Saturday, November 04, 2006

The BNP Vote in Rotherham: Please Explain

Scanning through my copy of LibDem News - as you do - I came across this local government by-election result from last week...

Rotherham MBC, Rotherham West Ward
Labour 1024 (44.3% +3.8%)
BNP 606 (26.2% + 26.2%)
Ind 538 (23.2% -15%)
Con 146 (6.3% +6.3%)
LibDem (Did not stand -21.3%)

I don't know much about Rotherham, but it wouldn't have figured in my Top Ten BNP Constituencies. Can anyone shed any light on this result? It is frightening how the BNP seem to be taking a real foothold in some of the northern towns. Why on earth did the LibDems not field a candidate? And how come the Conservatives can only poll 6.3% in William Hague's home town? Information and enlightenment please...

131 comments:

Beachhutman said...

Nice compact little seat on the edge od Shefield - every school except 2 now has Pakistani children so presumably locals just waking up to big changes in their communities that didn't vote for and weren't consulted about. For Rotherham 2005 read any similar sized town in the north or midlands in 2010.

Anonymous said...

Following your conference it looks as though Rotherham might be a good place to start the new dynamic,thrusting campaigning!
If Dave hasn't been there yet it might explain the result.

Peter Hitchens said...

Simple
As beachhutman said, people are waking up.
Unlike Cameron most of us dont want to hug a hoodie, love a lout or assimilate some asians.
Adios conservative party.
Tomorrow belongs to the real conservatives of this country.

towcestarian said...

The towcestarian in-laws are from Rotherham and to be honest this doesn't surprise me much. The white local population are predominantly old-style working class, who would rather be burnt alive than vote Conservative. They dislike Liberals ("tories with beards and sandals"), they really loathe TB's NuLab ("southern tossers"), and still hanker after the glory days of Arthur Scargill and the miner's srtike. They have also had large scale immigration dumped on them against their wishes and are a long way from the politically correct multiculturalism influences of North London.

So these OldLab supporters have the option of either staying at home or voting for the BNP. Large swathes of the Noth are in a similar position, which is why the likes of Jack Straw are trying to become more OldLabour in their approach to multiculturalism.

This is what happens when the 3 main political parties all try and stand on the same bit of the centre ground, those who don't like it there have only extreme parties to vote for. Be prepared for large votes for the BNP and UKIP at the next election. DC be warned....

towcestarian said...

... and William Hague came from Mexborough not Rotherham...

Inaki Extebarria said...

In France, the biggest vote for the FN (Le Pen's National Front) is usually in towns bordering areas with high immigrant numbers.

Political scientists call it the "halo effect" where you get a ring of FN support around somewhere stuffed with Algerians.

The idea being that those who live amongst the immigrants see them as normal people like themselves but those who outside only see the differences (skin colour, clothing, weird food shops etc), and being scared/angry at this challenge to their culture, they vote FN.

Maybe this French example helps explain things in the UK? Who knows, in 10 year's time you'll all be voting fascist too? Still, most Labour Home Secretaries tend to outflank Jean-Marie Le Pen anyway, with their craven bio-ID cards, CCTV, ASBOs etc.

Anonymous said...

BNP are extracting maximum advantage from the latest trial of Nick Griffin - which they are billing as the Free Speech trial. The authorities are mad to create martyrs out of BNP's leaders. And the media is getting it all wrong by denying them airtime. If people could hear the BNP, they would be able to see them as slightly unhinged. As it is the media BNP blackout enables them to exploit popular anger at the way the media fails to report issues that concern them, and say 'you're one of us'. The BNP are making ground with leaflets, website and so on.

People have had enough of the Cultural Marxist takeover of the media and the bureaucracy that controls peoples' lives, and they want politicians to address their concerns directly, noy tell them what they are allowed to think.

Because the media doesn't challenge anything the BNP says, because it is not reported, the BNP are given a free ride.

The idiots who messed up Iraq by denying the realities on the ground, are achieving the same results here - the creation of sectarian politics. It's time the media stopped hiding the BNP, and the authorities stopped suppressing them, same as they have failed to tell the truth about what's been going in Iraq for three years. The ability of powerful media to control public opinion is no longer.

The Blair years have taught the public not to trust. The only way back is to tell the truth. If the government doesn't start, and the media don't change their ways urgently (even now Murdoch is manipulating away against Cameron and pro-Brown), the BNP will find it plain sailing.

Anonymous said...

Iain, I hope you are not trying to insinuate anything by asking why the Lib Dems did not stand. It is, after all, the Lib Dems who have been taking on the BNP in Burnley and Oldham with the Lib Dems even setting up a special unit to fight the Lib Dems in the North.

Iain Dale said...

I'm not insinuating anything at all - it just seems odd to withdraw from a seat where you had a respectable 21% of the vote. I am assunming that maybe they came to a deal with Labour so as not to split the anit BNP vote, but it would be interesting to know.

Anonymous said...

Iain,

Having read the post on your site, I had a look at the BNP website.

What makes the Rotherham result worse even than it seems is that the BNP claim not to have fought a particularly vigorous campaign and claim too that the Lib Dems withdrew to avoid splitting the anti-BNP vote.

I recall a couple of similarly strong BNP showuings earlier in the yearin a couple of Midlands by-elections.

What is really alarming is that the BNP's website is so good. It is very simple for anyone to navigate, has a BNPTV option and and the opportunity to subscribe to a number of email bulletins, including a weekly email on the environment.

Griffin is clever as well as a nasty piece of work. While the FPTP system should depress their General Election support, I would not be surprised to see them take a Euro-seat next time.

Ap Rhys said...

towcestarian is mostly correct in his post I think. I work but do not live in Rotherham. However rotten and complacent Labour have been in Rotherham, the Tories and LIBDEMS have made little progress. Sadly I see BNP making a significant impression if they can find enough candidates next May. Except in very few seats what the Tories and LIBDEMs do will not matter.

Kate said...

I have no local knowledge at all, but any chance the Lib Dems didn't field a candidate to ensure the anti-BNP vote wasn't split, and allowed Labour to win the seat in preference to the BNP winning it? Whilst I'd usually despise such tactics, I'd have less of a problem in this scenario.

The gradual advancement of the BNP is scary. They now have 6 seats on Epping Forest Council, 1 on Broxbourne Council, and last month set up a branch in East Herts where they've been leafleting lately in advance of all-out elections in May. All these areas share boundaries, and are a long way from the 'northern towns' referred to in your post.

i spy strangers said...

Unfortunately, this isn't an isolated result. There was a council by-election in Loughborough last month where the Conservatives came third behind Labour and the BNP. (I think, on that occasion, the Lib Dems did put up a candidate.)

It's a worrying development.

Anonymous said...

I know Rotherham. Some of my aged Aunts still live there. My Uncles worked at the steel plants, now mostly disappeared

Labour were until very recently the default vote for the white working class. However there is now a definite & growing feeling that Labour no longer represent them. BNP have cleverly capitalised on them by claiming to be the "Labour party your Grandad voted for" - and its working - and the Labour party has only itself to blame for the fact.

BJ said...

beachhutman said:

every school except 2 now has Pakistani children so presumably locals just waking up to big changes in their communities

But there hasn't been a recent large influx of Pakistani immigrants; and there's been a large Asian community in South Yorks for a long time. Puzzling.

hatfield girl said...

As Tapestry says, 'The idiots who messed up Iraq by denying the realities on the ground, are achieving the same results here - the creation of sectarian politics.' Blair and NuLab took us into war to take democracy to Iraq (if we are to go by their second round of lies after their first on WMD was shown up) but instead Iraq was brought here with all the destruction of our democracy that entails. Now thewhite working class is voting BNP. NuLab/Old Fascism.

