Sunday, July 12, 2009
Marr Nails Griffin on Sinking Immigrant Boats
So, who saw Andrew Marr interviewing Nick Griffin this morning? I thought Marr asked him some good questions, without the normal hectoring and aggression which is normally the mark of interviews with Griffin. And in my view, although Griffin was quite eloquent, he dug himself deeper and deeper as the interview went on. Marr asked him if he had recently said that boats carrying illegal immigrants from North Africa across the Med should be sunk. He admitted that he had and although he tried to explain his way out of it, any credibility he had built up during the rest of the interview was shot to pieces.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
125 comments:
The original interview was live on BBC report from Brussels, so why did jugears repeat what is now old news? Whatever Griffin said is now being repeated and he gets more media exposure!
Yet another reason why those who argue that media/MPs should shun the party are wrong.
Every time he gets the oxygen of publicity, he digs himself ever further into the mire and discretits himself and his party.
I look forward to yet more interviews.
On the contrary, I thought he was elequent, as you have written, but MARR did not allow him the opportunity to explain.
He was, for a politician, quite honest. Now Iain, surely you want politicians to be honest?
I can see why people vote for him, as he did come across, in this household, as reasonable, articulate and, as I say, honest.
The problem with many people, in the Westminster bubble, is they cannot understand the attraction the BNP has.
It is about time that major parties, instead of laying into the BNP, analyse why people support them. Immigration IS a major issue. Muslim Fundamentalism IS a major issue and the two are intertwined.
You had a post recently about the dress some muslim women wear. That and the manner in which whole area's have been changed into Little Asia
in this country does concern a great many people. Politicians have just ignored all this change!
Despite all the warnings over twenty to thirty years of the dangers of muslim fundamentalism!
To just moan and criticise the BNP is not the way to defeat them. People believe, rightly or wrongly, that the BNP is the only party that speaks up for them.
The way is to negate their atractivness, I believe,is by just promising to stop or serious limit immigration!
Ensure (as Cameron has said) that ENGLISH is the only language for the British Isles, and that does mean the nonsense of welsh being confined to the dustbin.
Failure will end with an Island of a thousand languages, greater division and years of strife between the different groups!!
And, I would add, bring an end to all religious schools! They create unnecessary division amongst children. Children can and will get along with each other and colour of skin etc. does not matter.
Finally, a return to school uniforms for ALL pupils from which there can be NO variations!
If a stronger line is not taken. IF the white population feel (as many do)that they are being treated as second rate citizens in their country, then, sadly, the BNP will prosper.
so why doesn't he nail his lying mate brown then? there are plenty of opportunities to do it, but being the bbc it wont happen. Target the bnp and leave labour alone, thats the bbc's motto. What you need to rememeber iain is that the bnp success has happened under labour and under brown in particular. Will it be any different under the tories. Will they accept mass unfetterd immigration at a cost to the white working class just like liebour?
just keep burying your head in the sand won't make this issue go away. Are you waiting for the firsy bnp MP before you do any thing?
I don't know Iain, I saw the interview at the time, and when he spoke about 'sinking' a couple of boats, the BBC interviewer then effectivly accused him of advocating murder, he then responded how he wasn't advocating murder as this should happen close to the african coast, and life jacket, or rafts should somehow be involved.
This is the problem that the press has dealing with Griffen, he says something pretty extreem, the media then inflates what he says to make a point about how unplesent they are, and he then can (honestly) rebut them, pointing out what he accuratley said, and claim a liberal conspiracy.
Having said that they are a bunch of deeply unplesant facists.
Iain, you might want to read this case in full.....Another nail in the coffin of bloggers freedom of speech........HERE.
The established media barons will be protected and allowed to protect those who work for them, but bloggers are to be picked off one by one, and being a journalist 'as well' as a blogger will be no protection.
I watched it and I thought that Griffin did quite well actually considering he was on the territory of the hostile BBC.
He was right about sinking the boats but wrong about doing it with people aboard.
We need a robust approach to stopping illegal immigration it is the only way to reduce the tidal wave of immigration.
The thanks of a grateful nation, Iain, for undertaking the horrible job of watching a fight between two tumours and telling us the result so that we don't have to do it.
yea, right. I think it was the other way around, but what does it matter what I think, you are far more influential than I. Finger on the pulse and all that.
I agree Iain. Griffin had been doing quite well until the sinking boats question. Me thinks he has been having some 'meeja' training. Now, who is going to own up to providing the training?
I watched the interview with Marr and Griffin and thought he dealt with the animosity quite well.
I also watched the interview between Sopel and Lord Grayson with disbelief at just how bad a politician Grayson really is. His attempts to avoid answering the questions must be the worst example of obfuscation ever displayed on the BBC.
Here is a "threat" Iain, a serious one.
If ever I see you in person my head will be slammed into your face with no thought for the legal consequences.
Have you got a fucking death wish faggot?
It's quite simple. Africa will not improve itself for its own people until it is made much harder for those with skills to leave.
When the choice is stay and fight for what is right or leave for an easier life in Europe, the best leave.
We have to make the European route all but impossible if we want to see real change in Africa, and real improvements in in living standards for African people.
Remember, Europe was not some ideal and perfect utopia, generations upon generations had to fight from within to create the democracy and wealth we now have. Africa needs to take that journey, we can help (although the EU tends to do everything in its power not to), but it will only be a sustainable change when Africans take things into their own hands.
Sinking the boats may be the extreme end of this policy, and I am no fan of he BNP, but if someone wants to suggest a policy which will stop the flow of migration, I'm all ears.
You have just elevated yourself to the top of the list...congratulation, we look forward to meeting with you.
I think Griffin's has a point, but it is not a palatable one.
