Sunday, November 05, 2006
UKIP Loses a Constituency...
Their membership is reportedly declining, the number of people who attended this year's conference was half the total of last year and now they seem to have lost a whole constituency. Click HERE for UKIP's latest woes... Perhaps now is the time for all Eurosceptics to come back to the only Party that will ever have a chance to implement a Eurosceptic agenda...
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46 comments:
With friends like these! It realy is farcical UKIP and their silly squabbles. They paint themselves as Britian's fourth party start to gain national publicity - and then shoot themselves in the foot!
If David Cameron doesn't want on his front bench anyone who openly advocates leaving the EU, how on earth can you encourage potential or actual UKIP supporters to vote for the Conservatives whilst they are led by Cameron?
Cameron hasn't given the faintest indication that he is prepared to negotiate for any reassertion of Parliamentary sovereignty, let alone full Parliamentary sovereignty as proposed by UKIP.
Even Francis Maude in his recent Tory Radio interview said that the Conservative Party doesn't share UKIP's aims.
I speak as a Conservative party member of around 16 months (who joined up when it looked like DD was going to win) who is now searching his conscience for a reason for staying on...
Perhaps you could give some answer to each of those points, Iain.
Given the EPP pledge how can they fail to return?
JT
Point 1. Quite easily. All parties are coalitions, big tents. Ours needs to become bigger. Better Off Out members are Tory MPs - being against EU membership does not disqualify you from being a Tory MP or Party member.
Point 2. You are wrong. Cameron has done exactly that and said we should reassert parliamentary sovereignty in key areas.
Point 3. UKIP has only one aim - EU withdrawal. That is not the policy of the Tory Party so Francis Maude was correct.
Point 4. My original point remains valid. The Tory Party is the only Party which can actually implement Eurosceptic policies. They may not be as Euroceptic as you would like, but that's a reason to stay with the Party and argue your case. The alternative is to be a member of a splinter pressure group like UKIP. It may make you feel better and give you an opportunity to sound off, but ultimately it's the political equivalent of p***ing in the wind!
Iain, Every political party has problems, even UKIP and taking the mick out of UKIP on your Blog does you and this country no favours at all.
The "EUssr" poses a massive threat to the future of this country,our way of life and our democracy. Just look at the power the unelected, undemocratic regional assemblies have.
The recent introduction of new "laws" from Europe concerning "age-discrimination" had nothing to do with our parliamentary process.It was another diktat from the profoundly undemocratic EU.
The Conservative Party has shown itself to feckless when dealing with "les affairs Europeen". They have lied to the British people all the way from Ted Heath to John Major about "how we would retain our sovereignty".
Isn't it about time you enabled Nigel Farage to air UKIP's views?
Iain, I conside the UKIPs woes to be quite a sad state of affairs as yet more people will be ignored by the political elites.
The Conservative Party continues to ignore their core voters, many of whom are keen to restrict immigration, keen on grammar schools and only voted for a common market in Europe!
Iain has been trying to get Nigel Farage the UKIP Leader to appear on 18 Doughty Street - its not his fault that Nigel turns up 12 hours too early!
(Leading UKIP must be a bit like standing on an iceberg and watching it melt from underneath you!)
Jeremy why talk about the EUssr- afterall the USSR killed millions in the gulag- not sure that the EU has. Its like when the left compare the holocaust and the Iraq war- bit silly.
As to European policies and Tory failure- what you say is true. But the Tories are I am afraid your only hope at the moment given that Ukip don't have the power to do anything.
"The Tory Party is the only Party which can actually implement Eurosceptic policies."
But won't because its led by a raving Heathite who's already reneged on a Eurosceptic policy commitment, which just happened to be the only policy commitment he's actually made - and which was only made to get himself a few votes for the leadership.
Hi,
the problem UKIP indubitably has is dishonesty of its leadership - I concede both David Cameron and Nigel Farage lied to get elected.
Farage however indulged in a campaign of lies, colluding with his 'friend', HIS staff, HIS corrupt cronies in smear campaigns and serial dishonesty - this puts this particular performing monkey in a class of his own - as more and more UKIP activists and Constituencies realise that a monkey in silk is a monkey no less and no matter how you may dress a chap it does not make him other than an oik! They are leaving - the best first.
