Earlier this week I removed a link to Liberal Conspiracy from my sidebar. I did so because the site has become just plain nasty. Today's gloating over the hospitalisation of Rush Limbaugh is typical of the thought process that seems to be going on in the mind of Sunny Hundal. Most days you can read bile rejoicing about the day Margaret Thatcher dies. Tim Montgomerie writes...
Responding to the recent very brutal attack on the Silvio Berlusconi their blogger Unity posted a YouTube clip of the attack. The full text of the post was: "Obviously one should never condone the use of violence against anyone, least of all man in his seventies... But – be honest – given a clear shot, you would… wouldn’t you?"
'Sunny H' himself commented:
I think this demonstrates a key difference between elements of the left and the rest of us. I can think of no left wing hate figure whose hospitalisation or death I would celebrate, either openly or secretly. Hundal portrays himself as a moderate left of centre 'thinker' but from time to time the 'sunny' facade peels away and the nasty truth is revealed. Today is one of those days. But he's been at it over the last week trying to insinuate that Devil's Kitchen is a racist. It's what he does to many people who dare to disagree with his Weltanschauung.
Liberal Conspiracy used to be quite an interesting discussion forum, even for those of us who disagreed with it. Nowadays, it is just a venue for people to hiss and spit. The left of centre blogosphere is beginning to flower (I shall be writing more about this later today), but LibCon gives it a bad name and is doing it damage. Perhaps I should be pleased about that, but actually I find it rather sad.
77 comments:
I agree Iain - we don't need any more hate or violence in the world than we currently have.
It's not just the left though is it Iain? Your successor as Norfolk North PPC caused a fair bit of controversy a few years ago for saying Tony Blair's suicide would "cheer him up". Sadly, nastiness isn't the soledomain of lefties, righties or centries.
"Thinker"? Don't make me laugh. They can't take any questioning of their view. Dare to do it, and your homophobic even if you're gay, or their favourite default- the prosaic -"racist".
The self-appointed "intelligensia" have been revealed as know-nothing thugs.
Mind you, some of us have been stating the blindingly obvious for some time...
Iain, you're way behind me this time. I removed all links to this individual a few months ago for similar reasons to your own.
Initially I thought he was being controversial with some posts, then I realised he was writing his actual beliefs.
Not my cup of tea or even glass of sherry.
You're a sensitive soul aren't you Iain. A light hearted quip at the expense of one of the most vile bigots on the face of this earth and you sprint to the moral high ground.
I see you still have Guido's site linked on your page. Have you ever read any of the comments on his blog? They make Sunny's 'joke' look as inoffensive as a Ronny Corbett monologue. And please don't come back with the 'well that's commenters not Guido himself' defence. If I posted a stream of racist, homophobic bile on here (or maybe just a link to Rush's radio show) you'd soon take it down and ban me because the site owner decides what is and isn't allowed and therefore what the general tone of the blog is.
Happy New Year to you...
Does Hundal recognise the irony of his use of the world 'liberal'?
I am struggling to think of anyone less liberal. Oh, yes, I have one. No, two! He'd get short shrift from both of them.
The right in America are as bad. Some really nasty comments about John Kerry's wife's cancer last week.
And today we have a cheap little generic swipe at The Spectator, simply because some quarter-wit has posted a response to Rod Liddle's (characteristically bad) piece about the Nigerian Knicker-bomber and used the word 'jigaboo'.
Sunny Hundal is the sort of person who gives tokenism a bad name.
Limbaugh is a nasty evil git.
I'm not glad he is ill, but is a corrupting influence on US political discourse.
What puzzles me about this, and the skateboard-Thatcher incident, was that there was no such blog outcry when Matthew Norman wrote in The Independent
If somebody were to hand the noted primate hunter AA Gill a high-velocity rifle, and say to him "Adrian, you see that slightly simian figure over there, yes, the Prime Minister...", would anyone be horrified when the shot rang out and the creature slumped to the ground?
