Let's not forget that the reason we are being attacked in the first place is because of the fact that we criticised the racist comments on one of these sites. And, incidentally, they are furious that my friend in Downing Street emailed me about that too, calling my attention to it, but I am glad that he did. At the end of the day, though, the lesson is that we should leave tittle tattle and gossip to the right wing blogosphere. We on the left should concentrate on ideas, policy and campaigns, which is what LabourList, whatever is thrown at us, will continue to do.
He may regret that. He admits to lying to my face about the emails, having told me they didn't exist when I met him in Dean's Yard after his DAILY POLITICS appearance. He now admits they did. What else has he lied about?
Isn't it time the Labour Party disassociated itself from him and his nasty little blog?
59 comments:
"Isn't it time the Labour Party disassociated itself from him and his nasty little blog?"
How...?
He is the Labour Party. Erratic, poorly put together, mendacious, untidy and, above all, bumblingly incompetent.
Even if they disaccociate themselves publically, it won't do any good. The jig is up. It's been up for quite some time.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!"
Sir Walter does good quote.
and an interesting picture of Gordon in his bunker with friends [soon to be departed perhaps]
This episode will end up in court with Draper and McBride paying damages: mark my words.
Iain: At least he admits to lying to your face, which is more than you have done so far.
Donal: LOL. Remind me not to come to you for legal advice. As if the courts have not got more important things to deal with than silly playground politics.
Do private unpublished emails constitute libel?
From the hints give so far it's hard to imagine what they could be saying. What "X has crabs", "B needs a valium now and again", "C had an abortion"?
Paul: yes they do. The defamatory comments were published to the recipients of the emails.
Great quote from a poster at PB.com
"Re: the original Watergate.
After it was all over, one of the conspirators was asked why they did it.
His answer: “It never occurred to us not to.”
Suspect that’s what happened here, too. Any idea to do down the hated enemy is deemed a good idea: “Let’s go for it!” Any consideration of fairness, decency or morality just gets ignored."
If these people can lie about something like this, then what else are they lying about?
http://www.plenty2say.com. I wouldn't trust the labour Party with a barge pole!
You have every right to feel angry, Mr Dale. Being smeared by someone who's employment is funded by your (and my) taxes must be pretty galling. I hope Donal Blaney is right and this goes all the way. Someone's got to start fighting back.
But it seems there's a sort of battle within a battle here: the MSM don't seem to be exactly enthusiastic about this story. Do they still not take bloggers seriously? Is there snobbery involved? That was the impression I got from the Telegraph report - even the BBC's revised online article is more informative.
Incidentally, Draper's trashed all the comments following his snide 'apology' (you have to check the 'show trash comments' box to see them. Surprise surprise.
He just can't survive this.
"silly playground politics"
As allegedly played by the PMs personal adviser, based in NO 10 and paid by the civil service?
So what exactly are you saying then? That it is trivial for the party in power to use Government resources to defame and blacken the names of opposition politicians and thereby rig elections? That it is trivial to, in effect, steal public resources and facilities and use them for personal and party ends?
And we will see when the emails emerge but from the early reports it seems that some include the most vile and personal attacks. Attacks made from within No 10. From sources right at the heart of this Government, one of whom is allegedly employed to personally advise the PM.
Is 'playgound' the right description?
What about malicious, dishonest, malevolent and unconstitutional?
Mr Denverthen
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
"Journalists" do not like the idea that ordinary people with brains, good powers of observation and a nose for a story can possibly exist outside their own cabal.
How quaint.
wv hoorn - almost there!
"As if the courts have not got more important things to deal with than silly playground politics."
I rather think Donal was referring to a civil action. Not everything is criminal, you know.
``What else did he lie about`
probably everything Iain
I see Derek's little note is now on the BBC ticker front page
Oh dear me :)
ladies and gentlemen lets get a grip !
ian has now made 5 posts about this subject in the space of a few hours.
He's also made numerous appearences on tv about this matter. Isn't this a little OTT
Could i suggest something ian.
take your lovely bf out for a nice relaxing walk enjoy the sunshine.
