Tuesday, April 17, 2007

BNP Lists UKIP Council Candidates on Official BNP Website

It would be unthinkable for any of the three main parties to list the candidates of another party on their website. I reckon it would be unthinkable for UKIP too. But it's not for the BNP. Click HERE to see an article on the main BNP website which not only lists where UKIP are putting up candidates, it by implication urges BNP members to vote for them.

Obviously there is nothing UKIP can do about this apart from make clear that they don't want racist votes from the BNP, thank you very much. But it does call into question exactly why BNP supporters think that UKIP are the next best thing. You'd have thought that a semi fascist party which believes in socialist command economy and racial supremacy would have very little in common with UKIP, a party which believes in free markets and free trade. Here's an excerpt from the piece on the BNP website...
British National Party activists and members in all parts of Britain are generally on good terms with local members and activists of the UKIP – having so much politically in common. It therefore strikes us as odd, if not downright bizarre, when we learn from these good (but somewhat misguided) people that they are apparently “not allowed to know” either how many candidates their party is standing in May’s local authority elections or where they are standing!To us, in the BNP, the situation appears incredible and we can’t but help wonder why the average patriotic UKIP activist or member puts up with such unwarranted secrecy! As much as we can understand why that EU-funded party’s MEPs are reluctant (like other parties MEPs) to disclose for what they are claiming such huge sums of taxpayers money from the EU trough for – we cannot understand the party's apparent secrecy over election candidate numbers!Indeed both BNP activists and officials have been approached by slightly embarrassed UKIP members asking if we can shed any light on the subject – as the best answer they can get from their top officials is an unhelpful “over 1,000”! Of course this is the “magic figure” (in terms of borough/district level candidates) that UKIP’s leadership appears to want the world to unquestioningly accept – in the mistaken belief, it has been suggested,
that such a total would “entitle” them to a party political broadcast for England!

Now before anyone has a go at me for smearing UKIP, I am doing no such thing. All I am doing is asking why the BNP seems to think that UKIP are the next best thing to voting BNP. I can't see that their policy platforms have very much in common at all.

What is clear, however, is that UKIP do not have 1,000 council candidates, as claimed by Nigel Farage last week.

97 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hmmm... I think this is a little beneath you. If the BNP were running in say, Monmouthshire, they would hardly be likely to recommend voting for Plaid Cymru or the Lib Dems.

What would you do if they suggested voting for the Tories if a UKIP candidate wasn't available as they don't stand for the assembly ?

I think you are on slightly shaky ground with this.

Although if 'bonkers' Dorries wants to turf Gypsies off to Luton, then I guess anything is possible...

more vulgar than a vulcans vulva said...

So, basically, the BNP are linking to UKIP. UKIP have nothing to do with it.

It's hardly UKIPs fault if other members of other parties find them attractive and certainly not a reason to try and blacken UKIPs name.

It's the BNP who have the problem. Not UKIP.

boom and busted said...

Never mind the side issues. The Tories are going for a vote of no confidence in Brown which should force cowardly McCavity out of hiding and into the Commons to attempt to explain his deliberate destruction of British pension funds.

This is Osborne's chance to hold Brown to account. Could be fun.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1260943,00.html

Anonymous said...

So this is what we have been waiting for.... Oh

If you are a small political party and you cant get enough candidates everywhere you will tell your supporters to vote for someone else.

One think that the BNP and UKIP have in common is they are both anti-establishment parties. So IMHO it would be quite natural.

Also so what!

Anonymous said...

I would have thought the BNP would be on much more fertile ground with a recommendation to vote for the Conservative Party as usual.

Anonymous said...

Looks like an attempt by the Nazis to give UKIP the Kiss of death.

Auntie Flo'

Anonymous said...

Iain, this is pathetic. This is the "Further Links Between BNP & UKIP"... what, the BNP have suggested voting for UKIP, WOW!

ex-labour said...

I think the many British war veterans who fought to save this country in the Second World War and who now, perhaps out of desperation at the way things are going, vote for the BNP would take great exception to being called "Nazis".

Support for the BNP is undoubtedly growing which is perhaps something to do with the fact that the three main parties have almost completely ignored many citizens genuine concerns over issues like crime, immigration, etc.

Michael said...

Iain,

Isn't it obvious why they're bigging-up UKIP?

People are pissed off about the scandalous levels of immigration and the bit-by-bit erosion of working-class communities and the racial-linguistic-religious fragmentation of public space. UKIP want a fairer but firmer immigration and asylum policy.