UKIP is; as Suchorzewski stated, when left with no option but to resign; rotting from the head down - already it has lost most members of calibre and most unpaid activists. Leaving just the stench of corruption.
Sadly they have no place to go, so are at present drifting in limbo, as who but the desperate would support the Vapidity of Cameron, the duplicity of Maude, the dishonesty of Clark, the shallowness of May, the posturings of Osborne, Berkow, Duncan - as for the vascillating Letwin & the foolish Ancram - sorry but there clearly is no leadership to follow in The Tories and who would follow Farage other than to posture in a studio, on a platform or in his cups! He is a man of stature only because he has ensured he is in a clatter of midgets!
Politicians are rightly reveilled and on the left despised! Seemingly liars to a man - just look at the Global Warming clap trap and scam! A science even less sound than economics which never graduates past theory and divination in the hands of politicians!
Regards,
Greg L-W.
We are not Eurosceptic, we're EU-sceptic. David Cameron called me a racist because I am a UKIP supporter so tell me why I should embrace the Conservatives? Why should I when they fool themselves into thinking they can be in the EU but not run by the EU! Madness! UKIP a one policy party? We had several proposals outside of withdrawing from the EU in our 2005 general election manifesto if you cared to read it but that would complicate simplistic name calling wouldn't it?
Members come and members go. C'est la vie. Some of us will keep our heads down and do what we have to do because none of the three main parties have a clue how to get this country Great again.
Iain - as much as I like your thinking, your ideas, your energy and your staggering ability to make things happen ... I will never vote for the Conservatives as long as the wimpy chocolate orange inspector, the huskies' best friend, anti-'climate change' King Canute and 'here's my disabled kid for yet another photo-op' Dave is the leader. Never. And you are out of touch with Conservatives throughout the country if you think other people will either.
He is a blether and he just doesn't have charisma. He has a silly face, he had a wax job done on his chest - oh, pulleeeeze! - and he is a long way away from the lives of most people. David Davis is someone people relate to, including Labour voters. He's a bruiser. Dave's true environment is in a Jaguar showroom as chief salesman. No one likes him. He comes across as semi-charming. And false.
Iain, I am of course gutted at this news NOT!
On the EPP point, what we Conservatives are now doing is forming an alternate block which does nto include head bangers.
Good. With a bit of luck the idea that we can have a Europe that is looser rather than ever closer will spread.
BTW, Iain, I sent you an email asking if you had updated your link code at all. I have not received a reply. It would be handy to know what size your logo is as well, as then i can have a crack at re writing it my self.
The only party that will ever have a chance to implement a xenophobic agenda?
IMO we have more important problems in Britain then EU membership. Promblems of our governments making and very little to do with Europe. There is little point concerning ourselves with the nazification of Europe to much when we are NOW the most authoratarian socialist westernised country in the world.
Our way of life is not under threat anymore because any understanding I have of the British way of running things is already spinning in its grave.
This country has become a very nasty place to live in for honest hardworking people of any class age sex of race.
Please try to have a little understanding of the task David Cameron has now potentialy on his hands. He must not only get elected but to anything at all without a revolution happening he must at least attempt to unify a deliberately splintered racist distrustfull overtaxed overworked public, while taking on the BBCs multi-national propergander machine. Thats just to get started.
Big job for a far too a young man, if fact in my opinion an impossible job for any electable individual never mind current politician.
He neads all the nations best wishes, because he really is not only the "great white hope" he is THE ONLY HOPE THERE IS LEFT.
God help us, because things really really are that bad, and going to get much much worse.
to come back to the only Party that will ever have a chance to implement a Eurosceptic agenda..
I wonder why you want them to join Labour
Re Nigel Garage - I like that - standing on an iceberg and watching it melt :)
UKIP had its chance to be a real force in British politics but acts more and more like a tory party pressure group each day.
Never mind UKIP.
Wonder if there are any so called MAJOR political parties that have had a 50% drop in conference attendance in the recent past?
