Sunday, April 27, 2008

The Trials of Being Harriet Harman

Harriet Harman just admitted on Sunday with Adam Boulton that her blog passwords were 'Harriet' and 'Harman'. Almost as bad as 1234, wouldn't you say?! Having just had to change all my passwords on everything, following the theft of my laptop, I sympathise with her apparent difficulty in remembering something more complicated than her own name.

Adam then went on to skewer her nicely by saying that a Labour spin doctor had rung him up and told him to ask Harman about Lord Laidlaw's sex addiction and use of prostitutes - the lead story in today's News of the World. Had she any comment to make? She then said she hadn't read the story and was clearly uncomfortable. She proceeded to repeat her 'private view' that paying for sex should be outlawed. Later on in the paper review both George Galloway and Edwina Currie rightly said that it would be better for the Police to spend time enforcing laws that were actually enforceable. Prostitution has gone on since time began and no amount of law making will stop it. Instead of bleating about how prostitutes are exploited, politicians like Harriet Harman would do better to spend their time thinking about how it can be regulated along the lines of other European countries.

52 comments:

Anonymous said...

One real thing to do is to take control of our borders and thereby more or less eliminate people trafficking. (Of course, can't actually do that without contradicting instructions from Brussels.)

Anonymous said...

"Harriet Harman just admitted on Sunday with Adam Boulton that her blog passwords were 'Harriet' and 'Harman'."

Makes you wonder what the passowrds on those child benefit CD's might have been!!!!!!

Quink said...

For years it was possible to access the members' content on the Prospect magazine website with the username "prospect" and the password "prospect".

Anonymous said...

hariet probably the most sexist politican in the commons today

she refused to allow a Tory to speak because he was a man :-)

loony !!

Chris Paul said...

The difference is Iain that no-one will find it in the slightest bit suspicious that HH had such weak passwords. However "IT security expert" Grant Shapps' contention that his was 1234 is quite frankly a blatant lie to cover up some old fashioned personation of e.g. a Lib Councillor - now gone back to Labour - in the trenches of Dave Cameron's Conservatives joke candidate Tony Lit's campaign.

It must be said that you were probably the only person in the whole wide world that even affected to believe Shapps' utter nonsense.

Mostly Ordinary said...

If you can't enforce the laws that outlaw prostitution what makes you think you could enforce any regulatory framework for it?

John W said...

My wife works with prostitutes and those who are affected by prostitution. 90% of sex workers have mental health problems and 90% are addicted to drugs, this includes so called 'high class hookers'.

The most vulnerable in our society are driven into prostitution by desperation, often because they have become unable to look after themselves and most have come under the influence of people willing to exploit this.

The happy sex worker who 'loves what they do' is a cosmopolitan, middle-class, liberal myth. Some of the weakest in our society are abused by (overwhelmingly) men with money who, when challenged about their behaviour use a line of being 'entitled' to sex, and unable to get it from anywhere else.

This situation is absolutely despicable, sexual satisfaction is not one of our human rights. And an arrangement that is essentially rape of those on the whole unable to protect themselves and very often forced into such a position in life is not justifiable.

I really dislike Harriet Harman from deep down in my belly, and think she should be thrown out of the house for her rank dishonesty over donations to her campaign for deputy leader - but in this instance she is right.

Find out if there is a project working with prostitutes in your area, and go and volunteer for it - when you have met and talked with one or two of them come back to me and say there is nothing we should do about it. It seems strange that the Europeans are derided so often for their influence on our politics but when they do something as horrendous as 'regulating' prostitution they are to be emulated.

Prostitution may be a very old practice, but so are infanticide, murder and rape.

javelin said...

I'm liberal have to agree on Harman - for the same reason that I believe Cannabis should be made illegal.

She is just a raving loony femminist who doesn't care that her policies have left has left two-thirds of kids after divorce not seeing their fathers, and how many children have descended into a Lord of the Flies lifestyle. Good thing too she would say - she is mentally unhinged.

Protecting the vunerable. This should be the priority of any Government - put your personal views aside. Cannabis, parental alienation and prostitution have no place in the mind of a reasonable person.

Anonymous said...

One way or another we all pay for sex.

