The only singer from the 1960s to actually deserve his knighthood was, of course,
Sunday, January 13, 2008
Ringo's Not in Cliff's League
Danny Finkelstein asks why Ringo Starr hasn't been knighted. Could I venture to suggest that it's because as a singer he's a bit rubbish and as a drummer he's very rubbish. Just a thought.
The only singer from the 1960s to actually deserve his knighthood was, of course,Sir Harry Webb Sir Clifford Richard. Did I ever tell you about my 150 strong Cliff Richard CD collection? No? Well.... [enough - Ed]
The only singer from the 1960s to actually deserve his knighthood was, of course,
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
53 comments:
That isn't very fair. If Ringo was that bad a drummer then the Beatles wouldn't be such a good band
Starr was (is) an amazing drummer, famed for his metronomic timing abilities amongst other innovations for the time.
The Ringo is a bad drummer came from a John Lennon "joke". On knighthood he said" No, I don’t want to be a sir, I want to be a duke or a prince. So if they come through with that, I’ll seriously consider it."
Ringo doesn't fraternise with the Blairs. That's rather rare for a British pop star and he is to be commended for his good taste.
(Also, although I can't stand him, I don't believe Mick Jagger has much time for the Labour Party, either.)
As is well-known, when asked in 1964 'is Ringo the best drummer in the world?', John Lennon replied 'he isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles'. It is often said he was joking per usual, but this is just a kindness to the affable but pedestrian Starr.
And who was the best, then? Step forward Macca, an outstanding drummer (see Band on the Run) as well as world's best bass player
Unfair, Ringo may not be any of those things, but he contributed to the development of the Beatles with his sense of humour and personality etc, he wasn't a bad drummer either. As for Sir Cliff, one of the biggest fakes in the showbusiness world.
Cliff only ever made one good record - Living Doll.
I once read of him lamenting that no one recognised his contribution to British pop. There wasn't any, he was simply derivative, hence the lack of recognition.
Alan Douglas
Not a brilliant singer, not the best drummer ever, but a fairly competent drummer and one that suited John, Paul, and George, esp as he wored with his three erstwhile colleagues at one point or another after they split up
And given his contribution to British exports, McCartney deserved that knighthood
Cliff is not for eberyone.
Ringo/ The Beatles are the most popular drummer/ band ever.
Cliff Richard copied American pop stars. He had an anodyne fake American accent when he sang, but not when he talked. The Beatles created an British pop ethos and industry that became the rage all over the world and is still going strong, and they sang with a Liverpool accent.
OK, Ringo wasn't the genius behind this, but still, he was in on the game. He was there. He was a player.
Without Ringo's drumming the Beatles would have lacked a great deal.
Whilst not the most technically gifted drummer ever, he came up with instantly recognisable beats which suited the creative talents of Lennon, McCartney and Harrison.
You can recoignize a lot of Beatles songs just listening to Ringo's drumming which is a testement to his abiulity to compose excellent rhythms.
He also rarely made mistakes.
I had the pleasure of hearing Ringo on Friday evening in Liverpool (the contribution of Dave Stewart shows, but the song grows on you.)
Whilst Pete Best was, technically, the better drummer, Ringo's sense of humour was more suited to the image that was created for the "Fab Four."
The fact that he was far less good-looking than John or Paul may have also had something to do with it. Pete Best had always been the girls' favourite.
These days, he seems to come across as a reasonably normal person with a genuinely self-deprecating sense of humour.
Would he thank anyone for a knighthood?
Somehow I doubt if he he needs it or would appreciate the poisoned chalice of shallow adulation, courtesy of star-struck Nu Labour politicians.
Ringo was an excellent drummer. The "not the best drummer in the Beatles" line was a Lennon joke. On another occasion, Lennon said, "Ringo's a damn good drummer". Phil Collins said, "Starr is vastly underrated. The drum fills on the song "A Day in the Life" are very complex things. You could take a great drummer today and say, 'I want it like that.' He wouldn't know what to do." Many leading drummers list Ringo as an influence. And, as the previous comment says, you can listen to a Ringo drum part without the rest of the music and still identify the song. Best ever? No. But one of the best.
So, Iain, you admit, in public, to a hundred and fifty Cliff CDs?
Cliff got lucky. Right place, right time, right look, could sing on tune.
But then the surge of the Beatles overtook him. And the Beach Boys. "Hotel California" (whoever was the band), high profile country & Western singers started a new style of heartbreak. They all surged forward and Cliff was stuck in the Fifties for life. A fly in amber.
And sank to be pretending to be friends with Tony and the manatee. But he did it for the rent, so I don't blame him. (I suspect he is, as I suspect are most pop stars, save Bono, Sting and other self-important mononyms, a Tory voter.)