Well, I suppose it would be a blow to Sarah, and presumably the Metropolitan Police would have to show an interest. But for tens of millions of people the overwhelming emotion would be relief
As for 'differentiating the right from the left', have a look again at Guido's regular commenters and think again about that.
Repeat after me ..."The Left are a bunch of bastards."
Berlusconi may be a pillock (though the choices of opposition may not be much better), but once we start throwing bricks at our leaders then we enter the politics of the mad house.
Ahhh but Iain, Sunny is of an ethnic background so cannot be nasty. To suggest otherwise may constitute a hate crime.
I can think of no left wing hate figure etc..
I can, several of a Caledonian persuasion!
None the less, in general I agree with your viewpoint.
Scratch a SocDem and you will find a Socialist. Scratch further and, heck, why bother scratching further?, you have already found a nasty Authoritarian.
The Left hates Thatcher and will rejoice at her death just as Dracula would rejoice at the breaking of a mirror or the death of Van Helsing.
And yes, I do mean the Left are bloodsucking parasites reckless over the survival of their hosts and that Thatcher, the mirror, the Van Helsing revealed it to themselves and they hate it, as any in manic denial would.
What??? Didn't you publish some really nasty things about Jack Jones?
Thats how it works. If you are a conservative, they hate you with everything.
Fox news really has it right. It only seems to work one way.
They admit, they are sometimes nasty, but not about something like that.
What people like him fail to understand is that there is a big difference between "not mourning someone's death" and actually wishing it might happen. I can think of quite a few people whose passing would leave me totally unmoved, but I certainly wouldn't cheer. There is no one that I can think of that I would actually wish to see dead, except possibly for the maniac in Tehran.
Hundal stands tall and conspicuous as a devout worshipper of the evil of socialism and dogma. He is a bigot and a hypocrite, as is the left's bitter and twisted motivation for the destruction of all opposition.
Anonymous 12.29. For your convenience, here is the link to what I wrote.
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/04/other-side-of-jack-jones.html
I think even you would find it hard to equate that to what Hundal has written about Limbaugh or Thatcher.
But no doubt you will try.
"Liberal Conspiracy" is simply a fascist website. The theft of the term "liberal" by people like the "liberal democrats" who support totalitarianism & racial genocide is an affront to a civilised society. To ofen people get away with any sort of obscenitiy as long as they mutter the right words.
"I can think of no left wing hate figure whose hospitalisation or death I would celebrate, either openly or secretly"
and from your post on Jack Jones:
"Jack Jones...was part of a group of union leaders in the 1970s who exercised their power in truly disgusting manner" & "No, Jack Jones was not a hero" all posted on the day after he died.
A celebration no... but not without some degree of venom... I think.
No venom at all, merely a viewpoint. As you well know. Exactly the sort of thing you find in a routine obituary.
if the sidebar has a spare slot then you wont go wrong with my blog.
Iain - I am not comparing you to Sunny Hundal - but I don't read many obits with the word 'disgusting' in...
Fair point, but the word referred to the way unions exercised power generally. It was not used in particular reference to Jones.
Observing that Leftists can be nasty is a bit like claiming that water can be wet.
It is the nastiness of Gordon Brown which makes Leftists see him as one of their own.
hmmm...
Have a good new year, Iain!
Read the laughable Donal Blaney blog Iain, and tell us that venom and hatred are confined to the left.
You can't. And if you do, you're a liar, and a bad one at that.
Anonymous at 12.29 & 1.17
Remember that Jack Jones was quietly taking money from the Soviet Union to undermine our democratic structures. He was an unpleasant hypocrite, who managed to die as a cuddly and beloved campaigner for pensioners' rights. It's slightly different to state an informed contrarian view of a dead man's legacy, as opposed to celebrating or even encouraging their death.
