Wednesday, August 16, 2006

Inigo Wilson Deserves Our Support

This country has a tradition of protecting free speech. It defends those whose views may offend. So the plight of Mr Inigo Wilson (pic) is one which should concern all those who cherish free speech. Inigo wrote a piece for ConservativeHome a few weeks ago in which he exposed "Leftyspeak". At the end of his article he compiled a Lexicon of Leftyspeak, which was slightly more entertaining than his original article. Before you read on, click HERE to read his article.

Guido has already written HERE about the Muslim Public Affairs Committee demanding that Wilson's employer, Orange, sack him. Orange have suspended Mr Wilson "pending an investigation", as Guido reports HERE. I should at this point explain that I do not know Mr Wilson, have never met him, or to the best of my knowledge spoken to him. But I am going to defend him.

I very much hope that Orange won't appease the self-styled Muslim Public Affairs Committee. Click HERE to see how they have whipped this up into something far bigger than it ever should be. So let's just inject some perspective...

Inigo Wilson's critics should read the whole article. It is an attack on the left's approach to language and the way language is used to shut down debate and promote a particular world view. His definitions of "class" "gender issues" and "race issues" should make it clear to anyone that he is absolutely opposed to stereotyping people collectively but thinks that "how they think, feel or behave as individuals" is rather more important. It's also intended to be satirical. Sadly, his opponents have proved his point for him by their reaction. This is now a serious issue about freedom of speech. Inigo was acting in his private capacity. Orange have a choice - are they on the side of Hezbollah-supporting fanatics (see Athena/A Murphy's posts on ConservativeHome at the end of the thread) - or are they on the side of freedom of speech? Is it still good to talk?

Do also check out THIS Wikipedia entry for the Muslim Public Affairs Committee which is behind the complaint to Orange. Even that bastion of free speech (not), the NUS has banned it from its platforms, apparently.

Let's wait to see what Orange do before we condemn them, but if you are an Orange customer and would like to vent your views to their Media Relations Director Stuart Jackson, here's his email - stuart.jackson@orange.co.uk.

UPDATE: The Muslim Public Affairs Committee describes itself on its website as "the UK's Leading Muslim civil liberties group, empowering Muslims to focus on non-violent Jihad..." Now call me old fashioned, but am I alone in finding the use of the word 'jihad' a little alarming? Perhaps Orange do too...

116 comments:

Anonymous said...

I think a point is being reached in Britain where people have to make a stand against political correctness. We are turning into a police state. Getting suspended because of your out-of-work hours politcal humour smacks of Pol Pot, Saddam and Idi Amin. It should not happen in a developed country.

Andrew Woodman said...

I wote to orange as soon as I saw this and got a very speedy response. This is what they said.

To clarify, the suspension of an employee is not intended to imply that the employee in question has done wrong. It is a neutral act that allows us to conduct a full investigation and reach a conclusion based on facts.

I will gladly update you regarding the outcome of the investigation.

I feel another reinstate campiagn coming on. Will have to check if www.reinstateinigo.com is available.

The jabberwock said...

If MPACUK can get you labelled as an "anythingphobe", your chances of doing anything better than sweeping streets are severely limited.

I would argue that to destroy someone's ability to earn a living is as good as murder. How many of us are rich enough to stand up to this kind of blackmail without having to think seriously about the implications for our families?

Granted, if the man currently works in PR, maybe this wasn't the smartest move on his part. However, from where I am standing, he was poking fun at the grotesque Orwellian corruption of our language by the Cultural Marxists currently in power.

We need to mount as effective a counter-protest as our enemy.

As I have suggested on Guido Fawkes' website:

MPACUK are going all out to get this chap.

See:

http://forum.mpacuk.org/showthread.php?p=170262#post170262

Spread the word, too. Get everyone you know who is on Orange to write to them stating that you will take your custom elsewhere if they DO sack him.

5:30 PM


We can either hang together, or be beheaded separately.

charles martel said...

hold on folks - has anyone read what the guys job is?

"a Community Affairs Spokesman for Orange"

http://5thnovember.blogspot.com/2006/08/tory-blogger-suspended-by-orange.html

i would think, that if he were just an lowly engineer, then Orange would have no right to suspend him.

But considering that he's a "Community affairs spokesman" - basically a PR guy - then I cant blame Orange for suspending him.

From a purely commericial/business point of view, I would have done the same thing to that chap. Its just not good PR for the company.

(not that i'm defending MPAC - i'm anti-Islamist)

Anonymous said...

Charles Martel:

Neither Inigo Wilson's piece nor its preamble identified him as an Orange employee. Is it really "good PR" for any commercial organisation to be seen to be suppressing free speech in the interests of appeasing Muslim customers? Particularly a firm which thinks that it's "good to talk"?

Tom Rowley said...

To claim that Mr Inigo's comments are Islamophobic, as MPAC has done, without any justification and with such evident bias is libel. Defamation law stipulates that MPAC should have considered both sides of the arguments and asked Mr Inigo to comment before they publsihed the article. If he is sacked, he should sue MPAC.

Verity said...

Charles Martel - He can do anything the hell he likes, within the law, in his own time.

Andrew Woodman quotes the Orange spokesman as saying, somewhat grandiosely to say the least, that suspension "is a neutral act that allows us to conduct a full investigation and reach a conclusion based on facts." My God! This isn't the Foreign Relations Committee of the US Senate! What does a "full investigation" entail? A fellow wrote an article and signed it. That's all the facts, right there.

Hearing closed.

If Orange is taking its orders from Muslim self-styled special interest organisations, then they had better have a lot of Muslim customers because their corporate death will be lingering and painful - starting with the avalanche of bad publicity this is already generating.

Charles Martel said...

"Neither Inigo Wilson's piece nor its preamble identified him as an Orange employee"

but his picture is up there. and he's a "community affairs spokesman" for Orange.

he should have posted anonymously, considering the job he has.

"Charles Martel - He can do anything the hell he likes, within the law, in his own time."

errr. no he cant. he cant bring the employers name into disrepute. there is such a thing as an "employment contract".

red tamarin said...

I'm with Charles Martel (8.34pm). This guy is supposed to be a Community Affairs Spokesman - surely he should have a little more sense than to post what he did? He obviously has no idea about the Muslims (lunatic groupings or otherwise), and how they would react, given what he wrote.

I think Orange can quite rightly suspend him. It may be his free time he's doing it in, but it is an area very relevant to his job description (community relations) and he makes the company look bad in the same way he would do if he took an acting part in the next Vodaphone advert.

ian said...

"A Gerald Ratner moment"

You fail to note that Inigo Wilson is employed, not as a common or garden flunky, but as a "Community Affairs Spokesman". As such, he should be well aware of the likelihood of offending vast swathes of the community with his comments.

He was identified as a community affairs spokesman for a telecoms company, and anyone with a mastery of google could have determined that it was Orange. Given that he was identified as such a spokesman, it could be inferred that this was the view of his employer.

Verity: The company is probably well within its rights to sack him - as his words have potentially damaged the company's standing within the community. Check your contract - it will say the same.

strapworld said...

Does anyone know about COMMON PURPOSE and what they do?
I have been told they are funded through the Dep PM's office and the EU. BUT they are as much to blame for this sorry episode I reckon.

Anonymous said...

I agree that free speech must be defended, and have sent an email.
It is just a shame that we are having to defend such a pillock.

He freely admits to being anti the diversity of efforts of personnel at Orange. So why is he 'Community Affairs' manager then ?

