One point which illustrated the Prime Minister's heaviness was when Cameron asked him at the beginning to agree that all expenses should be published on MPs' websites in real time, as soon as they submit them. Brown gave a plodding answer which ended with him saying that they would be published on the Fees Office website. Well, yippedydoo.
Cameron finished with a flourish: "How can we convince people in the country we are serious about change if we cannot change ourselves. It is time for us to see ourselves as the rest of the country sees us."
Cameron achieved his objective by pointing out that he was providing leadership on this issue whereas Brown was merely passing everything off to committees. And that's why he won this very low key exchange.
Nick Clegg didn't really spark either. His question concerned second homes and the taxpayer taking ownership of them. Brown easily palmed it away.
Michael Martin put on another poor show, commencing PMQs two minutes late. As Sandra Gidley twittered: "Come on Mr Speaker, it's 23 minutes past and we are only on Question 2". He also had to be prompted by a withering look from Cameron to call for order when Labour backbenchers got rowdy.
Brown 5
Cameron 6
Clegg 4
Cameron 6
Clegg 4
36 comments:
Amazingly quite restrained PMQ today as expected -although quite disappointed to be honest as I was hoping for a bit of bloodletting- although hoping to hear more information later on the state of the Vote of No Confidence against the speaker as brought by Douglas Carswell.
Wasn't able to watch, but listened on 5Live. Can someone tell me why DC was heckled, and who the dinosaurs were that were doing it?
Utterly disgraceful behaviour. As if the public needed any more reasons to loathe politicians and their behaviour!
Good point by Clegg about the Gurkha soldier killed in Afghanistan; keeping up the pressure.
A real yawn, what a let down.
Agree with your scoring.
The atmosphere in the chamber was very, very odd today - I've never heard it so quiet. I thought Cameron did rather better than you suggest - he's definitely retained the upper hand on the expenses.
Totally unsurprised that the Speaker failed to call anyone who might have asked a contentious, Speaker-related question, and found myself sighing audibly when he (predictably) called Denis Skinner. Let's hope next week is a bit sparkier.
Cameron won it by a mile -
Gordon Brown made a Gaffe on calling proposed reforms yesterday "Extreme" in his first two responses. You rewatch the clip he is aware he made a slip up but nobody seems to have noticed as yet.
Nick Clegg was useless again - obviously the political cirlcles critising his extreme comments with regard to EU elections and some political paries.
Cameron is absolutly in line with public opinion in cutting numbers of MP's and Numbers of Peers plus the communication allowance.
People in (political) Westminister Bubble don't like the attack on MP numbers/ Peer numbers because it may deminish their chance of becoming a representative or staying one. What Cameron is advocating shows leadership as he is proposing cuts against vested interests.
What was interesting was that Brown refused to sign up to all of Chris Kelly's recommendations on expenses.
Well, what's the point of an Independent review? Brown wants to pick and choose what he likes? Makes the review farcical.
Brown loves to defer decisions. Throw things to reviews. To Committees. But always it involves delay. Brown lacks leadership. How hard is it to publish expenses, from now, online. I could set up a web site for them today.
Brown did not get this whole issue is a moral/ethical issue. He keeps referring back to the rules. Of course MP's will be found to be in the rules---they are outside the realms of 'what is right' 'what is ethical'.
Brown was again dour. Boring. Lifeless.
And agree with you Iain. The Speaker really is one....if not the...worst speaker we have seen in the House.
perhaps you should start giving a rating for the speaker as well. or are negative numbers not allowed?
"Fire in their bellies" = party political point scoring.
No thanks.
I look forward to Gordon Brown claiming that he had the ideas of abolishing the communications allowance and reducing the number of MPs BEFORE David Cameron but he just never got around to mentioning it.
Can Cameron follow up his intentions with an EDM?
We are grossly over represented in Westminster in both the Lords and the Commons, and they routinely ignore their duties to protect Parliament and this nation. If MPs want better pay, halve their number and let them earn it.
Iain,
It was subdued and there were no knock out punches, although I would rate Cameron higher than you did today.
Cameron managed to look like a leader and Gordon Brown looked lumpen and lead footed (as well as like a member of the living dead).
After a couple of good weeks, Clegg was dreadful today.
For once, I think you are being unduly kind to Brown.
He was awful today and showed that he just doesn't get it.
The issue in most of the expenses stories is clearly not whether the claims broke the rules but whether they were right. Thank God that at least Cameron has the balls to take on his own backbenchers and say that these are what the new rules are for anyone wanting to continue as a Conservative MP. Why can't Brown, as leader of the Labour Party, do the same thing for his own party?
He then refused to give any kind of answer to the question on the Communications Allowance, which most people see as a way of subsidising incumbent MPs' pre-election campaigns.
Finally, he couldn't even agree to Tony Wright's request that the Kelly review's recommendations will be implemented in full, regardless of what they say.
Brown has shown weak (and that's putting it kindly) leadership over this whole issue and today just made it worse.
I hope an "outside body" doesn't mean yet another quango.
Yes, a subdued PMQ.
And I also noticed the Cameron look -- and also one from the LibDem leader.
Both implying, "Get your act together, Martin, will ye!!"?
