However, Tory Bear has done us all a service and batted the ball back to the left's court. I don't often quote a blogpost in full, but this one merits it.
TB is getting sick to the back teeth of Labour, and their stooges, attempting to create scandal around who the tories sit with in the European Parliament. The audacity that they have in these attacks can quickly be exposed with Google and rather appropriately given today’s attempt at journalism from the Observer – Wikipedia.
The Labour Party sit with the European Socialists grouping (PES), a bunch of nuts lefties that make Blair and Brown look slightly to the left of Hannan. Labour can try have a half-hearted smear attempt at the tory groupings, but it is a national embarrassment that the governing party of the day consort with communists, terrorists, murderers, anti-semites and 9/11 deniers.
Oh you didn’t know this? Well it’s not like it’s reported by the main stream media. Dan Hamilton wrote a great piece a few months ago and TB would like to share some of what he exposed. Lets just have a quick peek at a couple of Labour’s friends in Europe shall we...
First up we have former Italian Communist Party officer holder and Josef Fritzel look alike Giulietto Chiesa. A member of the Communist Party until 1991 Chiesa has since made a name for himself not only blaming Russia’s invasion of Georgia on European countries but more significantly as an extremely vocal 9/11 denier. His documentary Zero, as well as various essays and TV appearances have suggested that the US government was behind the planning and execution of the attacks. This lunatic is now the official European spokesman for the 9/11 Truth Movement.
Who else are close allies of the Labour Party in Europe?
How about Proinsias De Rossa, ever heard of him? This former IRA man originally joined the Communist and Allies group before transferring to the PES and taking an active role in the drafting of the European Constitution. What do you expect from a Labour Party who didn’t bat and eyelid when their guest Martin McGuinness was allowed to stroll around the Grand Hotel in Brighton almost 25 years to the day the IRA had murdered so many there.
So many loons to choose from, but TB’s absolute favourite scumbag has to be Andrzej Zbigniew Lepper the leader of the Polish Self-Defence of the Republic Party, who Labour sit hand in hand with in Europe.
Where to start with their leader and the sleaze, the criminal activities and the general insanity of the man. Another former communist, he has done time for assault and even demanded sexual favours for jobs in his office. Famed for throwing hecklers onto piles of manure according to the BBC, the "chorus of his party song is: This land is your land, this land is my land, we won't let anyone punch us in the face.”
Perhaps most worrying is Lepper’s honorary degrees from the anti-Semitic Interregional Academy of Personnel Management. To give you an idea where these guys are coming from, their honorary professor is the white supremest David Duke.
So next time you hear some Labour tool having a go at tory allies, tell them to go take a long hard look in the mirror and then behind their own shoulders.
The hypocrisy is sickening.
UPDATE 19.11: Not one Labour hack has been able to successfully defend this, or at least have the decency to condemn the facts. Kerry McCarthy, an official spokesman for the Labour Party online resorted to name calling instead of defending her MEPs. Says a lot. Arguments have ranged from the surreal - apparently it's fine as they weren't sort out, to laughable from those who should know better - it's ok because they are pro-Lisbon.
Maybe time to ditch the mud strategy guys.
I doubt they will, but we can live in hope. The truth is that all European Parliament groupings contain some pretty dodgy characters, many of whose views are unacceptable to UK parties. The LibDems suffer the same in their grouping. I don't pretend that the views of the Polish Law & Justice Party and some of the Lithuanians coincide with many Tory views. But to pretend they are any worse than those in other groups is just playing stupid, petty politics.
53 comments:
You are grasping at straws Iain.
David Cameron is a pro European, just like Maggie and John.
You've played the anti card for all it's worth with those that you yourselves got rid of.
Now you play the anti card via a pro European.
It won't work, you will be suussed before the election, the verdict will be 'deceit' and the Lisbon Treaty will flow through.
Somehow you cling to the notion that a 'savage' outlook for the Country's finances will win the day.
NO CHANCE! and Labour will win on the pro EU and less severe consequence for the economy.
Then Dave will wipe everyone out who lost it for him.
Look back to 1987 and Neil for guidance.
I think I am right in saying that the Socialist Group are voting Thursday against a budget motion ensuring that funds won't be disbursed for enforced abortions.