Noelinho said...

I agree with the sentiments, Iain, but I think you'll find your conclusion is the same as Harriet's. As far as I know, in Sweden it is legal to sell sex, but illegal to buy, thus meaning that it is those who use prostitutes rather than the prostitutes themselves that are targeted. Thus, the women are not victimised. As far as I am aware, that seems to work well, and is exactly what Harriet Harman is wanting to see in the UK.

John said...

Harriet Harman think? Why bother advocting that then? What's the point?

Anonymous said...

o/t

Newmania:

You asked a while back about the % of legislation emanating from the eu. Over on eureferandum they currently have a posting on that topic.

John Miller said...

No, Mr Paul, it is not in the least bit suspicious.

These are very simple minded people, after all. The great thing about being a lawyer (as most of these people are) is that it rarely matters what you do, its what you say that counts.
When people like Harman, Balls, Brown and Straw tell us they are towering intellectuals who know what's best for us, surprisingly, it simply isn't true.
They are naive, credulous, not very bright people, who went into politics because there it matters not at all what you do, only what you say.

They pretend to be experts on an amazing array of subjects. They have relentlessly pursued the national ID database. So the fact that they have such childish attitudes to security is frightening, but entirely predictable.

Anonymous said...

"Harriet Harman just admitted on Sunday with Adam Boulton that her blog passwords were 'Harriet' and 'Harman'."

She should try something more personal, 'fat' and 'thick' for example.

John W said...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Adrian Yalland said...

I think John W has a sound point on this. I tend to be of the opinion that less legislation is usually better - but on prostitution I am not sure.

I do however see a difference between those who work in brothels - which I presume offer them a degree of protection - and those who stand on street corners, who seem to me to be the most desperate of types. Perhaps this is where things can be regulated - allowing regulated brothels, with proper protection for the women and the customer - but much MUCH tougher sentences for those who kerb crawl.

Until recently, a friend lived right on the border of Southampton's red light area, and when visiting I would often see these poor creatures plying their trade. They looked rough, almost all were young, many seemed under nourished. They were pitiful and pathetic and my heart really went out to them. I felt angry that they were resorting to this trade.

But the other side of the coin is that they are also known to be tough as old boots - and would rip you off if they could - including stealing phones and wallets and things. Afterall, what are you going to do - call the police?

The point is that women who turn to prostitution should be helped out of the trade, but protected whilst they are in it.

But I agree with Iain - you will never stop it.

As for the Peer with the sex addiction, I think he got found out because he was so brash and OTT about it. If you go discreetly to a brothel, no-one is likely to know. But if you fly a group of hookers half way arund the world and host an orgy......come on man, a bit of common sense!

Bill Quango MP said...

Security update completed:
Your computer is now ready for you to enter your new username and password.

Username: Harman
Password: Harriet

Auntie Flo' said...

If body snatcher wasn't so imcompetent and got on with her job instead of spouting pc rubbish and stealing our family graves she might not feel so clearly terrified of us people out here that she feels the need to protect herself against us, would she?

Then she might not feel compelled to wear a STAB VEST, would you believe, while walking around her own constituency with an armed police guard.

Why are you so terrified of the people of England, Ms Harman, don't you trust us?

Ordovicius said...

Prostitution has gone on since time began and no amount of law making will stop it. Instead of bleating about how prostitutes are exploited, politicians like Harriet Harman would do better to spend their time thinking about how it can be regulated along the lines of other European countries.

Hear hear

Anonymous said...

A Pan-European solution? I suppose sex is a universal language but that's a step too far....

judith said...

Prostitution cannot be eliminated, but prostitutes should get the same legal protection as any other worker.

I see no reason why brothels should not be licensed, in the same way that any other workplace is, together with sensible health&safety regulation.

verity said...

Why regulate it at all? It's a private transaction and nothing to do with the state.

John W, whose political views we can make an astute guess at as he refers to prostitutes by this NuLabour term "sex workers" to pretend to legitimise it, writes: "Prostitution may be a very old practice, but so are infanticide, murder and rape."

Uh-huh. Except in infanticide, murder and rape, there is no consent.