I agree that he should have the right to freedom of speech to make bad taste jokes on any website he pleases. He should do so in a personal capacity without dragging Orange company policy & strategy into it. If he was working for a bank would he be criticising the introduction of 'Sharia' compliant mortgages.

It is right to challenge the worst excesses of the PC thought police. But many who use the specious phrase 'It's political correctness gone mad' hark back to days when racial prejudice and harrassment was tolerated rather than the more enlightened and diverse company culture we have now.

Blogfan said...

Yeah tell the world cybercitizens.
It is freedom or fascism as simple as that.

Anonymous said...

Orange have never used the slogan 'It's good to talk'.

It was originally used by BT.

A similar slogan 'It's good to talk, but sometimes it's better to text' was cheekily employed by Vodafone some years later.

Charles Martel said...

good god. have you read the comments by "A.Murphy" in that conservative home blog.

its like a re-run of the left wing blindness to Stalin's atrocities - only this time, its Islamism.

i wont even bother fisking it - most of you folks can mentally fisk it so easily.

ian said...

PS. If you cherish free speech, perhaps you should use your influence to get comments re-opened on the original piece?

Charles Martel said...

for the record, i actually thought this chaps posting was hilarious - and bang on too. trouble is - he was a bit of a twat for posting his image up and not doing it anonymously.

Anonymous said...

[Inigo] 'Finally, there is the language of race and rights activists, part of the rainbow coalition of charities, pressure groups and human-rights lawyers. Between them, these contributors have built a whole new linguistic system to communicate with each other - and us. '

Reading between the lines of this, and other comments, Inigo seems to give the impression he has no time for human rights, that the police shouldn't prioritise racist crime, and that efforts to implement a diverse workforce [i.e. remove prejudice from recruitment] are not his cup of tea. He also has a facile argument that the misuse of language is a monopoly of the left - maybe he needs to speak to David Cameron if that is the case.

Tone made me do it - he's a bad influence said...

(my real name is Mark Thompson and I am Director General of the BBC).

Here's a couple of joke definitions I heard in the pub last night:

Multi-cultural - All culture is valid - unless Western in some way. Usually to be 'celebrated' and always found to be 'vibrant'. See 'diversity'.

Islamophobic - anyone who objects to having their transport blown up on the way to work.





That should do it.

Churchill said...

For some, freedom of speech seems to have become a freedom to take offence at and seek to suppress the freedom of speech of others. Just as human rights represent the means by which some individuals seek to justify their personal antisocial behavioural standards rather than respect the human rights of the many.

Just as health and safety officials ...... no, no, I must not risk RSI by typing too much.

Anonymous said...

Disproportionate - foreign affairs: Describes any act by USA or Israel. [Yeah, right]

Diversity - creating a workforce based on how people look rather than on their skills or aptitude
[What, like the previous situation where most workers were white, even if some of them were crap?]

Anonymous said...

It's fascinating to watch self-righteous PC types like Ian and the obtuse Charles Martel defending Orange as it ritually immolates itself in obeisance to Muslim extremists.

"Job specifications" my arse. This is about free speech in a parliamentary democracy.

Anonymous said...

Hate-crime - same as 'normal' crime as far as victims are concerned - but much more distressing for Lefties. [Did the Steven Lawrence enquiry achieve anything ??]

Islamophobic - anyone who objects to having their transport blown up on the way to work.

[I appreciate this was a 'joke' but don't give up the day job..]

Verity said...

To all those politically correct naive posters who had palpitations because he's "a community affairs officer" - why have you been so brainwashed that you automatically think "community" means "muslim community" as has been hammered into you by the Left?

There are 58m people in Britain. That, I assume, is, for the most part, the community to which Inigo is hired to interact with.

Please tell me in his job description where it says "Muslim community". Where?

"The company is probably well within its rights to sack him - as his words have potentially damaged the company's standing within the community". What community, Ian?

"considering that he's a "Community affairs spokesman" - basically a PR guy - then I cant blame Orange for suspending him." What community, Charles
Martel?

"I'm with Charles Martel (8.34pm). This guy is supposed to be a Community Affairs Spokesman..." What community, Red Tamarin?

If, by the word community, we assume that is the community at large - 60m people, of whom around 2m are Islamics, leaving 58m who are not, why are you all quoting the word "community" with such perfervid conviction? Is this another word that you have allowed the Left to highjack? If so, shame on you.

Frankly, I will bet the 'Fed-up with Islamics Community' in Britain numbers one hell of a lot more than 2m.

Anonymous said...

NGO - Non Governmental Organisation – the repository of all moral authority in Lefty World and whose words and motives may never be questioned
[Even when they have opposing views, come now Inigo, you can do better than that]

Palestinians - archetype 'victims' no matter how many teenagers they murder in bars and fast food outlets. Never responsible for anything they do – or done in their name - because of 'root causes' or ‘legitimate grievances’.

[Not that you would ever resort to cheap stereotypes or anything..]

chatterbox said...

Iain, a thoughtful and measured post which hopefully most people will read in full before passing judgement on a man's career.
Saw this mentioned yesterday and followed a link to the discussion forum on MPACUK.
Luckily like you I bothered to read the whole article in CONTEXT on ConHom.
Have to say that I found some comments on the MPACUK's discussion forum regarding this uncomfortable.

Anonymous said...

Racist - means "shut up!" - and is much, much worse than being violent, thoughtless or unkind. In fact, easily the worst crime ever conceived of.
[Oh, yes, let's rehabilitate it, it's had a bad press..]


Relevant - education: something badly written, with references to sex and full of swear-words. Always better than literature by 'dead white people'.

[Crikey, I bet a trip to the cinema with you is a laugh..]

Monty said...

Charles, I don't think it should matter that Inigo Wilson is a Community Affairs Spokesman for Orange.

He wrote the article (whether people like the article or not) as a private individual. His job should only be a factor if he asserted his position with Orange for publicity purposes, or if he claimed the piece reflected the views of Orange. He didn't do either.

The distasteful thing about this matter is that someone has deliberately sought to find out about Mr Wilson's working life so they could attack him by going to his employer.

By stating they are Orange customers and are unhappy with Mr Wilson's extracurricular activities, they make an implied threat that refusal on the part of Orange to discipline Mr Wilson could result in Muslims possibly boycotting the company. That kind of blackmail is unacceptable but typical of the MPACUK.

Iain Dale said...

Just as a word of warning - anyone posting anonymously on this thread is likely to have their comment deleted. I won't tolerate abusive language.

Anonymous said...

A brilliant definition, slightly recast:

Islamophobic: An ordinary citizen who is afraid that his public transport will be blown up on the way to work.

It has the harsh ring of truth. This one will run and run. It will be in the OED in no time, as it deserves, to the consternation of anyone on the Left of politics.

Charles Martel said...

"It's fascinating to watch self-righteous PC types like Ian and the obtuse Charles Martel defending Orange as it ritually immolates itself in obeisance to Muslim extremists. Job specifications my arse. This is about free speech in a parliamentary democracy."

you're missing the point - if the guys job was nothing to do with PR , then i'd be with you all the way.

but his job was "community affairs spokesman". THATS why i think what he did was incredibly stupid - and if Orange think that its brought them into disrepute, then who are we to restrict the freedom of Orange to do so?

he's not only pissed off the Muslims , but i would suspect that he's pissed off the Guardianista and Independent brigade.