Point 1. Quite easily. All parties are coalitions, "big tents"
Indeed
Every child remembers their first trip to the circus. Perhaps it's been awhile, or perhaps you've simply never had the opportunity to attend a true 3-ring circus under the 'Big Tent'. In either case, a truly magical experience awaits you.
As you near the circus, you' will notice the Big Tent set up on what was empty field. It appears to be a small city set up in the middle of nowhere. You enter an area outside of the main entrance lined with concessionaires, rides, and in many shows a side-show or menagerie. You buy your tickets at the ticket desk, and get in line to enter the 'Big Tent'.
When the doors open and you are ushered into the 'Big Tent', you'll notice the performance rings in the middle, surrounded by a hippodrome track. Surrounding this track are grandstand seats, with special (and more expensive) box seats down in front in choice locations.
As soon as you take your seat, concessionaires will start passing by you, selling everything from peanuts and candy floss to souvenirs and programs.
The performance itself is conducted by a ringmaster, traditionally attired in colourful top hat and tails, who uses a whistle to signal the start of each new act. A live circus band, heavy on the brass, plays lively music. A typical circus performance will start with an opening parade of all the performers around the hippodrome track, followed by several displays of jugglers, acrobats, aerialists (a flying trapeze troupe is a must) and, of course, clowns. There is typically a 15-minute intermission approximately half way through the performance during which special promotions are offered (such as programs, balloons and mugs with logo's on). Most performances conclude with the circus elephants.
Yes Iain, the Elephant is in the room.
TG @ ConservativeHome is asking what people think of WebCameron-he should ask the question again without the web!
I think that for this to happen the EPP pull-out has to be completed. Without it there is no chance of getting the UKIPers back.
Besides there are some senior party members who have a habit of calling them "the reasonable face of the BNP" which doesn't engender good relations either.
>>Point 3. UKIP has only one aim - EU withdrawal<<
I wonder why you write this crap as you know it is not true.
Why lie?
Still, it shows that your Tory TV channel is anything but seeking a balanced approach.
For UKippers to join UKIP, they first need to form the view that the Conservatives are sold out to the EU, so that they can make the Conservatives into the enemy.
Once they've done that, and formed a black and white view of British politics, they then proceed to ensure less eurosceptics get elected to Parliament, and more europhiles do get elected, as any as 25 in 2005 (Booker).
In fact the Conservative Party is a coalition between a large majority of eurosceptics, and a tiny rump of europhiles. The ruophiles have a lot of clout as they can call on immediate media support to attack Cameron if he becomes too eurosceptic on any issue. That's why he allowed Hague to fudge the EPP.
The europhiles assassinated Thatcher and IDS. Any Conservative leader has to jump to their tune to some extent, as there is little choice. The problem is that too many of the activist eurosceptics have abandoned the Party, making it easier for the europhiles to get away with it.
If the efforts that go into keeping UKIP afloat would instead go into attacking europhiles, and running deselection campaigns against them, the results would be significant.
If the europhile rump of MP's was hounded out, Cameron could move to the eurosceptic side much more firmly than he can with Ken Clarke breathing down his neck, Hague fudging the EPP, and pushing the European Reform Movement. Hague should be outed as a false eurosceptic.
If UKIP stood in europhile seats only, it would do more to achieve its objectives, and less to harm them.
The dear folk writing their resignation letter above, have lost sight of what the aim is - to get Britain out of Europe. Who cares about being a Tory pressure group? Being UKIP's turned into a dead end, so they need a new strategy. It's time for Nigel Farage to rethink - and quickly - and he is doing. Or UKIP will lose the current opportunities to swing Cameron further round, never mind the Kilroy Silk thing which is ancient history.
Why are UKippers so slow to advance their thinking? They see themselves as the vanguard of Britain's freedom, but they are in danger of becoming the best allies Brussels has ever had. Dale is right. The Cameron leadership provides a great eurosceptic opportunity. Will Nigel Farage provide the leadership which ensures UKIP are pushing Britain towards the EU exit door? Or will he line up with the outdated UKIP strategy suited to Hague and the John Major era, and which the BBC and the europhiles know and love.
perhaps its time for the only party that will ever have a chance to implement a Eurosceptic agenda...to get some Eurosceptic policies. In the meantime my vote will rest with UKIP. And every post on here slagging them off just makes me wonder why the Tories are criticising people who care about UK sovreignty.
