Peter Robinson's leadership of the DUP has certainly got off to an inauspicious start. The phrase 'no surrender' is one which can never be applied to them again. Robinson cravely surrendered to a Gordon Brown bribe. We don't know what they asked for and we don't know what they got. But it must have been big.
Gordon Brown may be pleased to have won the vote on 42 days, but he couldn't have done it without the DUP. The duplicitous bastards kept reassuring the Conservatives they wouldn't cave in, but they were not to be trusted in the end.
There are many people who will view this result as a weakening of Brown's personal position rather than a strengthening of it. Whether that is true or not, we are about to find out.
UPDATE: Dan Hannan is none too impressed by the way the DUP have sold their votes.
UPDATE: Our Kingdom has an excellent round-up.
78 comments:
As someone from 'Norn Iron', I'm thoroughly ashamed of how the DUP have tarted themselves to the highest bidder. Shame on them.
I will look out to see how this 'DUP debt is repaid' in future months - and when that happens I hope someone exposes it for the blood money it is.
I hear the price was huge, that all money raised by sale of Ministry of Defence lands will stay in Ulster. There are some big bases, and some strategically sited ones, and the rest of the UK might have liked to see some of their enormous investment in Northern Ireland back again.
Ann Widdecombe didn't help, did she? Her comment this evening was, "The terrorists must be laughing tonight that there they are planning to blow up the populace and there we are agonising about their rights."
Iain, you know her. Why can't you explain that this is not about terrorists' rights? It is about my rights and her rights. I have never thought very highly of Miss Widdecombe, but she really seems to have lost the plot if she doesn't know what our ancient liberties are for.
If we let this logic prevail we might just as well lock up anyone with a swarthy face and big nose for the rest of their natural. And then come back for the rest of the population.
The BBC have been suggesting it was £200m bribe. Very dissappointed with it being passed. Is there a way to find out how my MP voted/how long until it is posted?
Well it woz the DUPes wot won it. I hope they sleep easy in their beds tonight. a majority of PRECISELY 9 puts these duplicitous bastards firmly in the frame. How can the security from terror, or otherwise, of the United Kingdom, come down to a flat £200M bribe to people who know how to leverage terror to their best advantage (no I'm not calling them terrorists, just experts!)? How could the "son of the Manse" PM even countenance it?? Where the fuck is his moral compass? For shame, for shame, for shame. I feel physically sick.
Pretty close: 315 to 306! As you say, the DUP behaved in a way which will only serve to feed cynicism about policitians. The Labour rebels who were bought off at least have the excuse of party loyalty.
I think John McDonnell had it right: "Any attempt to present this as some sort of victory for the government will ring absolutely hollow."
Mind you, there aren't many days when I find myself agreeing with both Simon Heffer and Tony Benn!
Keith Vaz is rumoured to been promised a Knighthood.
The BBC has declared the MSM will be focusing on what has been promised for votes. Brown could of dug himself a grave and face possible corruption charges if honours are being traded.
Especially if the rumours about Keith Vas are true.
DUP MP Dodds insists that there were no bungs involved.
This was treated purely as a matter of national security.
The Evening Standard is saying that Brown has paid for the votes.
Is his argument so weak that he has to buy his opponents. He is willing to pay for votes - what will happen at the General Election?
He has no place in a democracy.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23493760-details/Brown+uses+promises+and+threats+to+win+over+rebels+in+crunch+vote+on+42-day+detention/article.do
"Yorkshire miners were thought to have won a pledge from the Prime Minister that their campaign for compensation for 5,000 ex-miners sick with lung disease would get a favourable hearing."
"The easing of sanctions against Cuba were being asked for as another sweetener, along with the classification of knee problems in old age as an industrial injury."
In fairness, Ulster MPs screw any government on the parliamentary ropes, regardless of party. Ask John Major (whoever he was...)
So, is that more money borrowed (aka postponed tax rises) to pay for this Prime Minister's botched policy-making?
Tony McNumpty interviews on C4 by john Snow said he had no knowledge of a 200M bribe linked to Water.
I'm among those that believe this weakens brown's leadership - he couldn't keep the Labour Party onside enough to get his bill through, and had to rely on his opposition parties to vote with him.