Voyager said...

I don't know much about Rotherham,

What a shocking statement !

We live in a small compact little island and such a statement from someone on a Conservative Party Candidate List.............it is shameful !

No wonder people turn to the BNP because the mainline parties have failed them. I bet Dennis MacShane is taking note !

To help you familiarise yourself with your own country Iain I append this blog

Rotherham

Praguetory said...

bj from the BBC returns just to show that Iain's not alone in not having his finger on the pulse. I hope all the fools wringing their hands have picked a side against the BNP - by the way Labour isn't it. It's their policies that have bolstered extremists of every shade.

Anonymous said...

So Towcestrian thinks that UKIP are an "extreme" party. Tarring UKIP with the same brush as the neo-nazi trash at the **P shows ignorance on Mr Towcester's part.
Clearly Mr Farage needs to beef up the PR a bit.
I agree though with the general sentiment. It's awful when ultra-right wing "parties" like the **P can take so many votes at any election.
Of course, those who have deliberately pitted Scot against English, Muslim against Christian will be rubbing their hands with glee.
One day the penny might just drop.
Harly surprising

Anonymous said...

The main parties are basically agreed on the "big issues". Or to put it another way the perception is that despite rhetorical differences things would be little different under the Conservatives. There is a new political consensus afoot. We can all see it. The problem is that the people simply don't want the soft focus metropolitan liberal pap that is being served up by the main parties and the "meja". The result - many feel abandoned by the mainstream. Someone was bound to fill the vacuum.

Anonymous said...

As The Times reports confidence has collapsed in the Govt's ability to deal with crime etc. Dave Cameron's waffle of the week in Cardiff does nothing to restore the credibility of the Conservatives in the eyes of Joe Public.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2436500,00.html

Andrew Kennedy said...

This particular ward covers the S61 1 post code.

Some basic research using Acorn and UpMyStreet.com show all the ingredients for BNP activity are present:

"Incomes are well below average with nearly a third of families earning less than £10,000. Unemployment is higher than average. Work is typically routine, in a factory or some other manual occupation. Jobs reflect the general lack of educational qualifications."

For the full profile, see:

http://www.upmystreet.com/local/my-neighbours/neighbourhood-profile/l/S61+1RG.html

youdontknowme said...

People are realising that the BNP are our only hope which is why they are voting for them.

The BNP hold monthly meetings in most towns (including mine) and invite those that get in contact with them. The other parties are lucky if they do one once a year. When the BNP do one in my area atleast 50 people turn up unless it's winter then it is less. If Nick Griffin shows up we can get up to 150 attending.

This is in Labour heartland.

Having monthly meetings shows that they are building locally. Parties are built up locally to get to national level. They are also destroyed locally which destroys them nationally.

At BNP meetings there is an air of revolutionary spirit just before the quiz that is held.

You see, having yearly meetings isn't a good idea. Monthly meetings allow members to get to know each other, have a little chat. You can't become comrades if you only see eachother once per year.

Anonymous said...

I would hazard a guess that people are sick of nulabour the tories are scared to be different nobody with any sense trusts the libdums so its ukip or the bnp.I have voted tory all my life but with blairwitch 2 theres no point so its ukip cos the monsters have give up.

Anonymous said...

Since they are now attracting the socialist vote, does that mean we can officially stop calling them right wing?

Now, what is it about socialists, fascist or otherwise, that draws the attention of these voters?

Anonymous said...

"and still hanker after the glory days of Arthur Scargill and the miner's srtike. "

What? You mean losing?

Anonymous said...

The BNP electoral success can directly linked to the Governments appeasing and mass importation of immigrants, and local councils falling over themselves to appease minorities.

There is no doubt that immigration from pakistan and bangladesh make an area significantly poorer. Pakistanis are easily the most economically inactive ethnic group.

To quote the Rowntree Foundation:
"Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are easily the poorest groups in the country.
High unemployment among men; low levels of economic activity among women;
low pay; and large family sizes: these all contribute to a situation in
which 60 per cent of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are poor. This is four
times the poverty rate found among white people"
"The social security system, and especially means-tested benefits,
contributes a large proportion of the incomes of some minority groups,
especially Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. "


(the Joseph Rowntree Foundation)

bt said...

For 'old labour' supporters the BNP must almost be like coming home, most of its policies could have been written by Nye Bevan - nationalise everything you can lay your hands on. Throw in some not explicitly stated but generally believed (nudge nudge, wink wink) antipathy to outsiders thought responsible for unwelcome changes, a so-called NuLabour government addicted to slaughtering socialist sacred cows and an opposition that avoids opposing, and it'll attract pissed-off voters.

How many and for how long largely depends on the quality of the main parties, which frankly is abysmal.

The Tweedledum/Tweedledee political game is getting very tired; people see major problems all around with more looming and they're being offered palliatives. The major parties need a collective boot up the arse to get them out of their comfortable business-as-usual mindsets and the BNP which seems to attract traditionally left-of-centre and UKIP attracting old dyed-in-the-wool tories, might do just that.

The voters are making their own choices.
I think it's called democracy.

Anonymous said...

Josh -

Facists/Nazis never were right wing, both were bastard offspring of the left.
Old Musso started as a communist (Lenin declared that Benito was the greatest statesman of the 20th Century. Pity he didn't live long enough to see how he ended up) and Adolf's lot were the National Socialist Workers Party. 'Course the reds hated it because socialism had been decreed as 'International' - National Socialism was an heretical aberration.
Splitters!

Anonymous said...

Your typical white English person feels very threatened by Islam.

You only have to draw a cartoon of their prophet and they are declaring a Holy War, calling for 9/11s all over Europe.

I know 99.99% of Muslims are not like that but you'd never know it from watching the BBC.

We have IslamOverload, we have had enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Johnny Norfolk said...

I think ordinary people feel that politicians have just become so far removed from reality. If you want to know, go to Rotherham for a few days and talk to people, real people. You will be told the answer and still nothing will be done.

Prodicus said...

Dunno how many times this has to be said before people get it but, in all but race, the BNP is a party of the left. THE LEFT. (Like Hitler. Remember him?) Makes them ideal candidates to scoop up Old Labour supporters who feel unrepresented.

Anonymous said...

The BNP has a minuscule number of councillors and lots of the ones that do get elected don't seem to last long. The BNP have no momentum and no prospect of getting their hands on any meaningful lever of power for the foreseeable future.

May the Lib Dems were trying to save some money?

verity said...

In the next election, I hope the BNP and UKIP make out like banditos. The two major parties and the Lib/Dems have treated the electorate like morons who can't look around, see the evidence of their own eyes, and draw their own conclusions.

The electorate sees the dramatic decline in everything all around them and they see ever more immigrants pouring in - and whether they pour in legally or illegally, they are still pouring in - to overcrowded Britain, with absolutelly no border controls and no criminal or health checks.

They are aware of, but don't go into, whole areas of towns/cities the immigrants have turned into muslim ghettos where no one speaks English. Terrorism worldwide is conducted by muslims, not the militant wing of the Little Sisters of Mercy, and they see in opinion polls that huge swathes of muslims either "approve of" or "can understand" it. They read of hate-spewing imams (on welfare, yet), of muslims demanding special concessions, of muslim special interest pleading groups hectoring the indigenous peoples ... and they hear the government and the Conservatives saying, "There, there, there's nothing to worry about. We're fixing it. Meanwhile, we're sending the police round to question you about being a 'racist'."