Sinking a couple of boats today and perhaps killing a few score of illegal immigrants is certainly unacceptable, but drownings of illegal immigrants fleeing Africa for Sicily are currently running at about 1000 per year with estimates reaching around 20,000 over the last two decades (http://www.thetablet.co.uk/article/13309).
Which is better, debating the question, "A few score intentional deaths now, or many more thousands of accidental deaths over the coming years?" or ignoring the question altogether because we haven't got the balls to face up to it, and using this as another excuse to savage the BNP?
Please note, I am not a member of BNP, and have never voted for them.
The people travelling in those boats are usually double-crossed by the people who own them and forced to jump overboard at gunpoint, often drowning.
The real problem is that the EU expects small countries such as Malta to patrol vast areas of the Med. without the resources.
There was supposed to be a coordinates approach by the rest of the EU to provide resources to help with this effort, but it doesn't seem to be working.
As for Griffin, his whole style is to make provocatively stupid comments just so he can get exposure like this. Although any right-minded person would dismiss his absurdity straight away, there are many fools who take him seriously.
Shouldn't he be prosecuted under some "hate speech" crime for inciting violence?
The "far Right" = Bad!
The "far left" like McLabour and the unelected, unnacountable EUSSR Kommisars = Good!
If Marr is to do any nailing he should nail his shoddy researchers to the nearest wall. Griffen was able to grab the moral high ground as Marr lazily tried to corner him on things is was supposed to have said and done but apparently didn't.
It's not really such a big secret that the BNP is racist. It has attracted its support precisely because it is a nasty little racist party appealing to nasty little racists. The scandal is that Brown doesn't want to argue against racism but wants to steal back his racist supporters. Hence "local houses for local people" as if we can't work out exactly what who is aiming that phrase at.
Just read some of the latest comments. Well done morons for showing us what utter tools the BNP really are.
"The comments in bold aimed at someone who is Jewish are particularly distasteful."
'Tory boys', you are out of your tree yet again. The simile is accurate and stands whether the target is Jewish or Presbyterian!
For god's sake, if you want to know what REAL prejudice is, just look up at the 'anon' comments directly above yours.
Then wind your neck in!
I'm no BNP supporter, but I think we would be better served if all interviewers adopted the same attitude to members of the mainstream parties.
Marr is normally a pussycat with Labour Party members and Boulton tends to give Tories an easier time (although he is nowhere near as partisan as Marr), but bother have been red-hot with Griffin.
Didn't see it but yes, "sink the boats" does sound very extreme.
For Griffin's critics though, what are the alternatives?
One is to give up attempting to control immigration of course. Another seems to be to continue to attempt to control it in a completely innefective way.
If people insist on entering our continent or our country illegally (and many are heading this way), they are breaking our laws and need to be deterred using minimum effective force. If they keep coming after adequate warning they are invaders, not immigrants. Sinking the ships would be inhumane, but possibly effective. What would be both humane and effective?
Welcome to the list Iain - don't worry about going straight to the top however, everyone does at first. Plant life have difficulty in remembering long lists as well as making cogent arguments. Perhaps other saner comments might wish to give some thought as to why the lvel of immigrants is increasing throughout the world.
The more immigrants you let into this country, the greater the success of the bnp. Simples.
You politicians are the cause. you let them in in vast numbers. And you continue to let them pour in. Do you want to deny it? Come and see what I see and hear.
It's your fault!
Nice to see a Nazi visiting at 11.32 am and 11.35 am
11:32 - Yes you, the anonymous coward.
Assuming your BNP, which you probably are, Iain is arguing for your leader to be given more publicity.
If your leader (and party) is worth as much as a chocolate biscuit what do you have to fear?
Unless you have that little faith?
Anon 11.35 - morning Nick.
"IanVisits said... Yet another reason why those who argue that media/MPs should shun the party are wrong.
Every time he gets the oxygen of publicity, he digs himself ever further into the mire and discretits himself and his party."
In mine and your eyes. There are actually quite a lot of people that think these boats should be sunk, and what's more all on them left to die.
Good to see the loons are commenting! However, with an unbiased eye, I thought Griffin handles the interview pretty well. Marr didn't really lay a glove on him.
"Anonymous said... The more immigrants you let into this country, the greater the success of the bnp"
Why is this when the USA is practically made of immigrants, and far right parties are still pretty much on the very edges of the fringes there.
What's different about the UK?
I have to say that Griffin came through that interview pretty much unscathed, far from nailing him on the sinking comment he was allowed to qualify what he said and burst the story the media was putting out.
Oh, that comment of mine at 11:51 was aimed at a previous comment of 'Tory boys' (which has disappeared), NOT the one at 12:11.
I'm not - therefore - referring to Salmondnet's comment when I talk about 'real prejudice', but to those made by the two anons at 11:32 & 11:35.
Just for clarity!
Iain,
I didn't see the interview, however, I am appalled at some of the comments that some "anonymous" people have left on here today.
I don't follow Griffin and do not know if the defence he put up when presented with things he said or was supposed to have said were correct. But he did appear to put down the attacks made to him by Marr and left me unclear as to what he was alleged to have stated.
Therefore I don't think Marr made a very good job. I'm still left wondering did Griffin massage the truth?
I thought he made a good point about housing the immigrants in Hampstead, somehow I can't see that being a vote-winner for any of the major parties dspite their prattle about the joys of multicultuarlism.
I thought Marr then completely blew his own crdibility when he went on to say that "climate change" would shortly mean much of the populations of Africa & the Middle Esat would shortly come sailing onto our shores & would he want them all sunk? If Marr were correct then, as Griffin pointed out, it that is a question the other parties won't even attempt to answer (& obviously the BBC don't ask them).