Not a good idea if you are working in PR for a mass market company that sells to a broad range of people.

please dont get me wrong - i'm not defending the jumped up Islamofascists of MPAC - i'm just defending the freedom of companies to hire and fire.

Anonymous said...

Stereotype - any attempt to describe the general characteristics of a group favoured by Lefties.

[Everyone living in the countryside is a thick hooray henry who spends their days hunting, fishing and shooting. Oh, and they're favoured by Lefties]

Anonymous said...

Terrorist - no such thing. Only people suffering from ‘root causes’ and ‘legitimate grievances’.

[Sadly, Inigo, Government legislation has now allowed this word to be used for anyone using their right to peaceful protest e.g. in favour of animal testing]

Steve G said...

Verity, of course He can do anything the hell he likes, within the law, in his own time; the question is what Orange should do in their shareholders' best interests.

MPAC, I agree, are being totally unreasonable; however, I'd have doubts about general suitability for his role of a PR chap who managed to offend a group of actual or potential customers. His mistake, I think, was to describe himself as 'manag[ing] community affairs for a large telecoms company', which, combined with the picture of himself he helpfully provided, he must have known inevitably, and unnecessarily, ran the risk of generating unfavourable publicity for his employers. Not a smart way for a PR guy to behave (and I don't think 'but I generated the unfavourable publicity on my own time' really cuts it as an excuse).

That having been said, a brief apology for any offence he's caused by his clearly light-hearted article ought be the end of the matter, at least as far as MPAC is concerned.

Out of interest, what would folks' reaction be if the 'Community Affairs Spokesman' of a large PLC expressed his view, writing in a private capacity on a political website, that President Ahmadinejad had the right idea and that the holocaust was probably a myth? Obviously the degree of offence caused would be far greater, but presumably the free speech principles involved would be the same.

Anonymous said...

Social exclusion - where bad people, behaving badly, somehow became our fault.

[If you are saying you are in favour of increasing poverty and limiting life chances have the bottle to say so]

South Africa - a national showcase for Lefty policies with a one-party state, some of the worst crime levels in the world, tragic AIDS mortality and declining economy.

[Yeah, bring back apartheid and lock up that Nelson Mandela, that should sort out your problems]

Stereotype - any attempt to describe the general characteristics of a group favoured by Lefties.

[All country dwellers are thick, lazy, hooray henrys who spend all day foxhunting, fishing &shooting. Oh, and they're favoured by Leftys]

ian said...

(Anon, 9:41) Self righteous and PC : disagreeing with posters too cowardly to put a name to their opinions.

Is that you, Inigo?

Verity asks "What community"? Who knows what community? Did I say the muslim community? It wasn't me who gave him his job title. But as an Orange customer, I might rightly assume that community includes me, and as you might correctly surmise from my name, I'm not a muslim.

If Wilson had any sense, he would have asked ConservativeHome to pull the article when the furore became apparent. CH must share some of the blame, as they, presumably, identified him as community affairs spokesman, and by implication, made that relevant to the article.

Charles Martel said...

"The distasteful thing about this matter is that someone has deliberately sought to find out about Mr Wilson's working life so they could attack him by going to his employer."

Monty - the job certainly IS relevant to this case.

as i have said above, if the guy was a call centre worker, or an engineer -then no problem. i would defend him to the hilt.

but his job means that he needs to be a bit more tight lipped. thats just the nature of PR. that is all.

however, i personally hope he isnt fired.a slap on the wrist , or a move to another job should suffice - people do make mistakes.

Verity said...

This man does not deserve to be hounded out of his job. Can you imagine if he had written something along similar lines targetting characteristics of the Scots or Welsh? Would people have come thundering in crying, "Oh! He's a community spokesman! He has no right to his views! He must be sacked forthwith!"

You know they wouldn't. Because the Scots and Welsh may get huffy and make a few snide remarks about the English among themselves and have a mean chuckle, but then they'd forget about it.

I was going to add that they would not go into cardiac arrest - but then the Muslim Whatever [acronym here] doesn't either. It is manufactured outrage, folks.

The Druid said...

The irony of this is almost sublime. A protest at the way language is being mangled results in a complaint about the way language is being used. Go figure as they say in the States.

Orange will no doubt find themselves out of pocket when the dust settles. Even a cack-handed lawyer could make a go of this case. While of course you can waive you right to freedom of speech under contract, for example promising not to reveal company secrets, the comments he made are political and of a different order. There is high judicial authority that such comments are political speech and thus deserving of the most stringent protection.

Besides no one is suggesting that he has committed an offence under the criminal law are they? If there was even a whiff of that it would have resulted in complaints to the police. No is a simple case of intimidation of the sort we have seen before. Say something that someone finds insulting and the heavens fall. Free speech is being chilled to freezing point in the UK because someone takes offence. If in a democracy we cannot use wit in public debate about issues of national concern then we are finished. Oh to have the American First Amendment!

Incidentially a phobia is a fear of something. Reasonable people may be forgiven for fearing what young Muslim males will do next in the name of their religion, espically on transport systems. That is not anti-Islam. Just a statement of fact. 9/11, Madrid and 7/7 were all committed by young muslim males. In fact weren't the plotters of last week young muslim males? No silly me they were Amish-Israelis working for the CIA deep undercover.

PoliticalHack said...

It has been clearly established within employment case law that things you do outside work time can be reason for disciplinary action if it may bring your employer into disrepute.

Orange are exactly correct to describe suspension as a neutral act. It is quite common and I've had to suspend people pending investigation only to reinstate them following an investigation.

I also think that if this bloke was a salesman in a store or an engineer, Orange wouldn't care too much and MPAC wouldn't have been able to identify him. He isn't, he's a PR man for Orange (community affairs is usually code for dealing with local protestors and councils to get mobile phone masts erected) and he should know better.

If he gets himself sacked, perhaps he can get a job writing for Jim Davidson.

dizzy said...

Damn it! I found that thread by MPAC the other night when I was working alnight but forgot to blog it.

Utterly discraceful on the part of Orange and MPAC really.

Anonymous said...

Matthew Paris wrote an excellent article in the Times some months ago on the place of humour in challenging beliefs: So they have thin skins. That shouldn’t stop us poking fun at them

In it he concludes:

...Structures of oppression that may not be susceptible to rational debate may in the end yield to derision. When people see that a priest, rabbi, imam or uniformed official may be giggled at without lightning striking the impertinent, arguments may be won on a deeper level than logic.

We should never, therefore, relinquish, nor lightly value, our right not to argue in the face of other people’s gods — but to fart.

leon said...

CY weighs in on this, picking up on the potential PR problem for the new Tory image: http://www.chickyog.net/2006/08/16/but-i-will-defend-to-the-death-your-right-to-be-a-smug-humourless-little-cockstain/

Verity said...

I think Inigo was foolish. I think the MCAP or whatever it's called - who cares? - is vicious. They got hold of this issue and salivated. And they pumped it up with their normal malice, trying to wrongfoot the British in our own country.

I think that suspending Inigo is way over the top and will make them far more enemies than sacking him, or humiliating him, will make them friends among this shadowy "Muslim community" that all these outfits claim to speak for. Why has Orange "suspended" him? I'd be interested in the harm they think he is going to do.

I think what he wrote was not funny, but only because it was laboured and plodding. But he had a right to write it.

BTW, why are there no Muslim comedians in Britain?

Iain Dale said...

Verity - there are several Muslim comedians - including a very funny female one whose name I can't recall.

Verity said...