They see the utterly inept and contemptible Gordon Brown sneaking in ever more new hidden taxes and they see them squandered. They watch in quiet disgust as Blair preaches the "climate change" (formerly known as "global warming) mantra, and jet off to Africa, Europe, Russia, the United States, anywhere he can get an invitation, and Cherie jet off separately to wherever there's money for a speech and some freebies she doesn't bother to declare when she arrives back, having maxed out her overdraft on her carbon allowance.

But the New Labour machine is like a hippopotamus - thick skinned, insensitive,cunning and very strong. And the Conservatives chose a gnat to counter him.

People know that these attempts to deceive them and disenfranchise their voice in their own country are malign. They feel no loyalty to the two major parties that deserted them, and they have quiet contempt for their leaders.

Both parties are going to get beaten to a pulp in the next election and I for one will take great pleasure in viewing their stricken faces, eyes wide with ssurprise and pain, as they realise the voters have delivered a punch to the kidneys. The parties have treated the electorate with contempt for so long, they apparently feel complacent now. Good. All the greater will be the shock.

mistral said...

Anon 11:12

"I know 99.99% of Muslims are not like that but you'd never know it from watching the BBC."

Oh yes they are Mr anonymous.

You clearly have not read the results of recent polls.

Look it up! 37% of Muslims think Jews are a "legitimate target" - 16,000 Muslims in this country are "willing to embrace violence to bring an end to "decadent and immoral" Western society".

There are plenty more depressing statistics like this if you can be bothered with the facts.

What the BBC did, and failed the nation in this respect, is to allow members of the BNP a voice, or indeed any others who do not follow their line.

I don't know what the BNP stand for , other than having a vague notion that they are anti-immigration because I have never heard any body from that party speak. Their website is incomprehensible to me and appears to be a bit of a rant.

I don't want Muslims in this country. They do not want to integrate and embrace our way of life. The majority want me to live under their laws. If the BNP comes closest to making sure they leave, I am interested. If the BBC does not want me to know about them, they become even more of an attractive proposition.

If the main parties cannot approach this issue honestly and confront this openly, they only have themselves to blame for losing votes.

Hamham said...

I have been to rotherham - and the result doesn't surprise me.

However what does surprise me is that anyone is surprised at these results.

What are the main parties offering these voters/ Absolutely nothing. Whereas the BNP is offering something tangible, if impracticle and, depending on your point of view, distasteful.

I thus wonder what odds i could get on there being a BNP MP within the next two elections.

Remember they thrive on low turnout - and in some northern seats if turnout hits 40 percent - and there is a strong local issue - i could really see this happening. Of course, the BNP are there own worst enemy, but when your electoral opposition are effectively the labour party - the competition is hardly tough is it.

p.s.
- If Nick Griffin is reading this. Your are an absolute prat.

verity said...

As Mistral indicates, Anon 9:12, your assumption that 99.99% of muslim immigrants don't approve of terrorism is a slithery factoid put about by a very frightened tony blair and a preening BBC, which promotes it. The Florence of Arabias at the Beeb makes the Camel Corps look like Attila the Hun islam-wise. So the government lies in a panic - have they ever been out of panic mode since they came to power 10 years ago? - and the Beeb reports their lies as facts.

Go to ipsos-mori, ukpollingreport or many other opinion polls, and your eyes will be yanked wide open.

There may indeed be many tens of thousands, or even a half million or so adult muslims who are pleased that they are in Britain,mix around and want to prosper here and fit in. Fine. If they want to create wealth in Britain, that's good. I'm a capitalist and I don't want to discourage a wealth creator.

But the government has consistently lied - against the findings of opinion polls - about "tiny minorities" of approvers of terrorism. The actual figures deriving from opinion polls belie them.

newmania said...

The BNP have no momentum and no prospect of getting their hands on any meaningful lever of power for the foreseeable future.
...LIke the Lib Dums , I wish they`d both go away

mirthios said...

Inaki Extebarria said...
"Who knows, in 10 year's time you'll all be voting fascist too?"

Britain has been doing that for the past ten years. No single word sums up the authoritarian antics of NuLab better than "fascist".

Manfarang said...

youdontknowme
Tell everyone about east Germany.I am sure you are familiar with what is happening there and have plenty to say.

Johnny Norfolk said...

Iain
What realy concerns me is that YOU do not know the reason. I actually think you do know the reason but cannot bring youself to admit it.

We cannot bury our heads in the sand much longer waiting for the next bomb to go off.

Look at our history and find out what had to be done to win the Second World War and the part The Isle of Man played in it.

Manfarang said...

johny norfolk
Internment?We tried that in Northern Ireland and it failed.

Johnny Norfolk said...

I was not saying we should inter people but showing the type of thing that had to be done to ensure victory.

This government is doing things that don't need to be done and avoiding the real issues and hoping it will all go away.

but of course it will not.

Anonymous said...

Funnily enough much of the BNP appeal is on Law & Order.

If you are a Muslim in Bradford beset by crime and drugs and gun-toting kids to whom do you turn ?

Labour has failed miserably, and the Tories are a joke on Law & Order. In Newcastle Somalis and Pakistanis are on trial for murdering a policewoman 600 metres from the main police station in Bradford...............

To which political party do Muslim shopkeepers turn for proper Law & Order ? A Muslim Party promising Sharia ? Or must they join with the White voters and vote BNP ?

Chuck Unsworth said...

Norfolk Blogger: 'It is, after all, the Lib Dems who have been taking on the BNP in Burnley and Oldham with the Lib Dems even setting up a special unit to fight the Lib Dems in the North.'

Quite probably...

Nothing like a bit of internecine warfare, eh?

Anonymous said...

With apparantly 1,500 immigrants coming in every day, and 1,000 British people leaving (you don't think they are immigrants keen to go back to the Third World do you?) perhaps people are objecting to the replacement of the ethnic British people?
One thing is for sure, none of the three main parties have a clue how this social experiment they have started (without consulting the electorate) will end.
Go to any of our large cities and you'll see how the character of the nation is changing for the worse.

ilkleymoor said...

Iain,

What does it matter if Rotherham is Hague's hometown? Do you honestly think the electorate would make the connection or care, for that matter?

rallies said...

manfarang

well it worked in South Africa

Anonymous said...

Poor Iain. Nice decent chap who thinks he's living in 1950's Britain plus a few yummy ethnic restaurants for cultural diversity; totally oblivious of living in the pile of poo the lib/lab/con party has turned this country into. The most important part of the next election will be by how much turnout falls

Nicko said...

The problem is that whilst the Lib Dems and Labour might have tried to consolidate an "anti-BNP" vote, they aren't actually fulfilling the task, nor are the Tories.

All three parties have wilfully abandoned discussion of immigration, political correctness and tough law and order. These areas are big ones for the BNP to rant on about, and important especially in the North, so if the big 3 leave the ground totally open to them, what the hell do you expect to happen?

This is a pretty shocking bearing out of the entirely reasonable warning that Philip Davies MP expressed back in April:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1759484,00.html

Anonymous said...

On this subject (of Muslims being the worst kind of immigrant to have), even the normally mild CofE has come out against them, saying "their complaint often boils down to the position that it is always right to intervene when Muslims are victims... and always wrong when Muslims are the oppressors or terrorists".

Admittedly the bishop in question is not your normal white liberal C of E man, many of whom no longer even believe in God I think, but rather the son of a convert from Islam, and goes by the name of Nazar-Ali, rather than a more Anglo-Saxon name such as Carey or Williams.

Harry Barnes said...