Re Iain:
Your point seems to be that UKIP supporters should return to be Party members, and even MP's. But their views(or rather one of their views) will stop them rising to the top level of the party. Brilliant(!).
Can really see them queueing for this(!).
The EU is now our government. The Conservative Party can't even acknowledge this, so what hope of them making a difference.
What UKIP says and campaigns for is the only sane course for this country - anything else is delusion.
As a 30 yr old, married, working, conservative, I and my friends are exactly the type of people that David Cameron should be attracting. Instead, i find myself increasingly attracted to UKIP, despite my personal dis-like of Farage.
Why? Because they are the only party who are trying to address my concerns.
David Cameron and the mealy-mouthed tripe he has been spouting are driving me ever further away from the Tories. Witness his recent drivel on standardising the age of legality on smoking, drinking etc. I could not care less. New Labour have ruined this country - i am taxed to the hilt, I have no secure future cos Brown has ruined any pension hopes, I see the hospitals falling apart, the armed forces over-extended yet under-supplied, the streets where I live in london are not safe to walk, the only police I see on foot are waiting for their take-away pizza and Red Ken is about to charge me a tenner a day(!) to drive to work
The conservatives should be making political hay with people like me, but the more Cameron witters on about chocolate oranges and avoids the big questions, the more I turn elsewhere.
Despite UKIPs obvious problems, I reckon they will be seeing much higher levels of support if Cameron does not realise the effect he is having
It's simple really; vote UKIP on Euro elections and Tory on National ones...
Pablo-you will not be surprised to learn that there are many who share your views and if UKIP come up with a broad range of policies the sky will be the limit.
Anon @ 1:06
I know I'm not alone as I hear the same views expressed throughout my social circles (that generally consist of young professionals, state and uni educated, politically aware but not active)
I have friends originally from labour heartlands in the north, who recently began to vote conservative in local London elections (after many political arguments between us)as they could no longer stomach the absurdities of Labour - whether local or national. These people would have voted Tory in a general election. However, since the tories seem unable to actually commit to anything, they have lost interest and Cameron (and Letwin, Maude etc, etc) has become a joke amongst them
As the three main parties squabble over a tiny patch of centre ground, whole swathes of people like me are looking elsewhere. Anyone who can offer us realistic policies that address our concerns will reap the rewards
I'm not saying that UKIP are those people, but despite all their problems, they look more attractive to me than the Tories
Iain ( to JT) - I recently made much these point with some vigour ( See The Chimera of UKIP) precisely on the lines you argue . I am having doubts myself
“anti marketers of 1975.
…………but the thrust of the Yes campaign, as described by its treasurer McAlpine, was, “to depict the anti-Marketeers as unreliable people - dangerous people who would lead you down the wrong path”. This tactic was greatly assisted by the right wing detritus that clung to the campaign as the only log floating nearby. It reminds me of the miscellany of wastrels attached to the anti -hunting and animal rights lobby.”
History is repeating itself but I do not feel much in the mood for gloating. The Conservative Party is not a big tent and all those wanting to progress in it are quick to damp themselves down. David Cameron has floated any number of meaningless vagaries that you may interpret any way you like . In reality JT`s point on the make up of the inner tent is more pertinent .
.David Cameron consistently goes out of his way to alienate the majority of core voters so as to chase Liberal votes . Clearly he feels traditional support can be taken for granted and so by your own logic, allowing that to continue has a limit. Look at what you get if your vote cannot be relied on.
Coming back to JT , and the shadow cabinet , I can see that David Cameron will be mostly concerned with new swing voters in marginal and therefore is bound to annoy the party faithful. It is the shadow cabinet that should be reassuring the party and broadening the message coming form this supposed big tent . Where are they ?
At the moment it feels as if a toff friendly Liberal party going on inside and I am not invited. There are a growing crowd of us sitting in the dark and rain such is the strict door policy.
