Yes, a mistake was made with the abolition of the 10p tax band, but the worst of the 10p row was how it obscured the fact that Brown had lowered income tax from 22 to 20 per cent in his last budget. Can that tax-cutting Brown please re-emerge?Probably because there are few examples in living memory (with the possible exception of Australia and New Zealand). But then comes the MacShane piece de resistance...My friends on the Left will insist that the correct Labour response is to raise taxes and break away from what they call neo-liberal economic policies. But when the state Hoovers up nearly two thirds of a trillion pounds from national income, describing such economics as neo-liberal is to mock language.
When trade unions and the Fabians invented what became the 20th-century Labour Party, no working man or woman paid any tax. It was easy to call for higher taxes because only the Tory-voting bourgeoisie paid them. Now working people are faced with massive deductions from their pay. There is some compensation for those on low incomes with young children, but a third of the voters in the London mayoral elections were single or childless people. The tired references to "hard-working families" upset all the voters who live by themselves, do not have children at home and are denied tax credits.
Can the Left be tax-cutters? Why not?
And how can tax cuts be funded? By cutting spending.Hallelujah! A sentence which few Conservatives are yet prepared to utter (present company excepted). Let's just repeat that again, for the benefit of my good friend Danny Finkelstein.
There, wasn't too painful, was it? And just in case you think it was, over to Denis to explain how it can be done...
Take Labour-run Bolton Council. It decided on a zero council tax rise this year and was rewarded, rightly so, at the ballot box. When Mrs Thatcher imposed rate capping and told town halls to curb spending, a new generation of Labour council leaders rolled up their sleeves and worked within cost-cutting rules. Unlike their tax-greedy comrades of the Left in London councils, the municipal socialists of Leeds and Manchester, of Birmingham and Salford created a new style of local government by making less money go farther and finding innovative partnerships with the private sector to begin the renaissance of the great cities of England.I do not know of a single minister who privately does not despair at the waste of money on pointless projects, publications, or legions of press officers that add no value. The taxpayer has given more than £1 billion of aid to India, even though that great country has more billionaires and millionaires than Britain and runs its own well-financed development aid programme. I was baffled as Europe minister to be told I had to waste 90 minutes being quizzed by a consultant when the kindly but shrewd tea ladies in King Charles Street knew what needed to be done. How much was paid to the consultant? What happened to his report? No one in Whitehall knows or cares. When I suggested using easyJet to cut flying costs in Europe, fellow ministers and senior officials looked at me as if I had left a nasty mess on their doorstep.
Can I be the only MP outraged that town clerks - even dressed up with fancy titles such as chief executive - can now get paid £200,000?plus for running rubbish collection services in small towns?
No, Denis, you are not alone. Oh, and in the words of Jimmy Cricket, there's more...
So welcome Denis MacShane. Welcome to the ranks of the Thatcherites. Welcome to that small band who recognise that public spending can be cut. Welcome to that happy group of people who believe in the Laffer Curve.All trade union leaders have had to impose spending cuts as income levels of unions ebb and flow. What makes sense to them should make sense to a secretary of state. The notion that cost-cutting is something the Right does is nonsense. The great firms of Britain, such as Marks and Spencer, BP, Corus and BA, have had their fortunes turned round by ruthless pruning of costs, thus forcing managers to think differently as they are told to cut budgets if they want to save their jobs. And in doing so they not only keep their jobs but find the companies they run are walking tall again.
A government should be no different.
PS One thing I do have to argue about though is this sentence from Denis's article: "Can that tax-cutting Brown please re-emerge?" To re-emerge he would have to have been a taxcutter at some point in the past. Gordon Brown has never knowingly cut a tax without increasing another one to more than compensate.
53 comments:
when I read this piece this morning, I have to admit my conspiracy antennae starting buzzing. This is a ploy to get the Cameroons to let their guard down - wonder what the Finkmeister has to say about it.
Iain,
McShans is certainly not one of the more honest politicians. This is an article to try and suggest that Brown is really a tax cuter at heart and he was under orders from Blair before!!
A relaunch of a relaunch. Out of the ashes arises the Dodo!! A new Brown is born.
TAXCUTTER BROWN.
As Victor Meldrew would say "I don't believe it"!
That, if ever I heard it, was the moral case for cutting taxes!