There are Muslim comedians in Britain, including a woman! That is heartening indeed, Iain!

Steve G said...

Iain, are you thinking of either Shappi Khorsandi or Shazia Mirza?

Anonymous said...

Yara El-Sherbini !! She did the excellent book 'Sheik 'n Vac'.

I will provide a couple of her jokes, and Verity can judge..

Anonymous said...

Y E-s -

Q- What do Islam and Capitalism have in common ?


A- A fundamental belief in profits.

nsfl said...

Verity, you're extremely lucky to have missed out on this woman. I had no such luck.

Monty said...

Charles:
"as i have said above, if the guy was a call centre worker, or an engineer -then no problem. i would defend him to the hilt. but his job means that he needs to be a bit more tight lipped. thats just the nature of PR. that is all."

Thanks for your reply Charles but I think we are going to have to agree to differ. I do not think in this case that it is fair for someone to more or less culpable because of their job role. I would agree with you wholeheartedly if Mr Wilson had been speaking in his capacity as a spokesman or using his position to get attention. But that was not the case.

I think it would be wrong for people to be precluded from writing satire or having a private view about something in their own time just because their job role is client/public facing. Remember it was not Mr Wilson who mentioned Orange or identified his employer, it was Mr Wilson's detractors.

The only reason Orange have been dragged into this is because someone was vindictive enough to dig for information on Mr Wilson, identify his employer, then set about doing what they could to blackmail the employer in the hope Mr Wilson loses his job.

Among the many words I have for the actions of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee I will stick with the most polite - disproportionate.

Anonymous said...

Y E-s :

Knock Knock

Who's There?

Mosque

Mosque who ?

I'm a Muslim, not a Communist

Anonymous said...

Y E-s

Woman One
There's a mosque in Bournemouth

Woman Two
In Dorset ?

Woman One
I would, it's very good

[That's enough - Ed]

ian said...

If it didn't matter that he was a "community affairs spokesman" for a "large telecoms firm", why introduce him as such on the post? Typing "Inigo Wilson" into Google is hardly digging, more scratching the surface.

If it had been introduced as "Inigo Wilson is a clanging bell", then it would be different. ConHome must take some of the blame for this, I think.

Charles Martel said...

"BTW, why are there no Muslim comedians in Britain?"

omar marzouk - danish-egyptian

however , he is one of the very very few.

the jewish community is way smaller worldwide, and yet , how much comedy has come out of them? bucketloads...

but you have a point, i grant you that.

islam has a serious "cant laugh at itself" problem.

Charles Martel said...

"Remember it was not Mr Wilson who mentioned Orange or identified his employer, it was Mr Wilson's detractors."

i think you are coming at it from a different angle - in terms of , how much should big corporates control our everyday lives *AFTER* the end of the working day?

is that a bigger threat to freedom than the jumped up MPAC crowd? maybe it is.

the recent stories about a Dublin company not hiring smokers, *and* being allowed to do so is a worrying precident. the next thing you'll have is not hiring people who drink alchohol.

then you'll have random drug tests.
then random alchohol/nicotine tests.
then ultimately, DNA screening...

step by step - you get less freedom... i really do worry about where this is all heading.

Tone made me do it - he's a bad influence said...

Judging by the number of anonymous, bating, comments on this thread, there must be some late night tax-payer funded project going on somewhere in central London. I wonder what crap your thinking up tonight "because the matrix has been freed up".

Is the mid-night oil being burned in a nu lab/think tank somewhere? -now its past 12, no doubt, you have all f..., gone home because its late enough to get a "freebie" taxi back paid for, in part by yours truly.

Remember, when the revolution comes
you'll be the first to be forced to unblock the drum of a Massey Ferguson 525, when its been combining flattened Oats, after a thunder storm, at f****ing 1.30 in the morning.

So there.

Anonymous said...

Check out the MPACUK forums! Currently they have campaigns running against Richard Madely, Newsnight, the Spectator website, Harold Evans on Guardian "Comment is Free" and Julie Birchill. Don't they have day jobs?

Charles Martel said...

case in point about the loss of freedom - from , all of places, the independent

front cover of the Indie today says

"3,032 new offenses since 1997"

thats about 1 new crime a day, put into legislation, since Blair came to power.


Which begs the question - how the hell did the Victorians manage their empire without those "crimes"?

Fred said...

Verity, I got the same reply as Andrew, and this is what I sent back:-

Stuart,

I don't regard suspension as anything other than a punative action. A truely neutral act would be to allow the employee to remain in post while you conducted your 'enquiry' but why you should deem an enquiry necessary is beyond me. Are you employees not allowed the basic rights of freedom of speech that the rest of us are supposed to enjoy? It's not as if the poor guy spoke for Orange or even mentioned the company name.

Please do update me of the results of your investigation.

CuriousHamster said...

Iain, I doubt you're alone in finding the use of the word "Jihad" alarming. There are plenty more people just like you who don't know what it means either. And I like how you've quoted "non-violent" but then implied that they mean the opposite. Top spinning there. What's your definition of Islamophobia?

But on the wider point, I agree. MPAC have reacted appallingly. This Inigo might be an idiot but he doesn't deserve to be sacked.

I suspect he probably will be though. Even Guido admits that it's the what he'd do in a similar circumstance. In that, his job is relevant. Orange are likely to take the view that this episode demonstrates that he isn't the man for the job. It's the free market in action and stuff.

silexscintillans said...

Two points:

- Wilson is/was community affairs officer for Orange. His position becomes untenable as soon as there is the slightest sniff of anything potentially untoward. Orange have to consider the impressions sent out as well as the reality of the matter. There is a direct analogy with Danny Kruger being "fired" as PPC for Sedgefield for using the phrase "creative destruction" in relation to the NHS. There was no way Kruger could have fought a credible campaign, despite the fact that he had done nothing wrong in reality. Similarly, a community affairs officer loses all credibility by making a statement that could in any way be construed as prejudiced.

- The word "jihad" needs to be more fully understood, especially by our (future) legislators; the Wikipedia article is well informed, if slightly poorly written. In brief: "Jihad, [...] is an Islamic term [...] which connotes a wide range of meanings: anything from an inward spiritual struggle to attain perfect faith to a political or military struggle to further the Islamic cause. [...] Jihad has a negative connotation and reputation in much of the West, on par with the reaction to the Christian term crusade in much of the Islamic world."

the jabberwock said...

From:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/012704.php#comments

I regret to inform you that this weblog and some of its comments have been
identified as potentially Islamophobic. Under European Union Directive DCLXVI
it is compulsory for all contributors to take the following Islamophia test
immediately:

YOU MAY BE AN ISLAMOPHOBE IF...

(1) You refer to the midwinter holiday as 'Christmas'.

(2) You save loose change in a p***y-bank.

(3) You allow your children to read unexpurgated versions of Winnie the Pooh.

(4) You doubt whether it's politically correct to stone rape victims.

(5) You believe that the earth is round.

(6) You think there's something weird about a 50 year old man marrying a six
year old girl.

(7) Your children have Barbie dolls or Teddy Bears

(8) You object to being a second class citizen in your own country.

(9) You fail to celebrate cultural diversity when your daughter is gang-raped
for not wearing a headscarf.

(10) You think government policy should be determined by your elected
representatives rather than a howling mob.

(11) You object to your taxes being used to support people who are plotting to
kill you.

(12) You aren't convinced that 'Jihad' means 'Inner Spiritual Struggle'.