When this gets kicked back by the Lords, he's got to do it all over again, but this time with everybody knowing how close it will be. This will be lost eventually either way.
Any Tory proposals for reduced public spending are immediately met with Labour cries that this will mean fewer nurses / policemen / teachers.
Brown has just deprived the MOD of £200m of funds from the sale of bases in Northern Ireland to buy off the DUP.
How many Army medics / field hospitals etc will be scrapped as a result of this bribe?
The sooner England gets its own parliament an unelected Scot will not have to rely on the Irish DUP members to save his rotten skin.
The DUP did what is in the best financial interests of Northern Ireland and its economy. Voting with the government is the price they had to pay.
The real heroes are the so-called Labour rebels, Conservatives and LibDems who put civil liberties above petty party politics.
Brown and his New Labour cronies should hang their heads in shame.
Dodds is lying.
I have just been informed by my MP that the DUP were promised £50 mill for pet projects, they asked the Conservatives if they had anything on offer and were told 'no'.
Labour insisted that the Chair of a Select Committee, who was widowed just last week, came in to vote, no pairing allowed.
There was outright physical intimidation of rebel Labour MPs by their whips, witnessed by others.
Widdicombe said she'd only vote with the Govt if there was a sunset clause - there isn't one, apparently, but she still voted with them.
What is good to know is that Her Majesty's Government has shown what worth it places on our liberties: £3,000 per day.
So we've had 'cash for honours' Have we now 'cash for dishonours'?
Having spent £2billion to try and buy the votes in Crewe & Nantwich, £200million off the water rates in "Norn Iron" to get this through is just a bit of loose change for Brown.
anymouse 7:14
yeah, and my cock's a kipper!! Geat real numpty!
Well, we now clearly live in a banana republic. Buying votes in order to prop up a dead administration. What next, arresting the opposition? De-registering the electorate?
Let us hope that when the Tories get in, they have the backbone to repeal this legislation without delay.
I live in hope that the Lords will force Brooon to use the Parliament act to get this monstrosity onto the statute books.
Isn't there a case for a complaint to made to the police in relation to buying votes?
I can't wait for Labour to knock on my door come the general election...
And so it was that Mrs Dale and her many fruitcake followers were shown to be wrong, and the will of the people of the UK has prevailed. Such a shame when the workers get uppity isn't it Iain.
On the upside, Gordon Brown looked like crap warmed up today. This has clearly taken it out of him and surely he can't stagger on much longer, no matter how much kickapoo joy juice they bang into him.
Javelin, you wrote, "Is his argument so weak that he has to buy his opponents." It's worse than that, he is having to buy his friends... with our money.
In the end, that he has antagonised a section of his own party and had to go begging like a dog to the DUP will damage Brown.
If he had needed this to get some crucial legislation into place would have been bad enough, but he's spent all this political capital over a 42 day rule which he didn't really need to have.
It has exposed some rifts in the Tory ranks though, and although the DUP are being blamed, I'm waiting to see how many Conservatives backed the government on this. Gordon will have had their votes for free.
Brown has lost his authority. He couldn't win without the votes of another party.
A shameful act by him and by the DUP. Still the Tories should remind them of the Irish saying: "Don't get mad, get even" (though personally I prefer the Italian version: "Revenge is a dish best eaten cold") and make it perfectly clear that when the Tories are in power they will remember this act of treachery by the DUP.
What a pretty disgusting examples of grasping self interest. If the performance of the DUP wasn't the death knell for the Union I have no idea what could be. Stuffed by the Scots over top up fees and kicked in the nether regions in terms of our civil liberties let no Tory or Labourite waffle on about the evils of PR. If the fortunes of 50 million English, 5 million Scots and 3 million Welsh can be decided on a bribe to 9 DUP MPs then we know for sure the political system is rotten to the core.
Today has been a dark day for civil liberties, free speech and democracy. To know that the DUP will be getting a fat cheque for their duplicitous behaviour and people such as Vaz have bene bribed with a peerage makes me feel physically sick. What has become of Parliament that it is so craven in its self seeking and so cavalier in its principles.
What a goddam awful situation we find ourselves in and the sleaze mongers of Westminsters are wholly and completely to blame.
God help us.
The DUP must be made to pay for selling English freedom and heritage for whatever grubby deal they did with the Brown.
