Many analogies are being drawn between the decline of this government and that of the John Major administration in the mid 1990s. Some are apt, some are not. In some ways this is worse because John Major had no parliamentary majority at all latterly, while Gordon Brown still has a majority of more than 60. But it is clear that parliamentary discipline is at a low point.
The thuggish group of whips who have traditionally instilled fear into Labour MPs are now the subject of scorn and ridicule. Nick Brown, John Spellar, Tommy McAvoy and Ian Austin have lost control, as evidenced by the Gurkha votes. No fewer than 12 government PPSs abstained. In normal circumstances that would have been a sackable offence. Threats, blackmail and coercion no longer work as whipping tactics. Labour MPs feel they owe nothing to the Prime Minister. Some openly laugh when they are threatened by whips. When Ian Austin stood at the entrance to the Aye lobby during the Gurkhas vote Labour MPs just walked past him shaking their heads in disdain.
The result? The government lost a parliamentary vote on an Opposition motion for the first time ever. Quite an achievement, really.
And this is only the beginning. As the Revolts website noted last week. Once you've rebelled once, it's easier to do it a second time.
28 comments:
I find the majority, if not all, of NuLieBore MPs revolting...
Labour are doomed - DOOMED!
They are getting 12 years of control freak tendencies back in 12 months before the Labour Landslide defeat!
Hopefully the LD's who helped Labour make such a mockery of parliament through tatical voting pacts will be annilated at the same time.
Labour + LD = DOOMED!
it is precisely because of thier intimidating, black book using, hard drinking, press smearing, foul mouthed and intellectually dishonest way of whipping that they are now in this situation.
Calm, reasoned persuaion should usually work. If it doesn't , then more than likely the government is in the wrong and should change tactic well before a vote is taken
Iain,
This isn't the first time a gobernment have ever lost on an opposition day motion.
Harold Macmillan's government also lost one.
Whips are just doing their job in this "democracy", the real disgrace is the Speaker.
If it weren't for the fact that Nick Brown's useless hide is a chief whip I wouldn't care much. That this creep is part of it and Jimmy Brown's best chum is just delicious!
'first time ever' for this (1997-) government, presumably?
And to top it all off the SNP has increased its lead in opinion polls from last week.
http://www.snp.org/node/15249
Details of today’s poll TNS/System 3 are as follows:
Holyrood Constituency Vote (with change from 2007 in brackets)
SNP: 41% (+8%)
Labour: 29% (-3%)
Tory: 15% (-2%)
LibDem: 11% (-5%)
Other: 3% (1%)
Holyrood Regional Vote (with change from 2007 in brackets)
SNP: 40% (+9%)
Labour: 30% (1%)
Tory: 13% (-1%)
LibDem: 10% (-1%)
Green: 4% (nc)
Other: 4% (-7%)
Holyrood seats analysis
Running those figures through the Weber Shandwick seats predictor gives the following result (with change in brackets):
SNP - 58 (+11)
Labour - 41 (-5)
Tory - 16 (-1)
LibDem - 12 (-4)
Green - 2 (nc)
Westminster voting intentions (with change in brackets)
SNP: 32% (+14%)
Labour: 36% (-4%)
Tory: 19% (3%)
LibDem: 9% (-14%)
Brown is certainly no John Major (and that should tell you something!).
At least Major had some bloody guts.
Can I say I hate bullies!
Can someone explain how whips can put the fear of god into grown men and women?
If anyone came up to me and told me how to vote or said it would not be in my best interest to vote in a particular way, being an Ex-Royal Irish Ranger and a straight talking Ulsterman, I would tell them to go **** themselves and if they wanted I would meet them to sort it out like men.
I am now convicted we need to scrap the bullying tactics employed in parliament is it acceptable that this type of activity goes on in the place that makes our laws? Or do we just elect weak MP’s and bully boy whips?
“A political party is the group that holds politicians of similar views together and gives them a platform to engage with the electorate however; it’s the electorate that permits them speak”. Ranger1640.
A few quotes that politicos should remember:
"Under Nu-Labour common sense is now a thought crime". Ranger1640
“Government of the people, by the people, for the people”. Abraham Lincoln
“You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time”. Abraham Lincoln
“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crises. The great point is to bring them the real facts”. Abraham Lincoln
“No man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent”. Abraham Lincoln
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”Henry Louis Mencken
It is not the first time ever that a Government has been defeated on an Opposition motion. The Government was defeated on an Opposition motion, to reduce the salary of the Industry Secretary, on 11 February 1976. And the motion 'That this House has no confidence in Her Majesty's Government' - that was carried and brought down the Callaghan Government - was an Opposition motion!
Governments have also been defeated on Bill amendments that have been moved by the Opposition.
We the elecotorate need to remember:
"Not until we change and demand change will we ever see change"! Ranger1640
At least in the dog days of Majors administration the country was still functioning.
Oh how sweet are Jeremy clarkson's comments about the "one eyed Scottish idiot" now.
But Iain is there any precedent to replace a Prime minister TWICE without an election?
I think if Liebour did that they really would be stuffed, especially if they tried to put someone in without a proper election within the Liebour party.
Harman wants the job (and god help the white male population if she gets it) and will have a lot of support from those vile short haired 'wimmin with the pudding bowl haircuts'
Labour has totally lost the plot.