Rather a shame that the BNP, being more of a big government party, aren't sceptical about the warming scam. Farage would have taken Marr apart if he had produced such a silly premise.
tory boys blah blah
Plant life have difficulty in remembering long lists as well as making cogent arguments.
And your idea of a cogent argument
is to call people names.
I saw the interview and felt it was quite significant in many ways.
Firstly, that Marr had invited him on: I think we will get used to seeing much more of him now he's an MEP.
Second, he's clearly had media training.
Third, he's trying to sound more moderate. There is a definite shift in attitude (publicly at least) in how the BNP leadership defines "British". Existing members of ethnic minority communities are now almost welcome it seems if they accept prevalent culture and language. Griffin says he now accepts that the extended repatriation policy is a non-starter.
Fourth, he nailed some urban myths (eg names of his dogs).
Fifth, his suggestion that new immigrants should be housed among the "liberal elite" in comfy Hampstead was entirely sensible.
Sixth, his comments about sinking boats exposed his nasty soul. This was more the thinking of the mass membership of the BNP and points to the difficulties Griffin could have if he tries broadening the party's appeal. Having said that, doesn't Cameron have a similar problem? There's a feeling that he says all the right things, but to what extent does that represent the mass membership?
Colin, you should nail your researchers to the wall, for feeding you the wrong spelling for the Griffin.
As for:
'Hence "local houses for local people" as if we can't work out exactly what who is aiming that phrase at.'
I bet even you can't work out what you meant by that.
Looks like the anonymous nutters are out today.
Iain - I disagree, the Griffin outburst about gun-boating the other day was truly stupid and exposed his real thoughts but he twinkled toed around this on Marr as just gesture politics.
However the rest of his interview seemed like a PR coup for the BNP - Griffin rebutted several points that had portrayed him as a pantomime villain [dogs allegedly called Anne and Frank aren't] - and he linked their repatriation views to current HMG policy!!!
He's a wily character that the media needs to take on much more intelligently IMO.
Don't agree Iain, I think the Marr interview helped Griffin and his mates.
As to the illegal immigrants issue I thought Griffin's response to that predicatable question from Marr was sufficiently plausible to appeal to those who are concerned about illegal immigration.
I on the other hand think the idea of having patrol boats constantly patrolling the North African coast would be unsustainable and extremely costly and could lead to all sorts of diplomatic incidents. It's a daft explanation in my view.
All Marr did today was provide Griffen a platform to rebut a number of wildly exaggerated or seemingly outdated claims about him and his party. Marr aided what seems a decontamination strategy. He couldn't nail down a floorboard on a bright sunny day and that is worrying.........
did iain actually allow these comments through
i find his use of bloggers approval of comments to be bizare unless i'm missing something
Golden Balls, I allowed those comments through
a) to show what kind of people BNP supporters can be
b) to show what I have to put up with sometimes
c) to leave the evidence should anyone actually carry through on their threats. So if I am found bloodied in an alleyway somewhere over the next few weeks, at least you'll know where to start to look to find who did it!
Whats the point of comment moderation iain if 11.32 and .35 get through anyway.also i agree with strapworld's post at 10.49 AM,very well said.
Nick Griffin was a disgrace, as we all knew he would be.
Shockingly, I did agree with him on one point. He said of immigration, instead of putting them in the poor communities, how about we put them in the wealthy communities in London and elsewhere, and see what happens to policy then?
I can't help thinking he had a point. Would the middle and upper classes be so moral with a whole community of Somalians on their doorstep?
I like to think so, but.........
Shame he wont "Nail" any of the current Government though IMO.
But then again maybe I`m expecting too much from the "Dear old Aunty Beeb" and Marr himself.
Oh did he pay for his own Glastonbury ticket? or was it our TV tax funding?
Sorry off topic but I don`t like the guy he`s in the similar mould to Nick "Number10 press release" Robinson.
Whether Griffin genuinely meant what he said about sinking immigrant boats or merely used it as provocative rhetoric, he has succeeded in bringing a serious issue to sustained and widespread attention. For that he deserves credit.
Europe operates a (theoretically) strict immigration policy. You might or might not agree with that policy, but that is what is in place. Desperate third-worlders attempt to circumvent the border controls via expensive and dangerous unofficial routes. Thousands die, often due to the callous indifference of unscrupulous traffickers.
And yet if they succeed in achieving clandestine entry to the Promised Land -- in the case of a boatload of 200 Africans, which is hardly clandestine, we might better call it fait accompli entry -- EU governments mutter platitudes about removal, then quietly accept them and allow them to melt into the shadow workforce.
So the EU gets a compliant, very low-paid near-slave labour force while the difficulty, cost and danger of the illegal entry routes acts as a useful filter to keep the numbers down to manageable levels.
And we're criticizing Griffin for pointing out that piece of hypocrisy, are we?
If EU borders are to be closed, then closure must be enforced, firmly. Preferably by ensuring that illegals are a) removed and b) prevented from earning money while they are here. I don't think we've quite reached the stage of blowing 'em out of the water pour encourager les autres (though it may come).
Iain, the problem is there are quite a large amount of people who would agree with Griffin about sinking those boats.
There's quite a lot of thoughtless anger aimed at immigrants, as they very much get the blame for other peoples situations - the whole British Jobs for British Workers meme for example - I really don't think you and many others get the aimless rage of many of the lesser-educated. With immigrants, Griffin provides them an easy target for which to blame for their misfortunes.
The BNP are reaping Labours policy of removing self-responsibility, and the general air of Not My Fault that's rotting away at British society.
Without some radical overhaul of how we deal with education, and how we handle people who leave school with little qualifications due to their own laziness or misbehaving, I really fear for the direction the UK is heading towards.
please ignore my last comment iain you already answered the question
at 1.58 pm.
