Justice Secretary Jack Straw has told the BBC he is "sceptical" about claims by some police that they are overworked and spend hours filling in forms. He said some officers "quite enjoy" being in the station "in the warm" and some forces did better than others. Often the difference was due, not to resources, but to the "discipline and culture" within the force, he said.But Simon Reed, vice-chairman of the Police Federation of England and Wales, said the remarks were "irresponsible and inflammatory".
"It wasn't police officers who brought in 3,000 new laws, it wasn't police officers who brought in a 30-page prosecution file and it wasn't police officers who brought in multiple forms and authorities to use a pair of binoculars," he said. "This was all done by politicians. Police officers are not the architects of bureaucracy, they and the public are the victims of it."
Chris Grayling has been quick to react...
What we have now is a group of Ministers who are utterly out of touch with what is really happening in policing. They heap more and more bureaucracy onto our police, leaving them filling in form after form, often with the same information on it, and then pretend that nothing is wrong. It's not police officers who are sitting at their desks in the warm - it's Ministers stuck in their ivory towers. They should get out a bit more and find out what is really going on.
I don't know what proportion of police officers vote Labour. But if any of them heard Jack Straw's interview (click HERE and scrol to 8.40) I suspect the number will have halved.
30 comments:
Another new labour 'let them eat cake' response from a deadbeat Minster who is totally out of touch.
This is even worse that the self delusion of Grodon's New Year Message
"It wasn't me
It was broke when I got here
The Americans dun it...Honest"
I now just get the impression that they know what is about to happen to Labour and minsters are worn out and don't give a damn any more.
New Year Honours List
"Scotland Yard Assistant Commissioner Cressida Dicks is to receive the Queen's Police Medal for distinguished service. "
Stinking lying effing socialist bastards
There comes a time when Governments which have been in power too long, manage to piss off just about every sector of society.
This Government managed to achieve that about 3 years ago but now they are so out of touch they are just compounding the problem with every word they utter.
Thing with the odious and useless Strawman is that he's transferring his own values (being tucked up somewhere nice and warm and safe), onto people who really want to make a difference, who joined the force to DO something, and who find themselves totally hamstrung by the rools of fools.
What's the moral difference between binoculars (technology for coppers, hurrah!) and CCTV (police state, boo!)
Both, surely, are something that enables a law enforcer to see without being seen, something they would not without the aid of technology be able to see.
Speaking from a cops perspective, the ill informed comments from Jack Straw are of no surprise.
I doubt very much that Mr Straw was working nights on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day or Boxing Day, dealing with the misery that 24 hour drinking has forced on society.
Fortunately I get New Years Eve off this year.
I hate NULIEBOUR for the damage that they have inflicted on policing.
Twenty years ago, I could have an arrest and be in and out of the station in less than an hour with all of the paperwork completed. Now it takes several hours even for the most minor matter.
It is not the police service that has scammed millions out of the tax payer on false expenses claims, second home allowances etc. Blunkett, Smith, MacNulty, Blears do as I say and not as I do.
We are thanked for reducing crime or should I say fiddling the crime figures when it suits?
Bunch of hypocritical scum bags.
I will be voting Conservative.
I'd be surprised if there were any Labour-voting police officers left after Jackie Smith ignored 'binding' arbitration on pay.
Cressida Dicks, Labour luvvie Patrick Stewart and the two self confessed cokeheads from Status Quo.
Enough to make you weep.
"What's the moral difference between binoculars (technology for coppers, hurrah!) and CCTV (police state, boo!)"
Perhaps if there was a plod standing behind every lamp-post or on every corner watching every move you made then they might start to get as intrusive as CCTV. At least they would have a real life plod using them who could take action to prevent a crime.
CCTV is primarily used for collecting evidence to use in the prosecution of the person who murdered you or several injured you. Most of us would prefer that that crime never happened in teh first place because a police officer scared off the attacker.
In the early days of wide use of CCTV it was used in the trial after someone was very nearly killed in Edinburgh(?) as he came out of a club. A group of people beat and kicked him. The police considered a "success" to have evidence rather than a failure because the attack took place without police intervention.
One newspaper article described how now the police "investigation" into most crimes consists of sitting for many hours watching all the available CCTV footage.
Halved! I think you could get them all into a police box (non-TARDIS) now...!
"...dealing with the misery that 24 hour drinking has forced on society."