(13) You don't understand why the Jews must be exterminated.

(14) You allow your children to play with LEGO.

(15) You aren't married to at least one of your cousins.

(16) You sometimes have doubts about BBC reporting.

(17) You occasionally wonder what's inside those walking tents.

(18) You realise that taqiyya is not a Mexican beverage.

(19) You believe moderate Muslims ride unicorns.

(20) You don't appreciate the multicultural need for Methodist grandmothers to
be body-cavity searched before boarding aircraft.

(21) You claim to understand the words "Slay the unbelievers wherever you find
them", even though you don't speak Arabic.

(22) You object to taxpayers' money being spent for terrorists to hold a
festival to commemorate the anniversary of their massacres.

(23) You have reservations about 'faith schools' where the kids will be taught
that you and your family are najis (excrement), at public expense.

(24) You don't understand why flying your country's flag has become a
hate-crime.

(25) You don't appreciate why it is so insensitive and offensive for the police
to prevent oppressed minorities venting their frustration by mass murder.


EVALUATING YOUR SCORE
How many of the questions did you answer 'YES' ?

On a scale of 0 to 25

0 you are a Dhimmi
1 to 5 you are a Najis Kaffir
6 to 10 you are an Islamophobe
11 to 15 you are a Thought Criminal
16 to 20 you are an Enemy of Allah
21 to 25 you are a Zionist Crusader offspring of pigs and monkeys.

Fatwas are automatically awarded for all scores above 5

Fatwas will be posted in plain brown paper envelopes in laminated or embossed
styles, generously sprinkled with ricin, anthrax, sarin or cobalt-60

Posted by: savitch at August 15, 2006 07:41 PM

Steve G said...

Charles Martel asks how the hell did the Victorians manage their empire without those "crimes"?.

Well, some of the new crimes weren't a problem for the Victorians. Don't you feel safer knowing that the Nuclear Explosions (Prohibition and Inspections) Act 1998 outlaws 'Causing a nuclear explosion'? It carries a life sentence, apparently, but I don't think the Sentencing Guidelines people have yet set a minimum tariff (with a third off, presumably, for a prompt guilty plea).

I'm not sure if a full life tariff would be justified, but it clearly would need to be something more than a slap on the wrist or there'd be no deterrent value.

Anonymous said...

As a Community Affairs Manager for an international telecoms group with a presence around the globe, Mr. Wilson is extremely naïve to believe that posting such comments on a prominent website would not invoke a hostile response.

Having considered the facts, Mr. Wilson must be dismissed by his employer for the following reasons:

(1) Whilst we should all uphold freedom of speech, that freedom must be exercised responsibly. Following the official definition of racism, Mr. Wilson’s comments can clearly be defined as racist. They may also be an incitement to racial hatred. As such, there may be grounds for a criminal prosecution.

(2) His comments may be regarded as offensive to a variety of communities including followers of Islam, Palestinians, South Africans and Roman Catholics. As such, in addition to being considered racist in the former (presumably a breach of his terms of employment), he will be unable to effectively carry out his duties in fostering good relations with such groups, thus further breaching his terms of employment.

(3) His comments may be regarded as offensive to other groups such as teachers, social workers, employees of NGO’s, those who would describe themselves as socialists and so forth. Indeed his views are not exclusively offensive to these groups, and may be considered offensive to all those who espouse tolerance and respect – from all communities and all walks of life. This further enforces the breach of terms of employment raised above.

(4) The author appears to condone racism by asserting to be a racist is deemed as being “much worse than being violent, thoughtless or unkind” - placing him at odds with his employer and contract of employment.

(5) This is added to by his comments on hate crime.

(6) Wilson’s comments in relation to equality, diversity and gender issues will likewise be at odds with his employer and breach his contract of employment.

(7) Responsible, I read, for consultation with communities, Mr. Wilson describes same as “a formal system for ignoring public views while patronising them at the same time.” This statement places him at odds with his employer and his duties, thus again breaching his contract of employment.

(8) Comments relating to the BBC and media ensure relationships in this area are likewise compromised, thus breaching terms of employment.

The above, combined, ensure Mr. Wilson will be unable to continue to perform the duties of his role. By HIS actions, (many of which will counter his employers’ policies) HE ALONE has made himself unable to fulfil his role and thus contract of employment with Orange.

Remember, it was Mr. Wilson who indirectly referenced his employer by his introduction: “Inigo Wilson manages community affairs for a large telecoms company.” He also made comments in relation to both a colleague and a discussion within his organisation.

Again, whilst we all should seek to uphold freedom of expression, such expression must be exercised responsibly and within the legal framework of the UK. What is remarkable is that such a prominent and educated figure did not recognise the above, and how his comments would be interpreted by others (the key legal factor), regardless of the context in which they were intended.

It is also regrettable that because of his action, his employer, Orange, is now at the centre of a debate on which it has no desire to enter. Here Orange cannot win. Its actions will be no different to any other organisation caught in the same position – Vodafone, 02 or others. To think otherwise is foolhardy.

What is certain is that the reputation of his employer, its brand, customer relations and commercial activity will be damaged regardless of the outcome – further strengthening the requirement to dismiss Mr. Wilson.

Sadly the future looks bleak for not only Mr. Wilson, but for his employer, good community relations and all those who recognise greater understanding, mutual respect and humanity is the only future for our world.

Anonymous said...

Well Inigo will have plenty of time to play with his toy tank:

http://www.accurate-armour.com/gallery1.cfm?id=84&navlevel=2

Wonder if it's called Tommy? ;)

Anonymous said...

To quote this guy, who writes well:

"Islamophobic - anyone who objects to having their transport blown up on the way to work.

Israel - see 'disproportionate' and 'legitimate grievances'. Country the size of Wales, with 5m inhabitants, that is entirely responsible for any and all delinquent Islamist behaviour the world over."

I don't disagree with any of the above, but I can see how the "Completely Moderate British Moslems Who Just Want to See Israel Wiped Off the Face of the Map" might be against him.

Shame he works for a self-serving company like Orange in a PR job, Orange are a "family-friendly" company which means they give accounts to about five million illegal muslim immigrants no questions asked. If you don't believe me, check into any Orange shop in central London and check out the clientele.

Jihad is Jihad but business is business. When the war begins, people like the managing director of Orange can be arraigned for treason. Until then we have to put up with this crap.

red tamarin said...

"I'm with Charles Martel (8.34pm). This guy is supposed to be a Community Affairs Spokesman..." What community, Red Tamarin?

verity (9.48) - you'd tell me that there's no such thing as society as well?

You are trolling, and you know it. Community can be the whole country, but it also means the different religious (e.g.Muslims), ethnic (e.g.Poles) and geographical(e.g.residents of Tunbridge Wells) communities.

Inigo Wilson has a job that involves him understanding the needs of different communities in relation to his company - Muslims might not want access to XXX services available on their mobiles, Poles might want some Polish language instructions with their handsets, and Tunbridge Wells residents might not want a new mobile mast erected in their area. His job is to understand these people and feed their needs into the company.

Offending any of these communities, whether he meant it or not, doesn't make him or Orange look good.

Frankly, I will bet the 'Fed-up with Islamics Community' in Britain numbers one hell of a lot more than 2m.

Oh, tyranny of the majority then? Simply because more people (so you assert, with no proof whatsoever) dislike Muslims than there are Muslims in the country gives us the right to treat them as second class citizens? Infringe their human rights? If you believe in democracy...hell, if you even know what it means...you'd stop peddling this clap-trap.

