British citizen, I would like the BNP to win a few seats in Euro elections and more importantly some 12 seats in the general election, to draw attention to what the pathetic immigration policy of this Labour government has done to our country, and to remind Cameron if he wins that general election, to give a very long holiday for work permits. Watching the dreadful Ms Smith talking about the weak government proposal about 'tightening the immigration from outside the EU' and utter silence from her Tory counterpart today, nothing less than significant votes to BNP would stir the government of the day into action. I am very unhappy about Cameron not putting forward strict immigration policies which would be a certain vote winner.

trevorsden said...

Tone - I am not sure that Cameron ever said "call me Dave" - any more that Blair ever literally said "Call me Tony".

However it is I believe well established that Brown said "call me Gordon" when he became PM.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1996703.ece

The Grim Reaper said...

Norman said "Watching the dreadful Ms Smith talking about the weak government proposal about 'tightening the immigration from outside the EU' and utter silence from her Tory counterpart today, nothing less than significant votes to BNP would stir the government of the day into action."

Fear not, Norman. None of this will actually happen, you understand. Our Jackboot was simply saying all this because she needed a distraction from everyone asking about her expenses. This was just the fish she was holding out for the media as a morsel - most of them, disgracefully, swallowed it unquestioningly.

Spartan said...

BNP ignored by the 3 main parties

UK citizens ignored by 3 main parties

Doesn't need rocket science to see why BNP are attracting imcreasing support

Rohan said...

How well will the bnp do? The usual piss poor showing. Lets not forget they were telling the world that they would gain seats in the last euro elections. And what happened? They managed 4.9% barely improving on 3.9% from 1999. Laughable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2004/vote_2004/default.stm

Their support is too geographically dispersed, as both previous elections and the laugh-a-minute membership list revealed. They might increase their share of the vote this time, but because of the geographical factors its unlikely they will gain a seat.

Jabba the Cat said...

“Young people in this ward, Swanley St Mary’s, have said they find it almost impossible to get a council house. I [have] spoke[n] to parents as well who are angered by this. They say all the council houses are all given to foreigners and asylum seekers. This is our country at the end of the day: we should be put first. It’s as simple as that.”

This is the main reason why people vote BNP.

Normal average people are fed up with the multicultural politically correct bullshit foisted upon everyone over the last few decades with accompanying open door immigration policies, and, the directly related consequences of indigenous population displacement on the housing and job ladders.

Until mainstream politicians face up to, and start addressing these fundamental and growing problems with more than weasel words, there will be an accelerated movement towards extreme position political parties.

Shamik said...

A very depressing result indeed!

Why didn't the Lib Dems put up a candidate? Why didn't the wonderfully named Mr Bullion stand?!

I've just consulted the leaked BNP membership list, and there are only two members in Swanley. Iain is right in suggesting it wasn't just the hardened racist scum who voted for them; a few "normal" people must have done too.

The best strategy in dealing with the BNP, as ever, is to take on their lies, expose them for who they are and defeat them.

lancasteruaf.blogspot.com

www.hopenothate.org.uk

This nonsense about Council homes being taken up by foreigners and asylum seekers... I mean, how many foreigners, much less asylum seekers, are there in Kent - let alone Swanley - anyway?

It's by no means certain they'll win a seat at the European elections, but I remember saying that at the time of the Mayoral elections last year.

I fear the worst...

chris-close said...

But this is the problem,Rohan, the EU elections are on a PR basis so increasing BNP chances of success...

dmc said...

Shamik,that's an interesting name,are you a muslim?
How are you planning to use the bnp list?do remember some on there are false and others have left or moved.

Fergus Pickering said...

There are plenty of asylum seekers in Kent, you fool. Where do you suppose they come in?

Calais said...

And its still only February.

Could be a Scorching June,

And a singed ruling class with a bit of luck.

Maybe they'll act this time.

Shamik said...

"There are plenty of asylum seekers in Kent, you fool."

Really? Care to give a number? And how many asylum seekers have taken up council housing in the ward in question?

dmc: What relevance is my religion? Am I forbidden from taking part in this debate? Care to tell us your real name?

Here's a little light reading for you:-

BNP terrorist links

BNP big-wig claims rape is "no big deal"

What a bunch of lovely people...

chris-close said...

I must admit, I am a bit taken aback by the reference to Shamik's religion - what has that got to do with this debate?