Spot on. Best wishes from Brussels
Iain
You and Torybear are getting a bit hot under the collar over all this and scraping the barrel a liitle, methinks... Does this mean that Labour's and LD's challenges are beginning to strike home?
wow , just goes to show that most of europe are nutters really
The difference is that the grouping the Tories are in is very fragile and so the loonies have more of a say in ERP matters then they do in the EPP.
Anyways, "What Aboutery" is never much of an argument.
Interesting points made if true, so let's look at them. But certainly you've got to say that the way in which its phrased is very shrill.
There also is a difference between having links with a crank outfit and celebrating the Waffen SS.
Both you and Tory Bear make Labour's point for it. It is not Labour that has left the mainstream European left of centre. It has not sought to align itself with parties to the extreme left of European Social Democracy. Labour remains in the centrist majority.
It is Cameron who has withdrawn from the mainstream centre right European Peoples Party to align itself on the extreme right wing of European politics. This, to the astonishment of mainstream centrist Conservatives like Merkel, Sarkozy, Balkenende etc. The Tories have chosen irrelevence and isolation of the extremist fringe.
Labour remains the party of the centre, the Tories the party of extremism.
You make Labour's case eloquently.
Precisely, Iain! Good to have a bit of common sense from you and Mr Bear.
A propos of Europe I suggest you have a look at the Rees-Mogg article in the Times today.http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/william_rees_mogg/article6880057.ece.
With the possibility of a hung parliament Dave needs all the votes he can get. I live in a marginal Labour seat. I have written to the Conservative candidate to say I will not be voting Conservative at the next election unless we get a referendum on Lisbon. He is sorry to hear this, but apart from' not letting matters rest' cannot confirm a referendum on Lisbon.
With Klaus wavering Dave is going to have to come clean with us sooner rather than later on this issue. Any sign of a fudge and he loses a lot of marginals he is hoping to pick up. No referendum, no vote.
Isn't this just a rewrite of the original post from CentreRight?
And Ian, you remain in complete denial in respect of traitor Heat.
The facts are there for all to see. Heath WAS a treasonous traitor (amongst others).
>>NO CHANCE! and Labour will win on the pro EU and less severe consequence for the economy.<<
But not on their grammar, it appears.
Are you John Prescott ?
Oops.
I'd consider very carefully if it's wise to have published the buffoonish blabberings of Tory Bear aka Harry Cole, without cheacking the facts for yourself.
I know last week hasn't been a good one for you, but if you don't get the apologies out quick, this one may be an awful lot worse.
Ha buffoonish is a new one Mr Schillings.
Thanks Iain.
But the Tories left a sensible, centre-right, mainstream grouping and sollicited the support of these crazies on the fringe right in order to form their own grouping.
Labour might have ended up with some unsavory characters in their group, but most of the lefty crazies are in a different group, whereas the Tory party is now at the heart of the too-far-right group in the EP. Shame that.
The squeals from lefties denying their lies and hypocrisy is risible.
Plettan. The group you refer to is a Federalist grouping and as such I am glad to be out of it..
Elesby - Indeed Cameron is not anti EU in principle but he is anti the way the EU is being run and the way it needlessly interferes with national governments. I know this because I have been told it from the horses mouth.
I think that is probably the overwhelming attitude of most people in Britain.
Me, I would not be bothered if we pulled out, but I will have to live with what the majority want. We certainly need to change the EU. The reality is what happens when we fail to do just that.
Gillibrand - 'enforced abortions' -? is this is to do with the EU giving funding to counties 'which perpetrate such human rights abuses as forced abortions and coercive sterilisations as part of a population control policy'. All I can find is a vote in 2008 - where in fact 20 British MEP voted against banning this, they were all LibDem or Labour - Plus PC, UKIP and our friend from Veritas.
"But to pretend they are any worse than those in other groups is just playing stupid, petty politics."
Yes, Iain. It's called Labour's last desperate chance to smear the Tories in the run up to the election. It's all they have left - no pun intended.
It all fits together - Miliband's speech, that ridiculous letter sent by Stephen Fry, the BBC's constant one-sided reporting of the issue.
The Left are desperate.
"Anyways, "What Aboutery" is never much of an argument."
Neither is blinkered hpocricy, it is labour that are flinging around nazi smears disingenuously based on who they are loosely connected to.
Now take a look with who you lot are shacked up with, not too rosey is it?
People in glass houses and all that...but like always i suppose it doesn't count when you do it.
