political commentator * author * publisher * bookseller * radio presenter * blogger * Conservative candidate * former lobbyist * Jack Russell owner * West Ham United fanatic * Email iain AT iaindale DOT com
is it just me or did anyone else get annoyed when that pratt Bliar appeared at the cenotaph. how can that disgusting war criminal have the gall to turn up after what he did to our troops.
The Veteran We came upon him sitting in the sun, Blinded by war, and left. And past the fence There came young soldiers from the Hand and Flower Asking advice of his experience. ****** And he said this,and that, and told them tales, And all the nightmares of each empty head Blew into thin air; then, hearing us beside, " Poor chaps, how'd they know what it's like " he said. ********** And we stood there, and watched him as he sat, Turning his sockets where they went away, Until it came to one of us to ask " And you're . . . how old? " " Nineteen, the third of May. " ******* Margaret Postgate Cole
My remembering is focussed on those who have yet to die. Our kids are still out there risking their lives for what? A real and achievable goal? With the mediocre kit we've given them?
There are two things that we should be able to do to help them.
1. Legalise Heroin. This might bust the narcotics funding for the enemy in Afghanistan. Sod American opinion on this issue. Americans have already amply proven their collective stupidity.
2. Give our troops the best kit money can buy, and plenty of it. This our biggest moral failure. Their gear is falling apart from old age and we're here at home making no noticeable sacrifice.
3. Institute a percentage draft. The army appears to consist of a warrior class, mostly with expensive accents, and working class "other ranks". None of them are much like us. If some of us, Middle England, had to die out there then wouldn't things be a little different? You bet your life.
It is a good day to stop and pause. To think about those who came before us and gave their lives, so that we can live.
Somewhere in your family history is a sepia photograph of a relative in military uniform. Someone who perhaps looks comic now but he (and even she) will have known more than you will ever know, unless you are a soldier. He (or she) will have known things that you must pray you will never learn.
As for those who are fighting now, Kipling had a good poem about old ingratitude. Plus ca change.......
“TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints, Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind", But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!”
Medals back for Remembrance Sunday First Minister Rhodri Morgan and Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones have led Wales' services of remembrance on Sunday honouring the war dead. The ministers joined war veterans at the national service of remembrance marking Armistice Day in Cardiff.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7088590.stm
And Scotlands:
Scotland marks Remembrance Sunday
Alex Salmond laid a wreath at a service in Sri Lanka Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond has taken part in a special service in Sri Lanka to mark Remembrance Sunday. Mr Salmond attended the Commonwealth Graves Commission cemetery in Colombo. He has remained in the country since the 2014 Commonwealth Games decision.
Services are being held across Scotland to commemorate the moment when fighting stopped in November 1918 at the end of World War I.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7089030.stm
And finally, the "Yoo Kays"
Nation and troops honour war dead
The Queen led the commemoration at the Cenotaph Thousands of war veterans have marched past the Cenotaph memorial in London to mark Remembrance Sunday. After the commemoration of Britain's war dead began with a gun blast and two minutes' silence on Whitehall, the Queen laid the first wreath of poppies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7089225.stm
"English" Dead not even worth a mention.
McLabour and EU Subservient "BBC" making even the War Dead "Political".
I only knew one of them. I wish he was still in the world today, he made it more fun and more amusing. I suspect like most of the servicemen I knew he accepted the risks to fight a true evil.
Ironic ' aint it . . Blair sanctimoniously creeps onto the world's stage and TV cameras during the Remembrance Parade at The Cenotaph. Where were his sons? In America loving a life of Riley as the Armed Forces carried out the political ambition of a corrupt political politician. The Queen's family was prepared to lead her subjects into Battle. Blair? His cowardly family members ran for cover and hid in the USA. Blair's family clearly do not support the ideals of their smirking father. And that's why they ' legged it ' !
Ben Bow said... "Ironic ' aint it . . Blair sanctimoniously creeps onto the world's stage and TV cameras during the Remembrance Parade at The Cenotaph. Where were his sons?"