Cameron’s Conservatives have largely abandoned Michael Howard’s praiseworthy opposition to the status quo. Hence the free plug for UKIP on the BNP's shitty Web site.

Principles beat party politics, I suppose.

Charred Knobble said...

I see the anonymous UKIP astroturfers are out in force today!

Elaib said...

And before you take Eric Pickles, Melissa Kite or indeed the BNPs word for it, wouldn't it be wiser to ask UKIP how many candidates they have?
Thinking about it, it is extroadinary that you take the BNP's word for anything. I take it that you believe them on other subjects?

Anonymous said...

It is simply showing people what options exist to punish the Three Oligopolistic Parties that is all.

What is wrong with BNP pointing out UKIP is also an outsider party.......the others LibDem, Labour, NuCon are all running on the same program

So it is simply two voting blocs - the Insiders - and The Outsiders

Guido Faux said...

Tsk Tsk. Your blog now contains a link to the BNP's website.

No let me think - how I can take that out of context in a smear campaign ...

Michael said...

Then, of course, there is the issue of crime and council housing.

UKIP want bobbies-on-the-beat and tougher penalties for petty thugs and hardened criminals. They also want to see more housing for people who already live here. Basically, Mr Farage and Co. are proposing policies that appeal to the vast majority of British electorate and a vast majority of the Conservative grassroots.

I like David Cameron. I think he’s an intelligent and well-meaning sort-of-bloke. But he’s got to ditch the gimmicky obsession with hoodies and huskies. The Tory brand is already decontaminated. Let’s move on to the meat and potatoes of real politics.

C4' said...

semi fascist party which believes in socialist command economy

Semi-fascist? The BNP is just just old fascist!

All fascists have believed in a socialist command economy from Mussolini to Stalin to Hitler to Blair.

Newmania said...

I `m always surprised at the way you attack UKIP Iain . Personally I find them unrealistic but I do agree with much of what they say and if I thought they could win a good part of my objections would be gone. Personally I usually prefer then to the time serving media clones that have so contaminated public life in the main Parties. The BNP is not really a Socialist Party is it ,it’s a Nationalist Party which unlike some has undertaken to reduce tax …. and barring its abhorrent racist views ,which I gather may well be dropped , also takes up a lot of the ground the Liberal Conservative Party has vacated.
I see UKIP certainly and possibly the BNP is it develops away from its unacceptable genesis , as allies of the Conservative Party . In this context its isn`t hard to see that there would be a cross pollination and the truth is there are equally points of agreement with the Conservatives as you know .

With the Break up of the Union now inevitable it is essential that resurgent Nationalism is not the preserve of racists and fascists . Most of the BNP`s votes come from people who are neither and I see it as up to the Conservative Party to seek a rapprochement with those who feel they are not heard. If I `m honest bellowing Caliban of the BNP in some ways appeals to me more than UKIP which cannot seems to make a simple case for self government without wanting to bring back the birch.

There is something rather unwholesome about this post and what I especially do not like is the implication that a whole swathe pf people are so disgusting that if they as much as mention your name they are tainted. Cameron should stop hugging hoodies are start understanding the BNP.


Having said that the BNP leaders must drop racism and concerntrate on the nationalist concerns of the betrayed working class. Until they do they are mno more than a handy bogeyman..a gift to the Liberals

Iain Dale said...

Could anyone actually explain where I have attacked UKIP in this post? Anyone with half a brain will be able to see that I have gone out of my way not to. Read the article again.

Chad said...

LoL. That was weaker than an 18 Doughty Street attack ad! (but at least a lot cheaper - another cheque please Stephan)

You can't get annoyed when this is the best your rivals can drag up.

Definitely along the lines of a previous post on this theme when you lifted a rumour straight off an anti-ukip forum!

Must try harder Mr Dale - or, heaven forbid, develop some policies to rival UKIP's :-)

Jeremy Jacobs said...

"So, basically, the BNP are linking to UKIP. UKIP have nothing to do with it." is probably the most sensible comment made so far.

Iain, the best thing UKIP can do is to ignore the ramblings from the B*P.

What I don't understand is that you've given a rascist, hatemongering, neo-nazi, rabid anti-semitic party some free publicity.

Jeremy Jacobs said...

Newmania,

Think before you post.

Anonymous said...

The fact that the BNP lists UKIP candidates on its own website does not amount to the existence of any sort of 'link' between the BNP and UKIP so your trailer put out earlier was a meretricious mendacity and ought to be corrected forthwith.

C4' said...