"The happy sex worker who 'loves what they do' is a cosmopolitan, middle-class, liberal myth." No, it's not. Not one person in a billion would believe this. I have no doubt that some smart prostitutes tell this to some stupid clients to make the client feel good about himself ("I'm giving her what she wants!") and get a bigger tip.

Keep the state out of a private transaction. Who cares what the Swedes do?

Anonymous said...

Verity said ...
"The happy sex worker who 'loves what they do' is a cosmopolitan, middle-class, liberal myth." No, it's not. Not one person in a billion would believe this. I have no doubt that some smart prostitutes tell this to some stupid clients to make the client feel good about himself ("I'm giving her what she wants!") and get a bigger tip."

Well do you agree with John W or not? You appear to be contradicting yourself.

Yvette Cooper said...

Trials of being Harriet Harman that's a good one wha' abow' ve trials of being Yvette bleedin' Cooper snotfair oo asda go on Newsnight and look a twat cos no blokes got ve balls sorry ed bu' its troo?

one night in bangkok said...

I think it's funny when any blogger or journalist talking about prostitution begins along the lines of "I've never visited a prostitute, or been a prostitute myself, but..."

When half of them probably have, they're just pretending otherwise. I imagine some of the commenters here getting their leg over in such a manner.

Chris Paul said...

Iain's insistence that Shapps ever had the password 1234 on anything is a load of old bollocks he should stop peddling.

And his smear-jeer re Laidlaw is very unedifying also.

Whatever party the old goat sits for. Thanks for the correction Iain.

I'm proud not to know which party the man represents actually. And to know the difference between Tory Twaddle on Shapps and the truth. And this cake-and-eat-it prurient smear plus liberalism as practised by Dale and also Galloway.

Strange bed fellows though you might be.

Anonymous said...

"My wife works with prostitutes and those who are affected by prostitution. 90% of sex workers have mental health problems and 90% are addicted to drugs, this includes so called 'high class hookers'."

What does your wife do? Does she go around and meet all prostitutes, or is this a self-selecting group that are looking for help?

I've read accounts of women who do it for a simple reason - economics. They want a better life for their children and are prepared to do whatever it takes to get that.

verity said...

[2:21] No. I'm not contradicting myself. It is not an "urban middle class myth" - to use a drab phrase. As I wrote, no adult is stupid enough to believe this (oh, OK, Harriet Harman). It is not an "urban myth". It has no traction. Some prostitutes - for instance that "singer" who was getting $5,000 a whack, so to speak, from the Governor of New York was smart enough to tell him what he wanted to hear. No one else but the John believes this. So it is not a myth. Everyone knows it is not true.

One Night in Bangkok - Well, you are a pathetic little thing, aren't you? "When half of them probably have, they're just pretending otherwise. I imagine...". Yes, you certainly do. Why do you think that what you "imagine" is of the faintest interest to the adults who post here?

M. Hristov said...

Verity : Contract killing is a private transaction between two people. I suppose you think that should be legalised. Why do you think that prostitution is any more savoury? Young girls ruined by over use. Very nice and humane (not)!!!

verity said...

2:21,

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

Tom FD said...

She is rapidly becoming as valuable to frontline politics as John Prescott used to be!

Anonymous said...

"Later on in the paper review both George Galloway and Edwina Currie rightly said that it would be better for the Police to spend time enforcing laws that were actually enforceable. Prostitution has gone on since time began and no amount of law making will stop it."

I hope this means you accept drugs should be legalised on the same basis. The drug laws are completely unenforceable too.

verity said...

[2:56 Verity Manqué] Why don't you give up? You have a tin ear. Mimicry isn't your metier. Trainspotting as a hobby should not be beyond your talents.

M Hristov - That is ridiculous because the the killee does not consent to the action performed on him by either the purchaser of the service (the one who orders the murder) or the one who executes it.

Don't be so silly. How dare you assume you have the domain over other people's bodies? If they want to rent them out, for whatever reason, how does this merit your interference?

Tom FD - All I know is, Harriet Harman makes John Prescott sick.

one night in bangkok said...

Oh noes, I've been cut down by the mighty verity! How will my self-esteem ever recover? I might as well just go and end it all now.