Have you ever thought the reason why the media isn't taking it seriously is because its not ?
golden_balls is getting a wee bit desperate now, isn't he/she...?
You don't suppose it's the Balls, do you?
Dear Mr Balls and your lovely wife Yvette ought to get out more.
I'm getting the most satisfying internet suntan right here :)
but then again guido has said mcbride has been fired lol
is it just wishful thinking !
"Have you ever thought the reason why the media isn't taking it seriously is because its not?"
April 11, 2009 3:53 PM
Tom Watson MP might have something to say about that very soon.
It's top story on the BBC website, and top story in the Mail.
I bet by this evening, it'll have moved up on the 'Times' and 'Telegraph' too. The Guardian will still be wibbling on about the G20 policing. But then, who reads them anyway...? ;)
So much for the media ignoring it...
Don't you see the essential problem with this story Iain?
Tittle tattle that completely failed to pass sleazebag Derek Draper's publishability test, even on a supposedly deniable Oliver Cromwell outlet ... are in danger of being published and very widely published at that ... because of sleazebag Guido.
Well done Guido!
Clearly McBride and Draper and others in the Labour Party enjoy salacious gossip. Some of it sleazy and cruel no doubt.
Are you suggesting that there are no Tories in public employ (which includes MPs and Cllrs) who similarly enjoy salacious gossip? Possibly by email. Doesn't Guido and to an extent Dale rely on this nonsense?
Haven't seen the emails of course though some of the leaked hints are no doubt of cruel, sleazy, unusable stories but I think you probably need to consider getting off your hypocritical high horse.
Big mistake 1: Using work email address for private gossip.
Big Mistake 2: Derek either using a very insecure email addy or forwarding emails towards Guido. Not to Guido, but towards him.
Seems possible that McBride will have to go. But trading gossip about opponents really is a dog bites man kind of story. Except that without Guido's intervention this would be:
"Dog Doesn't Bite Man!"
As for Dorries' pre-emptive threats? What a muppet she is! Is she going to sue Guido? And would she have seen anything defamatory published anyway?
Donal "Mad Dog" Blaney has got to be wrong. McBride and Draper haven't caused anything to be published.
Looks like Derek's first big scalp will be friendly fire.
UPDATE: The story jumped the shark
And here's Chris Paul to declare it a 'non-storty', right on cue!
I would say the big guns have come out to defend Brown, but he's really more of an air rifle...
*orders more popcorn*
Please can Lord Mandy cuddle up closer to Draper and be give a higher public profile, the two together seem to be doing more for the Conservative party than 100,000 of the die hard supporters canvasing before election day in a constituency with a population of 300.
Paul Halsall said... “Do private unpublished emails constitute libel?”
There has to be publication. However “publication” can be quite a narrow thing.
"Donal "Mad Dog" Blaney has got to be wrong. "
Note the phrasing. Not 'is wrong' 'Has got to be'.
Heh.
Donal Blaney said... “Paul: yes they do. The defamatory comments were published to the recipients of the emails.”
As far as I can recall from my journalism law courses, a communication just between two people with no third party seeing it is not “publication”.
Strange how sleaze and dirty tricks were such serious concerns for the avowedly squeaky clean Labour party when they came to power in 1997. Twelve sleazy years later they think it's all just a laughing matter. Too trivial to mention. I know power corrupts, but I didn't know it erased all signs of memory and conscience.
Mr Draper is in the mould of so many close to Downing Street that accuses everybody else of being negative while being negative about everybody else.
The first time I witnessed Mr Drapers act (for that is what it is) I though a triumph of bullshit bluster and bollocks over reasoned argument.
The epitome of all that’s gone wrong with Nulab, listening to Mr Draper one is rapidly made aware you are considered to be insignificant, worthless and gullible.
He reminds me of the hapless dishevelled drunk in the pub that get up and loudly sings out of tune making up the words he never knew to a mocking audience he is totally unaware of.
I'm lost to why this is a scandal? One group of political anoraks taking the piss out of another ... I'm shocked that such a thing happens. I wait, I'm not.