I always post in my own name and whilst understanding people's desire for anonymity, this should not be respected if there is a bit of prejudice going on here?

"Shamik,that's an interesting name,are you a muslim?
How are you planning to use the bnp list?do remember some on there are false and others have left or moved." DMC

"Fergus Pickering said...
There are plenty of asylum seekers in Kent, you fool. Where do you suppose they come in?"

I am not a muslim but I still find both of these posts potentially offensive and add nothing to the debate.

chris-close said...

Oh yes and I used the BNP list by publishing it on my blog simply responding to what they or their mates did with 'Redwatch'.

Maybe you were on the list DMC?

my blog by the way is

http:www.a-i-darlo.com

so call me names now????

acadman said...

Dave Cameron's remark about taking on the BNP at grassroots level is typical of the political elite totally out of touch with their own parties, let alone the country.

OK, in places people like Labour's admirable John Cruddas in Dagenham have indeed done this. But isn't the leadership of political parties aware of the true state of their parties?

Labours membership is, the last time I looked a couple of years ago, standing at 179,000. The Tories at 250,000. In many areas both Labour and Tories simply have no meaningful grassroots representation. Both are declining. Moreover, most of these are elderly members and the average age for members is very high.

Furthermore, I cant believe that in terms of morale many Tory or Labour members really want to go out and fight for a political elite that patronises their beliefs and uses them as nothing more than envelope-stuffers. I left the Tory party for that reason: I know Labour activists who have done the same.

Lastly, the constant stream of corruption allegations from MP's must be having a very demoralising effect on activists who see the elite getting rich on the backs of their voluntary efforts. They then have to go out and defend their parties on the doorstep to a very angry electorate. Does that sound like your idea of fun?

In comparison BNP activists are young and highly motivated, and probably not above a bit of Sinn Fein style intimidation of canvassing activists from other parties (though I have no evidence of this).

The truth is that the mainstream political parties are being hollowed out from below. Its only a matter of time before people really notice that their 'parties' just consist of an nearly interchangeable elite sealed in the discredited and corrupt Westminster bubble and financed by the powerful. Then, you may well see radical - and perhaps very sinister - change in the politics of this country.

chris-close said...

acadman's comments are presient if misguided in terms of the BNP motivation.

I could never vote for them because they are underpinned by racism and I would never be able to get past that.

Apart from that, his comments if it is a he, are spot on and accurate.

Shamik said...

Democracy BNP style!

killemallletgodsortemout said...

These BNP chaps are certainly causing some debate, aren't they?

Even Melanie Phillips has had a go at them today. Odious is what she called them.

For a group that has "no chance" in the next election, there are some big hitters trying to kick them into touch - which just won't work. People have had enough of the sleaze, spin and control freakery of the reds and blues. I think more people than ever will turn out and vote for them, especially if the summer of rage actually happens, and the plod turn on their own people.

chris-close said...

Which of course is exactly where we are going in terms of civil unrest......it's exactly like the early 80s with the Miners and the Poll Tax.

The BNP will play on it.

Chris Close
http://www.a-i-darlo.com
Taking Liberties

Thatsnews said...

Are we seeing a "Love Thy Neighbour" moment with regards to the Labour Party?

Those of us old enough to remember the 1970s TV series will recall that Eddie Booth the white Labour Party member was a racist bigot, whilst his black neighbour, Bill Reynolds, was a Conservative voter?

I have to say that I have known a number of racists during my life. Many of them were Labour Party members and officials.

There's a nasty, schizophrenic attitude in many Labour supporters. They like to accuse others of being racists on the flimsiest of grounds, yet seem capable of turning a blind eye to genuine racists within their own ranks.

Is it possible that the true home of a good proportion of Labour Party members/voters (as seen in the latest swing to the BNP from Labour) is the BNP?

acadman said...

Chris Close - I hope my previous post didn't suggest I was a supporter of the BNP!!

Thatsnews - The obsession with anti-racism - like all political correctness - comes from the middle class wing of the Labour party, which now controls most positions of power within it.

Historically a fair few of white working class Labour voters have been actively racist - in the 1970s the London dockers marched through London I believe in support of Enoch Powell.

Ken Livingstone said that John Major was the best councillor in charge of housing Lambeth ever had because he was not a racist unlike his Labour predecessors in the post.

