Oh dear, it would appear Ming has made yet another error of judgment (the biggest one so far being a failure to just throw in the towel and hand over to someone competent better able to deal with life at the top). Yes in a move completely out of step with large swathes of Lib Dem MPs (particularly the young ones) Ming has decided to back… not having a referendum on the EU Treaty. Why? Because it is [drum roll] “sufficiently different”. Yes, the Treaty that is 96% the same as the failed ‘Constitution’ is sufficiently different – different name, different sales pitch, and so on.
Ah, Ming. Ming, Ming, Ming. Mingy, Mingy moo. I just don’t get it. Just as public opinion is shifting in one direction you sprint in the other direction like you’re on an Olympic track being chased by an angry (Scottish?) bear. Hmm.
But it’s not just public opinion. Within the party the shift is toward a referendum, not away. A recent poll on LibDemVoice for example highlighted that 54% of readers were in favour of the LibDems backing a referendum (and that’s before we get into exactly how many LibDem MPs are now in favour of a referendum).
That said, maybe Neil Bradbury on LibDem voice has the measure of the situation:
“Excellent decision Ming - how representative of public opinion (on the question actually asked) are referenda anyway? Most of my friends who are pro-referendum have never read the constitution and just hate foreigners because thats what the Mail tells them to do. Mings non populist approach is warming on me we want more prinicpled opinions not just people thinking because we are democrats we should have a vote on everything the right wing press want to vote on!”
I wonder.
29 comments:
When New Labour were consistently behind it was reported in the News Statesman that Labour insiders were not saying "If" on a Lib Dum deal not " When". As Brown slides into the brown stuff I wonder if its back on the table especially as Brown is softening on PR which would submerge the Scottish problem to some extent. The Scottish axis may be the key factor here what with the return of the Mac being an aim they share
Ming has been unlucky with neither if the real Patrties leaving him any room for once but this sort nuzzling the Brown crotch will not look good to the Dums. How long can he survive ?
Ah Mr Stand in, hooray, you choose to bring us some more glad tidings.
At last - the mighty Ming says something all reasonable folk (like Margaret Thatcher par exemple - she was always very clear about why referendums were not a good idea even though she gave away her lack of a classical education by calling them referenda) can agree with...
The LibDem 2005 manifesto says "We are therefore clear in our support for the constitution, which we believe is in Britain’s interest – but ratification must be subject to a referendum of the British people".
" hate foreigners because thats what the Mail tells them to do."
You don`t have to hate foreigners not to want to be ruled by them and this idea that noone who has not ploughed through the deliberately opaque constitution can have say is absurd.We follow the lead of those we trust and grasp the main thrust.
The EU proceeds by claiming each increment is a detail and too complex for normal people. THis is what pushes people into a position of having to say , I don`t know what you are saying excatly but whatever it is I disagree .
The arrogance of the LIB DUM UNINTELLIGENTSIA in assuming only they are capable of understanding the media is tediously familiar. Thye all did Media Studies at the University of Toynbee (Previously a Polly)
Newmania said:
Ga ga ga ga ga ga ga ga plus a half passable joke about Ms Toynbee
The Mail is for the most part a source of the misery and unpleasantness that Newmania and the ilk purvey constantly.
Cameron now needs to join up and diss any referendum. Thatch wouldn't why should he?
"that’s before we get into exactly how many LibDem MPs are now in favour of a referendum"
That would be one, out of sixty three.
I'm just ashamed of my party at the moment - both on principle and as a political tactic, the LibDem leadership should be calling for a referendum. Let's all watch the LibDem support trickle away.
If it's such a good idea to have things decided in Parliament, perhaps we better have a general election on the issue.
We now have a Prime Minister, a leader of the Conservative Party and a leader of the Liberal Democrat party all three of whom are stark raving BONKERS!
Of course all this suits the left at the moment as EU policy broadly reflects a left wing agenda. However, history informs us that a more federalistic Europe will not be immune to a "lurch" to the right if global conditions change in certain ways. I wonder if they will be so keen on the EU monolith under these conditions?
So when Brown comes up with a 'reason' why a referendum is now needed Ming will be all out in the cold. Another great move by him.
Mr Stand-In, You are forgetting that he would be rather foolish to slate the decision by El Gordo and the Boy Wonder Miliband to deny the public a vote. I mean, that would put the kibosh on his chances of being in a future 'coalition cabinet', and that would just never do, now would it ?
Chris Paul shows utter contempt for the majority of people in this country who wish to have a referendum. WHY? Because he knows they will vote against HIS view!
So his arrogance and deceit are on show.
Paul and his ilk annoy me. They are willing to sell this great country to the great EU idea which NOT ONE CITIZEN has voted for. (Except of course the MP's - who have shown complete disregard for the views of their electorate)
If Chris Paul and his ilk get their way. I worry for this country as I believe the recent problems of Northern Ireland will be visited on the Streets of England.