The point of this story is that it is a mood piece.
There is a feeling among a large section of the public that: Not only is Brown inept, he is also a deeply flawed personality.
This story really goes to the heart of that perception and reinforces it.
This is rather challenging for the BBC, in that they still err on the side of: Gordon was the best chancellor ever and is a very moral man. The facts don't seem to really support that story anymore.
I believe in British values. My father and my mother taught me about family and the great virtues of hard work, doing your duty and always trying to do the right thing. And I have never forgotten my father telling me to "treat everyone equally with respect".
Gordon Brown, September 2007
The Tory party is still the nasty party
Harriet Harman September 2007
Will anyone believe a word they say ever again?
LOL at "Smeargate" how obvious was that?
Joko said:
'One group of political anoraks taking the piss out of another'
Well no, not really. This was started by a senior official in #10 who is paid by the taxpayer.
Cassandra: Thank you for your libel, I am sure the publisher of this blog will appreciate it.
JuliaM: Yawn! Grandma and suck eggs springs to mind.
Cynic: Yes, playground politics about sums up what Donal Blaney, Paul Staines, Iain Dale, and Derek Draper appear to be playing at.
Paul Halsall
Read this...
and then tell me that it took until today for me to jump the shark!?
After 10 years of the Blair glitz, the Brown substance is leaking all over the body politic.
Aren't we lucky !
Alan Douglas
Cassandra: I note that you are a troll.
Conand said...
Well no, not really. This was started by a senior official in #10 who is paid by the taxpayer.
Does anyone really believe that MPs and their helpers don't send each other emails with similar content?
I'm not sure how it is a smear campaign if they were never published anyway - pretty piss poor attempt.
@Donal Blaney
"This episode will end up in court with Draper and McBride paying damages: mark my words."
I fail to see how, since neither Draper or McBride were the publisher of the e-mails, which would give them a ready made defence to a libel claim as you well know.
Simply e-mailing someone does not constitute publication, again, as you well know.
So any civil claim would be difficult, as it would be the person who made everyone aware of the content who is arguably the publisher, and who is arguably responsible for paying damages.
I'd be very surprised if a civil claim arose under these circumstances.
As with the law though, it's all arguments and interpretation, so I respect your opinion even if I do come to a different conclusion.
The Labour apologists on this thread are like knife wielding kids saying 'Everyone does it. It's nothing to make a fuss about'. The fact they can't (or pretend they can't) see the problem is of course the problem.
OK so it's not just 'political anoraks' then. Glad we sorted that out.
No, this isn't playground politics. It is entirely sinister and consistent with Labour's total manipulation of the media since Hutton.
I see no difference between the new demonisation of Guido and the witch hunt of Andrew Gilligan.
What did Hazel Blears call Guido the other day? Quote: 'vicious and nihilistic'. Blimey. Anti spin is becoming a treasonable offence.
Nadine hits back - and its the ST and NOTW that have the emails. Explains Sky's take on all this:
"The Demise of McBridePosted Saturday, 11 April 2009 at 16:26
Really didn’t expect to be charging all over the country today, however, I have been.
I also didn’t expect to be one of the four people that Damian McBride had slandered in the email, but I am.
The email accusations regarding myself are 100% not true. They are slanderous and therefore libellous. Damian McBride is the political and press adviser to Gordon Brown. He is his right hand man and has been since the Treasury days.
He is paid for by the tax payer, Downing St dismissed the emails as a ‘joke’ this morning.
I don’t regard the tax payer’s money as a joke. I also don’t regard the fact that Damian McBride, who takes his instruction from and reports directly to the PM, attempted to destroy my reputation, career and my life as a joke either.
I want an apology from Gordon Brown. I want Damian Mc Bride’s desk cleared. I would also like to know how Gordon Brown would feel if CCHQ wrote such disgusting lies about his wife, Sarah Brown.
How desperate is the PM to hold onto power that the office of Downing St would sink this low.
Have done BBC 6pm News and PM.