The BNP have tried and failed on numerous occassions to take over UKIP through the use of moles.

i spy strangers said...

Hardly the world's greatest revelation, Iain. Seems to me that the BNP are simply stirring in order to portray UKIP as a less 'open' party than they themselves claim to be.

I agree that you go out of your way not to criticise UKIP directly in your piece, but the implication of your earlier brief headline this morning was that there was some sort of BNP/UKIP link-up.

Let's move on.

puzzled said...

What's an "anti-semite" Jeremy?

Anything you don't like or disagree with?

C4' said...

^very true

C4' said...

My last comment was for i spy strangers

Christina said...

I think you should win the 'Margaret Hodge' award this year, Iain. :-)

(At least she didn't promote the BNP website)

Justin said...

Any anti-fascist blogger and blogging expert worth their salt should know that when discussing fascists, you don't boost their Google-ranking by linking to them.

C4' said...

I hardly see how Mr. Dale 'promoted' the BNP. If speaking out against the BNP is wrong for fear of giving them 'publicity', then I don't want to be right.

By not attacking BNP because fear that it might give them an electoral boost is akin to stick our heads in the sand and thus looking hopeless. It is a socialist approach to life.

Anonymous said...

Boom and Busted - As Private Eye helpfully points out, the problem caused by Broon is as nothing to the £20 billion taken out from pensions by companies taking 'contribution holidays'. But the Tories mention nothing about that because it would embarrass their friends in the City.

And show up the spiritual bankruptcy and poverty of ambition of those self same corporations.

Newmania said...

Iain you ask why the BNP would sympathise with UKIP when there policies are so different. I appreciate you have tried to stress the differences but asking the question carries a meaning of which you are well aware. Its not what you say its what they hear, and as a super sophisticated media savvy Westminster village mouse like you well knows I took you to have asked the “question “ knowingly. Political Parties out of power are not a sum of their professed polices or what they say they will be they are the sum of the members and supporters they are expressions of momentum in public life . You are implying there is a sympathy between supporters and members of these parties behind their policies and this is highly embarrassing to UKIP. That is what I took the point to be .
Perhaps I was mistaken but ( Jeremy) I did ,as always , think about what I posted. You ( Jeremy)think that vehemently opposing the BNP inoculates your views from the taint nationalism carries but I`m not sure how honest that (common) gambit is. There is a place for working class nationalism in this country and the Conservative Party have abandoned it . I just feel uncomfortable when the middle-classes talk of the BNP like lepers.I confess is not an entirely resolved disquiet but there it is .As far as their racism is concerned I have better reasons than most for fearing it.

Rog said...

Iain, you are clearly attempting to link UKIP to the BNP. Again.

Hence your post at 2:15 entitled "Further Links Between BNP & UKIP to be Revealed".

Are UKIP really such a danger to the Conservative party?

Whether you like it or not, the minnows are providing a genuine alternative to the almost identically awful NuLab/NuCon/LibDum parties.

wonkotsane said...

Iain, this isn't a link between UKIP and the BNP.

Why would the BNP encourage people to vote UKIP in an area that they aren't contesting? A political heavyweight like yourself must surely know the answer because to me it's plainly obvious.

BNP policies are too far removed from Liebour and the Lib Dums so your average BNP voter wouldn't consider voting for them. The main party the BNP are likely to lose members or voters to are the Conservatives as they are closer to the BNP politically than Liebour and the Lib Dums. By encouraging members to vote UKIP in areas where the BNP aren't standing a candidate is an attempt to split the Tory vote by encouraging BNP people who would probably have voted Conservative if they couldn't vote BNP to vote UKIP instead.

That way - or so the theory goes - you end up with two weak right of centre nominally conservative parties where previously you would have had a strong Conservative Party and a relatively weak UKIP.

This gives the BNP a better chance of capitalising on the swinging voters in that area. It also gives Liebour a chance of clinging to power, continuing to flood the country with immigrants and giving the BNP something they can keep on using as material when they're looking for support.

The BNPs intention is simply to destablise the current 3.5 party system.

Observer said...

taken out from pensions by companies taking 'contribution holidays'. But the Tories mention nothing about that because it would embarrass their friends in the City.

Crap.

The Treasury told them not to overfund pension plans and threatened to tax them unless they took contributions holidays.

Go away Anon and look up what happened when Nigel Lawson was Chancellor before posting silly slogans.


The Treasury did not want companies socking profits into pension plans and denying Corporation Tax revenues to H M Greed Dept

C4' said...