Denis MacShane is the M.P. for Rotherham and has an article on the by-election on page 9 of this week's Tribune.

newmania said...

Powers of internment can always be used by another government on you . So can information . Census information about ethnic origin was used by the US to find and intern those of Japanese descent. This was not legal until it needed to be .That goes for any powers and information the state gets its mitts on. High walls make good neighbours and the biggest baddest neighbour we have is the state itself .

towcestarian said...

I have never previously been muchin favour of it, but I think one "answer" to the "Rotherham Problem" is an English Parliament. But for it to work it would have to be physically located well away from London. For us yokels outside the M25, London is synomymous with 3 things alien to the rest of the country:
1) Massive wealth
2) Chattering liberals of all political hues
3) Unrestrained multiculturalism

Sheffield would be an excellent location, having absolutely none of the first 2 and still relatively little of the 3rd. Just don't let NuLab decide where it should be, otherwise the English Parliament would probably end up in Wales or Scatland.

griswold said...

There is a vacuum in British politics and the BNP and UKIP will take up some of the slack. It is no use vilifying BNP. Try to understand who their new voters are. They include English born and bred working class who do not relate to latte swilling NuLab and who feel that their livelihoods and way of life are being threatened by immigrants. They feel disenfranchiesd. Other new voters include the more affluent who believe that the two main parties are not addressing the immigration/law and order issue and that Britain/England is losing its identity. Curse them all you like BNP/UKIP are are here to stay. Perhaps some of their supporters have as much right to publish their views as do the never ending stream of Muslim spokepersons. I say this as a Conservative Party member and supporter.

Neil Craig said...

"the latest trial of Nick Griffin - which they are billing as the Free Speech trial"

If so the working class people of Rotherham are showing better liberal principle than those in power. It IS a free speech trial & the decision to retry him because the jury wouldn't come up with the right decision is outrageoaus.

It is easy to defend the free speech of those you agree with it - the test is defending those you don't.

It is also worth pointing out that the BNP were against attacking Yugoslavia & Iraq which arguably gives them some moral high ground over the 3 main parties.

Anonymous said...

Why is it that the Conservatives can only poll 6.3% in William Hague's home town? They obviously know William Hague thats why!

Anonymous said...

UKIP are making virtually no effort to fight council seats. Could they have done a deal with the BNP to allow Griffin's party to make the running at council level? Let's face it, if UKIP wanted to 'build' a party for the long term they would be going all out to establish UKIP at a local level. Or maybe Farage and his fellow MEPs are just in it for the rich pickings available in Brussels?

Yak40 said...

Tapestry:
Agreed, BNP is filling the vacuum created by the refusal of the major parties to address legitimate concerns of many voters.
Contrast Griffin'e (re)trial with the free ride given to demonstrators calling for the death of the Pope, and assorted other threats.
It's illustrative that a recent Daily Mail piece on Griffin's trial was the only one that day that did not allow reader comment !

Blogfan said...

I think most politicians just don't know how angry people are. I'm not in the slightest bit surprised.
We all know the problems and the main parties are no longer trusted to deal with them.
Working class people (they still exist) feel abandoned and ignored more than most, don't be surprised if they start joining extreme parties in large numbers.

Verity said...

Blogfan - they also feel angry because there are no opposing voices. All three main parties are now reading from the same script, robbing the voters of their democratic right to choice.

The vast majority don't want to be governed by Europe. And these people who dub Europhobes "Little Englanders" are terribly ill-informed. Many people who don't want Brussels to govern Britain actually live on the Continong, or have holiday homes there. Many others go somewhere on Ryanair or Easyjet once or twice a year. This includes people flying for holidays abroad on their benefits. Obviously, we all like Europe; but we don't want to be governed by them.

People also know that our ancient laws have been superseded by the blair-imposed Human Rights crapola that has created chaos in our criminal law and in our ability to control our own borders.

The major parties all take a lofty, tut-tutting attitude to this and the voters aren't taking kindly to such superciliousness. I predict a huge turnout for UKIP and the BNP.

mlouivz said...

Anon 11:24 says "The most important part of the next election will be by how much turnout falls."

It won't fall. It will go up. All the people who have sighed their way despondently through the last two elections are fed up with waiting. I believe they'll all turn out at the next election. And I believe they won't be voting for any of the three traditional parties, who are offering them absolutely nothing that Britain needs.

Ian Thorpe said...

The big question is how can the lib dems be languishing in national polls and yet get 21% in this election without feilding a candidate.
Maybe they should announce their intention to not contest the next general election.
BTW yes the BNP are scaring us up north. The trouble is northerners who would formerly vote for a dog turd if you stuck a labour rosette on it are rejecting Blair but will never vote Liberal or Conservative.
Oh well, I'll keep doing my bit for the Greens.

verity said...

Ian Thorpe promises to keep doing his bit for the Greens. That's good news for the rest of us,Ian! The Greens need intelligent, literate people such as yourself.

Err, the Lib-Dems didn't get 21% of the vote despite not fielding a candidate. Because they didn't field a candidate, they lost the 21% of the vote they won last time. That is why there is a minus sign in front of the 21%.

Cinnamon said...

Spending some time down the pub, talking to my neighbors who are all upper working class nearly well-to-do guys I'm getting the vibe that it is a protest vote and also a realisation that first the Tory party got polluted with corruption, now Labour is in a similiar position, so, the BNP cannot do much worse.

The main thing is that the BNP is pitching itself as an anti-immigration party with a focus on the muslim problem, and that is what gets the vote, no-one much cares for the rest of the BNP's concepts, but there is this feeling that the house is on fire and so, the first priority is to stomp on the flames and sort out the debris later on.

The Tories will need to choose sides instead of trying to be everyone's best friend.

youdontknowme said...

I thus wonder what odds i could get on there being a BNP MP within the next two elections.

Within 2 general elections they will have more than one MP. They will have atleast 10. The far left can only delay the advance of the BNP.

Within 25 years we will have a BNP government.

The rise of the BNP is due to the rise of the political parties treating the ordinary voter with contempt. Long ago MPs did actually care about people but the last government that gave the British people major help was the Attlee government.

Most voters vote for the party that their fathers or mothers voted for. The parties know this which is why they no longer care. They will know as long as a lot of people do that they will always have a chance of winning even if they have let millions of legal and illegal immigrants in and continued to pander to the muslims.

If they will get your vote regardless of what they do they aren't going to care about what the normal people want.

verity said...

Cinammon - I agree with you. The voters have been uneasy for some time, smelling the smoke,watching faint wisps curling under the door. Now they've realised their house is on fire and their first instinct is to stomp it out using whatever comes to hand to smother it. That is the BNP and UKIP. Both at least care about their country. All three major parties only care about their country in a dilettante, distant kind of way (if that, in Tony Blair's case). But the citizens love their country and are now at the stage where they will fight to protect it from being completely destroyed.

That means giving the finger to Brussels and cutting impertinent and violent islamic immigrants down to size - probably by terminating funding for all their quangos, for a start.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the BNP did not win two or three seats in the next election. And UKIP, too, might win a couple. And once the ball's rolling, others who feel disenfranchised will scramble on board.

Rob said...

I still have a UK vote, and I shall be voting for the BNP. Why? Well I am probably echoing the previous comments, but it seems to be that the BNP is the only hope for anyone who wants traditional British culture to survive. My place of birth, in East London, has become a Muslim homestead, thanks to the policies of Labour and the Tories. The Muslims have no respect for the native culture, and are perfectly happy to vandalise churches, terrorise natives, etc. This is not immigration, but colonisation. It must be stopped if we are to remain a nation state. If it does not, the UK will look more like the Balkans.