I'm no expert, but I read that article in the Observer yesterday at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/18/conservatives-hid-past-european-ally
with a certain amount of disbelief. It was not only poor journalism, it betrayed woeful ignorance of how, and by whom, Wikipedia is constructed/edited.
It waffled on about House of Commons/Strasbourg IPs having made edits but gave no context, ie what was in the original entries, by whom they were made, and how they were altered. Just a bit of vague & unsubstantiated mudslinging.
And that would hold true no matter which side of the fence I sit on.
Gary Elsby! You're back? How are the BNP doing in your neck of the woods, Gary? Last I hear, they were making you look like a tit.
So, in summary, both continent-wide groupings include lunatics and extremists, as do many of the others. The difference being that in the PES the lunatics tag along to the coat-tails of all the mainstream parties of the centre-left, whereas in the ECR they're wearing the coat.
Also, it's interesting to note that there are still some Tories taking the view that we shouldn't have negotiated with Sinn Fein...
Sorry Iain, but if they're grasping at Proinsias De Rossa as an example, they'd really want to go back to do their homework. De Rossa was in the IRA in his youth, but it's like saying that Mandela is always a terrorist or that Tony Blair was soft on national security because he was in CND. De Rossa is openly despised by Sinn Fein because he was a former IRA man who became a staunch democrat and opponent of the Provos. There are people in Irish politics who are regarded as suspect on the terrorism issue, but he is not one of them. I suspect the people who listed him don't know much about Irish politics.
@Trevorsden on EPP being 'federalist'
Precisely, you confirm the point. English 'Little Englander' mentality of euroscepticism is an extreme right wing philosophy. An attitude that only finds companions amongst anti-semitic, nazi loving and homophobic self absorbed extreme right wingers.
The truth is the Tories have abandoned the centre right mainstream within Europe to sit with a more right wing grouping. Although the Tory Party still remains officially committed to EU membership, it no longer wishes to be in the mainstream of centre-right thinking within Europe or to have any such influence on such thinking. The only rational conclusions are either that the Tory Party is not telling the truth about its commitment to Europe and/or that it is not a centre right party despite the image Dave is trying to project for public consumption within the UK.
The Labour Party continues to sit with the main centre left grouping within the European Parliment and appears to comfortable in continuing to do so.
This just isn't an area where triangulation would ever work.
In the meantime the UK's only representative in the centre right mainstream of Europe (and the largest grouping within the EU Parliment) is the very decent Edward Macmillan Scott (or Trot as the childish tendency call him)
Just remember when Dave tries to make mood music about reaching out to others who are not traditional Conservatives - how he has been proved incapable of working with those in the mainstream centre right of European politics.
I have wondered about this story. It seems to be only trailing on the Guardian and lefty site. Admitadly it's gone a tad berserk on comment if free.
Is there really much of a story here? The guardian desperatly want there to be one.
True the allies are not perfect, but it would be unseamly for DC to comment on the flaws of his allies. That our foriegn secretary does so is undiplomatic to say the least.
On matters of history, we should be careful to judge. These countries have managed to escape communism and understandably got a load of bagage. Surely a party full of ex-Trots can apriciate that.
Norton whataboutery is "unhelpful" is not a very good argument by members of a party who have just spents ages doing it. Some time ago a BBC broadcaster said precisely that when, at a public meeting after 10 minutes of dubious accusations against israelis I attempted to make one comaparison in the other direction.
In any case all 3 parties in Britain have been enthusiastic about bombing civilians to help unreprentent ex-Nazis, drug dealers, child sex slavers & organleggers in campaigns of racial genocide. I think that degree of friendship for scum like that trumps, by several orders of magnitude, sitting beside people who have a good word to say about the Waffen SS or IRA.
Think you've stepped on some toes here, Iain. Listin to the lefty piggies squeal.
Dear oh dear - pathetic jason pathetic.
So its all right what De Rossa did in his youth, but terrible what people the Tories group with.
typical rank hypocrisy.
de rossa was interned in the Republic for 3 years in the first troubles and then has wondered from 1 lefty group to another. A fine bedfellow.
Anti Europeans never win General Elections in their own Country
This is a fact.
Anti Europeans do win elections within their own parties, but is novel for a pro European to win in an anti European party.
This exposes the lie.
Dave will lose anything other than from within.