Whatever next - cross the floor?
Oh no - we don;t believe in cutting taxes either do we - merely 'sharing the proceeds of growth"!
The comments section on the article are of course universally dismissive of this self serving and partial guff. And it is pointed out that the new 20p tax band was not a tax cut - the 10p abolition paid for it.
The Crewe and Nantwich result has clearly overloaded the hippocampal systems of many Labour MPs.
Put another way they have taken leave of their senses. Dear old Gordon must be wondering what will be left for him to lead.
Looks like McShane hasn't fooled anyone. Just read the comments on the Telegraph site. It would be comical if it wasn't tragic. Like Strapworld said it's the relaunch of the relaunch. Nothing more than a smoke screen.
Iain,
Did you notice the Brown-style dog whistling:
"This can be targeted at the indigenous working class, furious at the incessant year-on-year council-tax increases above the rate of inflation."
When I worked for a major corporation we usually flew easyJet. When you are accountable for your budget why wouldn't you?
Bloody hell, one of them "Got it".
Let's not forget that McShane is as loyal as they come. I doubt that he has the backbone to write such an article without the backing of Brown himself.
To be clear, Brown has spoken... The problem is, after more than a decade of raising taxes, no f**cker will believe that Brown is now a tax cutter.
As it possible that the clunking fist could become anymore ham-fisted?
To try and suggest that it is Labour being "too Tory" with its waste and tax is intellectually weak and undermines his whole article.
He dismisses "Cameronomics" whilst simultaneously espousing the very "Reaganomics" which Cameron actually proposes. Once again, a Labour MP far too partisan to actually use all his brain, unfortunately.
At the same time John Cruddas is saying that Labour should go back to its roots and nationalise everything - well, that's his gist.
Denis is a slimey spinner par excellence and is just trying to claim that Labour thought of it first! Difficult to ask them what they are going to cut when their answer is spending! But if the Conservatives say they are going to cut taxes then all the savings will be on "slashing hospitals and schools and pensions". Clever, eh? Might just work if Brown was as good as Blair at fooling people some of the time. As it is....
"Can the Left be tax-cutters? Why not?"
The real question is, can the Tories be tax-cutters. Why not?
I think the idea is to say ...OK Cameron if you are signed up to Brownite spending then what say we, the Labour Party , are less convinced. What , he slyly suggests, is the point of voting Conservative , when they are so far on New Labour territory that they could conceivably be outflanked on the right on tax? The Liberals are trying the same tack with as little of what they call traction .
He has only reminded everyone just why Labour must be beaten whatever the cost , their record not their words . In the end it will be cheaper whatever Cameron has signed.
POLITICOS IN LEFTIST VIPER NEST OUTRAGE !!!
I do hope his article in your first edition of polticos is a enthrallingly dreadful Iain and what on earth will Folly Toynbee have to say ? I `m curious ,but if Denis Mac No Shame and the Queen of Hell purvey the usual old toffee ; I `m cancelling my subscription !
The only sound conclusion you can draw from Dennis MacShane is that Labour MPs are desperate to save their jobs.
After all who wants a P45 in a recession ?
The Laffer Curve is often misunderstood, but I'm glad you brought it up Iain. Usually it is quoted in terms of the rate at which tax revenues can be maximised. And that is true enough.
However to my mind the Laffer Curve is the tax rate where growth can be maximised without degrading overall tax revenues. This goes to the heart of the Conservative policy of 'sharing the proceeds of growth'. Nice warm sounding inclusive words, great for Hallmark Card type pabulum.
To my mind a tax cutting regime is one very powerful option for spurring the growth that, yes, we need to share. We simply can't wait for this growth, particularly in the present economic climate, just to happen. We need to make it happen. A tax cutting regime is the way forward.
This is the very point I tried to bring up with Eric Pickles recently when he was online here.
people should put their conspiracy antennae away - McShane is certainly not a loyal brownite having fallen contradicted some of Brown's positions on the Euro during his time as Europe minister. Iain is right to call him a tribal Labour loyalist, although he did buy into blairism early on and is more to the right of the party - similar to Charles Clarke in some ways.
and McShane is right that crypto-conservative local administrations like that of Manchester are much better at operating within fixed and limited budgets than central govt seems to be.
