Liam Fox was on GMTV this morning talking about UKIP...I think people who are wanting to vote UKIP, and many
Conservatives would sympathise with their general view in terms of European policy, they have to recognise that the person who would be happiest is people went out and voted UKIP would be the leader of the Labour Party. There’s only one party that’s going to take Britain in the direction that those who vote UKIP would like to see, that is standing up more for Britain’s interests, making sure that the decision that effect the British people are made here in the UK. That’s the Conservative Party. That’s the simple choice that people who have voted UKIP will have to face if they continue to vote UKIP rather than Conservative they will increase the chance of getting an integrationist Labour government. That’s their choice...All parties have to be very aware of the availability of other choices to voters. We need to make the case that they also have to understand the consequences of their actions.
It has to be said that this is, to put it mildly, a rather softer line on UKIP than that taken by David Cameron. Exclusive graphic courtesy of The Spine
30 comments:
This is a very rich statement from Liam Fox who made his attacks on the Conservative Members of Falmouth and Camborne Association through CCO two years ago regarding their alledged Daliance with UKIP. These allegations have been proved unfounded in defence of Ashley Crossley but have since resulted in the extermination of Conservatism in Cornwall.
He should be very careful with his verbal daliance with UKIP.
Unfortunately, the Conservatives have in practice overseen more European integration than any other party.
Even though I am a (despairing) member of the Conservative party, I can't really say that the Conservative leadership fills me with any confidence that they will reverse the destruction done to British democracy over the past 34 years.
just like Labour the Conservative party is in its death throes , good riddance to the pair of you.
Never mind snaring to capture UKIP voters today,Fox led the field in culling the members of Falmouth and Camborne Association when they were wrongly accused of liasing with the local UKIP branch.
If he has changed his stance on this issue maybe he would like to apologise personally and individually to all those once loyal conservatives he kicked out of the local Party. He holds the smoking gun.
...or if the Conservatives keep losing elections because their erstwhile supporters vote for policies which they regard as essentially in the national interest, the Conservatives might just alter their strategy too.
Enoch Powell regarded this as a resigning issue, and he was usually right in retrospect.
There's a difference between wooing potential UKIP voters with a stronger anti-integration message and demanding a change in Conservative policy.
I think for once Fox hit the nail on the head.
Not only is it that, Iain, it's pretty much the standard Labour/Tory line on alternative parties:
"If you vote for them, your vote will:
1)Be wasted, because 'everyone knows' that elections are a two-horse race
2)Help the other big party to stay in power/get in through the back door."
What we need is everyone voting for alternative parties to the extent that neither party's mandate is sufficient to actually command a majority.
The best possible result we can have is a hung parliament. THEN we might finally see the electoral reform that this country clearly and badly needs.
Davey Boy witters on about renegociating the Common Fisheries Policy, never mentioning that *all* the other countries in the EU would have to agree to any proposed changes - and it just ain't gonna happen.
If he (and the Tory Party) want the drift towards UKIP to stop, then they'd do better by being honest about just how little can be achieved from 'engaging' with the EU.
Tell him that after 30 years of supine surrender inevitably followed by government claims of 'what a good deal we got', it'd be nice to be told the truth for once, preferably followed by a promise of a referendum on staying or going.
Never happen, of course. And so the haemorrhage of support will continue.
Foxy's comments on UKIP and most things come to that excel over and above Cameron's comments. Cameron's knotted himself into an alliance with Hague and the europhiles, while Fox is free to speak the truth plain and simple as he sees it.
refreshing is a word that comes to mind.
Oh good grief, Iain.
ConservativeHume has become crushingly dull as the UKIP obsessives invaded - one rather hoped this site wouldn't go the same way.
We can look forward to dozens of posts along the line of
"...and what's more, my persisting dandruff is clearly a result of This Great Nation's Infernal Entanglement with Vile Europe, and David Cameron remains supine in the face of the demolition of our ancient long-cherished freedom from skin complaints. No wonder decent people of my age (I served in the Boer War with some distinction) despair..."
What were you thinking?
The best possible result we can have is a hung parliament.
We won't get a hung parliament by voting UKIP.
We will only get a hung parliament by mass tactical voting, which means a much enlarged Lib Dem party, who are openly euro-federalist!
