Thursday, March 08, 2007
Patrick Mercer Resigns
Several people have asked I'm previous threads why I haven't commented on the Patrick Mercer situation. I know you will find this difficult to believe but I have been in meetings since 3.15 and am about to go into another one. Come back between 6 and 7 and I'll give you my views.
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58 comments:
Wow, Patrick really is a stupid fuck.
Patric Mercer = Idiot.
But you'll notice it's the lead on the BBC news website, but when something breaks on the Cash for Honors criminal investigation, it's buried on the political page. I wonder why? Bias...never
I didn't like the way that opportunistic fuck Khan jumped on it, or the Tory party's total abandonment of him. Just like lazy white bastards use "back trouble" as an excuse to dodge work, I'm sure that "racial abuse" can be used as an excuse for non-majorities to dodge work in a welfare state.
Look - as a politician, he should have known better, and he should have known that lefty morons and David Cameron would twist it, but he hasn't committed a capital offence.
He said that SOME ethnic minorities had a sense of entitlement and didn't pull their weight. When pulled up on it, they cry "racism", which is what this current government has trained them to do.
Mr Mercer didn't say all ethnic minorities were bad soldiers. He said the ones that are hide behind the easy charge of "racism" are justifying their laziness and incompetence. As I said on the next thread down, I am certain he is full of admiration for the Gurkhas and is pleased that they have finally won equal pension rights. Equally, I am certain he is in awe of VC holder Sgt Beharry. I am certain he would have no problem serving under American General Honoré.
Blair has poisoned British political life with this "racism" thought fascism.
There are times when Politicians need to learn to keep quiet. This was one and Mercer failed. He pays the price.
When there is so much an opposition defence spokesman could and should be talking about, he picks this drivel.
Next.
richard bailey, but why should a politician 'need to learn to keep quiet'?
I want a politician representing me who is not afraid to say what he thinks, within the limits of the law. Did our politicians swear allegiance to the god of PC when they entered Parliament? Why should that even be a consideration?
It's time the Conservative oparty taught their members some street smarts in politics.. cos sure as eggs is eggs Mercer is as dumb as they come....
Where has he been living for the past 5 years...?
Cameron sacks Mercer for expressing an honest opinion and one which only the brainwashed, politically correct clones would regard as "racist".
It's no wonder that increasing numers of ordinary, decent Britons are turning to the BNP in despair at what's happening in this country.
Conservative HQ's initial response was to excuse the remarks as 'personal'.
This casual reaction is almost as bad as the remarks themselves and, yet again, reveals something about the tories which many of us are suspicious of and which rears it's ugly head from time to time.
madasafish, I see what you mean, but why should Patrick Mercer (or any other politician for that matter) have to kowtow to the PC lobby by being 'street smart' and not uttering such inflammatory words?
Instead of thinking of street-smart ways to avoid the PC trap (eg by using measured language), politicians should be brave enough to tackle the PC lobby.
PC is a dangerous ideology, and one that politicians should be exposing. They should be speaking out against this indoctrination and its erosion of our fundamental rights. For this reason, I do not believe that a politician should temper his speech to satisfy the self-righteous high priests of PC ideology.
Madasafish - I believe he is a decorated ex-serviceman, so probably doesn't have a cowardly bone in his body. He is well out of the roiling nest of cringing vipers at Westminster.
And we thought you were here purely for out amusement...
I hope you take a strong line over this racist thug
Several squaddies who served under Mercer have come forward to say he was never racist - the opposite - as an officer in the army.
But it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't for David Cameron. Mercer's words were nuanced but being a frontbencher and saying something like this show's he's not streetwise, he should know how the 24 hour media would jump on this and quote from him selectively.
Didn't the guy have media training?
Dave now stands shoulder to shoulder with Ted in the "daft sackings" section.
Mercer is more a real MAN than stevie hilton or dave will ever be.
Enough of this political wimpery.
Mercer doesn't have a racist bone in his body-ask his men.
over at weasel's words I said:
I cannot see what all the fuss is about. The Army is institutionally abusive and tough. We don't want an Army full of wussies do we?
I suspect this is more about pre-pubescent Cameron acolytes airbrushing Old Tories out of the picture. If this is the case, not only is it disingenuous, it is pointless. They won't go away, you know.
Perhaps he's just not cut out to be a politician in today's cowardly thought fascist world that David Cameron has adopted wholesale.
I had already decided that I wasn't voting Tory as long as Cameron was leader when he was too cowardly to vote for the Catholic Church to be allowed to opt out, on religious conscience, of placing vulnerable children with gay couples.