Have done all the Sunday papers for tomorrow, except for Sunday Times and The News Of The World. Funny that, they are the two papers which I have been told have the emails. What do you bet my phone starts going at about 5pm? "
I'll willing to bet that Iain and Fawkes would like a lot more non stories like this given the number of comments flooding in.
Nice hole you are digging there, Dolly. Keep it up.
What did Hazel Blears call Guido the other day? Quote: 'vicious and nihilistic'. Blimey. Anti spin is becoming a treasonable offence.
Steady on, our host once called a fellow blogger a nihilist on 18 Doughty Street. Can't be that bad an insult. And Paul's problem is that he does himself no favours. For every cracking article post he makes there are as many that he should be ashamed of. His historic comment policy i.e "Sod the content, think of the stats" hasn't helped either, giving the impression to many that his blog is a seething pit of homophobic, foul-mouthed bile.
It's all so f**king depressing. Given the lack of democratic accountability and the standard of political debate in this country, is it any wonder there's such a disconnect with the electorate.
Well, Iain, the kindergarten are out if force today. You and Guido have obviously hit the bullseye, well and truly! Great News.
Ignore the juvenile comments of the paid bunker boys and girls paid by the public purse to do the dirty work on behalf of whom? GORDON BROWN the saviour of the western World, The man who killed off Boom and Bust, the man who sold gold,who ruined many a pensioner, the man who is totally incapable of running this country.
What an obnoxious individual he is. Surrounding himself with scum like Draper, Whelan and McBride. He knew what he was hiring them for. HE, Brown is as guilty as McBride.
Of course he will make a Not here Not in Number 10 speech, but this is YET ANOTHER OPEN GOAL FOR CAMERON TO COME OUT FIGHTING AND DEMANDING HEADS!
I will not hold my breath. Honestly, when Charles Clarke beats Cameron in demanding heads then that tells us a lot!
Nadine really is a muppet. "Slanderous and therefore libellous"? What is she on about.
Donal: Published to the recipient? Are you an expert on defamation by any chance??
Isn't there one Labour supporter out there who's going to come out and admit they feel ashamed? The party that came to power promising to clean up politics, with a new leader who promised to restore the nation's trust and faith in politics. The man who was supposed to have a moral compass. Yet when Brown presides over dirty tricks on the tax payer, funding someone whose idea of electoral strategy is to spread muck, lies and smears, you claim it's just a trivial matter brushed aside as "juvenile". In fact infantile officials in positions of power is damning enough - but this clearly is much much worse than childishness. Isn't there a single one of you who will do the decent thing and place blame where it's due - on your own leadership?
Chris: if McBride sent defamatory comments to Draper (as he did) and that email was copied to other recipients (including Charlie Whelan) then it is actionable defamation.
The number of "this is a non story" type rebuttals I've seen today suggests that this scandal has rattled New Lowbar's supporters.
They doth protest too much.
Pass the popcorn.
Why do you have an approving comment from Piers Moron as the header on your site? The guy's a total wan***. It soils your brand.
Dirty dirty dirty.
Don't bother trying to engage Chris Paul in any kind of debate. He's cut from the same smearing cloth as the sleazy smearists he loves defending.
It wouldn't matter if Draper and McBride had planned to attack the Tories with anthrax. He'd still say it was just a joke and a 'non-story'.
So McBride's been fired over a 'non-story', then, and Labourhome is calling for Draper's head in a basket. Interesting.
All we get from Paul and the rest of the apologists is "move along, folks. Nothing to see here. Everything's under control. Remember, the Tories are evil".
Idiot.
Jailhouselawyer,
I note that you are a convicted murderer or am I mistaken? Did you not batter a woman to death? perhaps I got that wrong?
Perhaps it wasnt you that hid the body from the police?
Perhaps you could clear it up for us eh?
For you to lecture people who uncover grubby dishonest scheming and demean then instead of the perpetrators is wrong IMHO.
If bringing up uncomfortable facts is trolling chum then I am a proud troll!
He was convicted of manslaughter, not murder.
Good Lord. I go out for the day, and all Hell is let lose!
The "on message to NO. 10" comments are pathetic.
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