I think rather than some plot, this is just an experienced poltician picking up on the general public mood that public spending has reached a limit and that a period of consolidation and trimming is required rather than the ever increasing expansion of centralised services and, more importantly, understanding that any electoral representative worth the name has to speak to the public mood.
PS-I wonder if , now his political life is a busted flush,Mac No Shame is working on his TV career as an amusing and centre -ish commentator . Other media types have slithered adroitly rightwards notably Andrew Marr.
We can agree that there needs to be taxcuts in this country, but I wish rightwingers would stop banging on about the Laffer curve. You might have had Laffer effects when 80% rates abounded, but when the top rate is 40%, no serious economist believes you will achieve more revenue will stem from this. Even David Cameron understood this in his recent Speccy interview.
I will believe it when it happens. Labours number is up. They have taken so much from us it is hurting.
He is writing this trying to save Labours skin. To little to late
Loyal? McShane?
Paul Pinfield, McShane (not his original name) was dropped from the government after he called one of Brown's key policies - his five economic tests - "a bit of a giant red herring." When contacted asked about this by the Scotsman, he said:
"Jesus Christ, no. I mean, ‘red herring’ is not one of my favourite metaphors. If you think any Labour MP saying the Prime Minister’s most important policy is a red herring, then they would not survive long in the job."
Unfortunely for McShane, however, he had been recorded on a dictaphone stating that the 5 tests were, guess what?
"a bit of a giant red herring"
When the tape was played on both the Today Programme and BBC News 24 it blasted any claim McShane had to honesty to smithereens.
Unbelievably, McShane commented,
"I have no idea why I was removed as a minister"
Not very perceptive or honest are you, Mr McShane?
McShane wants tax cuts like we want Brown as PM.
If McShane said night was dark I'd check before accepting it.
"Can I be the only MP outraged that town clerks - even dressed up with fancy titles such as chief executive - can now get paid £200,000?plus for running rubbish collection services in small towns?"
In 2006/07, on top of his MP's salary, Denis MacShane claimed £147572 in "expenses and allowances.
So, McShane stuffed around £200,000 in his kitty courtesy of the taxpayer that year.
What hypocrisy.
How about repaying a large slab of your huge taxpayer funded haul, Mr McShane, then I'll believe you.
Yeah right... we believe you.
The way to test McShane's words is to imagine them appearing in the next Labour manifesto? Its just not going to fly is it? Never, ever!
The guy should be in the City. He's called the market about two years too late, but he's the first politician of any party to say it like it is, apart from John Redwood, of course who's never stopped saying it like it is.
His problem will be that to achieve the objective of cutting taxes substantially, and turning Britain back into a dynamic economy, we'll have to quit his beloved European Onion. Now that is something I really would eat my hat to hear him say.
Surely it was your flabber that was truly ghasted, and not vice versa?
(Or have you had the operation?)
Does anyone know the origin of this wonderful expression?
The latter day Lenin's like Mac Shane, and fellow travelers of the Fabian Society, are not flying their true colors, of a red flag, with a hammer and sickle stuck in the corner, or wearing their boots and buttoned up tunics, topped off with a Ushanka with a red star stuck in the middle. They hid the red star emblem and trappings of their true philosophy and fronted a red rose, - you fell for it.
So you voted them in three times, and you took your eyes off the ball for eleven years, while they dosed you on easy credit, and hyped house prices. They created an illiterate and innumerate underclass, drunk on cheap alcohol, brain dead on soap operas and cheap flights to Spain. They not merely permitted, but encouraged them to roam loose, to mug and knife the innocent, unchecked by one hundred and thirty five thousand, PC police sitting in their PC police stations, contributing to the raison d’être of the National Statistics Office, and the human rights act for criminals, instead of getting out on the street, on foot, fighting crime.
Simultaneously you completely failed to notice, that the elitist leadership of the dinosaur philosophy of international socialism, was destroying your country from within, steering you to bankruptcy, and selling you to the EU.
Came the dawn, no more credit, and daily knife crime, you have yourselves to blame. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and there is nothing like a swift kick in the wallet to get attention, is there? – Wake Up. Get rid of the likes of Mac Shane, and their Fabian Fellow Travelers.