Now he condemns a decorate soldier for voicing some very obvious comments about some layabouts and laggards in the armed services.
Cameron is a coward. I really loathe him. Women don't like cowardly men and he will have sacrificed a lot of votes by cringing at the altar of political correctness, aka thought fascism.
You know, I've met "a lot of lazy and idle" Tory MPs in my time. And Tories need to get used to being called "brainless racist wankers," because it goes with the territory.
Mercer was talking to journalist from Times online who he'd known ever since the same hack had worked on local Nottingham rag. He thought he was just having a chat had no idea this would be written up as an "interview". If you analyse his comments he wasn't being racist he was making an observation on what rightly or wrongly actually goes on in the real non pc world. However he is silly to make unqualified comments to a journalist and should have made sure they were reported in the correct context.
Bj
Nah nah nan nah calling me names you twat. You can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut for all i care.
I think you'll find the last Cash for Lordships story was big because it concerned the BBC being gagged. Generally the BBC has buried the stories.
Re Mercer, If a Tory front bencher had suggested that all immigrants should speak english and be forced to do community work before they are granted citizenship, the BBC would denounce it as racist and wheel out some usual suspect like Trevor Phillips to denounce the Tories. Because it was said by the dear leader to-be one G. Brown it's ok. Note also that the Mercer story was broken by the NuLab house rag, the Times. Probably by Tom Baldwin
The whole point of army training is to shout at recruits to put them under extreme mental stress.
This prepares them for the extreme stress of battle - if they are to "crack" they "crack" when its safe.
It use to be called "bully". eg rip the bed apart and do it again. Strip the Rifle down over and over.
Call you names that will get to you at the same time.
You can't re-create battle pressure by asking people nicely to strip down their rifles over and over.
Black soldiers that worked under him have stood up for him for fuck sake.
Mercer showed a lack of judgement in making those comments in the PC, thought-police infested times we live in. For that alone (not the comments) he should go.
The great shame is that it would now seem to be almost impossible for high flyers from the "get-things-done" walks of life to hold any sort of public office. The biggest loss is to the effective running of the country.
Occasionally the tory facade, that has been carefully constructed by Cameron, slips and we see the same old rotten, ignorant, bigoted tories we always knew were there.
>bel and verity
What you say may very well be true.
BUT - and frankly if any Conservative denies this, they are NUTS - politics is all about presentation and perception..
And the man confirmed many old prejudices about Conservatives ie. they don't care.
As for the freedom of speech argument , well it's just an excuse. Mercer is free to say what he likes. But if he is a Conservative Party Spokesman he has to keep to certain agreed norms.
Reminds me of the Howard Fleet (?name) incident before the last elction on Government spending.. As much political subtlty as the Charge of The Light Brigade and just as effective.
If you are confronting a professional PR spin machine as the Labour Party is, you HAVE to be careful of what you say and how you say it on sensitive issues.
Apologists for Mercer obviously don't recognise that:-(
Anonymous 5:43
The Duke of Wellington was more of a man than any of them too. He thought the abolition of the slave trade was a big mistake. Being brave doesn't stop you being stupid or wrong.
Yes he had to go, the BBC would probably accused the Conservative Party of being allied to the Klu Klux Clan if he had not, BUT why is this country so bloody politically correct. Bring back Alf Garnett and Benny Hill PLEASE!!!
Is this wretched Nu Lab 'anonymous' some kind of automated blogger or web bot? I'm starting to wonder - He/She/It is everywhere at the moment.
Any white indigenous politician or other public figure who breaches the tenets of the insane doctrine of political correctness is finished in this country.
Who's country is it these days and who's decision was it to give it away?
Going after men like Patrick Mercer for this sort of thing means that we will end up with Politicians who have no views, or experience of anything other than Politics, the meedia and public relations.
Vacuous actors ending up as PM. Toothless journos ending up as Chancellor. Know-nothing naredowells telling everybody else how to live their lives.
Most of the comments on this thread about "same old Tories" are from left wingers hiding in areas of economic apartheid, pretending to themselves that they are superior to everyone else because they are so nice and pc, vote labour and "have many friends that are black".
Mercer was simply telling like it is. If you don't like it, try and change it, but don't shoot the messenger - particularly one who understood his brief and handled it competently - simply because you are worried about cat-calling on Question Time tonight
Thanks to Mercer and his friends in the Tory and Labour parties, British soldiers are dying weekly in hopeless circumstances in Iraq -and he calls our servicemen "lazy". Fuck the race element, that's enough to mark him down as a first-class tosser.
