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Tuesday, November 20, 2007
The Death of ID Cards
For some time the Conservatives have argued that government cannotbe trusted with personal information. If today isn't proof of that, I don't know what is.
Today marks the death knell of identity cards.
UPDATE: It seems George Osborne agrees!
25 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Tory shadow chancellor agrees with Tory policy shock.
It's refreshing and gratifying that the Conservatives came round to the Lib Dem way of thinking on this issue, if only they hadn't voted for it in the first place!
Alistair Darling's statement that procedures have been changed does not improve confidence in the government. The data loss was caused by officials not following procedures. I just wonder how much other data has been "mislaid" by other "junior" officials in other government departments and agencies not following rules.
A protest rally is due to take place in Oxford this evening - 20 November 2007 - against a debate on free speech scheduled to take place at its prestigious Union next Monday to which David Irving and Nick Griffin have been invited as speakers.
Whether next Monday’s debate goes ahead remains to be seen. Apparently, the matter is to be decided after a Union meeting on Friday when members will be asked to vote on the issue.
Vote: Should David Irving and Nick Griffin be allowed to participate in a debate on free speech at the Oxford Union?
We have always voted against the ID Cards bill, and if the Lib Dems had bothered to turn up to the first reading we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place!
I wouldn't be so sure, Ian. On tonight's PM programme Jane Kennedy, Secretary to the Treasury was arguing that the IR systems were old and therefore less secure, whereas the shiny new e-enabled identity scheme was more modern and therefore would be more secure.
Her qualifications for making this statement include "residential child care officer at Liverpool City Council (LCC) (1979-1983) and care assistant at LCC Social Services (1983-88). Other past roles include Branch Secretary (1983-88) and Area Organiser (1988-92) of the National Union of Public Employees (NUPE)".
This is related to poor postal security particularly thefts of CDs and DVDs which are out of control. Some scrote has pocketed the disks, taken them home and found that they're not Shrek. With a bit of luck he's chucked them by now (hence the delay in declaring the loss). If he hasn't he'll be on the next flight to Moscow.
ID Cards will somehow be spun to be necessary to prevent any future reoccurences. Just like HIPs help buyers and sellers streamline the process of homebuying ho ho ho.
Laban said... "I wouldn't be so sure, Ian. On tonight's PM programme Jane Kennedy, Secretary to the Treasury ....Her qualifications ....So we can all sleep easier in our beds ..."
Have a look at the qualifications of some of her Tory predecessors - Jonathan Aitken, Kenneth Clarke, Michael Portillo, David Mellor. What financial qualifications did they have?
General Broon can go back up North across the border and have EUSSR ID cards in his own country Scotland!, i have absolutley NO problem with that! - in fact i would like that very much!.
As for England, all communist McLabour Scots shut keep their mouth firmly SHUT!.
From 1980 – 2002 I spent the majority of my time living outside the UK – in Europe, the Far East and the Middle East. In all of the countries in which I lived, whatever their political systems, I was required to have and to carry an Identity Card. At no point did I think that this was an infringement of my privacy or my rights – on the contrary I believe that it enhanced them. The ID was my proof, as a foreigner, that I had a right to live in the country of which I was resident. Nationals of the countries had similar cards and these showed their rights as a citizen of the country – which in some cases were somewhat different from my rights as an alien resident. The ID cards were also useful in a variety of situations when I need to prove who I was. They carried a photograph which was very helpful when a Photo ID was needed (e.g. for some air travel) or in support when I was buying a product or a service.
The ID card system that I was part of abroad obviously had information about me stored in it. This varied from country to country – for example in the Middle East it carried information about my health (that I had “passed” an AIDS test, for example) whereas this was not required in Hong Kong or in The Netherlands.
To me the debate about ID cards has been dreadfully skewed to an inane debate about whether or not we should have them in the UK not what they will contain. My experience is that there are real benefits to individuals to the carrying of an ID card and I take the view that to object to them “in principle” as an infringement of civil liberties is absurd. If a country as liberal as The Netherlands has ID cards for all residents why then should we not have them in the UK? The issue is not about the principle but should be about the content of the ID card. We should not be arguing about whether we have them but about what is stored on them. That’s a real debate about civil liberties not the specious and facile debate that is currently underway.
25 comments:
Tory shadow chancellor agrees with Tory policy shock.
Dear Iain
Thanks once again for doing our job for us.
You really should give up this blogging lark. It'll never catch on.
Come and work full-time at CCO, and Maidstone should be a cake walk.
George & Dave
ID cards aren't dead until someone has found out how to replicate fingerprint and iris patterns.
It's refreshing and gratifying that the Conservatives came round to the Lib Dem way of thinking on this issue, if only they hadn't voted for it in the first place!
Darling was silly enough to try and suggest that on the day the Government lost millions of people's data that ID cards would be safe.
Alistair Darling's statement that procedures have been changed does not improve confidence in the government. The data loss was caused by officials not following procedures. I just wonder how much other data has been "mislaid" by other "junior" officials in other government departments and agencies not following rules.
