Wendy Alexander's decision to back an Independence referendum for Scotland isn't just one of the biggest political U Turns in history, it's the last desperate act of a desperate leader of a desperate party. 'Bring it on' she says, which, when translated, means 'Let's hold it now rather than in 2010 because I can't stand up to Alex Salmond in a two year long debate'.
Presumably if all the other parties combined against the SNP Wendy could force her wish. Let's hope the Scottish Tories and LibDems have more sense than to fall into Wendy's little flytrap.
I suppose that Alex Salmond could in theory also do a U Turn and decide to hold a referendum later in the year on the basis that he and his administration is never likely to be more popular than they are now.
A difficult call, but I expect him to stick to his guns.
29 comments:
Alex Salmond was, just like Boris, considered a clown by the Guardianistas!
He has proved to be very adept, extremely personable and a superb communicator. Wendy Alexander is damaged goods and the Labour Party in Scotland is facing a uphill struggle to survive.
I believe Salmond will stick to his guns, aided by the Tories.(the Lib Dems will support Labour!) and the referendum will take place in 2010!
Maybe Brown will reconsider and hold a referendum on the Lisbon Constitution???
"I am listening"..............
Watching Wendy in the Scots Parly you become aware of a few things:- i) Wendy isn't very good; ii) SHE knows she isn't very good, and at least has the decency to blush. In-fact Wendy's U-Turn will make things WORSE for Labour. After all, they have been saying for days/months/years that an independence referendum is a 'waste of time'. Therefore, if the referendum is NOT a waste of time, what else has Labour been talking pony about (hint- everything else)?! Perhaps Wendy should employ Comical Ali as her next advisor...
Surely ANY questions about independence from the Union should involve EVERY citizen of the Union? Don't we English have any rights? I'm now a citizen of the Atlantic Region of the EU and I wasn't even asked. Where are my democratic rights, you know, the same ones Labour ministers want for Zimbabwe!!
Toynbee says:
"Look at Labour successes - the minimum wage, child poverty, children's centres, aid for Africa, free museums, NHS waiting lists, new health centres and schools well-stocked and well-staffed after those 18 miserable drought years of Thatcherism - there is much to be proud of.
You really couldn't make it up!
Wee Wendy was simply awful on C4 news last night. Is that the best they've got in Scotland? (scrub that question, they've apparently sent their best to rule England and they're all totally useless)
She's following instructions from London. She looked her usual uncomfortable self on last night's C4 news and didn't want to answer the question 'When did you change your mind.' There's no way the Tories in Scotland will support her, maybe not even the Liberals because her continuing painful discomfort is good news for all the other parties.
The Tories should not only support a referendum, but also support a Yes vote.
An independent Scotland would be good for Scotland, England and the Scottish Conservatives - who faced with a Labour party bloated after years of unchallenged rule have lost their way in the face of the SNP onslaught. Also, post-Independence, the SNP will have outlived their purpose - so you will have two centre-left parties scrabbling for the centre-left vote. The Tories could be a real alternative.
The Union has outlived its purpose - especially as both Scotland and England would continue as members of the European Union.
At the very least, we should have a federal arrangement for the UK.
Wendy Alexander is as desperate as the next Labour politician to get some public support right now. I'm not in the least bit surprised by this announcement, clearly aimed at deflecting attention from Labour's recent horror show.
It is desperation, as I suspect she thinks it is a win-win initially, i.e. if Alex blinks, she asserts getting the initiative and everyone is distracted north and south; if Alex does not blink, then she can prattle on about it and use it to goad.
Wendy is Labour. They have no credibility, no professionalism but just an unbending rapacious desire to remain in power.
The advantage of this is that in other circumstances, 'Eck Salmond may get the chance to chose his own timing on the matter i.e when he can manufacture a crises to push the vote his way.
Unlike the 1998 Referendum, voting rights must not be confined to just those on the Scottish Electoral Register. It is a vote of such constitutional important that those of us who are Scots by birth but live in England or overseas must be allowed to vote. It would be ridiculous that an Indian or a Pole who has only lived in Scotland for say three to five years can vote but those of us who were born and educated there yet now live in England are denied on on our country's future
9:26,
They really are achievements. Yes, Labour have done bad things and they haven't done enough good things (I don't actually vote for them), but it's not like this government is the spawn of Satan. Look at things in perspective.
'both Scotland and England would continue as members of the European Union.'
Are we sure about that AY? The United Kingdom seems set to be hurled into the pit by Gordon Brown and New Labour. Scotland has an entirely different government and mind set and has not yet decided for the relationship with the European Union that the member for Kirckaldy and Cowdenbeath has decided upon for the rest of us.
This is one of the driving forces in the support for the Scottish prime minister of Scotland (as oppose to the Scottish prime minister at Westminster).
As an English Nationalist I am pleased that W. Alexander has risen to Salmond's bait. The present constitutional arrangement offends me greatly - along also with the EU constitution, are you listening Brown? - so let us put it to the vote.
If the Scots don't like been 'under the heel of the English' then I, in my turn, don't like being under the heel of the EU.
The problem is the Unionists are reacting to events instead of controlling them.
We need a wider debate which encompasses England on the future of the UK.
Why is it only Scotland that gets the choices ?
PS Wee Wendy has weakened the Union since she now has no moral case to withstand the elected SNP government's plans for a referendum in 2010. Just shows you Labour will sacrifice anything for their own grubby little careers.
Just as a matter of interest - has she been heard uttering the word "England"?
Iain Dale says "I suppose that Alex Salmond could in theory also do a U Turn and decide to hold a referendum later in the year on the basis that he and his administration is never likely to be more popular than they are now."