Anonymous said...

I wonder when Shaun Woodward will defect back to the Tories

verity said...

rob - Yes, we must be the first people in the history of mankind to simply give our country away - after hundreds of thousands of our ancestors fought to preserve it.

It is obscene.

I also have a UK vote and I will be voting for UKIP or the BNP - whichever one is running in my old constituency. They are the only two parties that want to preserve Britain.

Yes, the Muslims came into Britain and Europe as colonisers. Our other immigrant groups settled down and took on our way of life down through the centuries, but the islamics are here to colonise for their desert cult.

If David Davis were the leader, I would trust him to do the best by Britain. I simply don't trust Dave and I don't believe he has a clue about the average Briton. It is ridiculous to present an OE as someone capable of running a country he doesn't understand, and doesn't care about very much either. He has never had to make ends meet. He has never had to worry about getting his children a decent education.

I know he uses the NHS for that disabled kid - who seems to be off the landscape these days; I wonder if he was just a hired hand - but I would be surprised if he and his wife don't have private medical care. (Of course, I would approve of that; but there are millions who can't afford to go privately because they're having huge contributions whacked off their salary cheques to pay for the NHS and treatment for hundreds of thousands of non-productive immigrants.)

The people in Westminster Village are so out of tune with the country it is tragic. Those A lists are disgusting. (Sorry, Iain, but I am convinced that someone of your worth would be selected in any event, purely on merit, by a local association.)

BNPhome said...

Speaking as a yorkshireman, I'm not surprised we're voting BNP lots.

We have a metropolitan spiv as leader of the conservatives who has no clue what life is like for people north of Watford.

We don't hug hoodies. We knock seven bells of shit out of them and it works.

We're also paying the price of open door immigration. You lot in leafy suburbs think cheap plumbers is worth the social cost for us. You're not the ones having uninsured polish van drivers crashing into your cars. Stop telling us its good for us you patronizing ****s. We live with it and we don't like it.

Why should we vote for someone who is not trustworthy enough to take a principled stand on immigration?

Why should we vote for someone who will not make a stand against the EU? The single most destructive thing to happen to our country since the luftwaffe.

Camoron is all image and no substance. While we northerners are politically naieve and ill educated slobs, we know a spiv when we see one.

The man has no clue about defence issues and the only party that has openly questioned European Defence integration and the fact that we are losing both wars as a result is the BNP. They're on the ball. your not.

The tories are not with the programme. They are chasing after a straw man voter.

While you london gimps are squitting in your knickers about global warming and other pie in the sky codshit, we are the ones on the ground paying for your stupidity.

We've had nine years of Blair. Why do we want a crap imitation?

UKIP is a weak force up north because its too posh for the likes of us so we got our own version. The BNP. They might well be racist but at least they have a spine.

We're sick of political correctness undermining our cultural values and heritage and not one of you westminster f*cks has the balls to say something ans stick by it if you think the left wing media will rip you to shits.

You walked away from us. deal with it.

Manfarang said...

Immigration has been controlled by the various Commonwealth Immigration Acts and changes in the Nationality Laws.Many comments here are in fact referring to those who are not immigrants at all but where born here.
If you are British,but were born outside of Britain and marry a foreign woman then your children will not be British.
Thus my true blue friend Colin who was born in the West Indies and has a Thai wife has children who are not British citizens.
Many of these increased restrictions result in making life difficult for all Britons.

Dr Random said...

I'm shocked how little people seem to know about Rotherham (and South Yorkshire in general) I live nearby in a town with very similar demographics - Doncaster - although if it is possible, Rotherham seems to be an exaggerated version.

Both are mostly comprised of ex-mining and manufacturing (steel) communities which have by default voted Labour. Until recently, it didn't matter who the candidate was, or what they had done (see Donnygate), but if you had pinned a red rosette on a donkey it would have won.

The fact that the BNP have done well is not a surprise - similar results have occurred in the poorest wards in Doncaster too. The feeling is that Labour does not represent them any more, it is a party of the metropolitan elite in London and no longer anything to do with the grass roots. I don't think it is necessarily anything to do with race issues, it is more a class thing.

Towcestarian:

It would be welcome moving government to Sheffield, however I think you are extremely misinformed about its demographics. West Sheffield (up the hill) is one of the wealthiest suburbs in the country (ahead of almost all of London) and is extremely leafy (and correspondingly expensive). You'll find plenty of chattering liberals there. The problem for DC is that they do vote Liberal. The civil servants would be very happy there. They might even like it...

The Remittance Man said...

Quite frankly, Iain, this is the fault of the two main political parties. Both of them appear to have assumed that their traditional base will vote for them come what may and have set off in pursuit of the votes from same small sector of the population: the educated, well-off, "liberal" (in the American sense of the word) urban middle class. And not surprisingly their traditional supporters are increasingly feeling resentful and abandoned.

Natural conservatives are not voting for the Tories either by abstention or active conversion to UKIP. A significant chunk of the asian community, traditionally labour supporters, are being tempted towards islamic radicalism. And an increasing number of the white working class, battered by the last few decades of change, feel abandoned by their tribal party of choice and are being lured by the BNP's siren song.

That there is even suspicion that some of the mainstream parties colluded to try and preserve an anti-BNP alliance simply reinforces the impression that those parties are simply interested in maintaining the comfortable status quo for their own advantage and sod the voters.

dr random said...

PS Here is a list of income corrected by local cost of living for each constituency. Note that many Northern towns and cities are not at the bottom where you would expect because the cost of living is a lot lower than down south, although if you sort it by actual income it is a different matter.

It is interesting to compare with the colour of the sitting MP - there is less correlation that you might expect.

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2003/05/14/ukwealth.xls

Neil Craig said...

"verity said...
rob - Yes, we must be the first people in the history of mankind to simply give our country away - after hundreds of thousands of our ancestors fought to preserve it."

Yugoslavia did it in Kosovo for 50 years before we decided to join in. I regret to say that because Yugoslavia was a genuine & honest attempt at multiculturalism & Milosevic "a man to whom any form of racism is anathema" (Lord Owen under oath).

Most European countries & the USA have areas which have been equally alientated. It does not have to be this way since, among wealthy countries, Japan & South Korea both claim a zero immigration rate (though since we claim 2 per 1,000 such figures are clearly unreliable).

http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_net_Migration_Rate_dall.htm

swan's egg said...

Iain, the rise in the popularity of the BNP over the last few years seems reminiscent of pattern of voting habits which (as one of your more mature readers) I have observed before, back in the 1970's - incidentally the last time Labour was in power for any length of time. I recall the media and politicians of the main parties panicking a bit then too over the huge increase in electoral support for what is essentially a bunch of Nazis. Then as now, it was largely due to a sense of disillusionment over the incumbent government's lax immigration policies among other things. The National Front (as the BNP was called in those days) was nearly successful in many by-elections and for a while was seen as a serious challenger to the main parties, mainly in Labour controlled seats. It all evaporated into thin air of course, when Maggie Thatcher & the Tories replaced the tired old Labour lot in '79. So I'm not surprised by these results at all - I've seen it all before! The only worrying thing to me as a life- long Conservative, is UKIP which didn't exist in those days and could well suffice now only to split the Tory vote in some seats, perpetuating the Labour stranglehold. Is this really what all you potential UKIP supporters really want? UKIP certainly won't get enough real power to do anything - it'll just keep the Tories in opposition for longer. And I don't see Gordon Brown going for an early departure from the EU, or stricter immigration policies, do you? As for all the people on here wringing their hands over the despoilation of the country and its values, well you may be right, but I don't think voting for a bunch of Nazis(well realistically, that's what the BNP are)would please our forbears - didn't we fight a world war within living memory to defeat this particular nasty political ideology, or are you all too young to remember that? Alternatively, you have a glorified pressure group(UKIP) and I see nothing but further frustration ahead for you as you will still fail to achieve any of the changes you so badly seek. Far better to join one of the main parties and fight for your beliefs from within, you might actually make a real difference if enough of you did so. But perhaps just sounding off and putting your cross in the BNP or UKIP box on your postal vote form is the easiest option - hmm? Sorry for getting on my soapbox - I just hate to see people repeating the same old mistakes, that's all - but -(sigh) I'm probably wasting my breath.