La Boheme said...

That A.Murphy is one scary person. Is she for real? She has to be a wind-up surely?

Rick said...

If Orange buckle on this they will be forced into censoring Wanadoo next

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:01 on Orange's Muslim clientele - quite right. A senior police officer friend told me that the Islamofaschist Wahids that they arrested not so long ago nearly all had Orange mobiles; identity checks are more relaxed and no questions asked. Orange - the bombers phone.

Anonymous said...

Coun Graham Smith seems to have made a very measured post on this subject over at ConservativeHome this morning.

Bagehot said...

You are either in favour of the free market, or you are not.

As a free agent, the company is at liberty to sack him on demand. As a free agent, Inigo - if he doesn't like his current terms of employment - is free to take his skills elsewhere.

Adrian Yalland said...

Given Inigo's position, he was unwise to publish it in his name (PR types have to be very careful about NOT becoming the story).

However, what he says is correct. So I have therefore today written to Orange threatening to discontinue my contract with them unless Inigo is immediately reinstated. Freedom of choice and freedom of speech defending one another!

However, some suggested changes to this seminal work!

Educationalist: Used to be known as 'a teacher', and used to 'teach'. However, they now 'educate' and spend their time 'instilling values' and establishing a way of thinking which fits the requirements of an (unknowing) left-thinking adult!

Hate Crime: Same as normal crime, except where the victim is from a 'visible ethnic or sexual minority' and (a) the perpetrator is not, or is white and male, or (b) the vicytom 'feels' (without any need to prove the validity of the feeling) that the crime was committed because s/he is black/gay/Muslim/a dwarf etc! I was once mugged in Brixton, and tried to report a 'Mobile Phone Hate Crime', but they told me it was fault I was mugged as I had the audacity to answer a ringing phone in a public place (what is the point of having a mobile phone if you cannot answer it?)

Islamophobic: Anyone who doesn't feel that (a) Islamofaschicts have a right to carry out their religious intentions to impose a Talibanesque form of government on the whole world, or (b) anyone who doesn't agree that British Muslims (even those born here) have a duty, at the same time as freely practising their religion and their culture, to none the less, learn to speak and write English properly, become independent of the state and financially successful through hard work, send their kids to university (and a better future) and 'integrate' into wider British Society and become 'beacon' ethnic minority communities! or (c) anyone who feels that the current inner city 'ghettoes' which many Muslim communities are confined (or confine themselves) to are bad news for a better society! Anyone can be an Islamophobe, even those such as myself who have dozens of Muslim freinds, and who have no objection to authentic moderate Islam!

Israel: The only non-legitimate and terrorist state in the middle east and the source of all global conflicts, the growth of global Islamofaschism, and the real reason why youths from Bradford shave their beards off, strap explosives to their chests and blow up trains - obviously!

Nazi: Anyone who doesn't agree with us on every issue. This includes anyone who votes Tory, drives a 4WD, hunts, eats meat, uses pornography (of the non-gay variety), goes to church and feels employment should be based upon ability not skin colour. The biggest Nazis are in fact, the Jews - obviously!

Palestinians: Innocent people who were building a successful and prosperous desert community until the horrid British and the nasty Jews came and took it all away, locked them all up and threw away the key. Since then, all efforts by the peace loving Palestinians - to make peace with Israel, have been rebuffed, and resulted in Israel making numerous unprovoked attacks against the their peaceful neighbours, who have done nothing to instigate their wrath of Israel, and are not at all committed to seeing Israel's destruction!

Issues Around: Bolloxspeak which has replaced the need for people to say "this situation means...."

Adrian Yalland said...

OK - I have now read all the threads! As a public relations person who has done the job that Inigo has done (not for Orange though), the following needs to be noted:

1. He will almost be contractually bound to not bring his employers into disrepute through anything he says or writes publicly. This will almost certianly include anything he says in a private capacity, and will certianly include comments which contradict the position adopted by his employer on 'community/gender/race' issues, which as a Community Spokesperson, he is paid to publicly defend.

2. Not withstanding his position, everything he says is true, and if he feels it, he should probably look for another job

3. Freedom of Speech shouldn't be curtailed by corporates any more than than it should by Governments or pressure groups. But the reality is, it often is, and to get around this, he should have published anonymoulsy or under a nom de plume!

4. He will probably be offered some form of settlement from Orange in order to enable them to buy him off, and replace him with a PR type who reads and believes the Guardain/Indepedent!

5. Orange will get some flack for its stance, but those with any nouse understand they are in an invidious position!

6. The PAC are a nuisence, and apologists for terrorists and murderers. Sue me if you want!

7. Anonymous bloggers should have the courage to put their name on their postings!

Mary Adams said...

I think Inigo Wilson should do the decent thing and resign. He has caused his employers a big enough headache already. Enough is enough Inigo. Just go.

SteveG said...

Red tamarin writes Community can be the whole country, but it also means the different religious (e.g.Muslims), ethnic (e.g.Poles) and geographical(e.g.residents of Tunbridge Wells) communities.

How would he reply, I wonder, to Chris Dillow's point over in Stumbling and Mumbling that We are a diverse group of individuals. Foreigners are all the same. So we think there's a single "Muslim community" - an image fostered by rent-seeking "community leaders."
This leads to absurdities like Blair's call to "mobilise the Islamic community" to defeat terrorism. To see the cretinism of this, ask: why doesn't Polly Toynbee to use her influence to curb the rhetorical excesses of the Devil's Kitchen? After all, they're both members of the secular liberal community, of which she's a prominent leader.


While I can see the point of Orange's having a 'Community Affairs Spokesman' to sell the benefits to the residents of Tunbridge Wells of having a mast erected there, the other examples RT gives -- services that Muslim or Polish customers may or may not require -- are surely more the province of the sales and marketing people.

verity said...

the druid said: "Incidentially a phobia is a fear of something. Reasonable people may be forgiven for fearing what young Muslim males will do next in the name of their religion, espically on transport systems."

No, a phobia is an irrational fear of something. Agoraphobia - an irrational fear of open spaces. Ailurophobia - fear of cats.

Islamophobia is a misnomer because fear of what the hell Muslims are going to do next is not irrational.

anonymous - of course - 3:29 a.m. I said earlier that there vast numbers more people in Britain who will agree with Inigo and who are sick to death of Islamic whining than there are Muslims in this country. His employer will gain, rather than suffer. So they lose some Islamics. Big bloody deal. Two million Muslims. How many of them are children too young to have a phone? Around a million judging from the number of pushchairs wheeled by black ambulatory tents in their "demonstrations". How many (fairly) normal people in Britain? 58m. How many Islamics on welfare so have no need of a mobile phone except to call from the couch to the kitchen and demand mint tea? The number of potential Islamic customers against the number of British customers is tiny.

CityUnslicker said...

All a pretty pass this is.

1. This was meant to be ajoke and that has been lost in this whipped up storm. However, this always is an results in many successful workplace discrimnation cases where it is about how people react to what is said, not what was said done etc.

2. I also think Inigo should have taken out the offending comments; they are gratuitously offensice. Also if you do upset people it is polite to say sorry.

3. The danger is the wider impact of the failed legal profession (read MP's) on our lives and actions at work and home as regards our ability to express ourselves. Exactly what Inigo was parodying!

Verity said...