It certainly is the end for ID cards - this lot couldn't run a whelk stall. And Darling surely is toast after this.
A protest rally is due to take place in Oxford this evening - 20 November 2007 - against a debate on free speech scheduled to take place at its prestigious Union next Monday to which David Irving and Nick Griffin have been invited as speakers.
Whether next Monday’s debate goes ahead remains to be seen. Apparently, the matter is to be decided after a Union meeting on Friday when members will be asked to vote on the issue.
Vote: Should David Irving and Nick Griffin be allowed to participate in a debate on free speech at the Oxford Union?
YES or NO?
Vote on this at:
http://www.1party4all.co.uk
If that is so, why did the Tories let the ID Cards Bill become law when they were in a position to have stopped it from happening?
Lost or Stolen.
Stolen by who !!!.
Who benefits from the theft.
Well I wonder. Leakers of emails from civil service offices may have just gone one step further.
allan at 4:01pm
We have always voted against the ID Cards bill, and if the Lib Dems had bothered to turn up to the first reading we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place!
A good way to avoid ID cards and info from the ID database being lost?
Let's get David Cameron in 10 Downing Street!
4.45 mong - Um, not true. Tories for ID cards in 2005. Remember?
Could someone please tell Allan to get his facts right
I wouldn't be so sure, Ian. On tonight's PM programme Jane Kennedy, Secretary to the Treasury was arguing that the IR systems were old and therefore less secure, whereas the shiny new e-enabled identity scheme was more modern and therefore would be more secure.
Her qualifications for making this statement include "residential child care officer at Liverpool City Council (LCC) (1979-1983) and care assistant at LCC Social Services (1983-88). Other past roles include Branch Secretary (1983-88) and Area Organiser (1988-92) of the National Union of Public Employees (NUPE)".
So we can all sleep easier in our beds ...
This is related to poor postal security particularly thefts of CDs and DVDs which are out of control. Some scrote has pocketed the disks, taken them home and found that they're not Shrek. With a bit of luck he's chucked them by now (hence the delay in declaring the loss). If he hasn't he'll be on the next flight to Moscow.
Carry on regardless
ID Cards will somehow be spun to be necessary to prevent any future reoccurences. Just like HIPs help buyers and sellers streamline the process of homebuying ho ho ho.
"ID cards aren't dead until someone has found out how to replicate fingerprint and iris patterns."
They don't need to. The patterns would be digitised and stored as computer data. Steal it/lose it just the same.
Laban said...
"I wouldn't be so sure, Ian. On tonight's PM programme Jane Kennedy, Secretary to the Treasury ....Her qualifications ....So we can all sleep easier in our beds ..."
Have a look at the qualifications of some of her Tory predecessors - Jonathan Aitken, Kenneth Clarke, Michael Portillo, David Mellor. What financial qualifications did they have?
They can't be trusted with personal information but they can be trusted with every other aspect of your life and property?!?
Talk about straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel. You English sure are strange about where you draw the lines.
I saw Jane Kennedy on Newsnight.
Hilariously thick.
Not only today but the disater that has been every GIOvernmental Computer project.
Iain, ID cards are already with us . When you update tyour psspaort you will get one won`t you. Isn`t already done in effect?
When this calamity has sunk in I think the government could face a serious back bench backlash on ID cards.
General Broon can go back up North across the border and have EUSSR ID cards in his own country Scotland!, i have absolutley NO problem with that! - in fact i would like that very much!.
As for England, all communist McLabour Scots shut keep their mouth firmly SHUT!.
From 1980 – 2002 I spent the majority of my time living outside the UK – in Europe, the Far East and the Middle East. In all of the countries in which I lived, whatever their political systems, I was required to have and to carry an Identity Card. At no point did I think that this was an infringement of my privacy or my rights – on the contrary I believe that it enhanced them. The ID was my proof, as a foreigner, that I had a right to live in the country of which I was resident. Nationals of the countries had similar cards and these showed their rights as a citizen of the country – which in some cases were somewhat different from my rights as an alien resident. The ID cards were also useful in a variety of situations when I need to prove who I was. They carried a photograph which was very helpful when a Photo ID was needed (e.g. for some air travel) or in support when I was buying a product or a service.
The ID card system that I was part of abroad obviously had information about me stored in it. This varied from country to country – for example in the Middle East it carried information about my health (that I had “passed” an AIDS test, for example) whereas this was not required in Hong Kong or in The Netherlands.
To me the debate about ID cards has been dreadfully skewed to an inane debate about whether or not we should have them in the UK not what they will contain. My experience is that there are real benefits to individuals to the carrying of an ID card and I take the view that to object to them “in principle” as an infringement of civil liberties is absurd. If a country as liberal as The Netherlands has ID cards for all residents why then should we not have them in the UK? The issue is not about the principle but should be about the content of the ID card. We should not be arguing about whether we have them but about what is stored on them. That’s a real debate about civil liberties not the specious and facile debate that is currently underway.
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