The BNP are hoping to use UKIP as a Trojan horse to draw in Tories voters. If the BNP were able to takeover UKIP, it would be able to use these right-wing voters to complement it's socialist base to replace New Labour as Britain's biggest fascist party. (The Nulabs use a similar trick between 1994-1997)

Guido Faux said...

"Could anyone actually explain where I have attacked UKIP in this post"

Ok Iain so You didn't actually 'attack' UKIP but you are clearly trying to make them guilty by association.

A technique that doubtless generally works well with the average voter but I guess the people reading your blog are a bit more politically savvy. To them it looks a bit lame.

Anonymous said...

Shock ! Horror ! Probe !

Iain Dale links to BNP Website !

Hold the front page !!

Foxy said...

I suspect the Bigoted Nasty Party are hoping to do rather better than UKIP and think they can present themselves as the fourth largest party in terms of wins in the local elections. That is the story are are preparing.

jailhouselawyer said...

You're so right Iain, the BNP have far more in common with the Tories...

Anonymous said...

Oh, just piss off Jailhouselawyer.

You're a sad, lonely little man.

Anonymous said...

The real Fascists and NAZIS are the Labour party, who jail people for freedom of speech. As with the BNP they are a democratic party, not like Sinn Fein IRA who murdered there way in to Parliament. If the British public don’t want the BNP then don’t vote for them simple as that but this NAZI jibe is running a little thin now, a great many BNP activists are ex British Forces and take exception to being called NAZIS. As I said the NAZIS National Socialists are Labour. The old parties have failed time and time again and we cannot just flip flop from Labour to Tories like a broken record.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what Billy Bragg and his tactical vote swapping website have in differnce to this?

Iain, what do you think?

Pedant said...

As some of your commenters make quite clear, small parties need to act differently from large ones, that's why. The BNP are acting very logically; do not underestimate them Iain. The damage they cause is nearly as valuable to them as seats won.

C4' said...

The real Fascists and NAZIS are the Labour party, who jail people for freedom of speech.

I hate to agree with the BNP troll, but in this case, he is right on that point!

Paul said...

The BNP appear to be trying create a parasitical relationship with UKIP.

Anonymous said...

Some years back in a desperate attempt to climb onto the gravy train that is politics I joined the Monday Club to get on in the Tory party (I was only 17 at the time) as I didnt know anyone who could get me into the Bow Group.
At the time the Monday Club was linked to the Tories, I know it no longer is (either I am for that matter). The Monday Club was basically the BNP for rich people.
Why dont politicans like the BNP is not really to do with its policies (especially if you remember the Cheltenham General Election in 1992, with the Lib Dems saying vote for the local candidate, rather than the black one).
Politicans dont like the BNP as it is a mainly working class political grouping. Not a elitist run political party which gladly takes it money from its members but gives them nothing in return.
The reason for the popularity of the BNP and also UKIP (I am not linking the two) is their policies echo what many people think; whilst politicans are whistling into the wind.

Brickhill Conservatives said...

Elaib said...
And before you take Eric Pickles, Melissa Kite or indeed the BNPs word for it, wouldn't it be wiser to ask UKIP how many candidates they have?
Thinking about it, it is extroadinary that you take the BNP's word for anything. I take it that you believe them on other subjects?


I think the point is that the question has been asked. The answer that comes back is a vague one that carefully avoids specifics.

So tell us Elaib, how many town hall council seat candidates are UKIP fielding?

no longer anonymous said...

A lot of people who vote BNP either don't know about their protectionist (I don't think "socialist" is very accurate) economic policies or don't care and simply vote BNP as a protest vote. UKIP are seen as a joke whereas the BNP scare people and galvinise politicians into reacting, hence why the BNP is able to gain support from those who would otherwise find its ideology reprehensible.

Tito said...

Before I begin, I am a UKIP supporter who strongly despises the BNP.

I feel that many BNP supporters aren't racist, but want a serious immigration policy based on economical factors. Maybe they think that they will never achieve this through UKIP, or maybe they don't know enough about UKIP. It is a shame that the BNP take these sort of votes for their own twisted agenda.

Strange that the main website would commend UKIP like that though, maybe they think they can kill UKIP by trying to infect the parties image with it's poisonous values.

forthurst said...

Maybe they have read the other party's prospecti and decided that UKIP, being the only other party to put up a 'No Vacancies' sign in their window, if voting for them would not advance the BNP cause directly, where they were not themselves putting up canditates, it would at least help to get the message across.