It's only a shame that the truth about Jack Jones' venal scurrility didn't emerage a bit earlier, so that he'd have to explain and justify his actions. That woulf have been a wriggle to behold.
Anonymous at 12.29 & 1.17
Remember that Jack Jones was quietly taking money from the Soviet Union to undermine our democratic structures. He was an unpleasant hypocrite, who managed to die as a cuddly and beloved campaigner for pensioners' rights. It's slightly different to state an informed contrarian view of a dead man's legacy, as opposed to celebrating or even encouraging their death.
It's only a shame that the truth about Jack Jones' venal scurrility didn't emerage a bit earlier, so that he'd have to explain and justify his actions. That woulf have been a wriggle to behold.
Well thank heaven right wingers never write anything nasty.
When comment moderation was on (i.e. the comments had to be approved by you) you published these comments -
"Gordon Brown is too far beneath contempt to be allowed to survive. He should be humanely put down."
"No he should not. He should be slowly eviscerated with a putty knife!"
This was OK, apparently because the exclamation mark meant that is was a joke.
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2008/09/lady-t-to-lunch-at-chequers-reaction.html
Petty and nasty.
No, Iain, it is not just people on the left who can be nasty. What a cretinous statement. Read Guido, Blaney and many many others for evidence of right-wing vileness. It's a (sad) human trait rather than one restricted to those of a particular political persuasion.
Oh, and another thing. Having read many of their posts (and the comments they allow through), I really don't think it's stretching the meaning of the word to say that Devil's Kitchen, Guido, Donal Blaney etc are 'racist'. You clearly aren't, Iain, because you don't post the types of things that they do and you don't tolerate racism in the comments. I'm perfectly relaxed about allowing bloggers to do what they want, however repellent to me, but it's a bit rich if they then bleat about people describing what they see. As far as DK is concerned, Sunny is simply telling it like it is.
@anon 12.29
Jack Jones was on the payroll of the Kremlin.
I suppose we're not allowed to be nasty to traitors, provided they are left-wingers?
As someone said... you'll be removing the link to Guido Fawkes' site, then?
We have nastiness on all sides of teh political spectrum. I think this decision is a little silly and hypocritical until you remove Guido's banner as well. Some of the comments on that sight are much much worse than the post your highlighted. I remember some of the vile stuff posted when it was reported that a man had got near Tony Blair's house with a gun and teh general stuff about having Gordon Brown put down or tortured. Not to mentoin the homophobia shown towards Mandelson on an almost daily basis. Maybe you want to look into that Iain?
did you really just do a post, the basic content of which, and i'm paraphrasing here, was "ooh isn't another blogger nasty"? i think you did. how about some, you know...what's the word...content. yes that's it.
You seem to have conveniently forgotten that joke about the Chinese cockle pickers made by a charming Tory MP that, if I recall correctly, was widely reported.
so you think Sunny H is "just plain disgusting" and removed his link to your site.
but Guido ? his comments are full of disgsuting racist or homophobic rants and your fine with that ?
He ridicules the PM for being a one eyed son of a manse and your fine with that ?
Your letting your own personal feelings get in the way iain.
Its your blog you decide
But its personal with Sunny H you dislike the man its plain to see.
I see other people have made comparisons between Guido and Sunny H do you want to share your views on this ?
Guido, so far as I know has never wished a political opponent dead or be hospitalised.
I judge Sunny by what he writes, not what his commenters write. And I judge Guido in the same way.
So ridiculing a blind man is acceptable iain.
i agree Sunny H is wrong but you've singled him out.
Just my two-penneth
If we are talking about "sheer nastiness" then surely Guido's rants against the prime minister's diability and homophobic attacks on Mandelson.
So he isn't wishing the death of a political opponent but it's still pretty nasty.
Surely you can't support the sort of rhetoric that Guido uses?
I hereby nominate Bloggers4UKIP for the vacant space.