And it will be someone else's fault, not mine.

Anonymous said...

verity said...
"I am large, I contain multitudes."

Multitudes of what?

Cyber Nat said...

Wendy Alexander may have a cunning plan to deal with the SNP.

verity said...

[5:44] - Haven't a clue. Ask the vacuous little troll who thinks appending someone else's name to his idiot post is a skill.

I pointed out, above, that the post wasn't written by me.

matt severn said...

Expressing serious concerns about the exploitation of women is not bleating, no matter which party the politician saying it comes from.

verity said...

Matt Severn, I would advise you to mind your own business. If the prostitutes are under-age, it most assuredly is a concern for the law.

If they are of legal age and choose to go into prostitution, that is not the concern of posturing busybodies such as yourself.

In addition, I am assuming you have never seen prostitutes interviewed, or read interviews with them, otherwise you could not have failed to notice that female prostitutes see themselves as the exploiters and men as the exploited.

They think men are stupid, and that's why they refer to them as tricks.

Pimping, however, is illegal and the woman can get help from the police if she chooses. Most don't choose. That's their business. You socialists must control your urge to legislate every last shred of human behaviour, so ditch the paternalism and back off.

young pretender said...

The News of the World talked this story up so much that you'd think a tri-lingual bisexual had three tongues!

Newmania said...

If a woman ,or man ,wishes to sell sex what is the problem then ?I can see there are un-edifying ancillary consequences but morally, what is the problem at this final point ?The thing is surely to create a society in which such a transaction is not the everyday alternative it is now. This means rolling back the revolting tide of permissive post sixties relativism and creating a moral rearmament.
The people pretending to care about prostitutes( but usually only indulging in half baked prurient fantasy) are often the same ones responsible for the moral collapse , rape and degradation we see all around us .

The progressive left

(The WI have some good ideas actually but then they are not just posturing)

'Sex workers' ha ha that is New Labour-ese. I like the way they call the poor dupes that finance their fat state sinecures "Clients"

Anonymous said...

Verity. Stop whingeing about being impersonated and get yourself a proper identity.

matt severn said...

verity:

1. I am not a socialist.
2. Many prostitutes, forced into it against their will by poverty, people trafficking, drug addiction, mental illness etc will most assuredly identify as oppressed.
3. Legalising or regulating prostitution will not help those women or the fabric of wider society.

Adrian Yalland said...

Verity/Newmania. We usually agree on quite a few things as we all seem to believe a minimal amount of govt. regulation is better.

But I think that you have to agree that many prostitutes enter the game through coercion (people smuggling)or because they are so desperate they have no other alternative they can see.

However, some do probably go on the game because it is a lucrative business and easy to make quick cash.

I probably think that prostitution should be legal, but that doesn't mean that prostitutes should be denied legal protection and help to get out of what is a fairly grubby job. I do think that kerb crawling should be targetted though.

We need an open debate about it.

verity said...

Matt Severn - "2. Many prostitutes, forced into it against their will by poverty,". You mean the council flat, free electricity, gas and water plus "benefits" to pay for food, lottery tickets, alcohol and ciggies equates to "poverty"?

It's not "poverty", Matt Severn, but drug habits. That is their problem and it's not my problem. They can deal with it or not deal with it, yes? If they want to fuel their drug habit, they can become prostitutes. They are free people, prostitution is legal and that is their choice.

I am not a monitor of other people's thoughts or choices of legal activities.

How does their failure translate into my problem and the problem of others who work for a living?

You are a wee bit obsessive on this subject, as you refer to "legalising it". Prostitution has always been legal in Britain. It is legal today, as indeed it should be. Soliciting on the street is not legal because it inconveniences other people - especially women who are not prostitutes. Same for kerb crawling by men. Not legal and is an assault on innocent women going about their daily business. But prostitution is perfectly legal.

Frankly, this society has one hell of a lot more important things, like aggressive Islam from the people we allowed into our own back yard, drug crime and teen-age murderers of adults, to worry about than someone paying for a quick roll in the hay at a price agreed upon by both parties.

verity said...

Matt Severn, who writes: 3. Legalising or regulating prostitution will not help those women or the fabric of wider society.