The truth is that voters have not been told what the Dave party stands for. This might be because it doesn't stand for anything. It could also mean that it is keeping its powder dry; essential, when the BBC and the majority of the media are run by marxists masquerading as anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-capitalist, anti-english, pro-multiculturalist traitors.

mutleythedog said...

Your blog has an advert for how to go to college in America. I don't think it will have many takers...

Anonymous said...

"click here"

I'd rather not as most work IT departments take a dim view of surfing on the BNP website.

brown disgusts me said...

I see young Osborne has been wiping the floor with the vile Brown in the no-confidence debate this afternoon.

Anonymous said...

Why should people fear the BNP?
What have they done that is to be feared?

A new genera ration of voters will ask those very same questions, they may know of the Government’s recent failed attempt to convict members of the party on trumped up nonsense aided and abetted by the BBC, but what else?

Have they marched down Whitehall with banners inciting murder, have they bombed the Capitols transport systems murdering dozens and injuring hundreds, have they protest marched at all in the past decade?

Racist? When was the last violent clash between BNP members and ethnic minority groups reported in the papers or shown on T.V.? Would an 18-25 year old voter have seen or remembered one! What comments have its members spoken on TV that was so offensive? Oh that’s right, they’re not allowed on the BBC are they?

The majority of BNP members are patriotic working class socialists that are fed up with the erosion of British culture, mass immigration and the promotion of multicultural nonsense over the majority populations’, something the three main parties have repeatedly failed to address. Support for the BNP is growing; they are now winning local elections and repeatedly out performing other minor parties like the ‘Greens’ they also have an excellent Website that speaks to the new computer generation.

Repeating the same old line that the BNP are nasty and bad doesn’t seem to be working does it.

Tom Paine said...

Seems those privileged people living in the Westminster Village Helium Tent, City and Council Halls of Largesse, Civil Liberties Chambers of luxury, and Media types beholden to 'Charlie' and Big Brother Murdoch . . . are turning a blind eye to a proletariat who will soon be baying for Mme Guillotine and the blood of those who ignore their once modest demands. And beware . . not all the Proletariat are Anglo Saxons.

Anonymous said...

This is it??????
But I thought the Tories had linked to this on their press release recently so are they not another link in the chain? They also utterly got their facts wrong on the numbers so nothing new there. If this was meant to get your 'adsense' numbers up it has worked but apart from that this has been a pointless post and not your finest hour.

no longer anonymous said...

"they also have an excellent Website that speaks to the new computer generation."

The BNP's website strikes me as rather amateur.

Anonymous said...

wonkotsane @ 2:20 said -

"BNP policies are too far removed from Liebour and the Lib Dums so your average BNP voter wouldn't consider voting for them."

Which seems to me a very strange contention.
The people I've heard singing the praises of the BNP - and I've been hearing a lot of them recently - have generally been the sort of people whose fathers and their fathers before them, have been staunch Labour voters. Many of them are embracing the BNP when they would rather cut their own throats than vote Tory. I might also add that this attitude is particularly strong in Labour fiefdoms.
As for Iain's post - I get the feeling that he thinks the BNP are somehow not 'playing the game'. If by that he means the game whose rules are made by the major 3 parties then it's a bit late. The Lib's & the Lab's have been urging 'any vote as long as it keeps the BNP out' for years. They're just turning the tables.

Sisyphus said...

newmania @ 13:28 said:
With the Break up of the Union now inevitable it is essential that resurgent Nationalism is not the preserve of racists and fascists . Most of the BNP`s votes come from people who are neither and I see it as up to the Conservative Party to seek a rapprochement with those who feel they are not heard.

Iain - this is key for your party. It is inevitable (and, as an Englishman living in Salmond's constituency, I'll be trying to help things along by voting SNP) and needs serious discussion if you are not to lose out to the more extreme right.

I recently read Cameron's piece on the Union in the Torygraph and, more relevantly, the reader feedback. The message from Joe Public was pretty clear, wasn't it?

Your policy makers need to get out of London once in a while, and listen to us, the great unwashed.

Nationalism, despite the best attempts of the PC left to make it so, does not necessarily equate to fascism or racism. If the Tories disenfranchise me, who else have they to blame if I take my vote elsewhere?

Anonymous said...

To the idiot who posted earlier to say that the BNP aren't racist, well, have a read of this from their rather disingenuous website. If you can't read between the lines and determine that this is a very dangerous party indeed, then I am happy for you to join them, as you are too thick to indulge in mainstream party politics.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/countering_smears.html

When people talk of British values [whatever they might be] I would think that decency and fair play have rather more of a right to be in there than a facile obsession with race or skin colour, frankly.

