political commentator * author * publisher * bookseller * radio presenter * blogger * Conservative candidate * former lobbyist * Jack Russell owner * West Ham United fanatic * Email iain AT iaindale DOT com
Friday, January 04, 2008
Dizzy on Obama and Prejudice
Dizzy has a truly excellent analysis of what an Obama victory could mean for race relations HERE. It demonstrates why his is the first blog I turn to each morning.
Dizzy has been so good for while now that it makes you feel like giving up. This particular piece however is below his best. The recent discussion of the state of web campaigning on both sides of the pond , for example , was fascinating and brilliantly done . His philosophical musings,on prejudice or whatever it might be ,however,feel clunky to me ,like playing Chopin in boxing gloves .....
Still all in all , I rate his blog as the No.1, a staggering achievment for someone who earns a living outide the media and politics. (Nice piece in the DT, Iain enjoyed “attack puppies” )
I've long thought that America is more ready for a black President than a female one. Of course much of the prejudice against Hillary would not apply to AN Other female Senator but in the majority of America, ie the bit that isn't like Will & Grace, women seem to accept a subservient role more readily than in the UK.
Consider the previous post and the fact that Obama is half-Kenyan. When the dirty tricks boys get going I think the US electorate will be hearing all this and more about Kenya and Kenyans. The US not racist, yeh right!
There are plenty of judges in America who are black women. They always seem to have terrific authority and I find it much easier to imagine a black woman for US President than I do for a European country. I hate to stereotype the States. There is plenty of racism there, yes. But it has also taken (and is still taking) a leading role in anti-racism. Ditto feminism. It's a complex, dynamic country that thrashes out issues like no other - a country that should never be under-estimated. The worst, most rampant prejudice is European anti-americanism.
One small detail, Obama is not Black, his is mixed race, his mother white, his father black. Predictably, his father abandoned him from birth, and he was brought up entirely by his white mother and white grandparents.
I hope Obama succeeds, but if he doesn't, I hope the result isn't close. I hope if he gets in, he tells the MSM that he has a range of interests and that he is not (unlike most black politicians, writers, sportsmen,etc) going to drone on about racism, however much he is encouraged to do so. He's taken some stick from the black community for his even-handedness, but if he can show that he's not a 'victim' he'll have done a fine job for race relations.
Wetback - Were Mr Obama half Chinese and there were government tanks in Tiannamen Square and protesters being shot, the media would connect the two. Don't be so silly. And if you really are a Mexican, you know that there are Mexican heritage mayors and Congresspeople in the US.
Oscar Miller, black people are part of the fabric of the United States; part of the national tapestry. They came (by force) not much later than the original white settlers, so they've been a part of N America for a very long time. But I agree with you about the rampant, utterly pointless, vicious anti-Americanism in Europe. They can't get the point that the Quai d'Orsay isn't as well known overseas as it used to be.
One more reason to develop the Anglosphere into a formal arrangement.
[11:12] -I have been saying this for months and this is one more sly little cheating that Obama does. He was never a muslim (uh-huh; despite his middle name being Hussein), he never attended a maddrassah in Indonesia because "madrassah" in Indonesia just means school (lie; sekolah means school) and he is black. He isn't. He is 50% white and 50% black.
I find him a very unsettling individual.
Bebopper, as mentioned above, he's not "black". He's 50% white. He's a poseur. All politicians are opportunists (except our own dear Iain, which is why Iain should stick to the role of observer and commenter), but Obama has expanded the defintion.
America is a very different place than it was 20 years ago and probably even 15 years ago. Racism is the most dread taboo in the land.
The quickest, surest way to destroy an American man's reputation is to throw the 'R'-word onto the floor.
I live in a 95% white community in the Western U.S. Ten years ago, one of the school officers at my high school told a racist joke at a comedy club. He resigned his position shortly thereafter.
We also elected a black young lady as a student-body officer. She was extremely well-liked.
I just want to show how things have changed drastically in the past forty years. Black people are adored and imitated by white suburbanites. I expect the white-black animosity to completely disappear as the older generations pass on...
to oscar millar, they arent 'plenty of american judges in the us that are black and female'.
Sorry you're wrong 'Anonymous' (don't you dare put your name about?)- There are a good number of female black American judges (many more than in Europe). There are also lots of female black American actors in work, some of whom play judges. Being a woman and being black hasn't been a barrier to Condaleeza Rice's success and she was credibly talked of as a potential Republican candidate. The reason she wouldn't do well now is not about her gender or her colour - but simply due to the unpopularity of the Bush administration.
Oscar Miller - The reason Condoleezza Rice would not do well if she ran is, she has a cold, forbidding personality (in public; I've never read anything on what she is like among her friends). I cannot see this lady glad-handing strangers.
It would be completely against her nature to stand for election and mix around. Her achievements, which are formidable, are all of a solitary nature. She is a concert-level classical pianist. She is a top competition-level ice skater. She is a noted academic. In all of these, she looked inward, not outward to a team, to achieve.
She's solitary; not people oriented. If she comes across as stand-offish, that's because she is. It's her nature.