He will then prove the nuclear vs anti nuclear argument (this argument passes for all arguments of anti vs pro anything).
He will then lay waste to all those that oppose after he secures another term.
He will do a John ("bastards") Major on all those who offer a refusal to order, once called.
We in Labour would have killed for a link between Thatcher and the Nazis. Alas, it was not to be and we settled for Pinochet.
Dave sides by a Waffenn SS apology in his new 'modern' Conservative ECR.
Britain, like Winston before us, will not wear this at all.
Winston was given a State Funeral.
The State, will see of Dave.
Don't be silly.
De Rossa admits he was a member of the IRA and it is a matter of fact that he was in prison as a result of this. The Eamon Dunphy allegations were related to De Rossa knowing about bank robberies and forgeries while a member of the Workers' Party (and it was proved he did not).
Regardless, he is a thoroughly nasty piece of work and a former member of the IRA. Fact.
Trevor,
Solid anti-IRA people in the republic have no problem with De Rossa, who was in the IRA in the 1950s. The 1950s Trevor! You still hold the same beliefs you held when you were 19? I certainly don't, I used to be a Thatcherite!
I actually didn't say anything nasty about the ECR, so I don't know what rank hypocrisy you're talking about. What I don't understand is how the tories are opposed to Merkel, who supported Lisbon, but allied with Law and Justice, who, eh, supported Lisbon. Hmmm.
It has been brought to my attention that one aspect of Tory Bear's post is potentially contentious. As I do not have time to check into it I have deleted the sentence. It does not alter the wider point which the post seeks to make.
Perhaps we should spend more time thinking about Miliband's speech to the Labour wake..er...conference.
As discussed on CIF, the Latvian SS argument boils down to the fact that the Left explodes if Communist Russia is compared to Nazi Germany.
The point is that some in Latvia regard the Nazis as a 'less bad' and some even think the locally-recruited SS should be celebrated for standing up the Soviets.
As one CIF commentator admitted, the Left breaks out in a panic if anybody suggests that the Commies were worse than the Nazis.
I'm personally disturbed by Miliband's speech, which suggested to me that he is might be pedaling the view of the more extreme on the Jewish Left, who insist the slaughter of millions by Stalin should never be compared to the Holocaust.
I'm not one for bartering over mass murder, but I don't believe the Holocaust should be held up as a 'worse' kind of genocide. Those murdered by Stalin are not lesser people.
You'll note Miliband's father Ralph's family history...
'As Adolphe Miliband, he was born in Brussels of Polish-Jewish émigré parents. Both his parents lived in the Jewish quarter of Warsaw, before his father, Samuel Miliband, joined the Red Army in the Polish–Soviet War He is buried in Highgate Cemetery close to Karl Marx and many celebrated left-leaning minds of the 20th Century.'
'The young Miliband was forced to relocate from Belgium in 1940 as Hitler's army moved westwards through the country and he managed to catch a boat for London at Ostend.'
'He and his father Samuel entered UK illegally on forged papers. Once in England he further changed his name to Ralph.'
So David's grandfather joined the Red Army. Perhaps we should hold it against him...
Perhaps the moral of the story is that you should fat-check before cut and pasting the libellous witterings of Guido's delivery boy.
Truth, if there ever needed to be more, why coalition governance is always bad.
To the pro-European "extremist" means not a paid up member of surrendering to a European super-state. Anything outside that narrow remit is unacceptable. Conversely no matter how bad a party might be or have been, if they are on board for the project they are acceptable.
None of Harry Cole's allegations stack up. Only one out of the three is actually aligned with Labour MEPs as part of the Socialists and Democrats Group, and he is a perfectly respectable politician.
The first example, Giulietto Chiesa, is not part of the Socialist and Democrats group. Chiesa was elected as an Independent and joined the ALDE group (the Liberal Democrats). He moved from there to the Socialist Group in 2006 but he evidently did not feel comfortable. In the 2009 elections he stood for re-election in Latvia on the list of 'Pro Human Rights in United Latvia', a group which is affiliated to the Greens-European Free Alliance group and has no connection with the Socialist Group. See its website with big logo at the top. Chiesa was defeated in June but had he been elected he would not have been in the Socialists and Democrats Group with Labour but with the SNP, Plaid Cymru and Green MEPs.