Where were Major's and Thatcher's sons?
"The Queen's family was prepared to lead her subjects into Battle."
It's nice and tidy to remember the dead. But what about the wounded?
'War-wounded banned from Cenotaph Serving soldiers who have been injured in Iraq and Afghanistan have been told by the Ministry of Defence that they will be refused permission to join today's Remembrance Day parade along Whitehall in London. The MoD has stipulated that only veterans of the forces, not serving soldiers, may join the centrepiece of the nation's ceremonies. The Royal British Legion, who arrange the parade, are apologetic about the ban but the final decision rests with the government.' (Observer)
I was there in Whitehall yesterday and have been for some years past. It was striking how a frisson ran through the veterans when Blair used to lay his wreath. The language about him was rife and one year another ripple went through when one of the crowd shouted 'watch it lads he'll be sending you next.' I wondered yesterday how they would see Brown. The frisson was less but the rude words still came.
The marchers had had their personal experiences of war and resented the politicians playing toy soldiers with the British armed forces.
The MoD rule regarding serving soldiers was not introduced by the present government. I don't recall seeing Falklands wounded in the parade at the Cenotaph immediately after that conflict.
maybe -but he was the one on whom the resonsibility rests for sending our young people into an armed conflict on evidence which was skewed and without proper parliamentary debate.
His son is safely in America in a cushy job.
If the reason for the war was absolutely above all question it would be different but the motives are not the highminded ones we were presented.
Furthermore the disgusting way in which our troops are treated when wounded is a national disgrace and this government should hang its head in collective shame. Cost cutting by shutting the excellent military hospitals -which other 'civilized country' has done that to the men and women prepared to put their lives at risk at their government's behest!
Enormous sums paid out to people whose 'feelongs have been hurt by some slight -which usually turns out to be a just criticism and peanuts for someone who has been blown up and whose life has been destroyed by injury. What has Blair done about that? Nothing -he's swanned off somewhere else then off to see his old buddy Bush for another cushy number
Where is our sense of fair play where is our national pride where is our gratitude to our armed forces where is the country that I knew and loved
.. and I am not a jingoistic old bat.
old maybe
I have an Asian daughter-in-law whom I dearly love and she is amazed at the way we are
How lucky for him that he can be unpaid when his fellow countrymen have lost their pensions and have to work until they are dead!
As for the Middle East -well he has done a lot of good there hasn't he....
Is he going to destroy it like he has the UK...? No United Kingdom since he came to power Children uneducated since he came to power.... hospitals that Florence Nightingale would feel at home in at the begining of her career.... crime rife - yob rule in all town centres -since he came to power the armed forces living in squalid conditions.... men dying because of lack of equipment..... security jobs given to illegal immigrants - innocent or guilty -who knows
having achieved all of this he now brings his expertise to bear on the Middle east
God help them, haven't they enough problems already.
"....Is he going to destroy it like he has the UK...? No United Kingdom since he came to power Children uneducated since he came to power.... hospitals that Florence Nightingale would feel at home in at the begining of her career.... blah blah"
Yes we all look back wistfully on those idyllic golden sunlit days of the Conservative government.
Don't be so sneery its cheap and ill-educated- you said he was unpaid -but he is not unpaid for everything. Many other people could make a good job of the Middle East if they had other means of money coming in. Euan Blair was in Washington was he not? because of his father was he not? One of my fellow villager's only son was in Iraq - they flew his body back in a coffin - for what? Someone tell me for what?
Of course the troops now have to stay and get something sorted - didn't anyone learn anything from the Vietnam debacle? .. and Iran -I remember an American business man telling me (and he had contacts in Washington - and no I am not a country hick) that America would never ever desert the Shah - a week later the Shah was in exile -Iran is now the result of that.
No I don't think it wrong to accept money for speaking enagements. I do think it wrong to cause an illegal war killing young men and women, ruining a country and then swanning off to make money talking about it- leaving the ruins behind.