Ringo was the 'glue' that held it all together, and not just musically.
Arise, Sir Richard.
Bad singer - agreed; but bad drummer - no way, man! Have you heard Tomorrow Never Knows.
Crikey, it puts the hairs up on the back of my neck.
Ringo may not have been the best drummer in the Beatles, but he was the *right* drummer for the Beatles.
And surely any notion that the British honours system rewards merit was torpedoed when Mark Thatcher inherited his dad's title.
Lakelander says "Pete Best was, technically, the better drummer". I wonder where he gets that information from? One of the reasons Best was sacked was that George Martin told them to get rid of him because of his poor drumming. The others being that he didn't fit in personality-wise, refused to conform to the band image and anyway, he was only ever a temporary drummer taken on partly because his mother ran a club where they needed gigs.
As for Iain's original entry, a) Clifford? b) a Starr knighthood wouldn't be for singing. c) his drumming is pretty good, and innovative, though I wouldn't go so far as to say 'metronomic'. Anyway, Iain, could you give us an explanation of what you dislike about his drumming?
Incidentally, I despise that braying ass Finkelstein, so thanks for trying to put him in his place, but do it better next time.
Reading some of the comments here indicates why this should stick to being a predominantly political blog and not one about music....
It also shows that the honours system really has nothing to do with how good someone is within their field of music. The awards are usually about something very different.
The Beatles have the most UK number ones whereas Cliff has the biggest load of number twos.
I can't believe people want him to be knighted for 'being a good drummer'. It should be reserved for those 'extra special' people who make a change to people's lives. Such as Ringo.
Comparisons are odious. They also cloud rather than clarify.
People are best commented on on their own merits, not in comparison to others.
Now what is it someone's trying to say about Ringo? Surely he should be allowed to stand in his own right, or no one can...whether drumming, singing, talking or just being.
As others have said he was/is quite a drummer. In the words of his cloying Liverpool 8 single:
"I never miss a beat"
As a singer he's no Shirley Bassey but he is bad.
You a 'Cliff Richard' fan, somehow I'm not surprised!!
THe best rock drummer ever, an old mate of mine Terry Stannard, put his name into your server.
Aaahhh! Takes me back to my old Cavern days when Cilla Black, (aka Priscilla White) was taking money on the door - she should never have tried to sing! I once hired Gerry & the Pacemakers, The Foremost and Freddie Starr and the Midnighters for 8 Quid per 45min session at a local hall.
As for Cliff Richard, "Living Doll" was the only worthwhile song he recorded and that stiff bunch of "musicians" The Shadows always made me cringe. Ever since goody, goody Cliff started his rather sickly unconvincing performances, he has sounded like a sheep during castration!
Crap drummer? Just listen to "Tomorrow Never Knows" and then have a slice of humble pie.
Ringo's drumming on Abbey Road is great. The drummer in my bands didn't believe it was him on the record!
"150 strong Cliff Richard CD collection"
I'd heard you were house proud but isn't a 150 identical drinks coasters going a bit far? Are you expecting to be hosting a big do? My wholesaler can do you a nice set with 6 views of Cornwall & he does matching place settings as well. Do you want his number?
Nay ! Nay ! Nay !
I was stupid and foolish enough to tune in to your 'Last FM' [Lost FM?] and heard a Cliff Richard song - with a note underneath saying 'Similar tracks' and references to Bobby Vee et al..
I'm afraid I surfed off to Guido before the pain got unbearable...
I've only just noticed the Facebook group which isn't going too well. Personally, I love the Beatles, but a knighthood???
This smacks of a ghey thang ..
I'm a bit too young for this subject, but isn't Ringo Starkey that guy who had 20 number one hits and sold hundreds of millions of singles and albums and is further recognised as being the number one act of all time in the music world?
What a failure. where did it all go wrong for Ringo?
Gary
Basically I think the entire honours system is a crock of shite which any self-respecting "Labour" government would have done away with on or about May 4, 1997.
But since we're on the subject...in terms of their musical contribution I would have thought Syd Barrett (RIP), Eric Clapton, Ray Davies and Pete Townshend were all more deserving of a knighthood than either Ringo or Cliff.
Paul Lindford, Why not same a few more people no one's every heard of?
David Bowie, too, was an exceptional performer and writer and also coincidentally raised the profile of British pop internationally. Also a very elegant man.
He should have a knighthood before Cliff Richard. In fact, what did this anodyne Sixties singer do for his knighthood? Had anyone outside Britain ever heard of him? Did he bring tens of millions of pounds into the country?