The price they ultimately pay must be far greater than the historic betrayal of the country they have partaken in.
Cameron should cut of all contact with them and push ahead with organising in Ulster.
Remember Northern Ireland gets vast sums of cash per head of population over and above everyone else ( before the latest bride is added ) there's plenty to be cut.
Price of your liberty (according to Gordon Brown, who knows the budgetary implications of everything and the value of nothing):
£3,000 per day
£125 per hour
£2.08 per minute
£0.03 per second
Get real. This is politics. This is what happens.
That means deals are done. You sell your soul to the highest bidder.
And every MP in the whole of the chamber would have done exactly what each DUP MP did.
Rejoice. Politics works. Money talks.
You know, Gordon, Uncle Tom Cobbley knows that nobody is going to get locked up for 42 days.
And if they do, as quick as Jackshit, the policy will be reversed.
The policy never meant anything anyway. It was all about that ridiculous self-satisfied smile of Gordon Brown. That he's got this one doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
Disgraceful, just disgraceful. I don't have much faith in politicians, but that the House could sink as low as this has surprised even me. Utterly spineless, utterly disgraceful.
Ulster takes fright, and Ulster ain't right.
The Republicans are right - let us have a united Ireland now, and have a British parliament for British people.
All in all, it sounds like it was an ebay auction where you could reverse bid for your favourite project, policy or whatever and win by walking through the 'correct' lobby. What a message to send to putative terrorists.
Liked your interview on the College Green Iain. You should have that cough seen to mind you. :-)
This vote was ,apart from destoying any vestage of belief in our system of government, really all about one thing.
The saving of Gordo (I stole your pension) Brown , he needed to be seen as in control.
In fact he has come across as someone who would sell his own mother for 1 days headline.
This law WILL not GET through , it will be overturned and he knows it BUT the headline means everything no matter what the cost in money or to our freedoms.
Shame on him and all the other fuck wits who sold there souls and our freedoms.
I despair what this shower of Screw-U labour have done to a country that once stood as a beacon of freedom:-(
Perhaps a change of name to the Conservative and Irish Republican Party might be in order.
I can't help wondering how other western democracies (and in particular the other "common law" countries, such as the USA and Australia) manage with far fewer than 42 days, or 28 for that matter. It's hard to escape the feeling that this is all about attempting to shore up the government's image for decisiveness.
I just wonder where, potentially, it all ends.
Luckily the split in the party and the dishonest tactics used may well have a negative effect on Gordon Brown, despite his win of the vote. I've never picked a side in this one, I've never heard of any more than the current detention time being needed, and yet I can't help but agree with some of the arguments put forward in favour of 42 days. I do, however, feel that NuLab and Gordon Brown are not fit for purpose, and need removal. Hopefully, the measures used and the party split during this vote will take the UK one step closer to a better government.
I agree with the ConservativeHome position that the 42 days legislation was necessary. So, rightly in my view, did the DUP. I'm from Londonderry (not 'Derry', I might add) and always voted DUP when I lived in Northern Ireland, where I recently returned.
The DUP is tough on terrorists - only they had the guts to stand up to Sinn Fein. Some DUP MPs have survived attempts on their lives - how would you like a bomb under your car which could have killed you, your wife and your little kids, if it hadn’t fallen off when you slammed the boot?
The DUP didn’t surrender to Sinn Fein and they did not surrender to Brown: they made the right choice. The BBC reports that: ’DUP MP William McCrea tells Sky News says “hand on heart” that his party voted “on principle” and in the national interest.’ Reverend McCrea (for he is a Free Presbyterian Minister) is unlike many other politicians - he does not lie and he is, as always, being totally honest in what he says.
As for Dan Hannan's comments, to have my country, which I love and would die for, called an “over-subsidised quango province” by a Member of the European Parliament is pretty galling.
I suppose the K will not be for Vaz but for Rev Ian. He would be due one this just helps and no doubt he'll get his peerage if he lives long enough for the Browns resignation honours.
I dont know why people are surprised at the DUP they are a bunch of slime balls. NO, No No to the Belfast Agreement the give in to something that Trimble never did - have Sinn Fein as your deputy.
They are utterly appalling. Always are and always will be.