The socialists were supposed to be the saviour of the ordinary man -good grief they don't even read their history books -if they did they would learn a thing or two. We are worse off now than we have ever been in the last 50 years (Hospitals didn't kill you then and children could read and write)
Politicians make mistakes -they are human- tho' some don't seem to think they are but the sheer size and number of Blair's mistakes are unforgivable.
I have a wide circle of acquaintences of every political hue from true blue tory to downright communist and all stages between. We argue most vociferously about politics but one thing that unites the lot is absolute contempt for Blair and his policies and anger at the loss of life including David Kelly's - bullied to death for what- telling the truth to the electorate
Absolution might come from the Alimighty but the British public is only human.
26 comments:
"When You go Home,
Tell them of Us And Say,
For their Tomorrow,
We gave our Today."
Kohima Epitaph
and at
Hell Fire Pass
is it just me or did anyone else get annoyed when that pratt Bliar appeared at the cenotaph. how can that disgusting war criminal have the gall to turn up after what he did to our troops.
The Veteran
We came upon him sitting in the sun,
Blinded by war, and left.
And past the fence
There came young soldiers from the Hand and Flower
Asking advice of his experience.
******
And he said this,and that, and told them tales,
And all the nightmares of each empty head
Blew into thin air; then, hearing us beside,
" Poor chaps, how'd they know what it's like " he said.
**********
And we stood there, and watched him as he sat,
Turning his sockets where they went away,
Until it came to one of us to ask
" And you're . . . how old? "
" Nineteen, the third of May. "
*******
Margaret Postgate Cole
My remembering is focussed on those who have yet to die. Our kids are still out there risking their lives for what? A real and achievable goal? With the mediocre kit we've given them?
There are two things that we should be able to do to help them.
1. Legalise Heroin. This might bust the narcotics funding for the enemy in Afghanistan. Sod American opinion on this issue. Americans have already amply proven their collective stupidity.
2. Give our troops the best kit money can buy, and plenty of it. This our biggest moral failure. Their gear is falling apart from old age and we're here at home making no noticeable sacrifice.
3. Institute a percentage draft. The army appears to consist of a warrior class, mostly with expensive accents, and working class "other ranks". None of them are much like us. If some of us, Middle England, had to die out there then wouldn't things be a little different? You bet your life.
Let's do it right or bring them home.
For all those that died in a past needless Great War.
That had wished to remain on this blessed and safe shore.
To all the find and god fearing young men.
From Aberdeen to Falmouth and Swansea then Fen.
Give your thanks for vain bravery so rare, noble and high.
So that others may thrive while making mothers that cry.
Our hearts will remember though are minds may soon wane
For the glory of gods on this their special domain.
Beat healthy and longly the blood of our youth.
Your time is coming for chaos then murder then truth.
So ask the bell tolling is it for you or lost grail.
Or see our glorious past repeating its horrific long tale.
Before this perfect small island shall not falter then sink.
As is written by me this hour so that other may think.
It is a good day to stop and pause. To think about those who came before us and gave their lives, so that we can live.
Somewhere in your family history is a sepia photograph of a relative in military uniform. Someone who perhaps looks comic now but he (and even she) will have known more than you will ever know, unless you are a soldier. He (or she) will have known things that you must pray you will never learn.
As for those who are fighting now, Kipling had a good poem about old ingratitude. Plus ca change.......
“TOMMY
by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.
Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.
We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.
You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!”
The "BBC" remember Wales Dead:
Ministers lead Wales' remembrance
Medals back for Remembrance Sunday
First Minister Rhodri Morgan and Deputy First Minister Ieuan Wyn Jones have led Wales' services of remembrance on Sunday honouring the war dead.
The ministers joined war veterans at the national service of remembrance marking Armistice Day in Cardiff.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7088590.stm
And Scotlands:
Scotland marks Remembrance Sunday
Alex Salmond laid a wreath at a service in Sri Lanka
Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond has taken part in a special service in Sri Lanka to mark Remembrance Sunday.