ChrisPaul? you do not know your countrymen. They do not all read the Daily Mail either!
The Mail is for the most part a source of the misery and unpleasantness that Newmania and the ilk purvey constantly.
This would be the Paper to whose grubby arse Brown has applied his full and sensual lips long time ,ever since he got rid of Snowball. British jobs for the British ...loves Thatcher ,scourge of immigrants ?The fact that Chris Paul still has a blow up Brown doll he cuddles and holds hands with gives you some idea what a rich meaty manure that all is .
If you think the Mail has turned on Eva Braun you should see what the Sun has to say . They no likey they thinkey him two face man no good.
How true
News just in! the Guardian's Backbencher says:
"Lib Dems have scored a landslide council byelection victory to snatch a safe Tory seat at Chelmsford Borough, Essex.
Their candidate, Malcolm Taylor, scored a swing of more than 28% since the May 3 poll to win at Broomfield and the Walthams in a rare Tuesday contest."
Can this be true? What will it mean for DC? And why Tuesday?
" On 2 September 1939, Neville Chamberlain spoke in a Commons debate and said he would not declare war on Germany immediately for having invaded Poland. This greatly angered Amery and was felt by many present to be out of touch with the temper of the British people. As Labour Party leader Clement Attlee was absent, Arthur Greenwood stood up in his place and announced that he was speaking for Labour. Amery called out to him across the floor, 'Speak for England Arthur!' -- which carried the undeniable implication that Chamberlain was not."
Once or twice in a generation there is an issue of such national importance that it overrides political affiliations and loyalties and this is such a moment for this country and whilst the above story has been told many times before but it's worth repeating as the underlying principle of speaking for the national interest is as true now as when Leo Amery said it. As both the leader of the Labour Party(who is reneging on his manifesto promise) and now the leader of the LibDems is also not willing to put national interest first one can only hope that there are sufficient MPs of ALL parties who are prepared to put country before party and support Cameron's motion for a referendum when it's put before the House. The government can, of course, ignore it but if they did this Prime Minister and his Government would be seen to have broken faith (and the fact recorded) with the will of the majority of the House and electorate and the falsehood of Brown's promise to "listen to the people" shown to be just the lie that it always was.
Mr Greer
"Angry Scottish bear" ?
The Hitch raises a quizzical eyebrow.
Was that an intentional nod towards Gordons hobbies?
When the House of Commons votes on whether or not to hold a referendum, into which division lobby will Patrick Mercer and John Bercow go?
Indeed, how will they and Matthew Taylor be voting on anything once Parliament reconvenes? And will Labour candidates be stood against them at the next General Election? If so, what could those candidates possibly have to say for themselves?
No referendum is necessary: the House of Commons doesn't have the right to turn over British sovereignty to any other parliamentary body.
If you know what the result of a referendum would be, and you know whether an individual would support that result, you can predict with a high degree of certainty whether that individual supports the holding a referendum.
Ming isn't actually stupid. He knows the British people would throw the Constitution (not Treaty) out, he supports it, therefore he opposes the referendum. Principled as ever.
Ralph - excellent point.
Hitch; it was certainly a nod toward a certain Scottish politician.
My father always told me that when God wants to punish someone he takes away their reason. One speculates at what the Lib Dems have done that makes God want to punish them so much.
Sadly, for the Country, it is all too evident what Labour have done.
'Those whom the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad' ? Adam , and the sentiment may not have been entirely an original one of your father`s
on an Olympic track being chased by an angry (Scottish?) bear. Hmm.
You mean "Exit pusued by a Bear" the only stage direction in Shaespeare( Winters tale ) and I think you may have a point it has certainly been suggested.
" Exit purisused by a pissed Bear2 doesn`t sound so good though does it ?"
Chris Paul (3.00pm) said:
"Ga ga ga ga ga ga ga ga plus a half passable joke about Ms Toynbee
The Mail is for the most part a source of the misery and unpleasantness that Newmania and the ilk purvey constantly.
Cameron now needs to join up and diss any referendum. Thatch wouldn't why should he?"
That's what we like to hear, Chris, cogent arguments. Keep it up.
adam sounds like an illiterate twit. Worse, even. Thanks, Newmania.
Well how things change. I remember a number of Tories in 1975 saying they wouldn't vote because they didn't believe in having referenda.
Now we have the Morning Star calling for a referendum and trade unionists saying such a call doesn't make them Tories.
what about this bit of the article though?
"He said the only case for a public vote would be on a much broader “in or out” question about Britain’s membership of the EU, to prompt a serious national debate on Europe."
Ming Campbell? Which one is he?
;-)
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