Iain,
Your response on the Guido question is pathetic and will convince no-one. Do you even believe that yourself? Just admit your response to Hundal is partisan. That's the truth. And by denying it you make yourself look frankly ridiculous.
It's not really difficult to understand the leftist "logic". They see themselves as morally superior and as self-evidently correct; it stands to reason that anyone who does not share their vision is being willfully immoral and is acting either out of pure selfishness or from perversity.
When you believe that you are absolutely and unquestioningly right and that your opponents' opinions are motivated by nothing but malevolence, it's not hard to start dehumanising them.
We're not talking about left-wing "nastiness" here. In fact, attempting to frame it as "nastiness" makes it sound a lot lighter than it actually is. We're really talking about the eliminationism that's innate to all left-wing though - the idea that anyone who does not share your left-wing views is wicked and deserves to be eliminated (and, indeed, must be eliminated as part of the process to perfecting the human race).
Anonymous, at 5:19, has it right on the bullseye.
"Jack Jones...was part of a group of union leaders in the 1970s who exercised their power in truly disgusting manner" & "No, Jack Jones was not a hero" all posted on the day after he died.
A celebration no... but not without some degree of venom... I think.
So in socialist idiot circles, merely telling proven facts proves you are nasty?
If the socialist scumbag Jack Jones had been found out as the soviet spy he was prior to 1965 he would have hung, and rightly so, as a traitor.
I on't suppose there are many you can say that about is there?
Come on Iain, just admit that this is just an excuse because you don't like Sunny. A quick glance at Guido's blog will show he is just as capable of nastiness.
For example, in this post (http://order-order.com/2009/12/30/cherie-in-swindon/) he effectively brands Cherie Blair a hooker.
In this post (http://order-order.com/2009/12/16/labour-spying-on-co-conspirators/) he brands all his commentators "window lickers".
Perhaps you've forgotten the truly odious podcast that Guido and the Monkey produced at the time of the Mark Oaten scandal?
And the Rich & Mark cartoons are anything but humorous or satirical, being instead badly drawl offensive human excrement.
How about the repeated mocking of Gordon Brown's eyesight? An example (http://order-order.com/2009/11/13/friday-caption-contest-big-letters-edition/) for you. The continual references to the "one-eyed son of the manse".
I could go on, but to be brutally honest there's a limit to how much of Paul Staine's blog I can stomach.
So ridiculing a blind man is acceptable iain.
When I pay his wages and he profits from being dishonest in my employ...then yes, and especially when that blind man in his position purely because he is blind. (nobody would take any crap from Blunkett if he was fully sighted)
Look at how the PR company goes into overdrive to make capital out of Browns bad eyesight...when it suits him of course.
All you morons bleating about all sides this and that miss the point that there is a real difference between making light and actually revelling in someones misfortune, and the left, as usual, means what they say.
homophobic
Now we know what a pathetic lefty is writing when anything not pro-homosexual is portrayed as it must be homophobic.
The left trying to close debates down by labelling people with what they consider negative labels. They don't even know the meaning of phobic.
Lot of comments about Guido... almost as if they're trying to get a soundbite of you defending him, Iain!
It seems like a perfectly rational choice to me, and far from being the Manichean issue that the left seem to like to paint things as.
Guido is often cruel and vindictive (and also funny and insightful), and his commentors are much much worse, but he is also well-connected and has broken several major stories this year - which is why people on both sides read him.
Partisan hatemongering, on the other paw? Who needs it? It's all about the signal-to-noise ratio...
Oh, and golden_balls: Brown is a one-eyed son of the manse. It's not a nice thing to mock his eyesight, but there is nothing factually incorrect in the statement.
It's holier than thou posts like this that make me want to vomit. Whatever, Iain.
Don't let me stop you.
Iain, I remember you writing pretty venemous stuff the day after some union guy (can't remeber his name, and can't be bothered looking it up) died this year.