Henry Mayhew said...

Iain,

How can you provide a fantastic, sophisticated, blog 99% of the time and then completely undermine your credibility every now and again as you have done today with these two pathetic posts?

Bizarre.

More of the good stuff. Please.

Although I stood for UKIP at the last GE - West Ham as it happens - I am quite happy to read genuine anti-UKIP revelations if you have any. It seems you don't.

Observer said...

I'd rather not as most work IT departments take a dim view of surfing on the BNP website.

http://www.bnpgroup.com/

Pourquoi ?

Anonymous said...

http://www.bnpmedia.com/

The Hitch said...

The BNP is party for BRITISH people who value the BRITISH way of life whatever their skin colour and who put NATIONAL interests before socialistic one world big government bollocks.
Plenty of Black and Asian service men have given their all for BRITISH values, they belong in the BNP and no doubt would be welcome as members
I would much rather try and change the BNP from the inside with like minded souls who really care about Britain than waste my time with a clique of metrosexual old Etonian wankers.
The Conservative party is a standing corpse same with Labour.

Jeremy Jacobs change the record and stop seeing Nazis around every corner , the BNP doesnt shoot school children or bulldoze peoples houses.

wonkotsane said...

One of the Conservative candidates standing against me in May is an ex-National Front youth leader, ex-BNP candidate and now a Conservative. His former partner was a BNP candidate in the same town, "defected" to the Tories for the next election, lost again and went back to the Tories where she is currently the spokewoman for the BNP in Telford.

I think you should do a piece on this evidence of further links between the BNP and the Conservatives. ;o)

pollster said...

Apparently the BNP are tipped to pick up between 70 to 100 more council seats at the May local elections and are likely to achieve around 7% of the overall vote.

It seems that they pick up many more votes from disillusioned ex-Labour voters than Tories. They seem to be becoming a genuine threat to Laour's dominance in many of their Northern and Midlands working-class heartlands.

The Conservative Party has far less to fear from the BNP at present than Labour has.

As for UKIP, most of the signs suggest that they are in serious decline.

Steven_L said...

'Obviously there is nothing UKIP can do about this apart from make clear that they don't want racist votes from the BNP' (ID)

Come off it Iain, down your end of the country they all play racial politics. It's one of my biggest gripes about London.

Housing policies are manipulated for the purposes of electioneering (right to buy and ghetto creation in marginal wards) and councillors and candidates spend forever blurting on about international issues that local politicans have no bearing over.

If the Labour or Liberal councillors start blurting on about Israel, the War on Terror or Islamophobia to get the Muslim vote, the right retaliate by banging on about Darfur, the threat of terrorism, the veil or preachers of hate.

They all play racial politics in London, the effect, in my humber opinion, is to further polarise everyone, whip up feelings of anger and put up council tax while officers waste time running around servicing the 'diversity' and 'equality' agenda.

anonymous bosch said...

And that's all you've got you sad little boy you and boy dave should get back to the 5th form where you belong

Newmania said...

Steven L Thankyou you have just expressed succinctly a thought that I had been vaguely forming in myself . Exceedingly well put

no longer anonymous said...

"Apparently the BNP are tipped to pick up between 70 to 100 more council seats at the May local elections and are likely to achieve around 7% of the overall vote."

Where did you get this info from?

Mr Eugenides said...

Iain,

Your blog is yours to do with as you will, and I don't have any problem per se with people linking to the BNP's blog if they want to: freedom of speech and all that.

However, I question the wisdom of an A-lister choosing to do so. How many hundreds of hits will come their way as a result of your link, and what does it do for their page ranking?

There's an election on. For a party like the BNP, who cannot get airtime on any political discussion show or radio talk show, there's no such thing as bad publicity. You could - and in my view should - have quoted the story without linking to it. I'm sure people would have understood.

Why boost these people with a deluge of hits? If you're not making any point about links between UKIP and the BNP, what's the point?

judith said...

In a recent survey, 32% of Labour voters said they would vote BNP as second choice, only 12% of Conservative voters chose BNP as a second choice.

Yes, there are some Tories around with BNP/NF connections - I don't like that at all. I'm also, however, well aware of LibDem/Labour politicians who are very happy to tell people not to vote for candidates of other Parties because of their sexuality or colour.

Let me remind some of the above posters that whenever the Conservative Party, over the past decade, have tried to question immigration or multi-culturalism, they have been smeared with the cry of 'racism' by the left-wing media and the Government. And the voters have, three times, voted in this duplicitous and incompetent shower, who have encouraged unlimited immigration and promoted the dangerous creed of multiculturalism.