"Occasionally the tory facade, that has been carefully constructed by Cameron, slips and we see the same old rotten, ignorant, bigoted tories we always knew were there."
What exactly was it he said that was racist and in what way was it racist? I don't consider pointing out that some ethnic minorities may wrongly cry racism to be racist. It is simply a factual observation.
Don't worry Iain, I have done it for you on my blog.
-and he calls our servicemen "lazy".
Funny that since he has been serving in Iraq in uniform.....which is more than can be said for any Labour MP.....
Then again some of our Servicemen are lazy just as some of our MPs, policemen, judges, teachers, councillors, are lazy.
He seems a decent bloke, but he's politically naive. The usual suspects will make hay with this and, frankly, he's let the side down. Cameron had no option.
"Homeland Security" is newspeak for "confronting the ethnic minority islamic extremists and their white fellow-travellers".
The guy stands zero chance of engaging the so-called silent majority ethnic community if odious rent-a-mullahs like Sadiq Khan are given open goals like this.
This is realpolitik not the Army - you persuade, rather than simply command acquiescence. So brain is always best engaged before mouth.
Full marks for a fairly prompt decison after a wobble, and even fuller marks for a dignified resignation (and hopefully a lesson learned).
Tch. This issue is badly in need of Praguetory's faux-outrage.
I hope he dies in a car crash.
Anon 5:25
In what way were the remarks so bad? Is it not possible that some people slack off then hide behind accusations of racism? I take it you personally know every non-white member of Mercer's regiment, and know that none of them ever did so?
If you also posted at 5:39 (do you people not understand that pseudonyms are anonymous, but far easier to debate with and less childish?) then I would have to agree that Tories will often be called "brainless racist wankers" by people like you, who are unable to come up with a reasoned argument so just try to put the debate beyond discussion.
So who is the brainless, racist wanker, the one who makes a considered comment or the one who cries "racism" every time a white politician he disagrees with discuses race?
Your post here is certainly brainless, since I suspect you do not make the call when a black discusses whites in far worse terms I suspect you are also racist. The final part, well, I think your postr speaks for itself.
I am sure some of you supporters of Mercer are either:
1.NUlab supporters in disguise hwo want the Cons to look racist
or
2. as thick as pig excrement.
If you really think the Conservative Party has any - repeat ANY- chance of regaining power with Front Bench spokesmen spouting off like Mercer, then frankly you are living in the last century.
Fortumately for the Conservatives, David Cameron is not as thick as you lot more..
Patrick Mercer said the wrong thing, and given the way certain media elements would play it up (ie the BBC) he had to go.
I find Labour's Shahid Malik's remarks on this, as quoted by the BBC, just as objectionable. They are based on the same type of arbitrary groupings and generalisations, but in his case the vicious spite is premeditated. And, of course, the BBC approves.
Will one of the people crying racism please tell us what was said that was racist?
Sorry to shout, but you have been asked several times, but have not left off your faux outrage (good term Guido 2.0, perfectly describes this whole affair) to answer. It is an important question; if this is not a reasonable resonse to racism (which I think it is not) then it is knee-jerk political suppression of speech.
Nothing I have seen in the news report of his words was racist.
I don't know if it was true - during my service I met very few who were swinging the lead, none of them were minority race. However I also saw no racism. I saw a man being called "nigger", but only by his very closest friends. The mixed races were all treated equally, and respected according to ability and personality, not colour.
Observer, he might have been to Iraq whilst wearing a uniform - but it wasn't during this war that he supported, and it wasn't wearing a British Army uniform - since he left the army for the Beeb four years before the war started.
I doubt most people give a toss whether he or any of the other MPs who took us to war have served, the fact remains that if you call our soldiers "idle" at a time when you, personally, as a politician not an officer, have put them in the firing line, you are liable to be considered a bit of an idiot. Which, sadly, is not the reason why Dave sacked him.
Dynamite - I don't know if they have remedial reading lessons near where you are, but I would strongly council you to sign up if they are available. You have a problem with reading comprehension.
Mr Mercer specifically said that some of the shirkers, and there are shirkers in every outfit and every company and every department in the world, tried to cover up their poor performances by using the word "racism". You need to be able to understand what you read before you comment.
richard dale 6:58
You should be really worried that you cannot see the racism in what he said. It is obvious to all decent people - but rhen again you are a tory.
Ah Verity, as patronising and spiteful as ever. And as wrong. He talked about "a lot" of "idle and useless" - soldiers at a time when he shares responsibility for putting them in the firing line. Try and worm out of it on his behalf if you like, but he's admitted it was a very foolish sentiment to express.