Manfarang said...

Verity and Rob
I wonder which part of the world you are in?If we are giving our country away who are we giving it to-the Americans?
The Balkans-Croats,Bosnians and Serbs are all slavs,the same race.And they have been there for centuries.
The Poles-there has been a Polish community in Britain before the EU existed.
Colonisers?Are you not of the same race who created the British Empire.Don't you know any history-the Opium Wars.The drug pushers and drunkards(British) didn't seem to have much care for native culture.Some things haven't changed!

verity said...

manfarang - I have absolutely no idea what the point of your post is.

swan's egg wants people to vote Conservative because if we don't, we'll split the vote, which I think is weak reasoning and a vote for the vile status quo. Don't try to change anything, because it may have negative consequences. Nothing moves forward with that attitude.

Second, surely you realise it is not just the Tories who are deserting their party. Labour is having to sell peerages because it is bankrupt. Its membership has fled.

Where do you think they have fled to? Certainly not the clone party. My guess, disenchanted Labour voters will vote BNP, maybe in their hundreds of thousands. Disaffected Tories will vote UKIP. Where only one of these parties is running, previous Labour voters and previous Tory voters will put a tick next to that candidate's name.

toker said...

"Mexico is the world’s largest consumer of cannabis, followed by the US, with Tanzania in a surprise third place. That’s according to the Tanzanian press, anyway."

Can you corroborate, Verity??

verity said...

Gosh, Toker, I don't know, never having been to Tanzania. But it could possibly account for its inclusion as one of the sinkholes of the world economy by P J O'Rourke in 'Eat the Rich'.

No idea about Mexico. We all have our windows and doors open all day and I've never once smelled any wafting about. I did read that they were thinking of legalising it but no idea what happened.

Why? Looking for new markets?

Cinnamon said...

Another reason why the BNP is doing better than the Tories in Rotherham, and sadly so, soon elsewhere:

Tory councillor suspended over 'racist' email
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=414866&in_page_id=1770

The party immediately suspended her and if she has spine, she'll leave them after that, because not only is this ridiculous but also disloyal from the party itself.

ghost of john trenchard said...

"BNP have cleverly capitalised on them by claiming to be the "Labour party your Grandad voted for" - and its working - and the Labour party has only itself to blame for the fact."

indeed.

I wonder when will the MSM wake up and stop calling the BNP "right wing". They are a national socialist party.

towcestarian said...

Dr Random

As a former resident of Sunny Donny, thanks for your update on local demographics. My time there was in the mid-80's when it truely was the Socialist Republic of S Yorks, but it was a good/fun place to live for all that (said as a Lancatrian). I always thought the posh bits of Sheffield were actually in Derbyshire, but that might just have been biased thinking on my part. I still think it would be an excellent place for the English Parliament - maybe we should start a pressure group.

Laban said...

From the Radical and Right site :

In Rotherham West this week, the BNP coming second with 26% of the votes is highly significant. The Labour candidate did not do badly, but it is relevant that the Liberal Democrat Party did not field a candidate. One explanation is that the Party did not wish to split the anti-BNP vote and was prepared to let Labour have the Left side of the electoral field to itself. There is probably more than one reason though, for the LibDem absence. The Party has not been doing well in elections in industrial towns when the BNP intervenes. It does not enjoy trailing the BNP when the results are declared, as it has to maintain an appearance of momentum at all times. The Party lacks deep roots and is in constant danger of being marginalized by the Labour and Tory Parties and so has to create an aura of imminent breakthrough. Whatever the motive, the absence of a candidate in Rotherham West will have propped up Labour's majority over the BNP.

R&R are BNP supporters, but the analysis seems sensible enough.

My view is that as immigration continues, so will politics reflect ethnic divisions. Seen the news from Fiji recently ? A possible future.

I wrote in Jan 2005:

"As the Native Brit population declines, and natives become the minority in more and more areas, politics will almost inevitably become split on ethnic lines. The demographics are still pointing all one way, the Tories are unlikely to win this year and less likely to make major changes if and when they do ever win.

So in 20 years or so there'll be a nativist British party, representing a substantial proportion, if not a majority, of the native English. The only question is what the name of that party will be."

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that people are blaming Labour for this result, saying that Labour shouldn't have abandoned the values of Scargill and co!!!

Labour actually got a respectable result here, scoring 44%. It's not reasonable to expect Labour to score 66% (i.e. to get all those who voted BNP to vote Labour). The fault here lies with the other parties, the Tories and the Lib Dems - why arn't you trying to get people in the north to vote for you?

Labour is becoming the only national party and are singlehandedly trying to see off the nutters - the BNP in the north, the SNP in scotland and PC in wales. It would be nice if the two other major parties pulled their weight too.

youdontknowme said...

well you may be right, but I don't think voting for a bunch of Nazis(well realistically, that's what the BNP are)

You obviously don’t have a clue about the BNP. I used to think like you until I decided to give the BNP a chance and actually see what they are like so I got in contact with them and got invited to a local BNP meeting.

Since then I have been to 10 full branch meetings and 20 activist meetings. Only once did I ever hear anything racist uttered. That man was a new guy. He believed that the BNP were in fact nazis and he was a nazi. The whole room booed him out and he hasn’t been again since. We think he was a leftwing agitator.

No doubt the BNP were once Nazis during the Tyndall years. Since then they have changed for the better and are no longer nazi.

Manfarang said...

Verity
Double standards.You expect to travel to and live in other countries and be well treated but in England you think foreigners and immigrants should be subject to nothing but abuse.

Manfarang said...

STOP PRESS
Mrs Bland's (not Mrs Dale's)email.
Poem just a light-hearted joke!

Anonymous said...

swan's egg said:

"I don't see Gordon Brown going for an early departure from the EU, or stricter immigration policies, do you?"

No I don't. He'll be doing exactly the same pro-EU rubbish that Cameron would do.

TottenhamLad said...

I, a life long Labour voter, have voted for the BNP and will do so in the future.

Why?

Here's a tiny little reason for starters...

From:This is London 3rd November 2006
Tube workers cleared of 'Jelly Baby racism' after ££250,000 pound trial

Cinnamon said...

manfarang,

actually the joke is ancient and has been imported from the US. Google for 'Illegal Immigrant Poem'

People mail jokes to others to bond with them, and if you want to know what and how someone is thinking listen to the jokes they tell.

Basically, this 'resistance' has gone underground mainstream, so to speak, that is, everyone pays lip service to whatever the PC police expects to hear, and in private, people groan, moan and crack sarcastic jokes about the entire mess.

That particular joke is quite harmless and perceived to be very true in parts by the majority of people, and the Tory party suspending the lady is basically telling all those people that the Tories cannot be trusted to

1) have a laugh

2) protect their own over trivialities like this, but put them in the stocks first and then ask questions later.

It sends the message that the Tories are just as untrustworthy and PC as Labour.