Yes, the BNP is racist. Any research into the subject will tell you that its members hold some truly shocking views: some of the statements attributed to senior party figures would not look out of place in the Third Reich.
But then, look past this truth and consider the present situation: many people are actually considering voting for such a party. Rather than labelling these people as stupid, ignorant and/or racist, thereby increasing their determination to vote against the establishment, how about discussing the issues?
Griffin's talk of sinking boats is inhumane yet still some people seem to have sympathy with it. Wouldn't it be great to be able to counter him by saying 'We propose to enforce proper border control. We will have a strict appeals process. We will not allow these processes to drag on and on, costing the taxpayer money. Those that are permitted to stay will be compelled to learn English and settle into our culture. We will debate each and every one of these proposals' etc?
If politicians would take serious but fair action, such as the above for a start, then any suggestion of sinking boats would be exposed for what it is: a drastic and unjustifiable reaction.
Lastly, I agree entirely with those who have said or at least implied that Griffin, as an elected politician, should not be interviewed differently from other politicians. It is right that Marr questions him vigorously, exposing holes in his policies. But I bet that if such an approach were adopted with regard to Gordon Brown, he would trip himself up on more than a few occasions. He manages to do that without strong media scrutiny, after all. I'm certain that the BBC wouldn't expose the merest hint of racism, but I bet that they might find quite a bit of incompetence. That too is pretty harmful to our country.
You're a charitable soul, Iain. I was surprised to see Griffin being given a platform, the BBC doesn't usually permit dissent to its world view. I thought the Marr interview left Griffin largely untouched. He was allowed to spout without being seriously challenged on his answers. What does this say about the BBC??
I do not suppose those rather stupid, childish and ridiculous comments could not have come from people in a different party?
You condemn the BNP with what evidence? If you know who they are TELL THE WORLD.
Whilst I share your contempt for the BNP, let us not fall into the same drain.
Personally, I think they are the work of McBride's juveniles. They fit his thinking, do they not?
I didn't see the interview but, from reading some of the comments, it seems that he proposed housing some immigrants in affluent areas such as Hampstead.
Excellent: this is a truly brilliant comment, in my view. I am very glad that someone has said this (though it is a great shame that it had to be the racist leader of a racist party). I think we would very quickly find out just how liberal and tolerant the chattering classes are, should such a thing happen.
I have often commented on the hypocrisy of very wealthy politicians and journalists lecturing families from sink estates on the merits of multiculturalism. If you want to embark on a social experiment, then the very least you should do is take part personally, rather than shielding yourself from the potentially unsavoury bits.
I often think that your commentary is bang on the nail but with this interview, I can't agree with what you write at all.
Griffin looked a bit nervous but other than that he came across well. Marr was trying to provoke him with many questions but Griffin fell for none of it.
For the record, I have never voted BNP.
Iain, any views on your leaders support for the UAF/Searchlight thugs that Nick alluded to on the AM show?
"IF" the subject of immigration was out in the open, not hidden by the BBC as wonderful multiculturalism , its effects and causes discussed then the BNP would not have a cause celebre . Until then the BNP are the only one reasing the issue.
On the contrary Iain, I thought it was refreshing to see a politicians answer direct questions with direct answers. The fact you choose to ignore the quite clear explanation that he would propose sinking the vessels very close to land in shallow water with adequate protection should be applauded.
I do not believe you listened to his answer and explanation, it is his view and he is entitled to it, if he believes a sharp shock treatment policy at the heart of the problem, it might actually save hundreds if not thousands who perish at sea due to liberal pussy footing about. Show them the only way to get to the Promised Land is through application at the appropriate centre.
The fact you disregard his earlier answers just shows unlike me, you do not have an open mind and are not prepared to debate any issues with the BNP.
Just for good order Purpleline is not pro BNP but believes in freedom of expression.
"White people are beautiful" says Nick Griffin: http://www.thecrunchtimes.co.uk/html/090627nickgriffin.html
I understand now iain and i would have done the same in your postion.
I actually did think earlier this week you were using some of the homophobic comments as a way of stifling debate and accused you of this.
While it did do this in my opinion i now understand why you took that course of action.
A couple of weeks back, I visited Derby to visit my wife's aunt. We walked from our hotel on Burton Rd to the house, between the hotel and the house I saw not a single white face, what I did see and experience were gangs of asian youths and teenagers shouting and gesticulating at us over the course of the journey and making it very clear that they didn't want white people in "their" streets. I have never experienced this before, I have read that it happens in some northern towns but I'm not sure I believed it until now. So, though it is hardly likely to make me vote BNP I have to say that my eyes have been opened.
I wouldn't have let them thru but you're an old hand I guess. Arseholes.
I am not a BNP supporter and I did see the interview. I was surprised to see Griffin given such an easy ride. But then Marr gives most of his interviewees and easy ride. It just so happens that he usually interviews Labour supporters like Ed Millipede who was on later. But John Major, last week, was allowed to make his points without interruption.
Griffin was allowed to rebuke the journos for repeating what, if as untrue as he asserted, were slanders against him. I like the idea that the suggested sinkings in the Med were an example of provocative rhetoric.
Grifin has tapped into a mood that is common in the UK that this island is already crowded enough, and that 'multiculturalism' has already made social changes in a direction that the majority don't want to go in. Let's have a debate on how to change direction. If we don't we are headed for riots in the street.
And are the BBC really sending 420 people to cover the OPEN? How truly generous we license payers are!
In my view, the only way to deal with illegal immigrants and for that matter UK based criminals is to make them outlaws, this effectively means they are outside the protection of laws including Human rights laws.