At least he's being honest and realistic about the situation. The key ambition for UKIP is to snare votes from the Conservatives, which, in the long run, only serves to divide the eurosceptic vote and prevent progress in that field in the future. Despite what the Tories have (unfortunately)done in the past to serve European integrationism, it is now, primarily, a eurosceptic party in terms of tone and membership.
When it comes to the EU, I follow Thatcher's line that she sets out in her book 'Statecraft'. That is, that a future Conservative government should try to renegotiate many of Britain's treaties with the EU. Only when these negotiations fail should we withdraw.
A shrewd move, Foxy is the only member of the shadow cabinet that will appeal to disillusioned Tories who vote UKIP. His main point is also correct, no matter how much you sympathise with UKIP, voting for them will in many cases result in the election of a pro-European.
Has he finally found his vocation?
If Fox and Cameron want to stop Eurosceptics defecting to UKIP then it's going to take more than vague threats of more Labour years in Govt and Cameron's platitudinous and vapid article in the Sunday Telegraph today to do that.
It still comes down to
"We & Labour are running a corrupt electoral system between us so that nobody who doesn't support us gets in, so bugger you".
Doesn't exactly inspire faith in our "democracy".
Fox is just another jock south of the border who thinks its safe to play the union card.
foxtrott oscar.
Home rule for England, or it will only take one Aiery Neeve like figure to get the ball rolling.
This attempt by ConHom over the last few days to raise Liam Fox's profile, seems to coincide with him getting his "wings clipped" by the rest of the cabinet!
I saw his softened line on potential UKIP voters as a call to them to come back into the conservative fold, well they are the type that might support a hard line neocon struggling to get enough backing to maintain his cabinet ambitions.
I am bored with half the Labour cabinet running around trying to further their deputy leadership ambitions instead of concentrating on their day job. It does not look any less calculating from a shadow cabinet minister!
Liam, take a look at David Davis and the way he has not only become a vital and loyal member of the present cabinet, but also his excellent record as shadow Home Secretary.
You have got Defence and with the useless Des Browne letting our soldiers down daily, why aren't you raising their profile and fighting hard with both Labour and Osborne for a manifesto pledge on our armed forces?
Oh Dear - UKIP pose no real electoral threat - thay failed to register in the latest MORI poll.
UKIP is in the process of being hijacked by ex-tories to use as a vehicle to batter the Conservative party with.
UKIP are a shambles, riven by feuds and plagued by mass defections.
Come visit our BLOG for more...
It was Fox who threatened 2004 European Candidates with deselection if they did not sign a declaration of support for the EPP deal. He then comitted himself to abandoning that manifesto commitment when he ran for leader.
Fox is a two-faced twister who, like Dave, cannot be trusted. He has been caught briefing against Dave and is trying to make amends by being seen to undermine UKIP. In reality, he is trying to win over ant-Cameron supporters for a leadership bid if Dave screws up in the polls.
Those of us who know Fox from Scotland know that he is loyal to only person - himself. You have been warned!
london salmon-
And if you vote for Davey Boy will you get a euro-sceptic policy?
Nope, despite the views of the majority of the party members.
Those at the top of the party remember the late 80s and into the 90s when Europe was the great divider and they don't want to go through that again. So Davey will make Euro-threatening noises, soothing the sceptics and trimming as necessary, but do absolutely nothing, thereby keeping the 'philes on-side.
It's finally sinking in that despite the disparagement formerly life-long tories are re-assessing their position and considering casting their votes elsewhere and could well determine who loses the next election. I say loses, because if the polls are any sort of a guide, there is no marked enthusiasm for either NuLab or NuCon, it'll be a case of winning by default whoever gets in.
Why the main opposition party can only register in the mid-30s in the polls over the past year while the government disintegrates before our eyes should be warning enough. Apparently not. Meanwhile the line on the graph marked "Other" (Greens, UKIP, BNP, Respect) starts to climb higher - collectively they might even threaten LibDims for third place if things go on as they are.
The politicians are playing the 'business as usual' game, but this time around the electorate may have had enough. In the last election the "winner" got about 22% of the total theoretical vote - somewhere around 30% of the actual vote - and next time the figures will probably be even more dire. And yet these clowns claim that it was a ringing endorsement of their policies past and future. Like hell it is.
