Wednesday, April 07, 2010

The Final PMQs

There was a big error by Gordon Brown at the start of PMQs, by trying to shift the blame for lack of equipment onto military commanding officers. That won't go down well on ARRSE. Cameron was right to accuse Brown of trying to lay off responsibility onto every else. It happens to be a fact, and not just on this issue. Just read Andrew Rawnsley's book for many other examples.

Cameron then moved on to Labour's policy on pension funds and Brown's robbery from them. Brown's answer was incomprehensible to most people. He said that the earnings link would be restored. Cameron accused him of deception and "it's the kind of deception we will rebut in this election campaign".

He then moved onto National Insurance Contributions. Cameron quoted Brown saying on GMTV that business leaders had been deceived. Was he really saying that he knew more about creating jobs than business leaders? Brown then made a long rambling answer about Labour's response to the recession and then accused the Tories of putting the NHS at risk.

David Cameron then quoted the head of Diageo who supports the NIC cut. A Labour backbencher then shouted out "He's a Tory". Cameron denied that and pointed out that Mr Walsh is a member of the PM's Economic Council. He then came out with his best line...

He's probably a Tory now! So are half the country!

Brown came back and said: "To think, he was the future once!" It was a good line, but somehow it didn't quite work. He kept repeating the line, "Same old Tories". Very unoriginal.

Nick Clegg got off to a bad start by saying "he and he" with reference to Brown and Cameron. This allowed Labour MPs to chortle "tee he he". His question about political reform was too long. Brown's response was "Lord Ashcroft". He almost spat it out. Clegg called his answer "ridiculous". Clegg's payoff line about the Labour benches was quite good: "Look at them now. You've failed. It's over. It's time to go."

Cameron 8
Brown 5
Clegg 6



45 comments:

Ben said...

Brown and Cameron had to talk National Insurance because they have nothing to offer. The Lib Dems are caught in the trap of appearing un-electable.

So what happens? We face yet more talk of tax, efficiency savings, and the deficit (on which none of the BigBad3 have a long-term solution).

Where are the measures designed to stimulate economic growth?????

John said...

I think you came up with those scores some time before noon. It was a pretty poor showing all round tbh, although Brown did have the best line: "you were the future once."

Brown 6
Cameron 6
Whatsisname 3

William said...

Who are the BigBad3? Are they super hero villains?

The Boiling Frog said...

He's probably a Tory now! So are half the country!

It may have seemed a good line to Tories, but I thought it sounded presumptuous and a tad arrogant, besides not being correct.

Agree with the rest of your analysis though Iain, basically Brown was poor, Cameron was much better - typical PMQs in fact. Hopefully we'll never have to see another one with Brown as PM

bobthedog said...

At last Cameron attacked Brown for his record of poor government.

Score is wrong

Brown 3 (he didnt answer any question again)
Cameron 9
Clegg 4

Boo said...

Was Gordon really sugesting he was wasting £6bn for the sake of the british economy?

Tis madness

golden_balls said...

While this blog is still a decent read don't expect anything other than the party line on most issues.

Cameron suggesting he'll get half the country voting for him was quite a statment to make i'm not sure how he calculated that one lol

PJH said...

Cameron then moved on to Labour's policy on pension funds and Brown's robbery from them. Brown's answer was incomprehensible to most people. He said that the earnings link would be restored.

Not having viewed it, and unable to find any reasonable transcripts:

Is it because the reply appears to relate to the state pension, when the question appears to be about personal pensions - two completely different things?

Blaad said...

John said...
... Brown did have the best line: "you were the future once."

Shame he stole it from someone else.

Desperate Dan said...

Are you suffering from short term memory loss? Cameron said ""You were the future once" to Tony Blair on Dec 7, 2005. Brown and Mandelson are massive Cameron fans. They're forever quoting him and this was just yet another example.

Matthew said...

Brown's line that the Tories NI cut will "take £6bn out of the economy" is utter nonsense, and represents either an embarrassing level of understanding of economics for a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, or a miserable attempt to deceive voters. See here:

http://prologue.squarespace.com/prologue/2010/4/7/economics-102.html

Robert said...

You cannot accuse the Prime Minister for equipment shortages. The responsibility for ordering any form of equipment rightly rests with the MOD. They decide priorities and pay for them out of the defense budget. If there are shortages of helicopters then the MOD has to cut back in other areas to make up the shortfall. This could mean cutting back on ships or Eurofighters or some other arms. They could also ask the government for more money.

It is not up to the Prime Minister to tell the MOD how to spend its budget.

Get real!