Proinsias de Rossa's youthful activities with the IRA were more than 50 years ago. He took the Officials side in the split, and the Officials gave up violence in the 1970s. His party was still known as Sinn Fein for some time but they were accepted within the Irish establishment and were part of coalition governments; he himself was a Minister in 1994-97 and the Major government seemed to have no problems with him. If Harry Cole is insinuating that Proinsias de Rossa is someone with terrorist links now, he better have a good lawyer.
Finally Harry Cole produces Andrzej Zbigniew Lepper, who is not a member of the Socialist Group. He is a non-aligned MEP. See official page.
Fact checking is just so "old media" though.
PES may include some looneys, as I suspect does the EPP.
Some points:
1. Communism was/is better than fascism.
2. The Italian Communist Party hardly counts as communist.
3. The preponderance of PES members are very respectable social democrats.
Meanwhile, I do actually agree with you that any cross-Europe grouping will contain problematic parties.
OTOH, PES was a clear and normal grouping. The Tory/Polish/Lativian thing is just a matter of convenience.
I am very much pro-EU, and a I suspect Cameron is also. We can all move along on October 27 when, it seems at least likely, the Czech president will make the Lisbon treaty EU law.
Then we can have a real debate. I have NO OBJECTION to a withdrawal referendum on the EU. I think the UK could survive outside, although I think breaking up the greatest peace creator in European history would be tragic.
But I will kiss my dog if the Tories go into the election with a "Europe Yes or No" referendum pledge.
Yes, the EPP has its loonies, most notably an Irish party with a terrorist past and former fascist parties in Italy and Austria. There really is no way to distinguish between any of the groupings on what someone in some party did years and years ago. That Labour have been caught out lying about this is no excuse for their supporters on the internet to fail to acknowledge the truth.
Pretty weak argument....teh major difference is that Cameron's grouping is led by a dodgy character the Labour grouping merely contains dodgy members. There is a massive difference.
Predictably, at some point the need to score partisan points meant that barking lunacy took over.
Even so, is there any chance that James D @ 11:19 PM can explain his nonsensical the EPP has its loonies, most notably an Irish party with a terrorist past ...?
The Irish contingent in the EPP consists of (count them) four Fine Gael MEPs, one in each constituency: Jim Higgins; Seán Kelly; Mairead McGuinness and Gay Mitchell. They're a pretty orthodox, even colourless bunch, so to enliven the spectacle, which of those has a "terrorist past"?
Fine Gael was founded in 1933, -- and, yes, had its problems with the like of General O'Duffy in the '30s -- but where, in the intervening three-quarters of a century, has terrorism featured in its programme? I was in the gallery and observing (for example) the agricultural Sir Anthony Esmonde, TD for Wexford, in the '60s. He was half-brother to a posthumous VC, awarded for leading Fairy Swordfish against the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau in the "Channel dash". He was one the first Irish delegation to the European Parliament in 1973. Yet, "terrorist" was hardly the term that came readily to mind.
One might as easily claim that the Tories are a gang of insurrectionists, because the nickname goes back to the Jacobite era.
But then, as I said elsewhere, fact-checking is an alien concept on this site.
@ Malcolm Redfellow
All the main Irish parties, North and South have "terrorist" origins, including the Unionist Party, with whom the Conservatives are now best buddies again.
But then again, Israel was founded in "terrorism", indeed with the help of the IRA as it happens.
If you go back far enough you'll see that modern England was founded in regicide and terrorism.
You see, "terrorism" isn't a very useful term in the understanding of politics and conflict.
It's useful only for propaganda purposes and in constructing a rather naive goodies and baddies approach to complex history, which enables even the dimmest of our citizens to pretend to themselves thy're taking part in politcal debate.
Carry on....
Yes, Malcolm, fact checking is alien. Otherwise you would have looked up the origins of Fine Gael and found a Sinn Féin IRA splinter group and the fascist Blueshirts.
The point is of course that in a young country, even the most mainstream of political parties will have a surprisingly recent colourful past. If anything, Fine Gael are worse than many, as they were still prancing around in blue shirts having their marches banned a decade after independence. In comparison, Mr Kaminski's involvement in an anti-Communist group before Poland became a free country is laudable: it's not his fault what that group decided to do after he left it.
Ultimately, throwing insults at Polish politicians for Poland not having been a free country at the time just makes you look like you have a prejudice against Poland. Ultimately, all Labour have achieved is to make their own Foreign Secretary look like a racist buffoon.