Lies, spin, party sleaze (yes, Cons too - they took loans against the spirit of the legislation, the only reason they didn't hand out peerages by the bucket-load was because they weren't in a position to), MPs' financial self-interest, rank incompetence and a party system that reduces individual MPs to docile lobby-fodder - why on earth should anyone with a modicum of integrity give support to any of them?
The Conservatives are running scared because they fail to offer a clear vision on the EU. And that is why they suffer with the electorate on this topic: Not because of a strong pro or anti position, but because they are divided over it. Hence, the name calling, and petty arguments against us. No amount of treaty renegotiation will be entertained and for those watching Sky yesterday, a taste of things to come: It was the EU that first confirmed the bird flu outbreak at the turkey farm, not Defra. And today, we had a British EU MEP remonstrating about the Defra `tardiness' over the issue. Be prepared for more like this, even from our own citizens from within the EU system.
Vote UKIP, get Labour? In 2005, there were only 39 seats where our vote count exceeded the winning margin. Only four of these were with UKIP candidates who kept their deposits. No one talks about the third place candidate who typically scored multiples of five and more votes than us. And we denied ALL three parties ultimate victories in these 39 seats out of the 496 we contested. So we "ruin" things for all parties on this record, don't we? Talk about lies, damned lies, statistics...
The conservatives are not as far ahead in the poles as they ought to be given the prblems of Labour.
There is no apparent shift to the Conservatives. Worse, they continue to alienate their core vote.
I have never fallen for Blair's blandishments, and Cameron has no appeal for me. Just another chancer. I hate the EU and will vote for anyone who will get us out of it. If it's not the Tories, then UKIP will do nicely.
"The Conservatives are running scared because they fail to offer a clear vision on the EU. And that is why they suffer with the electorate on this topic"
When ever I read this kind of comment from a UKIPPER, I am struck by their completely blinkered view of the present political climate.
Its like watching someone on the titanic reading the brochure with complete conviction as the ship goes down!
"What were you thinking?"
I don't know - but I do know that we're not thinking what you're thinking........Tallyho!
Chatterbox,
If the Conservatives are not scared of UKIP then why is my party subjected to playground insults and taunting on a daily basis? Unable to read the political climate? We offer real policies while the Conservatives offer mere directions to an unknown destination. You tell me who is being politically relevant especially as we seem to be attracting more Conservatives to us than UKIPpers who leave to join Mr. Cameron.
And Mr. Cameron's criticism of Germany's efforts to revive the Constitution will be of no more significance than farting in a thunderstorm. Tell me how THAT so-called intervention by him demonstrates political awareness. Blinkered indeed...
What Fox was called on to do as Party chairman and his own view are two different things-check out Dave's former boss for the answer to that equation.
The Fox line is correct.The Dave line will,if unchecked,produce the biggest ever UKIP vote.
Dave's a nice lad- but no "bottom"!
We will only get a hung parliament by mass tactical voting, which means a much enlarged Lib Dem party, who are openly euro-federalist!
The Lib Dems' EU federalist position - along with their leftward lurch and betrayal of community politics in my constituency - was of the main reasons I stopped supporting them, after a life time as a Liberal and, more recently,joined the - apparently - more right of centre Conservatives.
So I watch with dismay as the Conservatives lurch to the left and turn to jelly in the face of the EU. As for the Conservatives new found community politics, I'm still waiting for these.
There *must* be a referendum on the EU, if Cameron won't allow one he reinforces the fear that he really is Blair's heir.
This issue is not going to go away or be shrugged off, the majority of the people of these islands want and are entitled to our say on this. If we don't get that, then any pretence the Conseratives make of being a democratic party will be a sham.
Perhaps the Tory party could give a more poitive reason not to vote UKIP by being less wet and left wing.
Johnny sums it up beautifully. The Conservatives, as things stand, are unelectable.
bt said
"if the polls are any sort of a guide, there is no marked enthusiasm for either NuLab or NuCon, it'll be a case of winning by default whoever gets in."
It always has been but increasingly the electorate are getting fed up with a 2 party oligoploy.
A weel argued postbt.
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