I've pointed out in the post above that prostitution isn't illegal. Do please get this point before posting again under an illusion; and then you add: "will not help those women or the fabric of wider society."

I have absolutely no interest in helping "those women".

See, this is where free trade conservatives and controlling socialists differ. We don't feel driven to "help" people who are living a life that's not to our taste, but is none of our business.

As Newmania says: "The people pretending to care about prostitutes( but usually only indulging in half baked prurient fantasy) are often the same ones responsible for the moral collapse , rape and degradation we see all around us .

"The progressive left"

Well said, Newmania!

Matt Severn: We're not interested in your fantasies about "saving" prostitutes. They're living lives independent of your fatherly concern.

asquith said...

I'm not so sure, Matt Severn. If women are in legitimate, regulated, (and dare I say tax-paying) brothels their welfare can be guaranteed by the police. They won't be on the streets doing that repulsive business that is carried out now. Many brothels are half-connived at. But we don't know if illegally trafficked or exploited women are in there.

Legalise prostitution & drugs, then you'll knock all the really lowlife dealers/pimps out with one blow.

beverly johnson said...

I am a prostitute and frankly I do not see myself as exploited or vulnerable. I came from a poor family background with minimal education with one advantage , men found me attractive. I turned this to my advantage and at 35 I am financially secure for the rest of my life , I have 3 houses of my own, have bought my parents a house , work when I want to ( at £150 per hour with minimal outgoings you can see why) , I pay taxes through my "model " company , I have over a million invested and I have a very good life .
Maany of my clients are regulars and good friends but I also have an enjoyable social life outside of work. I also now have a degree via Open University and 3 ex-collegues used the business to assist their getting degrees in accountancy, law and teaching.
I have several friends in the business and none feel exploited. The numbers on drugs are zero , your correspondent whose wife works with prostitutes clearly works at the street level not with brothels or escorts.
There are ample laws already governing drug dealing, forced sex workers , prostitution etc and NO more are needed . all the police should do is implement the laws.
The problem with failures like Harperson is that they do not understand that escorting is one of the best routes for female emancipation and financial security , they like to occupy a position of superiority over what they describe as their own less fortunate sisters . Frankly I look down on her and other of her ilk.

Anonymous said...

beverly johnson said...

"Frankly I look down on [Harperson] and other of her ilk."

You are very right to do so. Excellent post by the way, injecting some much needed honesty and reality into the, mostly, nonsense being spouted here.

It is very noticeable here, and in life generally, that very few women have a problem with prostitution and most of those who do clearly have personal problems or very small brains or both. The men usually know nothing about it presumably because they are so insubstantial they are too embarrassed even to hire a professional service. The rubbish they spout can only come from boys still stuck at believing girls are made of sugar and spice, sexist pigs.

verity said...

Asquith - You're running off at the mouth again, drooling naive rubbish that has already been addressed.

Prostitution is legal. L-e-g-a-l. That means it's not against the law. Please don't write: "Legalise prostitution...". It is legal.

Matt Severn, other than drug addicts, interviews and articles I have read about prostitutes makes clear that prostitutes regard themselves as using men. Beverly Johnson above would seem to be of the same opinion. They don't feel exploited. Calm down and get out of the business of trying to regulate how other people live.

Jebediah Buxton said...

I'm sick of the argument that prostitutes are 'desperate and have no alternative'. Eh? If I was desperate I'd get a cleaning job and a room in a hostel, not a short skirt and a crack-habit.

Pity those who are victims of people-smuggling by all means - and get our fancy new Border Patrol to do something about it - but let's not pretend that the majority of prostitutes have 'no choice'.

Oh and Verity's absolutely right about 'the myth that never was'.

M. Hristov said...

Verity : We do not own our own bodies. That is a tenet of English and Welsh Law. You cannot sell your blood because you don’t own it. Americans can sell their blood because they do own their own bodies. In addition, you cannot force your Executors or Administrators to bury or cremate you,. They can do what with your body ,because you do not own it. So, you are in error (not for the first time).

Anonymous said...

verity said...

"Calm down and get out of the business of trying to regulate how other people live."

Well said, Verity. You are correct (not for the first time).