(…Put the metaphor down and back slowly away )
FINAL POINT- Cameron sees electoral salvation as existing in the centre . Understandable. There is however another shift to the right especially on tax, freedom and accountability that is gathering its own momentum including in the Labour party
DC can afford to be dryer on tax and allow other voices a say without throwing in the towel.
Perhaps Dale for deputy PM is the answer ?
( JT still has the smear of a Bruges profiterole on his lips , he can be bought . Nuff said )
I wonder if the answer is to organise better whithin the Conservative Party . I don`t see why I should leave it because I dislike its direction and UKIP is a most unappetising prospect. What about those of us , at a local level who dislike the Blue Rinse Liberal Party organsing mor effectively whithin .
I hold no brief for UKIP; but which party would that be, Iain?
After Heath's Treaty of Rome, Thatcher's Single European Act and Major's Maastricht Treaty, there was political integration left to do.
The current Conservative Party Chairman literally signed the Maastricht Treaty on this country's behalf, and, unless I am very much mistaken, nobody who voted against it now sits in the Shadow Cabinet.
By contrast, at least one current Cabinet Minister did vote against Maastricht; he sits alongside a Foreign Secretary who, whatever else you might think of her, is the most Eurosceptical since Bevin. The Brown set is famously Eurosceptical, far more so than the Cameron set. But, as I said, Heath, Thatcher and Major have deprived them all of anything to oppose.
Indeed, the Conservative Leader himself is the creature of Michael Heseltine, the European Commission's point man in Britain, without whose approval no one has become PM for 16 years and counting.
So exactly what Eurosceptical measures would Cameron introduce? The restoration of the supremacy of British over EU law? The disapplication of any ECJ ruling by resolution of the House of Commons, giving the UK the same level of independence as is rightly enjoyed by Germany through her Constitional Court? The non-application of any ruling under the Human Rights Act unless ratified by resolution of the House of Commons? The requirement that all EU legislation apply in the UK only after having gone through the same parliamentary process as if it had originated in our own Parliament?
As if! There are actually more Labour MPs who hold views like that than there are Tory MPs at all, aqnd there willo be next to none once the Cameron A-list has done its work (a cross-party affair...).
Not that Labour is going to do any of these things, either. But in the coming hung Parliament, proper Tory and Labour parties will re-appear, fully committed to these, and other currently taboo, agenda.
NO political integration left to do after Heath, Thatcher and Major, of course. Sorry!
I've been a life-long Conservative voter, but last week, after the publication of the Stern Report and the tory party's gadarene rush to out-green everyone else I, for the first time in my (late middle-aged) life, joined a political party... And guess what? It was UKIP.
The present "green with a hint of blue" touchy-feely-PC-hoody-hugging Conservatives must be driving their core supporters, of which I used to be one, away in droves. It's impossible to distinguish between "Dave" and "Tone" and the same applies to their parties... High tax, big government, high intervention, interfering in the lives of *adults* as if they were retarded children (if one is allowed to say that in these PC times). Cameron and his fellow travellers have hijacked the Tory party that once spoke for me and millions like me.
Iain,
I love your Big Tent analogy.
When one thinks Tory Party History, the 'Big Tent' approach has been the corner stone of our appeal to a wide range of the electorate over the years.
Let us hope that when we finally get it pitched at Westminster we don't find that the circus has moved on to Brussels.
Pablo, I totally agree with you!
I couldn't currently care less what the Conservative Party do at the moment yet I should be a natural Conservative supporter!
They no longer share my aspirations or hopes for the country. I'm disenfranchised.
UKippers above have left the Conservative Big Tent, because of Heath, Thatcher and Major signing Treaties. The battle for control of the Big Tent where the decisions are taken, is being handed to the europhiles by UKippers, where Cameron is being put under massive pressure to permit Euro Fudges from William hague.
UKIP are in full control of their two man tent, but can achieve exactly nothing, as only the big tent will decide Britain's future.