Does the poor sap Brown actually believe he can stage yet another re-launch on the back of this cynical stunt?
Did someone mention 20 pieces of silver?
Well done DUP you have stood up to those who are weak on terror. Anne Widdecombe is utterly right. How the fuck can right wing tories talk about national security now. They have sold their badge of honour to their party. Churchill would turn in his grave. I am grateful the DUP stood up for the people of Britain I dissagree with much of their right wiong agenda but not on this. They backed Britain. We face islamic NAZIs who want to kill us all and you talk how terrible it is to lock up for 14 days extra. Grow up.
I am sorry but for Dan Hannan to have called a nation a over-subsidised quango province is a disgrace and shows a petty vindcitive nature from the tories. Please Mr Hannan apologise for that remark it is not becoming of you. How would you feel if someone used a vote as an excuse to insult your country.
This nothing new, a few years ago Ruth Kelly bribed Plaid Cymru with cash for a welsh medium school in England. They were going to abstain on an English only education bill as they felt it was none of their business. They voted after all and secured the bill for Kelly
Jonathan M Scott
Shall you be resigning from the Tories then Jonathan?
If you believe the DUP did not deal you are very naive
I can understand the tories are sore. So it is probably understandable they would give bit a of irrational abuse to Ulster. But I think tory officials should behave with more dignity. A random blogger like me has an excuse to racially abuse an entire nation in anger at a vote.
I admitt Ireland votes No I will get angry at proably shout abuse at the country.
but it is not OK for paid officials, especially when that nation is part of our one. Ulster ia proud part of the UK. The DUP are a legitimate political party. It is just one vote. I say that as labour member. It would be ajoke if the DUP rejected this.
Alistair, Ed , jack.. I did it. I have finally finally won something!!
"What's that Gordon,What have you done?"
"I've kept my job until Monday!
And it only cost a few billion. Darling, why didn't you tell me I could buy friends before? How much will it cost to keep me in power until 2015. Only that much, really!
Get the I.O.U s and the cheque book.
We are going on a popularity spree. Anyone wants an airport in their constituency"
iain - whilst on i'm the side of the anti-42 day camp, bear in mind that Gordon Brown f**ked Northern Ireland over at an investment conference in NI about a month or so ago - rather than promising more inward investment, as the southern Irish had commited, he merely promised that the Norn Iron lot could keep a bit more of proceeds of sales of Norn Iron government land.
maybe the DUP strategy was the fuck Gordon Brown back - to be seen as winning a vote based on the DUP wont go down too well with the left of the Labour Party and will seriously damage his leadership.
in my view, its a political checkmate. and the DUP played it extremely well.. they got their 20 pieces of silver, but at the same time, fucked Gordon Brown back.
So, all the usual suspects on the major blogs are venting spleen like olympic spleen venters at a spleenathon.
I am angry too, but in a quiet way; I am going to suggest nothing less than a revolution. I am suggesting a campaign of civil disobedience and disorder, something that will cause a crisis about who is going to run this country and about our freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Democracy has been killed off with corruption and lies. Tonight is just one of a series of death throes.
We need to up the ante a bit and start fighting back..you and me.
Dirty Euro,
Very few of us gives a stuff whether they lock these fundamentalist lunatics up and throw away the key.
The issue we should all be worried about is that today our MPs gave any possible future government (even military or fundamentalist or your mates in the EU who would ban dissenting parties at a whim if they could) the power to imprison ANYBODY whose views differed from theirs.
Which bit of this does your post graduate mega brain have trouble in understanding?
Free England unite Ireland NOW,
those Bastards will pay for this in the long run.
Foxtrot Oscar Chuckle brother three over
Well done to the DUP. I dissagree with their right wing agenda. But i support them on this. We must stand for the national security of our natuion. And put petty national politics aside.
Well done Anne Widdecombe the only tory with any real support for national security. The majority of the people of our country supported this act now tories get behind it Only the toriers wanted to play politcs with terrorism and they lost.
How would you feel if someone used a vote as an excuse to insult your country.
That's all very well Dirty Foreign Socialist, but Hannan hasn't insulted your country, he's insulted Britain. You are from Denmark...or somewhere.
Much as I would have loved to see Bean defeated on this issue, it is simply the start of the process and,as time passes, he is going to look more and more ridiculous.