Chris, you don't actually. I had this discussion further up this thread. Here's the link
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/04/other-side-of-jack-jones.html
You reckon that is venemous? Hardly.
You can always spot the leftie bloggers.
They're the ones with no sense of humour or irony and who cannot tell the difference between someone being genuinely nasty and someone who is just poking fun for the hell of it.
What boring, grey little people you are.
"I think this demonstrates a key difference between elements of the left and the rest of us. I can think of no left wing hate figure whose hospitalisation or death I would celebrate, either openly or secretly."
err... actually I seem to remember Iain twittering a jokey comment from his partner about how the demonstrators at some protest wanted shooting. I'm pretty sure that it was the protest at which Ian Tomlinson died, so you got the result too!
Tom, your recolleection is entirely wrong.
@ Lord Snooty i agree 100%
@Houdini
I said So ridiculing a blind man is acceptable iain.
you said
When I pay his wages and he profits from being dishonest in my employ...then yes
and some other tosh.
No @Houdini ridiculing a blind man is never acceptable. criticise him for his views or his policies. fine fair enough
Don't use his disability to get cheap laughs.
@clive i agree it does look to be personal with Sunny H which is a shame.
@The king of wrong
"Oh, and golden_balls: Brown is a one-eyed son of the manse. It's not a nice thing to mock his eyesight, but there is nothing factually incorrect in the statement"
see above
so according to you as long as its factually correct its ok
just think about that sentence and the possibile insults we could throw at each other.
Sunny H was wrong to say what he said. But Guido has been far worse.
but afterall its iains blog he'll do what he wants .
Anonymous (7:46) said:
You can always spot the leftie bloggers.
They're the ones with no sense of humour or irony [...]
Damn right!
I was amazed to see someone cite Guido's Cherie-in-Swindon post as nastiness - my thought on seeing that picture was "hehehe, oops, the sub-editor must have been asleep".
Sure, it's a bit immature to laugh at mistakes and accidental juxtapositions that look like double-entendres... but it's also very British. Is there anyone who doesn't crack a smile when they hear "the bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey..."?
I used to think Ann Coulter was a ridiculous demagogue but, after hearing her speak, I came to the conclusion that she's a very funny troll. The Left get wound up so easily...
@golden_balls:
so according to you as long as its factually correct its ok
just think about that sentence and the possibile insults we could throw at each other.
Pretty much, yes. If you think you can upset me with facts, you're welcome to try. I think it's called "self-awareness" or something...
I don't like tearing people down, focusing on negatives, or dredging up the past, and so I try to avoid such things. Personal attacks just give the impression that you actually care what the other person thinks.
Name-calling and anti-politician bile is Guido's schtick, and it's what his readers expect. If you don't like it, you could always read different blogs...?
"Tom, your recolleection is entirely wrong."
Entirely wrong? Do you mean you've never twittered a comment like that, or that I've got the details wrong?
I haven't made it up so either I got the comment wrong or I've mixed you up with some other Rightie blogger. I thought the comment was along the lines of "my other half said the protestors want shooting. really liberal!"
Any way of checking your past twitter comments? I think it would have been on the day of the G20 protest this year.
Profuse apologies if I have mixed you up with someone else.
@The King of Wrong
I couldn't disagree with you more strongly.
So if someone was suffering from a terminal disease that would be fair game as its correct ? or is it just the terminally ill that should be excused from cheap laughs ?
Fair play to you if thats how you feel politics shoud be i disagree.
Your actions views and background fair game your personal ailments is definately a no no.
I do sometimes read Guido but when iain decided that Sunny H had crossed the line i just remembered Gudio and thought hmmmm
Happy new year
@golden_balls:
You're getting bent out of shape at a hypothetical public figure with a hypothetical terminal illness being the subject of a hypothetical insult from a hypothetical blogger? I take it back, the Left isn't easy to wind up at all.
I've already stated that I dislike ad hominem attacks, and try to avoid them myself.