I score the Speaker no points at all. This is PMQs and not a forum for Dennis Skinner to finish with a rant that contained no question at all. He should have been cut off after 30 seconds.
Enough of Skinner already. Like many on the Tory seats he should have gone long ago and made way for an MP who is capable and willing to work.
I would say Brown was much worse meaning Cameron won by miles. Yes Cameron may not have been fired up but Brown was just going through the motions. He wasn't there. He looked finished, as though he has given up.
Iain,
I think you are being much too kind to Gordon. His refusal to address Cameron's well-put points on the uselessness of Brown's proposed inquiry into whether rules were followed, led him looking very leaden indeed. Cameron looked very dominant. Cless not bad but poorer than in the last couple of weeks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8047607.stm
At 30 Seconds to 40 Seconds into this Clip Gordon Brown calls reforming MP's expenses "Extreme Action"!!! It is not Extreme Action but the Correct/right course of action!
It is obvious the interests the PM is looking after and it is not the people!
I scored it even.Sadly Dave's millionaire slip showed a couple of times.Has he settled his wisteria account yet?
Can you add the speaker to the point score totals?
Sounds like he scored -1 to me.
Yes very quiet PMQs today. Only funny bit was the look on Ed Balls face when they were discussing returning money earned from house sales and CGT. His eyes were enormous and he looked like the proverbial rabbit in the headlights. Does he wear contact lenses or something ? He always looks slightly manic with his staring eyes and red face.
Do the rules and conventions of the House permit members to Twitter in the chamber?
There was a right fuss about pagers some years ago...
No really, I’m curious.
Sky are calling it for Cameron.
"Mr Brown is refusing to order his cabinet to pay back any money"
Not going down well. Especially as some super troughers like Phil Hope and Hazel Blears are paying money back.
Jacqui Smith coming under attack on her expenses from the police federation. There is a great clip with plenty of applause for an attacking delegate on sky news.
Brown behind the curve as always.
Rubbish Iain - Cameron scored 10/10 and i don't even like him. He plays to the country, not the benches, he knows this is his moment and he played the ball perfectly.
Doesn't mean he's gonna be any good as PM though!
May I draw readers attention to something very funny and deja vue-ish from YouTube?
Gordon's Worst Week HIGNFY
Dull as ditch water, wish I'd stayed in bed. I shouldn't complain, they provided plenty of entertainment yesterday.
On the subject of expenses it would seem that one MP hasn't been entirely straight about her circumstances, The Mysterious Margaret Moran MP.
If you think the MPs were restrained in the Chamber you should see them walking around the Parliamentary Estates - faces like slapped backsides with the exception of DD in usual robust form.
Perhaps Sandra Gidley could twitter the full details of her expenses- then she might be taken seriously.
But then who takes that twitter crap seriously in the first place ...
Desperate Dan,
The outside body should be the public! Publish and be damned or praised as fits, and it wouldn't cost a lot. Detailed expense claims not just the ACA ones.
Post PMQ Update. General view is that Brown got it wrong. Again
I want to echo what people have already said about Martin & The Beast. The Beast didn't ask a question and should have been ruled out of order. Furthermore, Brown should have realised there wasn't a question involved and kept his arse firmly rooted to the Treasury bench.
Cameron came across as a Primeminister should. Brown didn't really. The Speaker should go. The Beast should phrase his nonsense rants as questions. The Speaker should get a new watch.
Once again Brown just doesn't get!
If his proposed committee go back four years looking for MP's that have broken rules then they probably will find very little if anything.
GORDON IT'S THE RULES THAT ARE WRONG...... STUPID!Gordon do you remember the 10p tax?..... No you just didn't get that either!
" Cameron then suggested that the number of MPs should be cut."
By about 117 seats -ie all the MP's for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which all have their own parliaments and are therefore doubly represented.
"Parliament" should be an English parliament with only the 529 MP's for England in it.
Now that'll save a whole lot of money in itself.
Cameron won by a kilometre (preparing for the Euro' elections).
Brown looks ill,alone,washed up and should surely run up the white flag.
This is a country he is supposed to be running,not his career for God's sake.
Surely we could get a discount on two second class rail tickets to take two down-and-out's up to Scotland,drop one off at Gorbals and the other off at his second home,sorry first,sorry it is his second,nope its....
I think brown did rather well.
cameron has shown leadership over the past few days and you can tell this irks brown.
but overall brown should get 6 to daves 5 i can't even remember cleggs contribution.
I agree with scores, Iain, but it was a downer for Cameron after he had such a good day yesterday.
In the discussion over the number of MPs, I think Cameron was dead wrong. In the US it is very very hard to get to speak to your Congressperson and virtually impossible in a big state to get to your senator. British MPs do a great more individual service to constituents and, FWIW, spend a lot less time raising money for re-election.
He was also wrong in his comment about Spain. Even if it's not formally a federation, it is in fact composed of powerful autonomous regions, as Gordon Brown suggested.
PMQ was - as usual - a knockabout !
Whilst they had to read out the names of the latest casualties from the latest conflict they deem necessary, they soon got down to point scoring over expenses !
Err - the guys they used to feed in to the farce are still dead ! And for what, exactly? A hangover from the Blair/Bush bollocks whilst the poppy harvest is still making its way here ?
At least in Iraq, it was about fuel not drugs !
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