The economy has started the meltdown stage - see the price of ALL UK housebuilders over the last few days, HBOS share price below the rights issue price, Alliance & Leicester shares dropping nearly 10% in one session. And finally, even the 'bent' unempoyment figures can no longer hide the systematic loss of jobs that is going to explode over the coming months.
Believe me, this is going to get very, very rough. Let the architect of the whole mess lead Her Majesty's Government into the economic abyss.
Those who laugh last, laugh loudest - remember it!!
Having had personal experience of Peter Robinson when my mother tried to enlist his help in getting me into Grosvenor Grammar School after passed my 11+ and his complete lack of action, I can say this is par for the course from this duplicitous bastard and his fucking party. They don't speak for the Protestant population, they speak for themselves and I honestly hope they all burn in hell for their betrayal today.
The DUP should be ashamed of themselves! This is a party that opposed internment (which this Bill imposes in all but name). The National Security excuse is so bogus to be laughable. The threat from the IRA was indeed real and altogether more threatening than anything posed today, and we survived that without this grotesque affront to our civil liberties. I am appalled, not just with the vote and the DUP but also with having to agree with Tony Benn - today Parliament really did repeal the Magna Carta. Let us just hope that the "unrepresentative" "unelected" branch of our legislature does the right thing and throws this Bill out! Ironically a branch that Lord Anthony Wedgewood-Benn rejected.
chas said... "we might just as well lock up anyone with a swarthy face and big nose for the rest of their natural."
Thank god for that, a bit of peace and quiet from my missus!
So that's £200 million to subsidise Northern Irish household water bills, a quick billion to ex-miners, a change in sanctions on Cuba, a safer seat for a Labour MP (so the BBC is reporting) and a possible knighthood for the ever-greasy Mr. Vaz - no doubt all honourable causes, but what the hell have they got to do with fighting Al Qaeda?
For that sort of money they could have bribed bin Laden, given him a seat in the Lords and STILL have a shred of dignity.
I am throughly demoralised by this vote. I abhor those who seek to use Terror to undermine liberty and strongly advocate taking the fight to them.
However it seems that our response to the terrorist threat is to demolish, damage and inhibit the very instituions of traditional liberty that we seek to defend. If Habeus Corpus, the cornerstone of our judicial system, goes what next?
I fear that this right (42 days detention without trial) could be abused by a future govt. to coerce the population.
Shame on the DUP.
They used to be against this sort of thing in Northern Ireland. But then, they used to be against a lot of things in Northern Ireland.
And they have form: they saved Major over the Scott Report.
UKIP's only MP voted for 42 days. Nuff said.
And I am very pleased for anyone who will benefit from the extra help for ex-miners promised in return for certain Labour MPs' votes. But if the money was there, then that help should have been forthcoming anyway. Why wasn't it? What was being funded instead, and why?
Why are people saying the DUP were ‘bought’ on the issue of 42 day detention of terror suspects?
This is Ian Paisley’s Ulster Democratic Unionist Party, folks. This is the party that regularly called for internment without trial and the death penalty for terrorists.
They would have voted for the government anyway, they simply played good parliamentary politics by getting a big pay off from Brown for doing what they would in all conscience have done anyway.
So. £100 each for the population of Ulster. Together with the bribe at the time of the recent by-election, that makes each of the £240 a year better off.
On a purely financial level ( I am sick of my own ranting on all the moral dimensions) it just shows Brown's mentality. Spend the public's money even though you know it won't make one iota of difference in the end.
Having read the comments, and noted the arguments of the 42 day supporters, all I can say is "Remember Wolfgang".
Never, ever, ever trust a politician who says the way the law will be implemented.
The 42 days applies to YOU and YOU and YOU. If your face doesn't fit for ANY reason, you can now be banged up for 6 weeks. In that time they will find something to use against you.
Not sure I understand everyone getting on their high-horses. People being promised things to get them onside - that's politics isn't it? I'm against 42 days, but given that Brown was generally assumed to not have a chance of winning the vote even a few weeks ago his efforts have fairly borne fruit - even if I'm one of the ones less than happy about that.
Would the DUP be craven if they had voted with the Tories? After all if they had then Labour would have lost by nine votes. You don't think Cameron et al were offering incentives to them too?