Sorry, but just because chavs can't handle it doesn't mean the vast majority of people who CAN behave should have their freedoms curtailed.
Harsher penalties for those who misbehave is the answer.
How VERY DARE YOU IAIN. The Police work their arses off ...
(1) Filling in forms for New Labour's targets
(2) Going on Politcial Correctness training courses.
(3) Arresting white elderly ladies to fill their quota of ethinically balanced terrorists
(4) Hiding knife crime so they don't appear to be too many black kids in black gangs.
(5) And if they get time they get to got out and duck abuse from Chavs on the Estates.
I suspect the number will have halved.
Half of nothing is still nothing.
After almost 13 years of a Labour Government who doesn't understand the word "independent" whether it be assigned to the Civil Service;the Judiciary;the BBC or the Police Service the next Conservative government has big task de-politicising the higher echelons of the Police Forces within the UK(especially the Met)and ensuring that they are a truly non-political body and that they concentrate on combatting crime and not indulge in political-correctness or other politically inspired actions
Labour love the police
Police love labour,
they scratch beach others back, Labour want to control every aspect of society, the police also want to know every thing, the police want more power,(want everyone in the country to be on a DNA database)Labour want that too, they love each other, maybe the ordinary constable will be on "the peoples side" the upper ranks are all Labour toadies, who do not likegoing out on patrol, in a way straw is right.
Once talking to some Tory MP's one said to me, "oh the police want that" soon saw him right by saying the police also want ,,,, are you going to give them that?
so you too want a police state?
It is time the police started doing a proper job and not new labour left wing enforcement troopers.
I have always thought Straw, despite or perhaps because of his alledged high intelligence, an utter twat.
Labour came in in 1997 with a Manifesto to reform crime statistics. They had claimed that the Conservatives were hiding crime and they would change the recording rules to give a more accurate picture. Jack was shit hot on this.
The Police service warned him that his new rules would lead to a rise in crime of over 10%. In the event it was a 16% rise in the first year and going up to a 34% over the next 2 years as police forces adjusted to fully applying the new rules.
Throughout this period the Britsih Crime Survey was showing that almost all categories of crime were falling. This had been the trend since 1995 and was expected to continue driven by changes in the demographics of young males in the population.
This rise in recorded crime was therefore a simple redefintion issue. But by now Chopper Clarke was taking over. He wasnt keen to be seen as the Home Secretary who was presiding over a massive hike in crime and bad headlines. So we had 3 responses
1 a knee jerk reaction and moral panic in the Home Office on the lines of 'the police are failing' we must have reform.
2 frantic attempts to change definitions around the edge to lower the figures leading to pages and pages of detailed new instructions on when is a burglary not a burglary
3 an entire new regime to drive up performance by giving officers performance related pay for learning how to play the game and fill in the forms so as to maximise detections. Soon in some of the 'better performing' forces whole teams of officers could be devoted to this. It was often called 'detection mining'.
Now this did lead to a few absurdities. Let's suppose that two children got involved in a minor scuffle in school. In the past this tussle would have been dealt with by teachers. Not any more. Under the Nu Labour child protection guidelines the school had to tell police. In an 'efficient' force blows had been exchanged so officers would record 2 crimes (one for each 'victim'). The 'suspects' (who might be say 10 years old) would be hauled down to the nick with their parents. Fingerpints and DNA might be taken. They would dutifully get a caution or formal words of advice. The PC would fill in 2 sets of crime reports, two sets of forms for detections, CRO forms, fingerprint forms, DNA forms, a crime file and various notifications to Social Services, Uncle Tom Cobley and all. But at the end of it he/ she would have 2 detections - and that's what really mattered. That's one reason why by 2004 recorded crime had risen to 5.4 million.
At last the penny dropped and later Home Secretaries cleverly realised that they could promote a drop in crime by changing the rules. So for example we had a Fraud Report and a change in the rules on payment card and cheque fraud. Try to report that now? Sorry sir, Police don't do that any more. Tell your bank and they will report it but only if they have a big problems, it doesn't cost them too much money to report it and they think they know who did it ie almost never. Result - hundreds of thoudands of crimes struck off the books every year and crime down below 5 million / year again.
Doesnt it all make you feel safer in your beds knowing that we have men like Jack taking a strong leadership role in protecting us
Jack Straw is and always has been a self deluded pillock and is still at heart an anti Police student activist. Dont forget peeps it was this useless asshole that inflicted the Human Rights Act on us....