I wait patiently for Mac Shane to explain the EUMED to the British people, not excluding one agreement or treaty made over the decades to enable Westminster to sell the UK off to You know to whom!
FABIAN SOCIETY
The first meeting of the Fabian Society was held at the home of Mr E. R., a member of the London Stock Exchange.
Two of the leading members were George Bernard Shaw and Sidney Webb.
Other early members were Eleanor Marx, theosophist and occultist Annie Besant, and author H. G. Wells.
The name of the society was suggested by the Spiritualist, Frank Podmore, who named it after the brilliant, elderly, third century Roman general,
censor and consul, Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus 303-203 BC who
was made a dictator in 221-217 BC and, with his small band of fighters and superior cunning, successfully defended Rome by defeating Hannibal's much bigger and mighty Carthaginian army through "gradualism"
and "terrorism" during the time of the second Punic War.
Initially he kept to the hills and cunningly hampered the enemy's progress by cutting off their food and supply lines with "delaying tactics" until Rome could assemble enough men to defend the city successfully.
During the war, his slow, "gradual," delaying tactics were greatly disapproved of by his soldiers and the civilians and earned him the name
of 'Cunctator' the 'Delayer.'
But later, after the triumph, his skill and wisdom was highly appreciated. He died in his 100th year in 203 BC.
Fabian Socialism is a "mixture" of Fascism, Nazism, Marxism and Communism all bundled together.
However, it is much more deadly because it is much more clever and subtle.
The only difference between Fabian Socialism and Communism is that Communists take your house by directly sending in the "secret police" to knock your front door down. Fabian Socialists do it much more subtly and cleverly by "gradually" taking your individual rights away,by gradually increasing
property taxes and rates, and finally, when you can't pay them, they send in their regional "council tax inspectors" to take your house away. But the end result is the same.
British PM Tony Blair and President George Bush Junior's globalist
"war on terror" is a classic Fabian Socialist strategy.
The philosophy of the Fabian Society was written in 1887 and included the statement:
"The Fabian Society acknowledges the principal tenet of Marxism
the abolition of private property etc." Of course this does not apply to the elect oligarchy at the top who end up owning the lot.
Sidney and Beatrice Webb published a book of 1143 pages in defense of
Bolshevism. It was entitled Soviet Communism: A New Civilization.
In April 1952 the Webb's were exposed before a US Senate Committee on the Judiciary when Soviet Colonel I. M. Bogolepov, a former Red Army officer,stated that the entire text had been prepared by himself in the Soviet Foreign Office.
Appropriately, the defiant coat of arms of the Fabian Society (commissioned by author/playwright co-founder George Bernard Shaw) today is a "wolf in sheep's clothing."
Until recently it also appeared on the Fabian glass window in the Beatrice Webb House at Dorking, Surrey.
Today the Fabian Society is among other things the intellectual wing of the British Labour Party.
Before Tony Blair became British Prime Minister in May 1997, he was
Chairman of the Fabian Society.
Since the 1997 British general election there have been around 200
Fabian MP's in the House of Commons, some of whom have formed almost entire Labour Cabinets including Gordon Brown, Robin Cook, Jack Straw, David Blunkett, Peter Hain, Patricia Hewitt, John Reid, Ruth Kelly, Alan Milburn and Clare Short.
Headed by Tony Blair, Fabians now dominate the entire British government.
They are resident in all political parties.
Posted by sally I think,but Atlas thought you all might like to read it. They now of course largely go under the name of Common Purpose.
Brown cut taxes - you aving a laugh?
Anyone who thinks this leopard has changed his spots should go into a dark room and lie down until the feeling passes. This is for the gullible but we've been "gulled" once to often. Believe nothing anybody associated with this government tells you. It's all spin and obfustication
Brown's high taxation and legion of stealth taxes to "bleed" the middle classes over the last decade tells us all we need to know about Labour.
This is another "con job" by an ultra-loyal apparatchik whose record on Europe is another reason why we should take anything he says or writes with a large pinch of scepticism. This article will have been "authorised" by No10 bet your life on it - so no-one should be fooled by McShane's apparent "damascene conversion"
I had to laugh. If this article is not a plant, I do not what is. What makes this worse is that you have fallen for it as has the BBC this morning. I thought the penny about how Brown works would have dropped by now.