This would enable the authorities to deport illegal immigrants and to give tougher sentences to home grown criminals.
This approach circumvents the Human Rights law, which although enacted upon us by the Labour party for probably good reasons has had a disastrous effect due to poor implementation by judges and an over zealous adherence to the law. We need to add a touch of flexibility into this law.
Finally, as a wind up to the French we should introduce for debate in the EU parliament the acceptance of migrants = to land mass and people per sq mile in each of the 27 countries. There is more than one way to skin a cat and it is time our minds were put to work to make the EU work in our favour.
Anti globalists should also hang their heads in shame, if we were to allow Nike and others to open up factories in Africa they could take on China and eventually develop a good stable Africa. Giving benefits and financial aid to the continent only serves to leave them dependent on that aid and assistance.
The Purpleline
P.S. I did it, but why do we feel the need to write I am not pro BNP or ever voted BNP. That should be stopped and I will hit myself over the bonce as hard as punishment for my stupidity
I think the post above from Golden Balls, which I take to be genuine, testifies in favour of Iain's position that reasoned argument is better than trading insults.
I think Marr did make him look rather bad. You notice how he drew Griffin into talking about the "Anne Frank" dogname accusation? He had Griffin himself raising past issues, talking in rather strange terms about "decommissioned" BNP positions. All together the focus became Nick and the BNP's bad reputation, rather than any current issue or policy. Marr can tick off that job as done, and forget about Griffin for six months or more.
However, Marr is delusional if he thinks that immigration is due to climate change, and Griffin was spot on when he suggested settling immigrants in leafy liberal suburbs. He's also got more than half a point about the boats issue- the EU is rather fascistic allowing hundreds to die each year crossing rather than enforcing and effective policy. On the other hand though attempts have been made with camps on the Morroccan coast, and Griffin prefers to ignore these.
Basically the danger is that people such as Marr have a superiority complex, a set of firmly held delusions, and this may make Griffin look far better than is healthy over time. They give the underdog the bones of a good argument by their magic multiculturalism. Marr didn't make a peep when Griffin mentioned Islamofascism; he prefers to pretend that it's absurd to talk about it as it doesn't exist. Unfortunately it does, and Marr and his cosy chums have no response.
I checked out both of them on wikipedia afterwards. Born in the same year ('59) and Oxbridge contemporaries. Is it really reasonable for Marr to look down his nose at Griffin I wonder? I think reasonable people will think not, and that may spell trouble in store.
I am afraid politicians are blind to the BNP its supporter and its concerns.
If governments did much more to address the genuine concerns of people the BNP would get little support. But no they just bury their heads in the sand and hope it will all go away. Just like Chamberlain & co did with Hitler.
Strapworld
Very good, thanks.
Jask
So Enoch Powell got it mostly right tho' he was talking mostly of West Indians not Asians (and a mere 50,000 at that).
The more I think of it, that comment of Griffin's about housing immigrant's in Hampstead is probably one that most of those on here would rather ignore (or vote Lab/Tory to make sure it didn't happen). This is something the BNP should press the BBC on whenever they are being hectored about their own racism.
Iain, I think you should get legal advice about anon comments @ 11:32 and 11:35.
“Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds; enthusiasm of the free and buoyant. education and free discussion are the antidotes of both.”
I really don't know why you even wnat to post about the BNP. They are of NO interest to fair minded people.
YAK40. I don't really feel qualified to comment on Enoch Powell, or whether he was right or wrong. I only wanted to say that before I visited Derby I didn't really buy into this white-flight/no-go zones thing but I think I do now. I haven't ever visited Bradford and places like that, and I wasn't expecting Derby to be like that. It was only the second time I've visited Derby and the only other time was for a wedding years ago, I have to say that the whole experience was utterly alien and disturbing. Perhaps it gave me an insight into the problems that (I suppose) BNP voters are talking about (or maybe not, I don't know). If I had to walk that route to work every day then I would probably have a different view of the race relations in this country than I previously held.
It's an interesting question, economic collapse, caused by peak oil, leading to mass migration. As we've passed peak oil, if no viable alternative is found, then we could expect a flood of immigrants . Certainly enough to overwhelm many European countries, in which case most people would eventually end up supporting Griffin. If, on the other hand, we develop an alternative to oil, then he may well end up being seen as an extremist.
A coin toss at this point.
"If governments did much more to address the genuine concerns of people the BNP would get little support."
I suppose in a similar vein one could argue that Hitler could have been stopped if only mainstream politicians had been prepared to crack down on the Jews, but I can't help feeling this old chestnut of an argument rather misses the point.
It'd no mystery why people vote BNP. Some people are not very nice and the tories (I concede to their credit) have largely stopped pandering to them. For now at least.
Griffin performed exceptionally well - he's blatantly had some extensive media training over the past few weeks. Although, to be fair, Marr was his usual self - he let's every interviewee walk all over him (the Mandelson interview, just over one month ago, shocked me to my core).
"Stick them in Hampstead and see how you people like it." - Brilliant line, and oh so true.
There's hope for our country yet!
It's bizarre that you allowed the personal threat comments through your moderation Iain.
If by doing this you're trying to make a point about how nasty and violent BNP supporters are just remember that they could have been from anti-BNP people in which case you have been taken for a ride.
You can tell he wasn't trained in Westminster Speak. He answered all the questions!
I was very impressed with his honesty. He put paid to some stupid myths about the BNP and he was honest about everything, especially the immigration issue, which has been a no-go area for far too long.
If the prats in Westminster don't shape up, I will certainly vote for him at the next elections. Call me raicst if you like. Thanks to our out of touch rulers, its as powerful a charge now as "poo-poo pants."
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.
canvas said
education and free discussion are the antidotes of both.”