Respectfully, the "our police are wonderful" meme (I caricature it, but only slightly) is a very unfortunate relic of old Toryism. The UK is now a fascist police state, and that is enabled by a fascist police force. They make up non-legal rules (eg about using cameras) arbitrarily to suit themselves. They retire from operational roles early on fat pensions and then come back in civilian roles. They make hamfisted and obviously political interventions (eg Damian Green). Occasionally, which is too often, they murder citizens (de Menezes, Tomlinson). No-one with any concern for liberty (and where are you on that, Tories?) should trust them an inch.
JuliaM
Unfotunately the Chavs out number the decent hard working people of this once great nation.
In my experience most decent people do not fight, throw beer bottles, assault total strangers, sexually molest the vulnerable for no reason and then decide to fight anyone in a uniform, whether they be medical staff or police officers.
No one is suggesting the responsible or law abiding should be penalised.
Please take a reality check on how bad it is out there, despite the lies spun.
iain
Do you really think David Cameron is offering the Police anything better?
You're off your rocker.
The boy Dave wants to put the Police on regular civvy worker contracts. I look forward to the work to rule culture and strikes he'll get to manage. Moron.
But my absolute favourite? Let's have an elected Police Chief "like the USA".
How frickin marvelous will that be? Maybe we just need another police/politician. Yay! Let's vote in Prosecutors next and hey, why not elect our judges too?!
That's what I call justice.
Good Lord.
@ kris
So, for you, policing is the same as the judicial process? Or perhaps you think that it's been suggested that judges and prosecutors are elected.
Where?
No, I don't know anyone who confuses the police (who are part of the Executive) and the Judiciary (err, who for the Judicial branch)
The point - and I know it's subtle, so pay attention, is the exercise of law and police discretion should not be done on a popularity basis.
No one has yet suggested that the judiciary should be elected.
Wait for it.
Now you tell me - why should Chief Constables be elected?
Because we could do with our very own Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County here?
All you people wringing your hands about the erosion of your civil liberties LOL - you haven't seen a thing.
Sorry, but police policy is not a Conservative strog point.
As far as I am concerned, the police are just the paramilitary wing of Labour now - whether individual officer’s vote for other parties is an irrelevance.
As Damian Green said this morning, the retention of DNA information has alienated large sections of the middle classes, those who would in the past typically help the police.
You can include me in this group now - I wouldn't p**s on a policeman if he was on fire.
I don't often agree with Jack Straw, but there is a kernel of truth in what he says. Many police officers do prefer to spend time in the warm in front of a computer in the police "office" (as they actually call them these days) rather than walking the beat or catching criminals.
@ Kris
"the exercise of law and police discretion should not be done on a popularity basis"
Well, Amen to that. However that is precisely what is going on right now. Not only do we have politically determined police 'targets' but we have astounding amounts of knee-jerk legislation. The real pity is that there are disproportionate influences of local (or single)interest groups on what becomes national legislation, and arising from Ministers' own constituency concerns.
Frankly I'd rather Chief Constables were elected than being members and servants of that sinister, maelevolent, cabal, ACPO.
Yes, the Police have too much paperwork, mostly thanks to Margaret Thatcher. But they are also overmanned, and overly fond of the warm, whether the warm of such stations as there still are, or the warm of the car.
Someone once observed that the Americans got better performance from their police because they realised, as the British did not, the trick was to make their cars more comfortable than their canteens.
This, to me, is the first impressive thing I've heard a Labour minister say in thirteen years. Once upon a time, ministers actually took charge of their departments and *ran* them, instead of spending all their time consulting and twisting in the wind. When the police went to Willie Whitelaw in the 80s to ask for extended detention powers to deal with the IRA, he laughed them out of his office. New Labour, on the other hand, just bent right over.
@MOG_X34
“the police are just the paramilitary wing of Labour”
Based on my experience, I can confirm that this is true. They are eager to cooperate with political detentions by abducting people from their homes and locking them up in mental wards. The police can make obvious lies and the IPCC will try to ignore the complaint or, when forced to investigate, find in favour of the police regardless.
For years the police have supported Labour and in return they have been allowed act as if they were above the law and to get away with murder. However, the police are about to learn the meaning of “sup with the devil” as Labour look to be about to stitch them up.
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wv: dicalic ! Steady on!
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