Blimey, who knew he could make sense *and* be personable on TV?
"Today I shall be mostly jumping off sinking ships and trying to save myself before all the women and children pinch the life jackets."
Iain McSham
Auntie Flo' said...
What hypocrisy.
What hypocrisy indeed! If tax cutting is such a good idea, why has MacShane been supporting exactly the opposite policy for all of his political career?
MacShane has brought slimy thick-skinned arrogance into disrepute
McShambless tries to hide from reality: Labour does not have a "redistributive policy". Labour steals from wealth generators and wastes it on lumpen proleteriat clients whose support is assured by anti-democratic postal vote scams, which are tolerated by soporific Brits no longer willing to call a spade a spade for fear of PC goons and summary 'justice'.
Labour have faced humiliation after humiliation after humiliation.
11 years of spin, re launches, taxing and squandering and now Labour MPs are looking at something they never even considered:-
Electoral defeat.
Expect many other such spewings from Labour MPs who will say and do anything now in an attempt to be re-elected.
You can fool some of the people some of the time but most of us can see your cynical attempt to try and hang onto office.
I'm with the commentor-majority on this one Iain ...
If McShane told me that the Pope is a catholic I would have to call the Vatican for confirmation.
He has another agenda.
I don't care what Denis McShane says about anything. He's a nasty piece of work.
Why would I believe a word of what McShane says? Head honcho of the EUSSR, the coming replacement for the Mother Land.
The guy is an economic illiterate - he has never come out with one word with which I could agree. And arrogant! They haven't invested the word for him yet! If he was on fire, I wouldn't p*** on him!
It wasn't until a Panorama programme on the BBC stated that Brown had and was continuing to remove £5 BILLION per year from our pension pot that people accepted/believed it.Labour have nationalised the means of Seduction.In a fairly reported world the Right won all the arguments years ago.Cameron's plan to free the press to be partsan is necessary indeed because we have rabid Labour support and biased editing masquerading as impartiality at the moment.The media will always attract Lefties and the country's progress will be retarded as a result
Utter cyniciasm and opportunism from McShame, the fanatical Europhile.
Dear anonymous 'fabian' --- thanks for showing us that there ate loony tunes on the right as well as left.
So George Bush is a secret Fabian?
Well well.
Back in the real world, the policy McShane proposes would mean a 180 degree U turn by Brown by the Government by the entire labour party.
Harsh reality has indeed intruded into labours version of fantasy land. The money has been spent, the money has been wasted - the well is dry. What's left?
Laffer curve???? Don't make me laugh, it was written on the back of a napkin and has no basis in economic thinking. It's just a piece of right wing blinkered dogma.
Brown HAS cut INCOME taxes in ways that Tories could only dream of and dare not whisper.
We have a smaller % tax take and a smaller state than under Thatcher. And obviously the municipal socialists of Manchester Labour hve been merrily taking efficiencies wherever they are available ... and using the resultant strong budget positions to maintain inflation only rises and also to invest inthings people want and need.
Liverpool is differnt of course. Local tax cuts, yes. But palatable efficiencies? No! Lib Dems ...
(Personal Tax in Australia was awfully high Iain, whatever regimes they have but particularly under the Right.)
REPEAT: Brown HAS cut INCOME taxes in ways that Tories could only dream of and dare not whisper. AND he's massively increased investment in public services too. Quite a trick.
PS MPs expenses usually pay for three or four workers ... or in the case of Derek Conway three or four family members' pocket money.
Meanwhile a Town Clerk on £200,000 gets 1000s of workers on top.
If MacShane is saying this there must be a way it entails further betraying of Britain to the EU.
And there was me expecting Frank Field to be the first one to defect.
Never expected Denis McSane.
Windsor Tripehound said...
If tax cutting is such a good idea, why has MacShane been supporting exactly the opposite policy for all of his political career?
Excellent point, Tripehound.
No one is going to fall for this desperate spin from Denis 'I'm a Europhile taxaholic' McShane.
Chris Paul said...
Brown HAS cut INCOME taxes in ways that Tories could only dream of and dare not whisper. AND he's massively increased investment in public services too. Quite a trick.
Quite a trick alright, CP, so well hidden are these bogus tax cuts you claim that even the taxpayer can't see them.