I really don't know why you even want to post about the BNP.
..................................
Do try to think before you write
dear,your two comments above are contradictory.
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.
Where's your proof, Dale, and why did you not publish my last comment?
Remember when you had your last little hissy fit about BNP supporters? When you accused BNP members/sympathisers of sending you threatening/derogatory comments after you conducted an interview with the party's deputy... only for the guy to write on his own blog that he thought that you were quite cordial and fair throughout?
I have published your comments.
I don't see what BNP supporters comments have to do with Simon Darby's. Who do you think writes these nasty comments then? LibDems? Greens?
You only have to look through Stormfront to know exactly where they come from. I have had many threats over the years from fascists and they always use similar language.
to killaunty @ 7:59:
I was quoting Thomas Jefferson in case you didn't realise.
Freedom of speech also means freedom not to speak. And I sometimes wish Iain would choose not to speak about the BNP because it brings out every rightwing nutjob bigot in the universe. The anon comments are pure pollution.
Iain's call, my opinion, so killaunty > bog off.
Who do you think writes these nasty comments then? LibDems? Greens?
Unlikely, although I have no idea given that I have no proof either way. Where is your proof, exactly, that BNP members wrote the aforementioned threats?
You only have to look through Stormfront to know exactly where they come from. I have had many threats over the years from fascists and they always use similar language.
Yes, exactly. Anyone could replicate the language used on sites like that. For example say, I don't know, hmmm how about a member of UAF or a similar left-wing, Tory-funded violent mob? And to equate the fanatical, mentally ill members of Stormfront with members of the BNP is, even for someone prone to as much BNP-induced hysteria as yourself, just a tad far-fetched.
Mr Griffin handled himself very well.
Compare his honesty with the lies of our MP`s.
Do not forget, the people that represent us in the Palace of Westminster have, over the last 5o odd years committed Treason, Sedition, Fraud, Theft and many, many other assorted crimes!
I know where my vote is going!
was quoting Thomas Jefferson in case you didn't realise.
July 12, 2009 8:22 PM
makes not a jot of difference mr pretentious arse,
you still contradicted yourself
so your still a prat, just my opinion of course.
The offensive anonymous comments above will benefit the BNP's opponents more than the BNP, so you do have to wonder.
Wingnut is a useless interviewer, and always gives the Broonites and easy ride. However Griffin put his points across in a straightforward manner. BUT, by far the most interesting bit was Griffin's body language. Fingers tightly gripped together and a "keep calm, dont start ranting" expression on his face - bet he was squeezing his toes!. What I find is that if I read his "moderate" views, some of it seems kond of logical BUT when I see him, he always looks like someone who is gonna explode with mad rantings at any second.
Myself, if I was confronted with Wingnut asking any questions - even "can i buy you a coffee?" I would wnat to nut him. he really is an irritating tosser.
The intro to Marr's show has to be one of the most pretentious and unecessary things I've ever seen. Absolutely pathetic, and reflective of the man's condescending attitude.
P.S. Iain, any chance of you actually releasing the evidence that you have which has led you to unequivocally declare that the threats made against you emanate from members of the BNP?
Anonymous 9.46. Do one. Perhaps you would like to provide evidence it was anybody other than BNP sympathisers.
Iain,
Just one direct question to you, not relating to the interview but to the general topic, i.e. the 'rise' of the BNP.
What are your views on those who seek to harrass, threaten and repress BNP members? I'm thinking about those who violently interrupted Griffin's TV conference in Westminster recently.
Perhaps I'm playing devil's advocate, but which is the greater danger to democracy, indeed society in general: an elected politician expressing a view on a topic important to the electorate, or a violent group of people seeking to deny a man his basic right to freedom of speech?
Apologies if you've expressed a view on this before. If so, I must simply have missed it.
Anonymous 9.46. Do one. Perhaps you would like to provide evidence it was anybody other than BNP sympathisers.
That's a very tired and petty response Dale. What's wrong with you tonight?
I did not attribute the threats made against you to any individual or individuals affiliated with any organisation. Therefore, why should I have to provide evidence to back-up claims which I never made in the first place? Furthermore, I do not have access to the information that you do so your silly little response is just that: silly, childish and petty.
On the other hand, you have clearly stated that you believe the threats emanate from BNP-supporting individuals yet have provided no evidence to support your claim, nor have you adequately addressed the thoughts of those who question the veracity of, or basis upon which you make, your claims.
The best you seem to be able to come up with is "do one." Says a lot about yourself, it does.
P.S. You're using the exact same tactics which you used when you claimed, some weeks ago, that Nick Griffin stated that he would not represent his constituents belonging to an ethnic minority. It was a deliberate lie then and it is now. Furthermore, it's an untruth which you continued to stand by even when it was pointed out to you that you were clearly in the wrong and even when Griffin made clear remarks to the contrary.
If you can't beat 'em, lie about 'em and hope for the best, eh?
Iain,
1. What are your thoughts on how best to deal with the thousands of immigrants who attempt to enter the EU in boats from n.Africa?
2. Does the Conservative Part have policy or view on the issue?
If you think I am going to reply to a comment from someone called Nick Griffin Ate my Hamster, you have another thing coming.
And as for the Anonymous poster who keeps accusing me of this that or the other, perhaps if you had a name I might take you seriously.
As I say, do one. My mistake in this exchange was to even engage with an Anonymous poster. For all I know you posted the original comments you are somehow seeking to imply came from someone other than a BNP sympathiser. That's the trouble when you are too cowardly to give your own name. Wholly wrong conclusions can be drawn.
As I say, do one. My mistake in this exchange was to even engage with an Anonymous poster. For all I know you posted the original comments you are somehow seeking to imply came from someone other than a BNP sympathiser. That's the trouble when you are too cowardly to give your own name. Wholly wrong conclusions can be drawn.