Unsworth said...

@ Goldenballs

In your Stalinist world no doubt everything is determined by The Party.

Don't suppose it might occur to you that some here are perfectly capable of expressing their own views - even Iain?

And where exactly did Cameron say he'll "get half the country voting for him"? Just play the tape back again to yourself until such time as you actually hear what he said, rather than what you 'think' he said.

Moron.

Desperate Dan said...

PJH - Private pensions/State pensions are inextricably linked. Brown stole £100million from people who'd invested in private pensions and then gave some of it back in the form of bus passes and winter fuel allowances. Arrogant unfeeling shit that he is, Brown expects pensioners to be grateful for his generosity which is in fact simply sleight of hand.

Sungei Patani said...

"You were the future once" was not an original comment it was used used by David Cameron referring to Tony Blair where it made sense. When Cameron used it Blair had been Prime Minister for several years had completely run out of steam and was being hounded by Brown.

David Cameron still is the future.

Oscar Miller said...

'You were the future once'- used so brilliantly by Cameron against Blair in his first outing at PMQs hit home because it was palpably true and positioned Cameron as the coming man.

Parroted by Brown, after 13 years in office, it had no such resonance and came across as premature and rather triumphalist. Apart from being rehearsed and not spontaneous. Didn't hit any targets.

Oscar Miller said...

'You were the future once'- used so brilliantly by Cameron against Blair in his first outing at PMQs hit home because it was palpably true and positioned Cameron as the coming man.

Parroted by Brown, after 13 years in office, it had no such resonance and came across as premature and rather triumphalist. Apart from being rehearsed and not spontaneous. Didn't hit any targets.

titus-aduxas said...

Two things about heliochoppers. A helicopter is not a helicopter - a Chinook will not take on ground troops or installations just as an Apache is incapable of airlifting supplies. To simply say "we have increased the number of helicopters/flying hours/etc is meaningless.

Secondly, Brown repeated that flying hours have been increased by 130% over 2006 figures. Troop numbers in the same period have trebled = more troops per flying hour than in 2006.

Norfolk Blogger said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Grim Reaper said...

Desperate Dan may be correct on this occasion. Cameron did indeed say "you were the future once" to Tony Blair a few years ago. Brown may have simply been taking the piss - and failing badly at that - or he was merely desperate for a line to throw back at Call Me Dave and that was the first that came to mind.

I'm now beginning to think it would be better for Gordon Brown's health if he were to lose this election. It's only the second day of the campaign and he already looks like he's on death's door.

Hasan said...

This was Brown's worst PMQ's since the one's he did when he became PM.

If he's this awful in the TV debates, then Cameron will come out the best.

Shocked at Nick Clegg referring to the two leaders as 'he and he'. Rude and very populist. Is he hoping to ride on short term gains by random (and manufactured) outbursts of anger?

Ben said...

@William - well if you mean the sual Suspects. Brown and Cameron must have taken a leaf out of the book of Keyser Soze - they've spun us a good yarn on the economy.

Can we have a say - only if Jury Team get the chance to give us a say on policy through referendums - take a look: http://www.juryteam.org/p16-citizens-referendums.php

Mostly Ordinary said...

Please don't call it a NI cut, you can't cut something that isn't in place.

Not that Nick Wood said...

To me, Brown appeared more uncomfortable at PMQ's than he has for some time. I suspect he fears having to give straight answers on the hustings as opposed to avoiding the questions at PMQ's. I feel Bobthedog has the scores more correctly.
One thing I was disappointed with Cameron about was his failure to pick up on this "taking £6 billion out of the economy". How is leaving money in taxpayers’ pockets “Taking it out”? It is our money, not the government’s and Cameron should start saying so.

davidc said...

how ever bad brown may have been it was verging on brilliant (well maybe not that good) compared to the the performance put up by mini milliband (ed) when interviewed last evening by eddie mair on the pm programme

starfish said...

Lets get the helicopetr issue straight

If helicopters do not exist they cannot be magiced up from somewhere - even if the MOD stopped spending all money and used it all for helicopters they have to be built and commissioned

Fact - UK troops were committed with inadequate resources

Fact - the person responsible for allocation of those resources was Mr Brown

Evereything else is a smokescreen

The armed forces will make the best of what they have and the military advice to the PM at the time was almost certainly that without certain resources operations would take longer, be more costly in blood and treasure or might fail

That doesn't mean that the politicians allocated the resources requested by the armed forces

Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs said...