UKippers fondly believe that from outside the big tent they can influence the course of events, but they are deluded. They will be used by the BBC and others to collect a clutch of votes which would otherwise be Conservative, and which will allow europhiles into westminster. It is so pathetic, it could make you cry.
Into the bargain by abandoning the Conservative Party they ensure that the europhile faction can still control Party policy depsite Cameron clearly being eurosceptic. Fruit cake, anyone?
I used to advocate leaving the EU. Over time, my support for this has been waning. Partly, because I grew up and started looking at both sides of the argument.
Panorama's report on soaring gas prices highlighted some of the good work that the European Union does economically: the EU raided gas companies in Europe that were suspected of deliberately keeping gas prices high.
Of course there are problems in the EU. For a start, it must stop trying to be a federalist political project, and start focussing on what it does best. A reassertion of national sovereignty, and some good, hard reform is what we really need, not a UKIP government.
UKIP. Eurosceptic Tories. Both pissing in the wind, just with a slightly differing view of how the wind is blowing.
Should either of you win the argument in this country, you'll set Britain further back. However, you'll still have your rabid right-wing press to reassure you.
A plague on both your houses.
Sam Tarran:
"I used to advocate leaving the EU. Over time, my support for this has been waning. Partly, because I grew up and started looking at both sides of the argument."
Grew up? Hardly an original knock against us. UKIP wants back 100% democracy in this country. The big three parties dare not admit how little influence they have since it will show how politically redundant they are! The EU still cannot have their accounts signed off yet - after 12 years of trying! And you want to reform it from within? Madness! C'mon, you know this makes sense, stop being in denial and grow up!
who took us into europe?
who signed the single european market act?
who forced the Maastricht treaty through the HOP?
answers on a postcard please (to iain dale).
heheh I'm consideering leaving Labour so I can canvas for them.
They represent exactly what this country needs. A split (and ridiculous) right.
Mind you, this is all because my Redwood4Leader crusade has failed.
Iain you really should get facts right before publishing, firstly last years conference was attended by 700 approx members and this years was attended by 600 approx members not half now is it? Also how can a party claim to be eurosceptic when your leader supported the introduction of the euro and which belongs to a grouping that supports the single currency, supports the eu constitution and suppoerts a federal europe? Now if thats the best eurosceptism you lot can manage no wonder UKIP membership is increasing.
Ryan - your own party records indicate membership has slumped from 29,000 to about 16,500 - although some of your members indicate the real figure is now nearer 10,000 to 12,000.
The numbers attending the last conference were deliberately spun to appear higher. It is your own party members that state the last conference was attended by half the people it was last year.
A third of your National Executive Committee has resigned after the election of Nigel Farage.
Questions still remain unanswered over why 85% of every £1 donated via your Ashford call centre was taken as 'expenses' before the party ever saw a penny.
You started with 12 MEPs - 1 had to leave to to the housing benefit fraud charges - then we had Kilroy-Silk - your 2 London Assembly Members left and formed the One London group. Then we have had Farage embroiled in a News of the World sex scandal - another MEP saying he visited brothels and thinks most prostitutes enjoy working there and other sexist comments. Your ex leader employing cheap Polish workers while hypocritically having party policy against foreign workers - which he has just lost a press complaints appeal.
Your MEPs have become nothing more than massively expensive parasites and spongers living off the backs of the British taxpayer. If we sackedd them and gave them proper jobs to do then nobody would notice except the taxi driviers and restraunts of Brussels.
Members are still unhappy with the 'lurch to the right' that Farage has taken the party. In effect UKIP is acting as nothing more than a conservative pressure group.
It is also interesting to see UKIPs new initiative to form a 'virtual' political party on the 2nd life website. Its a shame that those individual active on 2nd life should first try and get a first life!
Still I wish Farage all the luck in the future and lets see where he takes the party and if members will follow his right wing path.
Since Nigel has become leader UKIP s membership has started to climb again.
Yes we have lost members but the new members signing up far out weighs those members leaving.
I was at both conference in 2005 and 2006 and there were approx the same about of members attending both.
www.europhiles-exposed.blogspot.com
www.politixnews.blogspot.com
www.ryannewellsoton.blogspot.com
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