Hazel Blears slags off Brown, then Straw says she has issued a statement clarifying her remarks that were meant to mean she supported Brown totally.
Even Straw looked less than believing.
Never mind, at least Sky have their Labour troll Peter Spencer spinning away.
Ooh, you are awful....but I like you.
I've looked at Ian Austin's potted biography on his website. He seems to have done very little apart from politics in his entire life:
* Labour Member of Parliament for Dudley North since 2005
* Political adviser to Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer 1999–2005
* Deputy Director of Communications, Scottish Labour Party 1998-1999
* West Midlands Regional Press Officer, the Labour Party 1995–1998
* Constituency Assistant/Researcher 1994-1995
* Councillor for Coseley East on Dudley MBC 1991-1995
* Communications Manager, Focus Housing 1989-1994
He is born in 1965. He has a degree in politics (no surprise there) from Essex, presumably graduating in 1986. This gives a three year gap from 1986 to 1989 when he might have had a proper job. I somehow doubt it.
This kind of making a career largely on the public purse out of your tw@ish and wrong-headed political self assurance is beginning to make the old East Germany look positively benign.
The Major comparisons might be right, however, I can't help thinking the whips not knowing what's happening is more akin to what Thatcher had near her downfall. With the leadership contest, the whips were either telling her what she wanted to hear or truly didn't know what was happening. The same happened with Brown, I'm not sure if they were telling him what he wanted to hear (to avoid a mobile phone or printer being thrown at them, I presume) or they were so clueless they thought that the Government would win. Either way, it spells trouble.
Jesus how much worse can this government get? I read everywhere about Major and Callaghan, but this seems so much worse.
Working Class Tory is right in arguing that the situation is worse than under Major and Callaghan. The Labour Government of 1974-79 started with a miniscule majority and then lost it in April 1976. It was remarkable that the Government managed to last into the fifth session of the Parliament. The Major Government started with an overall majority of 21 but saw it eroded by by-election losses (and admittedly, for a time, by the self-inflicted blow of removing the whip from eight Conservative MPs). Both Governments struggled, but the key point is that neither enjoyed an overall majority on a scale that Brown inherited.
If you sampled any 350 New Labour supporters with these questions;
Was Gordon Brown complicit in the banking collapse by virtue of the failure of his "new regulatory power"?
Did his changes to the way inflation in the economy was measured, CPI as opposed to RPI mean that the housing bubble was missed?
You would find more than a few who would find Gordon guilty on both counts, so it follows if he cannot see what they can see then his judgment is not to be trusted.
This is what is happening amongst the 350 New Labour MPs, many of them have lost faith in a man too weak to admit to his own faults. No amount of "whipping" no matter that some of them may like it will ever guarantee Gordon 100% support from his party again, not even on a confidence vote.
Working Class Tory @ 5.54
You say you read about Major and Callaghan and this government seems so much worse. I well remember both the Major and Callaghan governments and, believe me, this government is worse; much worse.
The thuggish group of whips who have traditionally instilled fear into Labour MPs are now the subject of scorn and ridicule. Nick Brown, John Spellar, Tommy McAvoy and Ian Austin have lost control, as evidenced by the Gurkha votes.Why only now? They should never have had such control in the first place.
No fewer than 12 government PPSs abstained. In normal circumstances that would have been a sackable offence.Why? This is nothing more than bullying and is not befitting the Houses of Parliament.
Threats, blackmail and coercion no longer work as whipping tactics. Labour MPs feel they owe nothing to the Prime Minister.They owed nothing to him in the first place. Though they may have been selected by their party they were elected by their constituents.
The thuggish behaviour has presumably always gone one, and most often gone unreported. Why? It does the nation and the public no benefit to hide odious practices and odious people from our sight.
Some openly laugh when they are threatened by whips. When Ian Austin stood at the entrance to the Aye lobby during the Gurkhas vote Labour MPs just walked past him shaking their heads in disdain.Parliament is filled with party lickspittals. That is one reason why this country is in such a mess - people not doing their jobs. An MP is there to represent their consituents first and their nation second. Yet in all parties it is often the Party which comes first.
Oh for a bit of backbone in Parliament rather than the mass of lilly livered infants that make up the bulk of the members.
It's quite laughable that Brown's whips have a list of the rebels and are out to get them. One of those on the list was Diane Abbot. Is it wise to take on a woman who has the opportunity to air her views on the BBC on a weekly basis, where she shares a programme with Andrew Neill who happens to have another show on every weekday. This would blow back in their faces with epic proportions. Of course, with this shower anything is possible.
The Government Whips’ Office has a hit list of twenty MPs whom it wishes to see deselected, since that sort of thing is no longer considered any business of local parties, such as there still are in any case. Indeed, in David Miliband’s South Shields constituency, even local council candidates are chosen by his London office, three hundred miles away.
Eight names are now in the public domain: Diane Abbott (Hackney North), Kate Hoey (Vauxhall), Glenda Jackson (Hampstead), Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway), John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington), Marsha Singh (Bradford West), Paul Truswell (Pudsey) and Mike Wood (Batley and Spen).
The Whips appear not to know that Jackson has already been reselected, or that Marshall-Andrews has already announced his retirement. But the other six, together with the other twelve people on the hit list, should announce immediately their intention to defend their seats with or without the endorsement of the Labour Party. They would undoubtedly be successful, whereas several of them might not otherwise have been this time round.
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