From the current BBC Have Your Say:
"It can not be long before people start to revolt against further tax rises. People can not afford to drive, heat and even eat because every year we are faced with higher and higher taxes. The tipping point is getting close. We will not take much more of this."
newcastle
"I can not afford to heat my home, i can not afford to feed my family, i can not afford to pay my bills, i can not afford to go to work, I cannot afford to leave or live in this country. This is getting beyond the joke now. Do not push me any further MR BROWN."
"Revolution is coming I feel, the British people are among the most tolerant and docile in the world, but NuLabour have at last pushed them too far and are about to get bitten.BRING IT ON!!!"
"I voted Labour in 1997, since then, year after yaer I have had to give up one luxury after another. Now driving to work is becoming a luxury except I have no choice."
"The tipping point has come. Pockets are empty."
"How much British Road Tax ends up buying a new kitchen / TV / groceries / life insurance for the ruling nomenklatura MPs in their second or third homes?"
"we are now living in "rip off britain",hit the taxpayer and let the politicians have all the money to spend on their second homes!!!"
south yorkshire
So for the last 11 years McShame's been voting for all the tax rises and spending increases that Blair and Brown have foisted on us and now out of the blue he suddenly declares they should cut spending and taxes. Hmmmmm, nothing at all to do with the tax revolts and evaporating popularity of the New Labour government is it??
Labour MP Martin Salter has also said something similar, as a direct response to Crewe:
"We created all the quangoes and brought in all the management consultants, we can get rid of them"
http://martinsaltermp.wordpress.com/
Methinks Mr Cameron should get out of his promise to match Labour spending plans (probably on the grounds that the economy is worse than it was when he said it) before a desperate Labour (or even LudDims) outflank him
Ed I agree with you about the Laffer curve. Any responsible government should set business taxes to maximise growth not short term tax gathering. Irelend, under pressure of a slump, cut corporation tax & managed to achieve an average of 7% growth over the last 20 years. A couple of % on growth for a few years gives EVERYBODY more money than any credible piece of socialist redistribution could give anybody. There is no reason why we can't do the same as Ireland - we even have the slump now.
CHRIS PAUL, SAID
We have a smaller % tax take and a smaller state than under Thatcher.
You keep repeating this stupid remark .The state was a fraction of its current size and coping with long term structural realignment notably high unemployment. It is misleading and irrelevant as you well know.
The state share and taxes have risen during the last ten years and spending increased by 30% give or take which no-one disputes . Even more seriously the level of Government borrowing has got out of control
Australia , you use this example with equal disingenuousness , while the tax take in Australia is about the same as here it is in the context of a society where the cost of your accommodation is tiny. Their disposable income is much much greater and that is why so many middle earning Brits go there , to cash in on the differential in house prices often building their own for next to nothing
For middle earners so hated by Labour it is a paradise compared to the dump labour have made of our country .
Stop Lying , how about that for a bit of advice to New labour .If you expect middle income earners to vote for you , you are dreaming ask anyone who has gone to Australia
10 years ago Labour should have realised how helpful tax cuts would be; but no, there had to be a surge of spending on schools & hospitals (which didn't make much difference) to win the 2001 election. Now it's too late for them to save their electoral skins.
So what?
I'm pretty sure he's not a supply-sider. He wants to offset tax cuts with cuts in spending, which makes sense, whether or not it's actually a good thing. If he believed in the Laffer curve he would believe if you cut taxes you wouldn't need to cut spending as you would raise more money, due to increased incentives etc. I'm pretty sure he doesn't believe that.
Incidentally, 'belief' in the Laffer curve is probably the right way of putting it. No serious economist thinks it's good theory; there's no evidence it's a good way of working out the 'optimum' level of taxation, and it takes quite a leap of faith to think it does.
McSham must be judged by what he did and supported as a minister. Warm words mean nothing.
MacShane Honest?
I shall re-consider that when he explains to the British electorate his part in forming the EU/ARAB axis.
Explains the meaning of the EUMED and it's effect on this country, especially in 2010 with free trade agreements with around 11 more muslim nations.
Has EUROPE been handed over in exchange for oil during the 70s oil embargo it certainly appears that way!
Fabians don't cut but increase taxes for the almighty state.
Brown and Sarah both Fabians i trust neither she nore he!
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