I think, Iain, that you have not allowed for the fact that the next scheduled election in Scotland is for the European Parliament in 2009
The SNP normally poll better for this election than for any other election in Scotland. They will garner many votes by pointing out the advantages that independent membership of the EU would give Scotland:
e.g *A seat at the "top table" alongside the other 27 member states.
*say 17 MEPs rather than the current 7
I believe that SNP support has by no means peaked as yet.
SNP have the referendum vote in their manifesto for 2010, no way will Alex Salmond change his plans just because labour are in another panic. He had this scenario in mind all along , knowing that Brown was useless and that he coudl only hold on by his fingernails till 2010, Salmond pencilled that in as the opportune moment to have the vote, with a conservative government installed , labour in disarray, it provides the ideal conditions for a Yes vote.
Looking more and more like the union is finished and Alex Salmond is a master tactician. Best part is that Brown , Browne , Cairns , Darling , Alexanders , etc will be history at worst.
Does the stupid bint really think that the SNP will take "No" for an answer? I guarantee they'll say "oops sorry we asked the question in the wrong way" and try again and again and again. Into a spiral of neverendums.
Better to say "until you (the SNP) get 50% of the votes or seats there is no need for a referundum as you can't persuade enough people to vote for you and independence."
Wendy Alexander believes that the No campaign would be successful. Of course it would be, which is why no such referendum will be held while there is breath in Alex Salmond's body.
But the real point is that the United Kingdom is my country, which no one has the right to take away from me
Assuming that there can be such a referendum at all (and there is a very strong case that the United Kingdom belongs to the whole British People, past, present and future), then it must be held throughout the United Kingdom acting as an indivisible whole.
There is, in point of fact, no state in the United Kingdom except the United Kingdom, and no nation except the British nation.
That anyone might want something else to be the case does not make it so.
David Lindsay , Are you as stupid as your post suggests. For a start the UK is not a country , It consists of 2 countries, a principality and NI.
Secondly as you are only ONE of over 5 million people in Scotland, you will get your democratic right to place one vote. Scotland as a country has a right to decide whether it wishes to stay in the Union or not.
David Lindsay- sound familiar?
"In Vilnius during the day, the Soviet authorities again organized an opposition protest demonstration against the Lithuanian Government of President Vytautas Landsbergis. Several thousand people, mostly members of the republic's pro-Moscow Russian and Polish minorities, took part in the rally adjacent to the Vilnius Parliament building, cheering as speakers praised Mr. Gorbachev for challenging the republic's independence move as illegal and destabilizng for the Soviet nation."
"But the real point is that the Soviet Union is my country, which no one has the right to take away from me
There is no nation except the Soviet nation."
The UK also is a prisoner of nations. Every nation has the right to self determination. You, nor any other person can deny that right the nation of Scotland.
What's truly extraordinary about Wendy's decision is that it's only a couple of years since some Scottish Labour figures were seriously trying to claim that an independence referendum held by the Scottish Parliament (as opposed to one held by Westminster) would not only be wrong but in fact illegal!
Just heard Wendy Alexander on the PM programme, and I think she is toast politically..
We all know how unhappy Gordon was when Harriet Harperson incurred his wrath..
I suspect Olympic standard grovelling is already beginning with Dougie trying to smooth things with Gordon.
I don't think any of the interpretations are correct.
I would guess the wee Wendy and her Brother were talking strategy at the weekend. I think they decided to position themselves after the electoral defeat. I think they thought they would get into a heads I win tails you lose situation.
Their logic was if she calls for an election and she wins then she is the hero, if she loses they Dougie gets to run for Prime Minister of Scotland. If the looses the vote Brown will be toast - even if he wins the election and becomes the next Prime Minister.
The obvious background to this decision is that Wee Wendy and her Brother, who would not normally say boo to a goose - made the decision without consulting or telling Gordon. In other words even the meekest of Labour Ministers no longer Fear Gordon and are settig themselves up.
It's also interesting to note that it is FEAR that HELD (past tense) the Labour Party together - and not loyalty. I think this a very bad sign for Labour.
Wendy Alexander: The Interview
All she has done with this move is give far more legitimacy to independence as an option for Scots.
They may vote against it this time but in future it will be seen as a legitimate option.
She has just moved the bar and made it a far easier objective to meet for the SNP as Scottish voters will now think it is an acceptable option since one of the main UK parties has offered to put up for a vote.
She is a fool who has just added to Gordon Brown's woes by making what looks like a panic driven decision.
Hilarious! The Alexander duo should never have been allowed to progress beyond student union politics!
Alex Salmond is no fool. He will embrace Wendy's new-found enthusiasm with apparent sincerity. His only question will be....why the rush.....you waited 9 months before going public with this....you can't rush the constitutional question.
Of course, she will look an even bigger fool when the Scotland Office say "gonna nae dae that" without further legislation from Westminster. Which is exactly what Salmond wants. Indeed, he will be filled with glee as the "No" lobby tears itself apart over whose train set it is.
Wendy has just made Labour the midwife of Scottish independence.
Ironic when you consider that the first ever Labour party set up in the UK was the Scottish Labour party. Founded by the Home Rulers of Keir Hardie and R B Cunninghame-Graham who went on to found the SNP.
strapworld said... "Alex Salmond was just like Boris"
A regular guest on "Have I Got News for You".
I bet the LibDems are now painfully regretting that they knifed that other regular guest called Charlie Kennedy who delivered them more votes and seats than they ever got in previous elections.
How dum do people think they feel now?
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