It is not at all surprising because it is the white working class have most to lose from immigration. The white middle class have most to gain, in the form of cheap blue-collar labour. If you were so minded, you could even say that the middle classes use high immigration as a method of class warfare, as they have always resented paying high rates for the work of skilled artisans from those they consider their social inferiors.

chris-close said...

acadaman

not at all. I think we are posting on the same wavelength

dmc said...

Chris Close,No,I am not on the bnp list and never will be.My worry is what use you and Shamik are putting this list to.
Not all extremists are bnp.

dmc said...

Shamik,
"here's a little light reading"pot calling kettle black there I think.Militant Islam also makes terrifying reading.

Chris Close,why the hysterics,where have I called anyone names.I asked a simple question,no more.

Shamik said...

dmc, you racist, uneducated prick, what makes you think I'm "militant Islam"? Bugger off back into the gutter you pathetic little man.

BNP scum like you aren't worth debating with; vermin who hide behind the cloak of anonymity to launch outrageous personal attacks truly are the lowest of the low.

chris-close said...

DMC - don't really understand that comment.

I am not putting the BNP list to any use except publishing it as has been done by Wikipedia and indeed by BNP members themselves.

I cannot raise any anger about someone who does not have the ability to use their own name when posting and I do feel you are a racist.

I am not black and I do not know if Shamik is but what I do know is that you were not merely asking a question.

The BNP are shameful racists and supporting them whether misguidedly or not, colludes with racism.

chris-close said...

DMC - what hysterics?

Iain Dale said...

I'm going to close this thread unless things quieten down. May I remind everyone that I don't tolerate swearing. I'm minded to delete some of the comments above.

chris-close said...

I haven't sworn nor would I do so.

I appreciate you don't tolerate swearing but you do tolerate racism?

Because DMC's post come dangerously close to it and that is what Shamik was complaining about.

Iain Dale said...

Shamik, I understand why you have reacted strongly and I won't delete your post on this occasion. I did think about deleting DMC's post and on reflection, perhaps I should have.

chris-close said...

Indeed, Iain.

Reflection is a fine thing.

Shamik said...

Apologies for losing my rag!

I suppose we should be grateful to dmc for revealing the true BNP mindset; they may scrub up well on tv and on the doorstep, but deep down they're the same nasty lot they always were.

I mean, what fantastic logic from "dmc", whoever he is: interesting name + brown face = Muslim + Militant Islamist!

Calais said...

Hi Ian

Interesting this DMC / chris-close / Shamik interchange - particularly your response.

Looks like a chink* in your armour has been found.

* oops, sorry if I'm rubbing salt etc

chris-close said...

I don't understand the last comment from Calais - is it some sort of 'pun'?

My interactions have been simply based on reacting to the quality and nature of the posts about something which is very serious and quite worrying.

Regards
Chris Close
http://www.a-i-darlo.com

Anonymous said...

Shamik, or whatever your name is - do you live on planet earth? There is a reason why people vote for the BNP, and they are not all "ignorant racists" as you might believe.

The BNP will continue to gain in strength for as long as the big three parties continue to toe the line from their EU task masters. Allowing the Uk to take in huge numbers of Third World immigrants and "asylum seekers" (who ignore most safe havens in Europe for the more generous government assistance of the UK) is dragging the country into a hell of over-crowding, crime and growing ethnic tensions. White working class people feel betrayed, ignored and completely disenfranchised by labour. I doubt if the Tories or the Lib-Dems will do any better.

There is a very good reason why the BNP website is the most visited political website in the country - and it's not just idle curiosity either. If the BNP win one or more seats in the European parliament, the current "big three" parties will only have themselves to blame.

Frankly, I'm glad I emigrated. The state that the UK is now in, is absolutely appalling. I feel sorry for my relatives who still live there. On a different note 10% of Calgary City Police is now made up of Britsh police officers, and more are coming over. When even our coppers are leaving Blighty to work in Canada and Australia, then its time to start worrying.

Bill Gibbons
Calgary, Alberta.

Anonymous said...

As long as Britan remain part of the EU and immigrants continure over here in mass numbers by an unwelcoming nation the BNP will always be here. All labour or the conservatives, or LIb Dems need to do is calm down on the open door policy and get us out of the EU then there would be no need for a BNP. I don't want to be surrounded by Muslims, I can't imagine anyone else does either