So, Iain asked what is going on in Rotherham, and I think my answer is is that people are turning to voting BNP in the hope of blackmailing the Tories back to sanity.

Guessedworker said...

None of you - not one - understands the dynamics at work in the Western world. Beneath the presentational, electoral message about Islamification, the BNP is engaged in meta-politics. It is traditionalist and anti-liberal in a post-modern, entirely liberal polity.

When you understand the alignment of forces - Western elites against the very people from whom they sprang, etc - then you are in a position to critique the BNP. For example, is it taking the most effective course to save our people from complete deracination and dispossesion?

Until then, put away the slurs about Griffin being "a nasty piece of work" (I bet not one of you has ever met him) and all the rest of the "fascist" slurs. You are just doing the work of the liberal race-traitors for them.

Wake up ... think less conventionally ... be intelligent.

Rob said...

Manfarang - I am not a liberal. I don't feel that I have to be even-handed about the survival of my culture, and the survival of other cultures. Based on a particular ethical standard, some cultures are better than others. Based on my ethical standards, the native culture of the UK is better than the culture of the Islamic immigrants.

The mainstream political parties are committed to being even handed between the cultures, which in practise means giving massive encouragement to minority cultures, such as Islam. Based on my ethical standards, this is evil. Objectively.

Anonymous said...

One of things that 'alienates' the 'White working-class' is being referred to as the 'White working-class' As one member of my family put it, 'when exactly did I stop being 'English' and become a 'white'?

Cinnamon said...

guessedworker and other 'Friends of the BNP(tm))':

When Nick Griffin quits visiting the German Neonazi NPD conferences (the original Nazi party, in case you skipped history lessons) then you might have more luck with your claim that the BNP is not a Nazi party.(google for NPD and Nick Griffin)

Until then... Nachtigall, ick hoer dir trapsen, laut und unjeschickt.

(Nightingale, I hear you stomping, loud and clumsy)

Guessedworker said...

Cinnamon,

Here's what Wikipedia - not a nationalist-friendly medium - says about the NPD:-

"The National Democratic Party of Germany (German: Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands, NPD) is a political party in Germany. The party, founded November 28, 1964, is a successor to the German Empire Party (German: Deutsche Reichspartei, DRP) and has been led by Udo Voigt since 1996. The NPD associates itself with the black-red-gold pattern of contemporary Germany, but also identifies with the black-white-red color combination of the German Empire. Despite - or perhaps because of - its nationalist agenda, opponents regard the NPD as extremist; in an effort to marginalize the party's appeal, they often identify the NPD with the color brown, which represented Nazism in the 1930's."

I wonder why you slur those like Griffin who properly realise that the defence and preservation of our ethnic interests is an ultimate value - not secondary like prosperity or freedom. It could be mental laziness ... just adopting the methods of the mainstream elites. It could be that you are not of English or European ethnicity?

Are you a Jew, perhaps? If so, do you think that Englishmen and Germans have the same right to preserve their own ethny as Jews, Indians or Chinese? If not and - uniquely - it is the Great Nazi Sin for Europeans to do so, why? Why must we dissolve ourselves in a sea of non-judgementalism and brown-skins?

I smell hypocrisy.

Manfarang said...

Laban
"in 20 years there will be a nativist British Party"
There already is one.It's called the Democratic Unionist Party.

verity said...

Iain, I saw Doughty Street for the first time last night and enjoyed it, despite the guest being hyperactive brass neck Mark Oaten. He looks like such a sneaky person.

Anyway, you're a good interviewer. I could only understand about one word in every five or six that Zoe said. She has a very heavy London accent. She looks pleasant enough and has poise, but she is very difficult to understand.

For some reason, I couldn't get the part on which Croydonian appeared.

I was pleased to note that y'all were pronouncing Doughty correctly!

youdontknowme said...

The NPD don't seem nazi to me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany

Cinnamon said...

The NPD is the direct successor of the NSDAP spiritually, for legal reasons, since it was not possible to continue with the old name and symbols.

A renewed attempt is being prepared to ban the organisation as an enemy of Democracy, as they survived the previous one. There is much discussion whether we should ban them for being Nazis or not, but no discussion at all on whether they are Nazis.

Furthermore, the NPD are directly supporting Islamists, due to the 'common goals', with legal support, that is, they have given Hiz'but'Tahir their best lawyers to help that group out to face the German Supreme Court. In Germany, we don't ask much other than that any party/organisation upholds the basic principle democracy and does not have statutes that goes against it. If they don't pass that test, and they become a menace, they get banned, an important safeguard mechanism that older democracy haven't got(yet). This isn't done lightly at all, an organisation has to really become a problem for them to be treated that way, consider this to be the nuclear constitutional option, which is used sparingly.

The NPD have such nice members as Horst Mahler -- PLO trained ex-RAF (Red Army Fraction) founder, now staunch Neonazi and well connected with Islamists(google it), which if you think about it, is pretty extreme, this man would not last in any other political party longer than 5 minutes. I suspect that even the BNP would kick him out... :-( )

Now, I don't expect a Brit to understand this stuff, or to be able to pick up the finer points of this all without being fluent in German AND well read in contemporary history, which is why I'm explaining it here. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I think there are some dimensions to this that you people just don't have mapped at all.

The other thing that you should consider that in Nazi eyes, you as an Englishman or Islamist etc, no matter how buddy-buddy you are with those guys, are still an Untermensch, even Mussolini and the Tenno were considered second class quality humans. No matter how friendly a German Nazi will get with you: You will NEVER be an equal, this is a blood and honour issue.

Those people are no-one's friend, not even each others.

Cinnamon said...

guessedworker wrote, asking me directly:
"Are you a Jew, perhaps? If so, do you think that Englishmen and Germans have the same right to preserve their own ethny as Jews, Indians or Chinese? If not and - uniquely - it is the Great Nazi Sin for Europeans to do so, why? Why must we dissolve ourselves in a sea of non-judgementalism and brown-skins?

I smell hypocrisy."

I'm German from a very old family.

Do you have any other questions that you can embarrass yourself with asking me?

But thanks for making my argument that the BNP is a Nazi party a shoo-in.

This doesn't invalidate the current problems with immigration or radical religions at all, if anything it illustrates my point that the likes of you need to be deprived of leadership in those important topics asap by the smarter folks.

Guessedworker said...

cinnamon,

"Old German family" doesn't quite do it, does it? I asked if you were Jewish, and whether the English have the same right as Jews in Israel to advocate their ethnic interests.

The second part of that question, of course, stands irrespective of your ethnicity. So answer it, please.

Intellecually, I don't think you are nearly competent enough to take me on. But if you want to size me up, by all means visit the multi-contributor blog I own. It is:-

http://majorityrights.com

Search the archives. You will, I think, be perfectly unable to stand comparison with any of my writers.

Now, answer that question about English ethnic interests. And while you are at it, explain what leadership you can offer a dying people.

Manfarang said...

guessedworker
Conversation I once heard at a British university
Turkish student:What do you think of the English?
Jewish student:I am English!
The Turk was/is a Kemalist.
We were all friends by the way.

Anonymous said...

Ian
I hope the response to this BNP post and the other on English lack of democracy is being passed on to your leaders, are you English men or traitors. WAKE UP BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE

Cinnamon said...

guessedworker:

'An old German family' should have give you a bit of a clue as to my 'racially pure' pedigree. *cough* Still have problems working it out? Here is a hint: Would the old Nazi racial purity laws be in effect, courting me would be life threatening for you. Think about it.

As for your ridiculous idea that the NPD are not Nazis, that is quite funny, in the same way that it is amusing that the NPD has financed the Islamists in Germany to pay for the legal defense as to not get banned as a subversive organisation.