She would be the last person to stand for elective office, especially a high profile elective office.
[3:46] Apologies. It sounded like a conclusion arrived at from a close study of sitcoms. I still think you're very wrong, but I respect that your opinion was based on personal observation.
Beaumont, eh? Spindletop. Maybe all that pollution drifting over from Port Arthur clouded your judgement? Just kidding. Beaumont, eh? Oil industry?
Verity - yes I accept your description of Condaleeza the ice queen. On these grounds she would not have what it takes to run for President. But it's not her race or gender that's holding her back. It's really easy to give PC explanations for unpopularity - with Ming it was his age (a theory blown out the water by the success of Vince). With Gordon it's his Scottishness. In fact the over-riding factor for failure to attract the electorate is much more straightforward - personality.
Oscar Miller - I said, in a straightforward manner, than solitary people like Condoleezza Rice are unlikely to be interested in standing for election to anything.
You came back with: On these grounds she would not have what it takes to run for President.
You present this as a failure, somehow. My point was, she has no interest in wooing the public. She's a solitary person by nature. It's not that she lacks "what it takes to run for president" because she doesn't want what it takes. She doesn't want to be president of the United States.
You then proceed, inexplicably, with: "In fact the over-riding factor for failure to attract the electorate is much more straightforward - personality."
Some people do not want to have a personality that attracts the electorate.
I find it surreal that you present the US Secretary of State's lack of interest in standing for president as a character defect on her part.
Dizzy got this COMPLETELY WRONG. I've lived in the states for a few years and yes it's true racism is Americans class system.
BUT the real story is that if a (semi) black wins then what will it say to the blacks currently in the US - where I guess 80% of blacks live in the bottom 30% of the country. For me it will say on one hand yes your son could become President - but it also says that you can no longer paint yourselves as not having opportunities. Any future failings are down to you and not down the rest of the population. I have no idea how Americas blacks will respond to that.
Verity - I find it "surreal" that you could read so much into my straightforward observation. All I'm saying is what may be rationalised as anti 'age' or 'race' or 'gender' is quite often simply dislike of a particular person's character - and nothing to do with their colour, or their relgion or whatever. I wasn't making any value judgements as to whether it was 'good' of 'bad' that Condie doesn't want and is not cut out to be President.
19 comments:
Dizzy has been so good for while now that it makes you feel like giving up. This particular piece however is below his best. The recent discussion of the state of web campaigning on both sides of the pond , for example , was fascinating and brilliantly done . His philosophical musings,on prejudice or whatever it might be ,however,feel clunky to me ,like playing Chopin in boxing gloves .....
Still all in all , I rate his blog as the No.1, a staggering achievment for someone who earns a living outide the media and politics.
(Nice piece in the DT, Iain enjoyed “attack puppies” )
I've long thought that America is more ready for a black President than a female one. Of course much of the prejudice against Hillary would not apply to AN Other female Senator but in the majority of America, ie the bit that isn't like Will & Grace, women seem to accept a subservient role more readily than in the UK.
Consider the previous post and the fact that Obama is half-Kenyan. When the dirty tricks boys get going I think the US electorate will be hearing all this and more about Kenya and Kenyans. The US not racist, yeh right!
There are plenty of judges in America who are black women. They always seem to have terrific authority and I find it much easier to imagine a black woman for US President than I do for a European country. I hate to stereotype the States. There is plenty of racism there, yes. But it has also taken (and is still taking) a leading role in anti-racism. Ditto feminism. It's a complex, dynamic country that thrashes out issues like no other - a country that should never be under-estimated. The worst, most rampant prejudice is European anti-americanism.
I can't STAND Dizzy. Reminds me of a terminally boring philosophy tutor!
Dizzy asks good questions - and he gets good replies. :)
Race, gender and sexuality are no longer 'an issue' with young voters.
I think the younger generation in the States will prove this with their votes. They will make their votes count - because they REALLY do want change.
One small detail, Obama is not Black, his is mixed race, his mother white, his father black. Predictably, his father abandoned him from birth, and he was brought up entirely by his white mother and white grandparents.
to oscar millar, they arent 'plenty of american judges in the us that are black and female'.
The are just plenty of people who play them on TV.
I hope Obama succeeds, but if he doesn't, I hope the result isn't close.
I hope if he gets in, he tells the MSM that he has a range of interests and that he is not (unlike most black politicians, writers, sportsmen,etc) going to drone on about racism, however much he is encouraged to do so.
He's taken some stick from the black community for his even-handedness, but if he can show that he's not a 'victim' he'll have done a fine job for race relations.
[9:49] In American, "women seem to accept a subservient role more readily than in the UK."
Wow! Are you wrong! How long did you live in the US to make this outré observation? Or have you been doing your research watching sitcoms?
Wetback - Were Mr Obama half Chinese and there were government tanks in Tiannamen Square and protesters being shot, the media would connect the two. Don't be so silly. And if you really are a Mexican, you know that there are Mexican heritage mayors and Congresspeople in the US.