A bit late - and very hypocritical - for them to start running to the BNP isn't it?

Anonymous said...

The original BNP article has been substantially altered to fit their propaganda. The first figure they gave for UKIP candidates standing was eerily close to the Tory lie (805) in their recent press release on the subject. (Possible Tory - BNP link?). They have now changed this to 958 and may change it again when UKIP give the real figures out. BNP - always exposing their own bullshit and colluding with the Conservatives who can't add up.

ex-tory said...

Looking at the policies on their website it seems that the BNP cannot honestly be described as either socialist or racist.

On tax, for instance, they propose cutting the Council Tax by 50% (they explain how this can be achieved), and raising the threshold for paying income tax to £15,000. These are policies most traditional Tories would support.

And looking at their page http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/countering_smears.html
it is interesting to see that their policy on immigration does not mention race at all and they say they do not seek an all-white Britain.

Very interesting. Maybe things aren't as black and white as we have been led to believe (excuse the pun!).

Ethnic Cleansing said...

Looking at the policies on their website it seems that the BNP cannot honestly be described as either socialist or racist.

Read their constitution! Their very core, unchanging aims.

They have a constitutional pledge to restore Britain to its 'white balance' of 1948, first by offering cash to non-whites to leave the country, then pledging legal changes if the 'nice' approach does not work.

Heard of anything similar before? Forcibly removing an ethnic group from your country? Ring any bells?

I wonder what planet some people are on.

Observer said...

irst by offering cash to non-whites to leave the country

but that is already Law of the Land in the 1971 Immigration Act (Sect 29).....I just wish they would extend it to the native population giving Whites say £400.000 to leave Britain.

Jorgen said...

UKIP and BNP are for many a vote on "none of the above" and for some probably just a vote for immigration control.

no longer anonymous said...

"However, I question the wisdom of an A-lister choosing to do so. How many hundreds of hits will come their way as a result of your link, and what does it do for their page ranking?"

Type "BNP" into google and they crop up first anyway. Besides, of what consequence is their page ranking? We need to beat them in the arena of ideas, trying to shut them out just makes it easier for them to make accusations of a multipaty conspiracy.

Observer said...

BBC

The institutions have made themselves attractive to 2% population thereby alienating 98%.

Is this a coherent political strategy ? Discuss

Peter said...

Isn't that BNP article trying to attack UKIP by insinuating its not open about its candidate numbers? - It doesn't read as supportive to me.

Although I don't understand this thing about UKIP being libertarian. Most UKIP members / supporters I've bumped into are anything but.

Lagwolf said...

Yes, the BNP are trying to brown the name of UKIP to get rid of them. There is no collusion so I fail to see why its a story really.

martin said...

I agree with Peter:to me the article reads as an allegation that the UKIP leadership was less than open and candid when it claimed that it was puting up 1000 candidates.

Iain in his blog questions the overlap between UKIP and BNP policies. There is one obvious one: both are opposed to continuing EU membership. Moreover where there may be stark differences between the official policies of UKIP and thos of the BNP, the reality at grassroots is, I suspect (not knowing members of either party)of reasonable similarity. Remember the description of UKIP from the Euro elections as "the BNP in blazers"?

Martin

It's time to put on makeup said...

I suspect (not knowing members of either party)

Um, so without knowing members of either party, you conclude that they are the same.

Very thorough and objective. Well done to you.

I bet if you put an old BNP and Tory member in a room without rosettes but just listened to their views, you wouldn't be able to tell one from the other.

Muppet.

martin said...

There's no need to be insulting. I used the word "suspect" deliberately. My not personally knowing UKIP or BNP members doesn't mean I cannot pick up evidence from websites and blogs, newspaper and TV reports.

I don't suppose Iain Dale hob nobs with UKIP and BNP members either, but no one denies his right to comment on those parties' policies and members.

Soddball said...

Iain's primarily stirring because UKIP are contesting 10 of the 16 wards in Tunbridge Wells, and he's jittery.

Iain Dale said...

Well, that's the first I knew of it I can assure you!

Suspect said...

Martin,

Without knowing you, I "suspect" you are a bit of a prick.

Is that OK?

Anonymous said...

"All I am doing is asking why the BNP seems to think that UKIP are the next best thing to voting BNP."

Because the lib/lab/cons are the problem. UKIP and the BNP are the best chances of a solution.