You could just as well say the nine votes that swung it were from the ten or so Labour rebels persuaded to recant. I understand the resentment at the result, but don't see anything particularly dastardly about the means.
The DUP are duplicious bastards. They have proved that time and time again.
The Conservatives should now announce that they believe that the Island of Ireland should be united!
There is no need within the family of the EU for the Northern Ireland Assembly.
Stuff the DUP and all their underhand works. Show the bastards that we can fight dirty!
Give N.Ireland to Ireland.
I am amused by people being shocked by the DUP's behaviour. Being "duplicitous bastards" is in their blood. They care for no one outside their own little bit of Ulster. In fact they are not British they are Ulstermen and nothing more.
Seems the whole charade cost Gordon a pretty penny.
The DUP should be ashamed of themselves! This is a party that opposed internment (which this Bill imposes in all but name).
They only started to oppose it when HMG started using it against the prods as well as the republicans.
I think that the DUP have just hinted to 50M Englishmen that a United Ireland is a good idea. Be careful what you wish for eh chaps?
what did Gordo demand from you? pray tell.........
john miller said... - Having read the comments, and noted the arguments of the 42 day supporters, all I can say is "Remember Wolfgang".
Walter Wolfgang was ejected from the Labour conference for repeatedly heckling Jack Straw and his conference pass was withdrawn. He was a visitor not a delegate.
The next day he was stopped by the police when he tried to get back into the conference without a valid pass. He wasn't searched or arrested. He was detained very briefly (a matter of minutes) while the police checked him out.
When handling security at these events (including the Conservative Party conferences) the police routinely use their powers under section 44 of the Terrorism Act to stop and check people who might be unauthorised to attend.
This all happened at Brighton where I seem to remember there was some kind of incident involving Margaret Thatcher at a previous conference.
Just one thought.
What do the Unionist population of Northern Ireland owe the Conservative Party exactly? This is the party that prorugued Stormont, that imposed the Anglo-Irish Agreement over our heads and brought in the Downing Street Declaration.
The self-serving cynicism of the Conservatives defies belief. The party of law and order lining up to denounce 10 MPs (DUP + Hermon), everyone of whom has lived under threats against their life from terrorists because they vote for strong law and order measures is frankly unbelievable.
Just one thought.
What do the Unionist population of Northern Ireland owe the Conservative Party exactly? This is the party that prorugued Stormont, that imposed the Anglo-Irish Agreement over our heads and brought in the Downing Street Declaration.
The self-serving cynicism of the Conservatives defies belief. The party of law and order lining up to denounce 10 MPs (DUP + Hermon), everyone of whom has lived under threats against their life from terrorists because they vote for strong law and order measures is frankly unbelievable.
***though personally I prefer the Italian version: "Revenge is a dish best eaten cold"***
C Powell, the accurate quote is actually "revenge is a dish best served with a raspberry coulis and a fennel vinaigrette.
***The DUP are a legitimate political party. It is just one vote. I say that as labour member. It would be ajoke if the DUP rejected this.***
Dirty Euro, if Paisley and the DUP are happy to place the economic needs of NI above abstract civil rights and principles, why don't we offer them a couple of million to stop wearing silly orange sashes and bowlers and to stop marching with drums through Catholic areas?
Wonder if they might suddenly decide that their principles aren't for sale at any price.
"Never! Never! Never! Oh... what's it' worth?"
Watch out Wat Tyler! John Miller is right - if this goes through the police will be able to bang up anyone whose face they don't like for 6 weeks. Safeguards? Ha ha
Tory hypocrisy at work -
On Northern Ireland Conservative policy for years has been to support mandatory coalition with terrorists but now choose to jump up and down when the DUP vote for holding terrorist suspects for 42 days. Hmmm
The DUP were always going to vote for 42 days. Given the experience of being on the receiving end of terrorism for 35 years does anyone think they would seriously have considered voting anyother way? If Brown was too stupid to realise this and unnecessarily provided extra funding for the NI Executive then shame on him and not on the DUP.
BTW this is UK wide legislation which will have consequences for us all be we in Ulster or England. The DUP were fully entitled to vote as they did. Perhaps cirtics should compare last nights DUP vote with Scottish MPs voting on purely English measures before deciding on the next rant.
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