Cameron: "[Gordon Brown]...will go down in history as the one who destroyed our pension system"

For those who can be bothered to work in the private sector, despite Labour's overburdening amounts of legislation and taxes that make it virtually impossible to compete in a global marketplace, I for one feel this line should be deservedly placed on Brown's gravestone as a warning for future generations.

O/T for those who want to see Guido's PMQs Live chat highlights can click here to see the funnies.

Desperate Dan said...

We won't have to suffer Brown much longer. The other day Mandelson seemed to suggest Gordy wouldn't serve a full term. The Labour Party slogan should be "Vote Brown, Get Miliband."

Moriarty said...

@golden balls

As if you ever surprise us.

John said...

I know the origins of 'you were the future once' but it was good to see Gordon turn it around onto Camerong. Anyway, chillax y'all, we've got another month of this to go.

Paddy Briggs said...

"He's probably a Tory now! So are (sic) half the country!"

is half the country Dave - all that expensive education gone to waste!

Fred Blogs said...

I think Mr. Cameron meant "so IS half the country", not "so are half the country". If only he'd been to a decent school, he might have made something of himself.

starfish said...

BTW Iain

Labour's first sock puppet on ARRSE has just been ejected (funnily enough on a thread about the subject you mentioned....)

Robert said...

Politicians do not allocate resources to our armed forces. That is up to the MOD.Politicians allocate money. If the money to provide resources to our forces is short, thst is the fault of the politicians. If the MOD do not use the money they control to buy the right kit that is not the fault of the government.

Brown is responsible for many things, but he is not directly responsible for kit shortages. The MOD and service chiefs are trying to pin the blame for their incompetence on the politicians. This is an old game and it works both ways.

If we do not have the capability to continue in Afghanistan then the service chiefs should tell the government that we have to withdraw or more money should be provided.

Houdini said...

I can't understand why Cameron doesn't play more on Labour, the party, being bankrupt, so why should we trust them again with the economy?

It is simple and to the point of Labour and Browns economic incompetence.

Houdini said...

Where are the measures designed to stimulate economic growth?????

You mean like...ooohhhh, just a single one off the top of my head, cutting tax and wastage?

Are you watching the same people and campaigns as me?

Jess The Dog said...

just let me know where and when the shameless contemptible liar will be in Scotland and I'll give him a heckling he won't forget....as ex military.

Houdini said...

Teach me to read all the comments first...trolls are out in force!

That's where Labours limited funds are going, to pay people to sit at PC's making stupid comments and observations on any and every blog they can.

Andy W said...

Sorry, but the way our entry into Afghan worked was with the MOD being told it had a finite amount of cash to do the job - therefore forcing the generals to scrimp and save and cut, resulting in a sub-optimal force package going into Helmand (in order not to fire a shot - John Reid). At every stage, the treasury (Brown, then Darling) has frustrated the applied military judgement of commanders on the ground to do what they should be doing, and resourcing the MOD correctly to do the job the country, via it's elected representatives has asked of them.

Houdini said...

If there are shortages of helicopters then the MOD has to cut back in other areas to make up the shortfall.

That's right moron, the MOD knew we were going to war before Blair or Brown decided we were and could have made the economic plans well before hand and didn't! The bastards! Brown cutting the procurement budget for helicopters was also known before he made the cuts, so they could have saved many, many lives by pre-empting him and didn't, the further bastards!

Some peoples limited brain capacity, especially around Labour supporting students and interns making comments about things they know nothing, should be banned.

What an utter cretin this person is defending Brown like this.

Unsworth said...

@ Paddy Briggs

All depends on how you spell 'country'.

GarethS said...

Robert is a superb example of why 16 year olds should not get the vote! Rob, you are wrong on so many levels it beggars belief.

alan said...

Iain's comments on this not going down well on ARRSE were prescient - within minutes of this article appearing, a Labour Troll appeared on ARRSE crayoning over the thread that was rapidly showing Brown for the mendacious scumbag that he is:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/p=3272339.html#3272339

Prompt Moderator action culled the worst of these excesses - but it's becoming clear that many Blogs are now reporting increased Labour Trolling - and not in the Polari sense either!

Twig said...

@Desperate Dan said...
Brown stole £100million from people who'd invested in private pensions..."


Sorry to be pedantic, but I believe your figures are out by approx. £99,900,000,000 give or take a couple of hundred million.

In other words, enough money to buy a lot of helicopters.
...

Mrs Rigby said...

@ Robert
"It is not up to the Prime Minister to tell the MOD how to spend its budget."

Really?

Gosh. Must have misheard.

So Mr Brown has never said in Parliament that he had ordered either helicopters or landrovers?