Iain, you do make me sick sometimes. So you don't have the IP address of those making comments on your blog? And please do state where exactly it is stated on your blog that one must give their name in order to treated as an equal on this blog. If that is the case, then please do state that in some place where us mere mortals, who know that if we gave our real names when defending the BNP from smears that we'd probably lose our jobs, can see it.
You were perfectly capable of responding in a deregatory and petulent manner to my comments earlier when they were made anonymously, as you seem similarly capable of responding to those made by individuals using pseudonyms. It's amazing that you now suddenly have decided to a) throw your toys out of the pram and scream that you can't respond to me because I won't use my real name, and b) attempt to discredit my comments by trying to link me with the earlier threats made. Utterly pathetic Iain, I mean you have nothing to hide - do you?
Where is your proof?! It makes no difference whether or not it was me that made the disgusting comments (and it certainly wasn't, I can assure you of that - in fact, given their offensive and threatening nature, had they been made against me I would have immediately reported them to the police and you would have every right to do so).
You have once again failed to provide any shred of evidence that the comments were made by BNP-affiliated individuals. Instead, you have indulged in childish insults and attempted to smear me thus serving as a brilliant distraction from the fact that you have made baseless, unsubstantiated claims once again.
Iain, I'm now getting bored and you may, or may not, be relieved to know that this is the last time I will ask you: do you or do you not have any proof that BNP members made those threatening comments directed at you?
*derogatory and petulant
No Iain I didn't because you have done what I expected you to do: as usual, when it comes down to serious issues affecting our country and the debate centres upon a tricky, sensitive subject, you run away from meaningful debate unless it has some sort of camp or gay value or can be used to attack anyone other than your little Tory friends. True to form as always!
As I say, you have no rights to an answer if you won't give your name. Feel free to email me privately if you wish and I might take you seriously.
But what is blindingly obvious to anyone with half brain is that of course I don't have proof any more than you don't have proof than it wasn't. It was a reasonable conclusion to draw. Even you would have to admit that.
Smear you? I wouldn't waste my breath. It is you who have attempted to smear me with your ridiculous accusations. Why on earth you are wasting time having a spurious argument about who did or did not threaten to beat me up defies imagination.
As you say, I could report this to the Police. I will leave you guessing as to whether I have.
10.49. And a homophobe to boot. Nice. Go and play with your fascist friends. You'll get on well.
Errr Iain, I'm no homophobe. How dare you write that. I'm merely pointing out your propensity to emphasise your sexuality and to appreciate what can only be described as all things camp. Get over yourself and once again, how dare you accuse me of homophobia. you ate utterly hysterical
But what is blindingly obvious to anyone with half brain is that of course I don't have proof any more than you don't have proof than it wasn't. It was a reasonable conclusion to draw. Even you would have to admit that.
Yep, that'd be right Iain. Let's draw conclusions when we don't have any proof! None whatsoever Brilliant stuff. Of course it's more than a reasonable assumption to make, yet it's far from certain. Therefore, don't be so naive as to think that people in organisations such as UAF aren't well-versed in the arts of black propaganda.
As you say, I could report this to the Police. I will leave you guessing as to whether I have.
Good on you if you have, as much as I disagree with your verdict here, you should not have to put up with frightening threats under any circumstances. But please don't insuate that all your adversaries are aggressive, homophobic bigots.
Delighted to hear it. But read your previous comment and you can understand why that conclusion could be drawn.
"And a homophobe to boot. Nice. Go and play with your fascist friends. You'll get on well."
The call from somebody who has lost the argument.
Call them 'Racist', 'homophobe' anything to close down the argument.
if I was a very sensitive and hysterical person then yes, of course I could understand that. It was an utterly disgraceful and unfounded attack otherwise probably designed to smother meaningful debate
Well, that's as maybe, but look back over the comments on this thread, especially the early ones, and ask yourself this. If you saw someone with the name Nick Griffin Ate My Hamster, you'd probably not think they were worth replying to, wouldn't you?
My nickname is ironic, a quality which you don't seem to be able to recognise due to your sensitivities. I note with regret that you have yet to respond to my questions but don't hold any hope that that will change
Well, as you clearly are not of the nutterish tendency (!) I will indeed give you an answer - an honest one.
I haven't the faintest idea how to solve that problem. But sinking boats can never be part of the answer. What Griffin was suggesting was state sponsored murder.
I have no idea if the Conservative Party has a policy on the issue. I am not a spokesman for the Conservative Party, no matter what others might say!
These BNP threads always seem to get out of hand; in a sense I think we'd be better off without them. First we get the anonymous trolls; threatening to head-butt you or whatever that was supposed to mean... totally pathetic and the mark of someone with zero imagination and even less intellect. Followed immediately by some nincompoop calling you a faggot which despite the popularity of Eminem et al is simply not an insult on this side of the Atlantic and carries about as much of a sting for an Englishman as 'your momma's so fat...'
But then there's the rush to accuse these retarded souls of being Nazis, fascists and the like... is that supposed to earn Brownie points, or convey superiority, or just bore us to tears? And then the old 'far right' stuff... it's all highly distracting from the interesting debate that is contained herein if one can be bothered to wade through the crap.
I don't envy you your inbox Iain, but in future I think I'll steer clear of any thread with 'BNP' in the title; between the fruitcakes and the holier-than-thou brigade it is too frustrating and predictable to bear.
Compared to the upright,honest and selfless members that infest the HoC,the disgusting opinions of bnp supporters are not valid in a true democracy.