"verity (9.48) - you'd tell me that there's no such thing as society as well?" What makes you infer that, red tamaran? What exactly motivated you to write that I would tell you there is no such thing as society? From what cliff did you make this bizarre leap? (BTW, Mrs Thatcher said: "There is no such thing as society. Only individuals."

However, thank you for your somewhat prolix Introduction to Marketing for 12-Year Olds.

Your arguments are predictable and illustrative of the feel-good, judgemental moral superiority of the emotion-driven Left.

From a purely capitalistic point of view, whether this has a negative effect or a positive effect on Orange, Inigo was foolish to identify himself as the author of an article that he knew was incendiary. He could have written it under a pseudonym and not left clues about the identity of his employer.

OTOH, this would never have come to anyone's attention had not MPAC seized upon it and blown it out of its context to serve their dreary purpose. The article was instantly forgettable until the Muslim self-promotion community seized upon it.

verity said...

city unslicker: "2. I also think Inigo should have taken out the offending comments; they are gratuitously offensice. Also if you do upset people it is polite to say sorry."

I hope you're not serious.

The worm has turned said...

2nd Anonymous of 9:41 PM - don't you mean 'prostrate'? Immolate means to set oneself on fire.

Selina said...

Verity: "The number of potential Islamic customers against the number of British customers is tiny."

You ARE a little islander, aren't you Verity?

Orange is not a British corporation. The CEO is not British, most of the chief executives here in Britain are not, most of the staff worldwide are not, most of the customers worldwide are not.

Verity said...

Selina, I had barely heard of Orange before it was mentioned here. I seem to remember a tagline, "The future's bright; the future's orange" or something from a long time ago.

If it's got an international customer base, I somehow intuit that Inigo's job didn't include community relations for the entire world. I'm guessing that this was just for his area of Britain. I believe his right to freedom of speech against the employers' right to not being embarrassed by an identifiable employee in Britain is what we were discussing?

CityUnslicker said...

re Verity;

I was being serious; even if my spelling left something to be desired.

Inigo not apologising has led to a greater furore than was entirely necessary. I hope it does'nt cost the poor fella his job.

Also not apologising does rather imply the writer agrees with what was written. Surely the thrust is that this was all a joke; no offence WAS intended?

Selina said...

I wonder if the Paris office are also voicing an opinion.

It will be interesting to see what decision Orange come to. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Wilson decided to "resign".

Steve G said...

Verity, he's certainly got a right to freedom of speech, but exercising a right normally, at least for adults, involves being prepared to take the consequences of so doing, does it not? If MCAP or anyone else want to exercise their right to freedom of speech by complaining about any offence they claim they've been caused, I'm sure you wouldn't want to prevent them.

Similarly, Orange have the right to take (or not take), within the bounds of employment law, whatever action they think is in the company's best interests (including telling both MCAP and Mr Wilson to grow up), and their shareholders certainly have the right to expect them so to do.

You might well hope things will turn out in a particular way, but how are anyone's rights being infringed upon?

Verity said...

steve g - why did you address your comment to me? I have said I think he was foolish to append his name to his article. On the other hand, I think Orange have taken an officious, not to say cringing approach. I would have preferred to see them be more robust.

Either tell the MPAC aggressors that what an employee does in his own time, as long as it is within the law, is not within the power of the company. Or tell Inigo that they think he has damaged relations between Orange and Islamics and give him six months salary to leave.

I also don't like to see Islamic special pleading groups - and they are legion - attempting to dictate employee behaviour to companies that are owned by shareholders. I would prefer they policed the behaviour in their own communities, including murderous imams, people engaged in writing placards advising us to WAIT FOR THE REAL HOLOCAUST, excitable demonstrators, wannabee self-detonators, etc.

Verity said...

I doubt that the Paris office gives a monkey's. France doesn't have the same attitude to freedom of expression, regarding it as an Anglo-Saxon failing.

Whatever happens in this incident in Britain with regard to freedom of expression will not resonate in France.

leon said...

Sunny has just posted an update on this. Seems this has nothing to do with free speech after all:

http://www.pickledpolitics.com/archives/719

Steve G said...

Verity, thanks for the reply. I addressed my comment to you because you'd said I believe his right to freedom of speech against the employers' right to not being embarrassed by an identifiable employee in Britain is what we were discussing.

I just sought to make the point that, whatever one's views of the rights and wrongs of the situation, I didn't see how anyone's rights to free speech were being infringed. He has a perfect right to cause his employers embarassment. They have a perfect right (which I hope they won't exercise, by the way) to take exception to this because MPAC have exercised their right to complain about his comments.

They're being unreasonable, to my mind, but then I'm not the one who feels insulted; and, as I'm sure anyone who's ever been a relationship will agree, telling the other party that they're being completely unreasonable and they should stop making a fuss about nothing isn't always a smart idea.

Verity said...

Well, The Telegraph's showing its ignorance of English and its utter incompetence by headlining that he has been suspended for "racism".

I sincerely now hope that Orange sacks him for "racism", because there is absolutely no racial connotation in his article and he will be able to sue them, I hope for hundreds of thousands. Or millions would be good. They must learn that words mean what they mean, not what the Left wishes they meant.

Meanwhile, I see a woman "of Pakistani origin" has been arrested in the Tri-State area of the US for trying to board a plane with liquid explosives. (Pakistani is a nationality, not a race. Islam is a religion, not a race. Duh.)

Time to take control, folks.

Selina said...

Funny how LIQUID explosives are all the fashion now! Bottles are becoming scarey.

Cinnamon said...

Remember ARLA?

This is what Orange is afraid of.

Right now, there is no mechanism in place to deal with the muslim propaganda machine that uses mosques to tell 'their people' what to think and when to be outraged.

I think there should be a national strategy to deal with this kind of threat -- ARLA was nearly destroyed by this and the innocent hostage of a religious extremist campaign.

I don't think a random HR department should be left to deal with a full blown Islamic intimidation threat, but that there should be a stragety in place to deal with this 'soft terror' on out culture and our companies.

hannibal said...

Leon, funny they didn't come up with this argument when the original complaints came in and have only chosen to follow this line now that they find themselves between a rock and a hard place...

Verity said...

Cinammon - ARLA. I know I could Google it, and should, but I've just come in from a drink and would appreciate most awfully a one-sentence précis. Your comment sounds rather interesting.

Anonymous said...

Leon, if they really are saying it was "consultation" that caused this and not the other original accusations, why did Orange allow people to labour under the misapprehension they were responding to MPACUK's complaints and suspending him for alleged racism. I think I hear the sound of stable doors slamming as the horse bolts away down the lane...

red tamarin said...

verity (3.00) - "What makes you infer that, red tamaran? What exactly motivated you to write that I would tell you there is no such thing as society? From what cliff did you make this bizarre leap?"

I'm sorry you couldn't follow that progression. You said "what community?" and it sounded very familiar of Thatcher denying the existence of 'society'. I was simply drawing a line between the dots, nothing more.

However, thank you for your somewhat prolix Introduction to Marketing for 12-Year Olds.

Well, given your failure to cope with the mental leap required above, perhaps I should have aimed it at 8-year olds. Anyway, I'm not sure you had grasped the concept that communities don't have to be the religious and Muslim, and that Inigo Wilson would have been just as foolish for making poor quality offensive humour at the expense of any other community.

Your arguments are predictable and illustrative of the feel-good, judgemental moral superiority of the emotion-driven Left.

Delightful insults verity, but totally meaningless. If you're going to criticise, do it with some kind of substance. At the moment it's no better than playground name-calling.