Others differ on that point. But, fundamentally, I don't think there's anything that's sacrosanct and cannot be made fun of - just that with some subjects it's really easy to be offensive and really hard to be funny.
Which is why we don't tend to joke about killing/injuring people, or laugh when they're hospitalised.
If people talk about poking out Brown's remaining eye, that's out of order... but I've never seen Guido mention the PM's sight other than as a descriptor, and the fact is that he does only have one working eye...
Happy New Year!
The difference is that lefties are supposed to be the nice ones. The fact that Guido and his acolytes spew pure poison and host BNP propaganda on their comments sections does not surprise us. We only reached for the smelling salts when McBride made the ill-considered decision to try and copy them. There's no point saying that the Berlusconi remark is no worse than what appears on right wing blogs ten times a day, the fact is these clothes don't suit us, and we should regard Iain's very obvious double standard as a compliment.
Iain, I trust you still reserve the option to publish IP addresses of your commentators? I'm nowhere near able to accuse them of sock-puppetry, but it's a suspicion I cannot entirely put to bed.
@king of wrong
You just don't get it do you
I don't think making fun of someones disability is acceptable in politics but you do.
You seem to be excusing Guido while being critical of Sunny H IMO you can't do both.
I dred to think what type of election this is going to be if your view is prevalent which on this blog seems to be the case.
@golden_balls:
You missed a spot with that Corner Painting, and your Straw Man could do with a bit more stuffing.
It appears it's you who "doesn't get it", golden_balls.
I've now stated three times that I don't like personal attacks. How much clearer do you want?
I am, oddly enough, neither Guido nor Sunny, nor am I their press agents, or connected to either of them in any way. What they choose to do is their own business.
And what I choose to do is mine, and mine alone, so don't try to tell me who I can and cannot like. Goodbye.
I wonder what Americans would make of the fact that Sunny Hundal and renta-layabout others, were over there in the US spreading there far left poison on behalf of the one in pursuit of their global socialist agenda
Is this something the Republican back-lash might be interested in?
I am of course banned from Liberal Conspiracy by the little Stalin , he amuses me no end
All this petty arguing over who said what is so depressing and unnecessary. Why cant you just enjoy Iain's articles than trying to pick fights to get the upper hand.
And Tom as for this comment about shooting protestors, clearly that is a tongue-in-cheek remark and meant in jest - whoever said it. To raise the death of a protestor who wasnt even shot to make a point is in very bad taste and personally I think you owe Iain an apology.
Andrew
That's a really weak excuse. So if Sunny or whoever else simply put a ;-) after their comments it would be ok then would it? How do you know that they weren't made jokingly in any case?
And I rather suspect one's tolerance for jokey comments of this kind depends on who they are about. I can imagine the (understandable) distaste of some if a jokey remark was made about shooting Thatcher, or the Queen.
The only point I have is that it people of all stripes make comments that others find unacceptable. And those that try and argue that it's only the 'other side' that does it are talking rubbish.
Tom, first of all I have to correct you. Ian Tomlinson was NOT a protester at the G20 march. He was a newspaper seller coming out of a pub drunk and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. You have also made an accusation against Iain you can not fully substantiate because in your own words you may have mixed Iain or his partner's comments with somebody else's.
Not going too good is it?
When you get the facts straight first then you can start pointing out double standards.
Yes Im sure people from all sides of the political spectrum are guilty of wishing some politician they loathe to die, the question is whether Iain or his partner have said anything of this nature.
And yet, surprisingly enough, Guido Fawkes is still on your blogroll...I wonder why?
ho ho ho, look what I just found -
Just give the Police guns, and shoot the lot of them. That was my partners reaction to the riots in the City. Quite liberal of him really...
1:12 PM Apr 1st, 2009 from Twadget
so my recollection was entirely... err... right
@Tom Powdrill: You might want to check the date on that posting...
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