Oscar Miller, black people are part of the fabric of the United States; part of the national tapestry. They came (by force) not much later than the original white settlers, so they've been a part of N America for a very long time. But I agree with you about the rampant, utterly pointless, vicious anti-Americanism in Europe. They can't get the point that the Quai d'Orsay isn't as well known overseas as it used to be.
One more reason to develop the Anglosphere into a formal arrangement.
[11:12] -I have been saying this for months and this is one more sly little cheating that Obama does. He was never a muslim (uh-huh; despite his middle name being Hussein), he never attended a maddrassah in Indonesia because "madrassah" in Indonesia just means school (lie; sekolah means school) and he is black. He isn't. He is 50% white and 50% black.
I find him a very unsettling individual.
Bebopper, as mentioned above, he's not "black". He's 50% white. He's a poseur. All politicians are opportunists (except our own dear Iain, which is why Iain should stick to the role of observer and commenter), but Obama has expanded the defintion.
America is a very different place than it was 20 years ago and probably even 15 years ago. Racism is the most dread taboo in the land.
The quickest, surest way to destroy an American man's reputation is to throw the 'R'-word onto the floor.
I live in a 95% white community in the Western U.S. Ten years ago, one of the school officers at my high school told a racist joke at a comedy club. He resigned his position shortly thereafter.
We also elected a black young lady as a student-body officer. She was extremely well-liked.
I just want to show how things have changed drastically in the past forty years. Black people are adored and imitated by white suburbanites. I expect the white-black animosity to completely disappear as the older generations pass on...
to oscar millar, they arent 'plenty of american judges in the us that are black and female'.
Sorry you're wrong 'Anonymous' (don't you dare put your name about?)- There are a good number of female black American judges (many more than in Europe). There are also lots of female black American actors in work, some of whom play judges. Being a woman and being black hasn't been a barrier to Condaleeza Rice's success and she was credibly talked of as a potential Republican candidate. The reason she wouldn't do well now is not about her gender or her colour - but simply due to the unpopularity of the Bush administration.
Verity "Wow! Are you wrong! How long did you live in the US to make this outré observation? Or have you been doing your research watching sitcoms?"
Of course I accept I'm generalising but in answer to your question - 8 yrs, in Beaumont TX
Oscar Miller - The reason Condoleezza Rice would not do well if she ran is, she has a cold, forbidding personality (in public; I've never read anything on what she is like among her friends). I cannot see this lady glad-handing strangers.
It would be completely against her nature to stand for election and mix around. Her achievements, which are formidable, are all of a solitary nature. She is a concert-level classical pianist. She is a top competition-level ice skater. She is a noted academic. In all of these, she looked inward, not outward to a team, to achieve.
She's solitary; not people oriented. If she comes across as stand-offish, that's because she is. It's her nature.
She would be the last person to stand for elective office, especially a high profile elective office.
[3:46] Apologies. It sounded like a conclusion arrived at from a close study of sitcoms. I still think you're very wrong, but I respect that your opinion was based on personal observation.
Beaumont, eh? Spindletop. Maybe all that pollution drifting over from Port Arthur clouded your judgement? Just kidding. Beaumont, eh? Oil industry?
Verity - yes I accept your description of Condaleeza the ice queen. On these grounds she would not have what it takes to run for President. But it's not her race or gender that's holding her back. It's really easy to give PC explanations for unpopularity - with Ming it was his age (a theory blown out the water by the success of Vince). With Gordon it's his Scottishness. In fact the over-riding factor for failure to attract the electorate is much more straightforward - personality.
Oscar Miller - I said, in a straightforward manner, than solitary people like Condoleezza Rice are unlikely to be interested in standing for election to anything.
You came back with: On these grounds she would not have what it takes to run for President.
You present this as a failure, somehow. My point was, she has no interest in wooing the public. She's a solitary person by nature. It's not that she lacks "what it takes to run for president" because she doesn't want what it takes. She doesn't want to be president of the United States.
You then proceed, inexplicably, with: "In fact the over-riding factor for failure to attract the electorate is much more straightforward - personality."
Some people do not want to have a personality that attracts the electorate.
I find it surreal that you present the US Secretary of State's lack of interest in standing for president as a character defect on her part.
Dizzy got this COMPLETELY WRONG. I've lived in the states for a few years and yes it's true racism is Americans class system.
BUT the real story is that if a (semi) black wins then what will it say to the blacks currently in the US - where I guess 80% of blacks live in the bottom 30% of the country. For me it will say on one hand yes your son could become President - but it also says that you can no longer paint yourselves as not having opportunities. Any future failings are down to you and not down the rest of the population. I have no idea how Americas blacks will respond to that.
Verity - I find it "surreal" that you could read so much into my straightforward observation. All I'm saying is what may be rationalised as anti 'age' or 'race' or 'gender' is quite often simply dislike of a particular person's character - and nothing to do with their colour, or their relgion or whatever. I wasn't making any value judgements as to whether it was 'good' of 'bad' that Condie doesn't want and is not cut out to be President.
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