Drew Barrymore is a bitch, she's always standing up for racists. I heard when she'd just finished filming ET, she put out for an entire chapter of the KKK, one after the other.
Does anyone know if this Patrick Mercer dude likes child stars?
Oi! King Bongo! Yeah, you! My cat's called Rupert and I accuse you of being animalist and an ailurophobe! I want you to resign immediately. Dave can put out a statement.
Does anyone know, did Patrick Mercer support the normalisation of pensions for the Gurkhas?
Is there any point is listening to any Tory MP now?
The message is handed down from hilton and then mouthed by members.
Once youv'e heard one on a given subject you can switch off.
Roll on Question Time!
Anonymous 7:15
So not only are you not willing to even give a pseudonym, you cannot justify your assertion. That is clear
I ask again, what about this is racist? Under what definition of racism? "Obvious" is the lazy argument of someone who doesn't even know why he believes what he does.
Dynamite
Verity is right, you need to reread what was said. Mercer did say some soldiers are lazy. That, however, is undeniable. What he did not suggest was that a large proportion was lazy.
Some people say what they mean, unlike the slack, lazy language most people employ. Why do you assume Mercer means anything more than he says?
Mason on Conshome is starting a "Reinstate Mercer" campaign.
Should be interesting!
Richard, he said "a lot" of our soldiers are useless and idle. They're facing death every day - he isn't - he helped send them there. If he thinks that, perhaps he would be advised to keep it to himself, just for the moment.
Dave has made a mistake here. He will have thrown away huge wadges of votes.
Obviously, the socialists would have been expected to seize on Mr Mercer's relatively harmless and interesting comments and make a dog's breakfast out of them.
But Cameron and a couple of others should have had a meeting with Mr Mercer and Mercer should then have called a press conference stating it had been brought to his attention that some members of the press had misunderstood his clearly-worded comments.
He should then, with the text rolling behind him, have repeated that couple of paragraphs and stated that he was bewildered by the extrapolations by the leftwing press. He should have been flanked by a couple of his former squaddies, including a black one.
It would have all been over by tea time.
Dave has made a fool of himself. It tells us he cannot handle even a minor emergency with alacrity and grace.
Dynamite, you're struggling aren't you? He said that when he was in the army (past tense) he met 'a lot' of soldiers who were lazy. There were clearly a lot more who were not. It is obvious that the lazy soldiers were a minority. At no point did he mention soldiers currently in the army, nor did he suggest that a majority were or are lazy.
I don't imagine the composition of the army has changed hugely in the past few years, other than a few of them dying for Mercer and Co's pointless war. It was crass and stupid of him to insult our troops at this time, he's paid the price.
Dynamite:
He. in. no. way. hurt. the. feelings. of. the. troops.
He pointed out that some malingerers sheltered under the term "racism". He did not say all, or the majority, or even a large number, of black squaddies were malingerers. Black squaddies have come forward to speak up for him.
Mr Mercer should have had a press conference, as I noted above. Afterwards, there should have been coffee or drinks and mixing around and I will bet you a dollar to a dime that some journalist would have decided to interview the black squaddie with the idea of featuring him in the Sunday edition. All's well that ends well.
Dave has shown that he panics. It was a small squall that could have easily been managed. Instead a man has lost his job as a Shadow Minister. For shame!
i dont want to live in a society where free speech, exprsesing an opinion are outlawed. That doesnt make me anti-ginger, a facist or any other of the stereotypes alluded to on the thread.
this bloke is sacked for essentially nothing and reid is still in a job, cameron needs to stick up for himself and his team. how can you allow a criminal and a bunch of despised losers in NuLab to set the agenda?
we all know cameron had to do what he did but thats because he has no views on anything, he always has to take the defensive route. this is a perfect counter attack op, let the liberals bark and then go on telly and say exactly what you think, they were daft but not racist comments, ordinary people would see that for the sense it is.
anonymous 9.45pm wrote,
we all know cameron had to do what he did but thats because he has no views on anything,...
Never particularly thought about it before, but this is a very apt description and is why Cameron will never be a good prime minister.
Personally, I rather think the UK is descending into chaos with this PC attitude. We also saw yesterday the mischievous footing of the so-called serious assault on a woman by a police officer. Reading some of the posts sent to Sky, I wondered if some of the correspondents actually saw the video before they started to shout their mouths off. Clearly, from the statement by the Chief Constable, he is more of a man than the wet Cameron.
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