From a purely capitalistic point of view, whether this has a negative effect or a positive effect on Orange, Inigo was foolish to identify himself as the author of an article that he knew was incendiary. He could have written it under a pseudonym and not left clues about the identity of his employer.

Ah, finally something we can agree upon! And I thought the day would never come! :)

OTOH, this would never have come to anyone's attention had not MPAC seized upon it and blown it out of its context to serve their dreary purpose. The article was instantly forgettable until the Muslim self-promotion community seized upon it.

I don't disagree with you there either! Whilst certainly offensive, it wasn't inciting hatred (only exposing bigotry) so it has a perfect right to exist in the public domain.

However the original point was whether Inigo should be suspended for posting it. And I still think he should, for the reasons previously discussed.

Buster George said...

The MPACUK would like to ambark on a no violent jihad, how would they react to a no violent crusade by christians,

Probably wouldn't care as long as we didn't use the george cross.

I will keep saying this, but if they don't like the way britains live then they should get out of the country. I they invested such efforts in the third world they would not feel the need to move to this country

Verity said...

red tamarind - Re"community", can't you see that the Islamonuts are trying to hijack the word?

This is why I wrote, "What community?" The particular "community" must be specified. It is not a generic word meaning "muslims". The sheer dull persistence of these individuals gives me a headache.

Cinnamon said...

Verity & others,

ARLA was the Danish company that had a huge maket in the middle east selling milkproducts.

They got boycotted due to the worldwide mohammed cartoon rage and as a result (despite not being involved at all, other than being Danish) they in essence lost all of their market share.

John Punshon said...

FYI I wrote this:
I have read the piece which rests heavily on political irony, something which goes back at least as far as Jonathan Swift. (Do you know his 'Modest Proposal'? This is an integral part of British culture to which, I reckon, the Muslim community should learn to adapt. Termination of Inigo Wilson's employment will indicate to me not only that Orange has no understanding of the culture of the country in which it is operating, but also that it has succumbed to ignorant pressure that it ought to have resisted.

-jf said...

"jihad" translates to an individual's internal struggle.

"mein kamph" translates to an individual's internal struggle.

both are used to call people to similar ends.

please, enough of this "you don't understand what 'jihad' is" tripe. we understand it perfectly well.

Anonymous said...

So let me get this straight...the Muslims can carry banners that read 'behead infidels', 'behead Bush', kill, kill, kill, etc., openly on the streets throughout England. But...if anyone dares to blog their opinion, then they are branded 'racist'. Everytime a terror alert is issued in England, here come the Islam high priests or whatever the hell they call themselves, showing up on TV and tap dancing around the fact that muslims are the ones who have created all of the terror attacks and killed thousands. Instead, they prey on all those looney left minds that actually believe that crap, really stupid people who believe all of that propaganda about foreign policy. If any dummy lefts are reading this, then check out the following dates, then remember what your fellow muslim citizens are telling you that it is because of your current foreign policy. Your once proud nation is no longer!!!
In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by:
Middle Eastern male Islamic between the ages of 17 and 40
In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich Olympics by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
During the 1980's numerous Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
Middle Eastern male Islamic between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70-year-old disabled American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2000, 17 sailors died in an attack on the USS Cole (DDG 67) in Yemen by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked -- two flown into the World Trade Centers, one into the Pentagon and one into the ground in rural Pennsylvania. They were hijacked by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2002 the United States liberated Afghanistan from:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl and other Westerners were kidnapped and beheaded by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2002, more than 330 hostages in Beslan and 130 hostages in Moscow were murdered in sieges by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2003 the United States liberated Iraq from "The Butcher of Baghdad," but most American military personnel were killed by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2004, more than 200 Spanish civilians were murdered on trains by bombs in Madrid, detonated by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
In 2005 more than 50 UK citizens were killed by bombs on trains in London, detonated by:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
Right now, Islamic terrorist cells in the United States are composed of:
Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages of 17 and 40.
Between 1970 and 2005, there were about 60 other notable examples of terrorism perpetrated by Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages 17 and 40, but we think you get the point. Singling out " Middle Eastern male Islamises between the ages 17 and 40" is not "ethnic profiling," it's "terrorist profiling" acting on prolific evidence.
Anyone for Terrorist Profiling...?

Anonymous said...

Guy gets suspended for telling the truth? Oh, you Brits....

Anonymous said...

MPACuk is the most vile offensive anti-semitic website in the UK- in my opinion. Shame on orange for bowing to their pressure. If Mr Wilson is not returned to his job, I shall cancel my contract with Orange.

Anonymous said...

As the late, great Bob Marley said 30 years ago:

The truth is an offence, but not a sin.

Karridine said...

If he were ranting hateful spew, he could be legitimately censured, 'Community Spokesman' notwithstanding.

As it is, he deserves our support, for illustrating the DIALOGUE-KILLING nature of Leftist/Islamist/Fascist epithets, if for nothing else!

The key here is in the "...use of language TO STIFLE ALL DISCOURSE..." on the realities within which we find ourselves.

The Lord of Hosts, Baha'u'llah, repeatedly encourages the rational investigation of reality, for which God has given us humans a Rational Soul, capable of discerning LOVE and KNOWLEDGE.

It is apparent to me, at least, that the humor-impaired of our world are crippled by their condition, unable to laugh at themselves or their ideas, and vehemently opposed to letting US laugh at them!

BrainSurgeryWithSpoons.blogspot.com

RJ said...

Will Orange now start conducting investigations into the conduct of all of their employees/stockholders? Will they sack someone for attending a radical Islamist demonstration? Will they sack someone for saying they're against the EU?

I think it is incomprehensible that they would suspend this man, never mind sack him. I'm an Orange customer in Israel and will immediately change my cell phone if they don't reinstate him with apologies.

russ said...

if you insult islam and all that happens is you lose your job then you got off easy. think of theo van gogh

Anonymous said...

MPACUK defends someone who threatens to cut the throat of blogger who exposed Reuters. MPACUK rallied around this outrageous murder threat.

Yet, now MPACUK is trying to have an employee suspensed for writing a blog that doesn't advocate murder?

Something is wrong here?

MPACUK should not even be listened to because of they aid people who advocate murder.

Anonymous said...

MPACUK defends someone who threatens to cut the throat of blogger who exposed Reuters. MPACUK rallied around this outrageous murder threat.

Yet, now MPACUK is trying to have an employee suspensed for writing a blog that doesn't advocate murder?

Something is wrong here?

MPACUK should not even be listened to because of they aid people who advocate murder.

King Soloman said...

Sorry but I think your arguments to Orange are wasted. Orange will be motivated by the economic argument only. They know full well the damage that an international Muslim boycott would do to Orange. Worse still, if they try and fight this they may be facing terrorist attacks on Orange staff members and buildings worldwide. They cannot afford luxuries such as freedom of speech and defending democracy. They are only a mobile phone company. I believe it will be up to the government and the British people to stand up and fight against this evil.

Anonymous said...

Can you suspend memebers of MPACUK for bringing Muslims into disrepute?

And does anyone in Britain have a sense of humour anymore?

verity said...

King Solomon makes a good point. But Tony Blair's government will never rein the Muslims in. They will continue to be given priority over the owners of the country.

Anonymous said...

Re why are there no muslim comedians in britain. The most famous one is salman rushdie. a sense of humour used to be a national trait of the english, nowadays it's become a very dangerous occupation and our society is so much poorer for it.