James D @ 12:15 PM:
Good grief! Why am I, of all people, defending Fine Gael? Well, perhaps in the interests of factual accuracy.
In the early 1960s I used to observe the Dáil from the public gallery: allow me to assure all and sundry, the FG front bench was hardly a hotbed of agitation. Yet those are the men who are denounced here as reformed "terrorists".
I am aware of the Blueshirt connection: review my posting, and note the reference to O'Duffy.
O'Duffy and his "Army Comrades Association" was one of the reasons why Fine Gael emerged from Cumann na nGaedheal. That didn't happen overnight; but it isn't wholly fair (even if, in a previous incarnation, I was up for it) to depict FG as merely the pro-Treatyites revisited.
For one reason there is the character of Cosgrave himself. He served, in uniform, in open rebellion, under Ceannt at the South Dublin Union: not quite the usual definition of a "terrorist". For that he received a death sentence. Thereafter, he was marked by devotion to his religion and to hard work: neither of which are actionable.
For all his faults, Cosgrave and the Party he created served his country well -- by his lights. He maintained a secular constitution (to be overthrown by De Valera). He established the Free State as an entity on the world stage. He steered the awkward course between the Treaty restrictions and legitimate national aspiration. He was instrumental in creating the mediocre, grey place the Twenty-six Counties were before the 1970s.
In his 1996 biography of Cosgrave, Stephen Collins quoted the Irish Times:
He is neither a wild-eyed revolutionary nor a lank-haired poet. He dresses generally in sombre hues, wears a bowler hat and looks rather like the general manager of a railway company ... unlike so many of the new school of Irish politician he does not believe in talking and has an excellent capacity for work ... he has no violently extremist past to live down and with him the problem of saving face does not arise.
Far from being "terrorists", Cosgrave and FG succeeded in what Ernest Blythe saw as their greatest achievement:
to bring the country round to the position where the government could be changed without bloodshed.
Something that was not possible in the Unionist Six Counties, perhaps?
Are you sure you want to say all this about Andrzej Lepper? He has no connection with Labour at all, but he did sit in coalition for a while with Law and Justice, the Polish partners of you-know-who. He would be more accurately described as a Conservative ally, not a Labour one. As I said, are you sure?
Presumably Total Politics will do the same "in depth" interviews with the leaders of these parties that you did for the Tories dodgy allies ?
After all, not to do so would make it seem that Total Politics is there to defend the Tory position.
Presumably I will be sticking to my plans to interview Vince Cable this month and Peter Mandelson next.
Not answering my question Iain.
Total Politics seemed to go out of its way to allow the Tories allies to refute allegations, the same allegation you make at Labour now. Surely, in the interests of fairness, you will extend the same to Labour's allies ?
Stop trying to be a smart arse. I am not the editor of Total Politics. The editor is not a Conservative. He asked me to do the Kaminski interview. I do an In Conversation interview every month. They are set up well in advance. Mandelson had to cancel that issue so Kaminski replaced him. If you actually ever read the magazine you wouldn't be trying to allege any party political bias. Even Kevin Maguire doesn't try that any more.
Oh, dearie, dearie me.
Now the Americans and Israelis are getting upset at the Conservative's allies in Europe.
Despite the Tory diversionary tactics, it looks like Labour had the Tories bang to rights on this all along.
There's no amount of dodgy blogs and slack allegations against Labour from you or Tory Bear that'll make much dent when America and Israel are getting fed up with you.
It's about time you just admitted you were wrong and have been desperately defending the indefensible all along. And as the more intelligent comments on here demonstrate, your attack on Labour's European allies smack of nothing less than a pathetic desperation.
When you're pissing off BOTH the Israelis and Americans, it's time to have a good long hard look at yourselves and consider whether you don't need a few refresher courses before you're fit for government.
Cameron is beginning to show just how wet behind the ears he is, and it'll only get worse as his limitations are exposed to more of the big boys game.
A little rich Norfolk Blogger for a LibDem to be calling for another wevsite to give them a chance to put your point of view when almost all LibDem blogs continuously censor views they disagree with.
In any case I think you will agree that the government funded BBC/Guardian put infinitely more effort into smearing Conservative allies than the LibDems unrepentent Nazi friends. That being the case balance is maintained (well approached) by reporting the stuff the Beeboids don't.
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