Mr Salmond attended the Commonwealth Graves Commission cemetery in Colombo. He has remained in the country since the 2014 Commonwealth Games decision.
Services are being held across Scotland to commemorate the moment when fighting stopped in November 1918 at the end of World War I.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7089030.stm
And finally, the "Yoo Kays"
Nation and troops honour war dead
The Queen led the commemoration at the Cenotaph
Thousands of war veterans have marched past the Cenotaph memorial in London to mark Remembrance Sunday.
After the commemoration of Britain's war dead began with a gun blast and two minutes' silence on Whitehall, the Queen laid the first wreath of poppies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7089225.stm
"English" Dead not even worth a mention.
McLabour and EU Subservient "BBC" making even the War Dead "Political".
http://tinyurl.com/39zd2c
I only knew one of them. I wish he was still in the world today, he made it more fun and more amusing. I suspect like most of the servicemen I knew he accepted the risks to fight a true evil.
Ironic ' aint it . . Blair sanctimoniously creeps onto the world's stage and TV cameras during the Remembrance Parade at The Cenotaph. Where were his sons? In America loving a life of Riley as the Armed Forces carried out the political ambition of a corrupt political politician. The Queen's family was prepared to lead her subjects into Battle. Blair? His cowardly family members ran for cover and hid in the USA. Blair's family clearly do not support the ideals of their smirking father. And that's why they ' legged it ' !
...But the men who ruled in England
In stately conclave met
Alas, alas for England
they have no grave as yet.
G.K. Chesterton 1922
My father was "on duty" this morning laying a wreath.
Ben Bow said...
"Ironic ' aint it . . Blair sanctimoniously creeps onto the world's stage and TV cameras during the Remembrance Parade at The Cenotaph. Where were his sons?"
Where were Major's and Thatcher's sons?
"The Queen's family was prepared to lead her subjects into Battle."
From the safety of their barracks in the UK.
Its not their fault that the princes are not allowed to join the troops. They are damned if they go and damned if they don't.
Being young they probably take it to heart.
But their family did not send the youngsters to war Blair did - on a lie!
It's nice and tidy to remember the dead. But what about the wounded?
'War-wounded banned from Cenotaph
Serving soldiers who have been injured in Iraq and Afghanistan have been told by the Ministry of Defence that they will be refused permission to join today's Remembrance Day parade along Whitehall in London. The MoD has stipulated that only veterans of the forces, not serving soldiers, may join the centrepiece of the nation's ceremonies. The Royal British Legion, who arrange the parade, are apologetic about the ban but the final decision rests with the government.' (Observer)
I was there in Whitehall yesterday and have been for some years past. It was striking how a frisson ran through the veterans when Blair used to lay his wreath. The language about him was rife and one year another ripple went through when one of the crowd shouted 'watch it lads he'll be sending you next.' I wondered yesterday how they would see Brown. The frisson was less but the rude words still came.
The marchers had had their personal experiences of war and resented the politicians playing toy soldiers with the British armed forces.
You should read the article from Assembly Conservative candidate Professor Dylan Jones-Evans.
http://dylanje.blogspot.com/2007/11/we-will-remember-them.html
It says it all really
The MoD rule regarding serving soldiers was not introduced by the present government. I don't recall seeing Falklands wounded in the parade at the Cenotaph immediately after that conflict.
ordinary housewife said...
"They are damned if they go and damned if they don't."
The same applies to Blair's presence at the ceremony. He can't win either way.
maybe -but he was the one on whom the resonsibility rests for sending our young people into an armed conflict on evidence which was skewed and without proper parliamentary debate.
His son is safely in America in a cushy job.
If the reason for the war was absolutely above all question it would be different but the motives are not the highminded ones we were presented.