Anonymous said...

I bet if you put an old BNP and Tory member in a room without rosettes but just listened to their views, you wouldn't be able to tell one from the other.
>>>>
and if Cameron had any sense he'd realise it.

The BNP are a threat to both Labour and Tories which is why in the fullness of time they'll change the political landscape....

martin said...

'Martin,
Without knowing you, I "suspect" you are a bit of a prick.
Is that OK?'

I "suspect" you are a UKIP member, who is rather sensitive about others seeing the affinity with the BNP. But at least I don't descend to personal insults.

wonkotsane said...

If the Tories pledged to tighten up immigration with a system like they have in Australia, pledged to leave the EU, pledged to establish an English Parliament like they have in Scotland and ditched this "green" bulls**t they would walk away with a bigger majority than Liebour had in 1997 and they'd be in power for the foreseeable future.

It's interesting, isn't it, that a party that relies almost exclusively on English votes for electoral success doesn't even publish an English manifesto whilst UKIP are constesting elections in all four home nations in the UK have a manifesto for England. Which other party has a manifesto for 80% of the population?

Devil's Kitchen said...

Mr E,

You could - and in my view should - have quoted the story without linking to it. I'm sure people would have understood.

I'm sorry but for once I utterly disagree with you (and I expressed a similar idea on another post).

If the BNP are so odious, then people will realise that from their website writings. What you are effectively doing is to stifle free speech in the blogosphere.

If anyone quotes an article, I want to see the link so that I can verify context, etc. Otherwise, how can I judge whether the comment piece is fair?

A lot of the trouble is that people don't read the BNP manifesto and so utterly misunderstand their position. This is because people refuse to even countenance looking at the BNP site, let alone linking.

As we have copnstantly said, over the issue of free speech: let them say what they say and then demolish their arguments.

So, I say to Iain: thanks for heeding my comment and well done.

DK

Anonymous said...

"It would be unthinkable for any of the three main parties to list the candidates of another party on their website." err, not if Ming had played ball with G Dyke.

Anonymous said...

"What is clear, however, is that UKIP do not have 1,000 council candidates, as claimed by Nigel Farage last week"
Spot on Ian, but not in the way the Tory and BNP counted and released figures for their own agendas. The final figure is 1031 and that excludes 218 town and parish council candidates. Time to eat humble pie?

Laban said...

Ian - the obvious reason for the link would be that UKIP in common with the BNP want to halt mass immigration - a policy shared by no other 'mainstream' party.

You should read today's Times on the BNP fascist support.

"About 70 people are packed into a back room of the Golden Lion pub, with not a skinhead or pair of Doc Martens in sight and more tweeds than T-shirts. They are male and female, young and old, working class and middle class, ex-Labour and ex-Tory, several of them Daily Telegraph readers. They are mostly solid Yorkshire folk who have watched immigrants transform areas in which they grew up and believe — rightly or wrongly — that their way of life is under threat. They are bewildered more than hate-filled. They are fearful more than fear-inspiring, and feel gagged by political correctness. They do not come from sink estates. They are stakeholders, people with something to lose. "We’re being overwhelmed," laments a retired Latin teacher. "I've nothing against other races. It's just that they keep flooding into the country to breaking point," says a lorry driver. "We can't invite the whole world to live in England," says a former merchant marine officer. Few will give their names."

sales said...

Having read through most of the posts I do find it staggering in this so called democratic society that posters remain anonymous, that is something I feel diminishes their argument. I on the other hand always state who I am. I represent and organisation called Freedom to Choice who support UKIP as the only main stream party to have the courage to say that they will support amendments to the UK smoking bans to give choice to all. As a former conservative voter all my adult life at a National level I have read lots about the New UKIP and am impressed with their forward thinking agenda. They have embrassed the areas that the Tories should be fighting on but Cameron's Tories are no better than Blair's Labour Party. As for candidates I think as has been shown Iain has not checked his facts, either way. In Swindon where I am a UKIP candidate there are actually only 9 not 11. Why does Iain try to make this so sinister, have not the other main stream parties, notably the liberals and labour in the past not stood in certain wards by agreement so as to keep out the Tories. This was a mutually agreed strategy, the BNP thing is nothing to do with UKIP and is frankly not welcomed. We may believe in controlled EU immigration but so does the Tories and now Labour. The difference is UKIP said it first, and apparently makes us racist. The ordinary people out there will decide, if you have a UKIP candidate in your ward vote for them, show the main stream they cannot control politics as well as our lives. Give Democracy back to the people.

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