Thankfully Mr Dale is here to lead the poor mentally challenged souls to the local pound shop for intellectual sherbert
No EU government is going to start sinking shiploads of would be illegal immigrants. I think that by raising the issue Griffin has highlighted the fact that these boats, which are run by ruthless traffickers, need to be put out of action. There have been cases of the "asylum seekers" throwing their own children into the sea when Italian patrol boats try to turn them away, knowing full well that the Italians would be compelled to rescue them and reunite them with their parents. They are taking advantage of our humane nature.
How about making it known that any vessel sailing into EU waters without permission will be boarded, the engine will be decommissioned and the vessel will be towed back to it's port of origin where the occupants can be safely disembarked and directed to the nearest consulate where they can submit their application in the normal way.
Mr Dale. The days of the political and chattering classes controlling media output,thus ensuring only "approved" opinions are aired are coming to an end thanks to the medium of the net.The opinions of many concerned about mass immigration have been stifled for so long,you and others are now appalled by views you don't share.You said earlier that you have'nt the faintest idea of how to solve the problem.So we'll carry on like the past decade and more,tut tutting and ignoring the problem. After all,there are more pressing issues,such as when your next tv appearance is due
America Sinks the boats of Cubans (feet wet policy) so does Australia! All Nick Griffin is saying is lets stop being a soft touch.
This is what annoys people like Marr, they want to portray him as some soft of devil. Labour party dumped Militant & clause 4. Why can't Nick Griffin reform as well?
iain dale said.
What Griffin was suggesting was state sponsored murder.
Thats the kind of comment i'd expect from an idiot like canvas,
griffin was saying nothing of the sort and you know it !
I didn't think Griffin did too badly.
Now, I live in New Zealand now and I think the BNP is right about one thing, Britian is full up.
Liarbour opening the immigration floodgates means britain is now extremely overcrowded and it will get worse if more million enter the counmtry as expected.
I see that britain's population is to top 70 million in 20 years or so, largely thanks to immigration.
How many million extra houses will destroy what is left of the British countryside.
Now, Griffin might seem cruel advocating the the sinking of immigrant boats, but they will have liferafts dropped by to allow them to scurry back to the African shores.
After a few sinkings, the immigrants will get the message about trying to head over the med and in time they won't bother, realising the risks are too great.
In Australia, we have seen the opposite happen. The Rudd government has softened its entry regime for so-called refugges. Word has got back to the refugees and the people smugglers, so they are now heading towards Australia in ever greater numbers.
This means that more are dying too, so as blogger Andrew Bolt often notes, the 'kinder' Rudd policy is actually killing more peopl.
It is time political commentators stopped attacking the BNP in some kind of kneejerk reaction, but actually look in depth at what they are advocating.
The rise of the BNP only came about thanks to the failure of all the major parties on issues like immigration, the EUSSR, etc, etc.
Just one other thing, if you think it is wrong for an ethnic-based party like the BNP to operate, investigate the Maori Party in New Zealand, loved by liberals and part of a centre-right government too!
A ship can be challenged and forced to turn about with a warning that if it is caught again, the human cargo will be taken on to a navy ship up for repatriation, and the offending ship will be sunk.
I thought Griffin dealt with the accusations of fascism remarkably well.
If 'fascism' is defined as the use of violence for political ends by an all powerful state, clearly the Labour Party's open support for 'Unite Against Fascism's' direct action approach (ie: attack them physically) is fascist in essence.
l saw the Andrew Marr program today, living in Africa the Beeb is not as available as in the UK.l thought again your comments were seen through your petty, politically correct eyes, l wonder if it was because he mentioned your boy Cameron's funding that real fascist mob Searchlight .If you really want to gain a bit of international blogging respect you must comment with fairness, you can always add the reason you dislike the only party who are prepared to 'tell it as it really is' in closeing
"In Australia, we have seen the opposite happen. "
I suppose Australia's full up too?
Bnp are scum. A small amount of research will turn up many nasty facts and pics. Fortunately, they've made little headway in Scotland and i reckon they've peaked anyway. The Tories will take the bigot vote at the next election.
Censored from Griffin's interview because the papers review "accidentaly" overan:
“While what has happened in Iran is disgraceful, the reality is that the Hungarian government has used extreme force and violence against political dissidents in that country, particularly against the Jobbik party,” Mr Griffin said. “The Hungarian police regularly use violence against peaceful protestors and the EU never says a word. This is because the victims are not supporters of the EU con game,” he said.
“In Britain, we have the state-endorsed UAF/Searchlight organisation of far leftist extremists, who are official endorsed by all the other political parties. They have a publicly reported track record of violent attacks again the BNP. These have included attacks on individuals with claw hammers, public violence and attacks on people trying to attend BNP meetings,” Mr Griffin said.
“The leader of the Conservative party, David Cameron, is a founding member of the UAF group, which also boasts the signatures of leaders of the Labour, Liberal-Democrat and other parties. Yet for some reason, the EU is strangely silent on this state-endorsed violence against British political dissidents, organised by gangs who are supported with lottery and trade union money.”
Difficult to be sure whether griffin was nailed without seeing the whole thing.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6214838&postID=922673421654547153
An Donas
No,You don't need them.The welcoming Jocks have their own anti English fascism to channel their bigotry towards.
Given the way he's been made out as a demagogy; he equipped himself very well; giving the impression that the ruling classes are out to oppress him and by extensions anyone how has voted or feels like voting for the BNP. These attacks are self defeating and can only cause loss of credibility.
If you want to legitimately reduce his electoral success listen to the people how are voting for the BNP and Nick Griffen as he is a legitimate speaker for a large group of this country. Alternately continue the attacks are undemocratic action and see his support grow.
"he is a legitimate speaker for a large group of this country."
Morons
Post a Comment