Furthermore the disgusting way in which our troops are treated when wounded is a national disgrace and this government should hang its head in collective shame. Cost cutting by shutting the excellent military hospitals -which other 'civilized country' has done that to the men and women prepared to put their lives at risk at their government's behest!
Enormous sums paid out to people whose 'feelongs have been hurt by some slight -which usually turns out to be a just criticism and peanuts for someone who has been blown up and whose life has been destroyed by injury.
What has Blair done about that? Nothing -he's swanned off somewhere else then off to see his old buddy Bush for another cushy number
Where is our sense of fair play
where is our national pride
where is our gratitude to our armed forces
where is the country that I knew and loved
.. and I am not a jingoistic old bat.
old maybe
I have an Asian daughter-in-law whom I dearly love and she is amazed at the way we are
".... he's swanned off somewhere else then off to see his old buddy Bush for another cushy number."
Blair has now retired from UK politics. His part-time job as a Middle East Envoy is unnpaid.
so he was unpaid in China?
How lucky for him that he can be unpaid when his fellow countrymen have lost their pensions and have to work until they are dead!
As for the Middle East -well he has done a lot of good there hasn't he....
Is he going to destroy it like he has the UK...?
No United Kingdom since he came to power
Children uneducated since he came to power....
hospitals that Florence Nightingale would feel at home in at the begining of her career....
crime rife - yob rule in all town centres -since he came to power
the armed forces living in squalid conditions....
men dying because of lack of equipment.....
security jobs given to illegal immigrants - innocent or guilty -who knows
having achieved all of this he now brings his expertise to bear on the Middle east
God help them, haven't they enough problems already.
ordinary housewife said...
"so he was unpaid in China?"
Has no-one ever explained to you that China is not in the Middle East.
Do you also consider it wrong that John Major, Margaret Thatcher, William Hague, etc. have all accepted large payments for speaking engagements?
ordinary housewife said...
"His son is safely in America in a cushy job."
Euan Blair is working at Canary Wharf.
ordinary housewife said...
"....Is he going to destroy it like he has the UK...?
No United Kingdom since he came to power
Children uneducated since he came to power....
hospitals that Florence Nightingale would feel at home in at the begining of her career.... blah blah"
Yes we all look back wistfully on those idyllic golden sunlit days of the Conservative government.
Don't be so sneery its cheap and ill-educated- you said he was unpaid -but he is not unpaid for everything. Many other people could make a good job of the Middle East if they had other means of money coming in. Euan Blair was in Washington was he not? because of his father was he not?
One of my fellow villager's only son was in Iraq - they flew his body back in a coffin - for what? Someone tell me for what?
Of course the troops now have to stay and get something sorted - didn't anyone learn anything from the Vietnam debacle?
..
and Iran -I remember an American business man telling me (and he had contacts in Washington - and no I am not a country hick) that America would never ever desert the Shah - a week later the Shah was in exile -Iran is now the result of that.
No I don't think it wrong to accept money for speaking enagements. I do think it wrong to cause an illegal war killing young men and women, ruining a country and then swanning off to make money talking about it- leaving the ruins behind.
The socialists were supposed to be the saviour of the ordinary man -good grief they don't even read their history books -if they did they would learn a thing or two.
We are worse off now than we have ever been in the last 50 years
(Hospitals didn't kill you then and children could read and write)
Politicians make mistakes -they are human- tho' some don't seem to think they are but the sheer size and number of Blair's mistakes are unforgivable.
I have a wide circle of acquaintences of every political hue from true blue tory to downright communist and all stages between. We argue most vociferously about politics but one thing that unites the lot is absolute contempt for Blair and his policies and anger at the loss of life including David Kelly's - bullied to death for what- telling the truth to the electorate
Absolution might come from the Alimighty but the British public is only human.
@ Ordinary Housewife,
Late in the day, but - Well Said!
The difficulty for so many of these anonymous idiots is that they cannot see the difference between legality and morality.
Ordinary Housewives certainly can.
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