Cliff was knighted for his charity work not his singing. I think Cliff can sing good and he had a lot of good songs but like any other singer not all of his songs were good. I think Ringo is a pretty good singer. I like Act Naturally by him. And he is a good drummer too.
Ringo is a good drummer and Cliff is a good entertainer. What do you mean Cliff is one of the biggest fakes in show business?
I like Cliff as well, Iain. I don't know why Verity has a problem with it.
[4:41] I don't have a problem with Cliff Richards. There's nothing to have a problem with. He's harmless and bland. I just don't think he had enough talent to have been accorded a title. I don't think he brought the millions of pounds into Britain that the Beatles, Mick Jagger, David Bowie and even Rod Stewart have and nor did he raise the profile of the British pop music industry as the others I mention did.
Cliff has had more charted singles than any other British artist and has sold more then any other British act 250 million records. He is also one of the pioneers of British rock and Move It was the first successful British rock single ever made. However as someone said Cliff was knighted for his charity work not his music. I like some of Cliff's songs. Ringo is a fair enough singer sounds better than Justin Timberlake anyway. And he is an extraordinary drummer. My name is Lily.
Someone said was Cliff known outside Britain. Yes he is he is famous and popular all over the world and in different countries except perhaps the US. He was also the first pop star to play in Russia too.
Ringo is a good drummer and in singing does pretty good. Cliff is a good entertainer and singer. And Cliff liked the Blairs because they are Christians as Cliff is. But Cliff did say he was disappointed in some of Tony Blair's decisions because of the Iraq war. Kristoff
Of course, if Ringo had put the Blairs up at his gaff for a few freebie holidays, I'm sure he'd be a Sir by now.
Where's the Sir Gibbs then?
Tonee and the Manatee are pretend Christians. They're vicious and destructive vipers and the two of them set out to tear the ancient tapestry of our country apart. And they succeeded. It is not the same country as it was 12 years ago and for all the foregoing centuries.
Anyway, Iain, 150 Cliff Richards CDs is not something you should own up to in public, never mind announce with pride.
Also! At Glastonbury this time, the WHO were absolutely fantastic.
I wanted to know who the drummer was because he was a star.
Zak Starkey. What a performance.
Gary
I own a lot of Cliff Richard records and tapes. I like his singing. I don't know if I announce it with pride or not but I like him. I think he is tremendously talented. Cliff did not charge the Blairs anything to stay at his home. He said so himself. I like Ringo's drumming and I like the Beatles singing. Claire
I love the Beatles music everything about it including Ringo. I like Cliff' singing too and his best song ever is Ocean Deep. Kira
Verity, Bowie refused a knighthood, so it's said. The pop knighthoods thing was just part of Bliar's courting the yoof vote, like Wilson giving the Beatles the MBE only 475 million times more nauseating (he didn't give one to Cliff). Bowie scores points. I don't mind Paul taking it if he wants, but Jagger just shows us what he really is, a vampire whose ego took over Brian Jones's great rock group
The Beatles and Cliff both are great entertainers. I like Tony Blair. He made a misjudgement as anyone could do. Craig W.
Jeez I wished I had been there when it happened. By which I mean Verity's ill-informed comments about the early days of BritPop Mk.1.
Ringo may have played the drums on the Beatles albums but it was Macca who came up with the beats for his songs and showed him what to play. Ringo, bless him, knew when to shut up and do what he was told.
Ringo, may be a nice person,but he can not sing(his voice is bad)try listening to him without music,it's worse! he once said he was the worlds best drummer (dream on Ringo) try listening to Ginger Baker of Cream, now thats a drummer. rumor has it that a session drummer was used on most Beatle hits.
Some of the comments here are incredible, mainly because most of you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.
Sir Cliff Richard received his Knighthood years before Tony Blair was ever in Downing Street. To suggest that Sir Cliff's honour was in any way linked to their friendship is not only inaccurate it is downright defamatory. Get your facts right.
Sir Cliff was honoured with his Knighthood not for his music but for his relentless work for charity. The man has given and raised literally millions of pounds for a wide range of causes for for years, and has been directly involved, not just thrown money, shouted his mouth off and run.
As for his career, his track record speaks for itself. The most successful British recording act of all time. 134 hit singles, 68 top tens, 40 top 5's, 50 years of continuous success. Ringo Starr, let me see - oh yes, the drummer in a band who were bad in the 60's and no longer make records, in short a band who packed it in years ago, a band who had to go to Hamburg to learn hot to cut it because Cliff and The Shadows were wiping the floor with them.
Then there is the relationship with the fans. Sir Cliff has always had a good relationship with his fans. If recent headlines are to be believed, Ringo Starr doesn't even pretend to respect his.
Post a Comment