The NPD itself has been subject of a number of attempts to ban them for being Nazis, and of course they claim they are not, because it is illegal to have a Naziparty in Germany (for the obvious reason).

Now to address what you think should be done about the problem of radical Islam -- well, if you could read German, you would be able to read what the German Conservatives(CDU) are doing about it, and you would be informed that the Green Party is asking Turkish woman to not wear hijab because it is backwards and against human dignity. (hijab, not niqab, again, think about it)

Yes, Britain is a bit behind the curve here, and I am hoping that the Tories will once again be a political force, instead of the farce they currently are.

As goes for taking on your superior intellect, I leave that to yourself, since you have all the talent and ability that is needed to commit public social suicide. You do not need my help here at all :)

Guessedworker said...

cinammon,

I accept that you are a deracinated German, then. But you did not answer my question, which is really very important.

Here it is again:-

Do the English or Germans or Euro-Americans etc have the same right as non-Europeans to preserve their ethny, to pursue their own interests and only their interests, if they wish, and to protect the birthright of their children?

You see, neither the CDU in Germany nor Tony Blair here, with his sudden interest in cutting benefits for immigrants and getting the Home office to actually function, offers leadership. In both cases they are merely offering us sight of their moral weakness and electoral fear.

Of course, the issue is not about niqabs and benefit curtailment. These are sticking plasters ... mere politicking. It is about the genetic ethnic interest of the native people.

In political terms - meaning metapolitical - there is no solution consonant with ethnic genetic interest within the liberal polity. There is no solution to be got from the self-interested, anti-white elite of the one-party system - left or right liberalism not being a real choice.

The solution to the survival of Western Man lies in the replacement of advanced liberalism and its managerial elite by a system such as, for example, was in effect in Britain before the last war (ie, Conservative in the old sense, not free-trade, free-choice right liberal).

You might glimpse in this that I am a revolutionary Conservative and an English nationalist, not some kind of monstrous straight-armer. But you won't see that if you can't pull back and get a longer political view, if you possess the requisite thinking beans.

Guessedworker said...

Incidentally, cinammon, you were the one who raised the issue of intelligence, not I, in your initial slur. My defence was and is that a capacity to process the facts of the matter in hand and to discourse at a level above petty bad-mouthing is a pretty good sign of intelligence. Another is not leaping to the wrong conclusions about whom you are dealing.

The immigration issue is a race replacement issue, and the liberalism issue is an issue of managerialism in opposition to native ethnic interests. These are the demarcators of real political knowledge, the perquisite for which is, of course, intelligence.

Manfarang said...

guessedworker
A quarter Of London's population still has some Huguenot blood.
Of course it was the skills that these people brought with them which helped this country to become industrialised.

Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Hehe, well said Cinnamon. The thing you have to remember about Guessedworker is that he will turn a thread about the best carrot cake recipe into a diatribe about how Jews are 'subverting our ethnic interests' or somesuch...and as has been said, it is people like him that will forever be an embarassment and hindrance to any aura of respectability the BNP might obtain. The man is the John Kerry of the BNP...

Anonymous said...

Rotherham is the asylum centre of the U.K. the local council do more
the asians and asylum seekers and don,t care a fig for anyone else. That,s why the B.N.P. are doing so well don,t take my word for it come and ask the town folk I have lived in Rotherham 66 years the town was great till our careing council started to take in vast numbers of asylum seekers and heaven knows who else. Ask the council what the cut of point for number of asylum seekers are and your are branded a racist as even our own local consertive has been called. The town has gone to the dogs take my tip and keep away

Anonymous said...

I was a labour voter for all my life that of course is when it was old labour a goverment that that stood for the working class and local council where all folk who I think did the job for little money more a sense of duty and pride unlike the shower we have in Rotherham now. who claim more in expenses then I earned for a lifetime in steel. look after the muslims and asylum seekers that is their cry and as for the recent vote
for a local council ward the result was kept out of the local papers even the sheffield star and even off local radio until 2 weeks later because the only won by a small amount who came 2nd the b.n.p. of course other times the results are out double quick

Anonymous said...

I'm not the least surprised that the BNP are gaining momentum. I live in Scotland and they have a significent presence here as well. A whole shift of Glasgow firemen were disciplined for refusing to hand out leaflets (in uniform) at a Gay Pride march a few months ago. The men objected on religious grounds that men dressed as nuns would be mocking them like a Village People sideshow. This Watch had earned the admiration of local people previously by rescuing hundreds from a chemical plant fire in Glasgow. For refusing to take part in Gay Pride in uniform they were suspended fined and in the case of their shift leader demoted losing £6,000 pa. Their unions and Glasgow City Council hung them out to dry. Enter the Glasgow branch of the BNP.
They organised a petition collecting thousands of signatures from local people. They were the only party seen to be backing the "hero's".
Outside of smart city dinner parties gay rights arent a priority to the guy on the street, but the demonising of working class men who save lives is. The BNP have tapped into that seething rage on the street. I've always voted Conservative but never again as Cameron doesn't speak my hopes and fears for my country and my childrens future. Every second person I speak to is considering voting BNP. Its all very hush hush of course because we have the remnants of a vicious Far Left up here in the wild North.
Its ironic that the BNP appeal to traditional Labour voters AND trad Tories, even the SNP are fielding Muslim candidates to mop up what they can of the Muslim vote, more or less conceding that their core supporters see them as ineffectual against the twin horrors of our time namely Radical Murderous Islam and wide open undefended borders.

Anonymous said...

Well said meg
just a couple of questions for someone in Rotherham when did anyone ever see. Dennis Mcshane in town .Where was he when Rotherham united needed him from going bust it was left to the fan,s to save the club. The list is endless never around a waste of space

Anonymous said...

I was in Sheffield the other day and walking along minding my own buisness when a group of african,s who where i suspect asylum seekers as Sheffield has a great many like most towns. in South Yorkshire to laugh and point at me for no reason that I could see and as they were jabbbering away in theie tongue what would have happened had I reported them for racial abuse to the local council.not much Ill bet racial abuse works both ways but not acording to to lord,d and masters

Anonymous said...

I hear Ahmed of Rotherham has been on B.B.C. tv giving his own views of the racist laws again one side,d of couse I will not Debase the title of Lord by calling him that he is not worthy of the title. Trust the creeps of the BBC most of em could crawl under a snake,s belly with a top hat on

Anonymous said...

As many have rightly written, it is the BNP, and only the BNP, that is standing up for native Britons. The three main parties have all treated us as morons. Now we're fighting back and we'll give the buggers in London summat to think about next May, you see. It's the end for the three main parties who are bust in any case.
Everyone should vote BNP even if you hate us. (Vote EUKIP if no BNP candidate. Spoil your paper if neither BNP or EUKIP candidate is standing).

Nick Chance
BNP
Three cheers for Nick Griffin and Mark Collett

Little Englander said...

Nick Chance.
Well said sir about time someone had the courage to say go and vote B.N.P. its time to stand up and be counted look at blair now again pracing about trying to look like a world statesman while the uk go,s to pot. he should be locked away like down a old mine shaft and left to rot alomg with the rest of his croneys

Anonymous said...

Iain you must know really, that sleepy sea-side towns are talking more about the BNP. Crawley was last year, but now Hove and Worthing are.

The BNP, some think, would serve to scare our Lords and Masters who ignore us on policies like the EU, an English Parliament, tax and immigration. The concern is that people may get what they vote for if they vote BNP to scare the main parties.

Cameron's dessertion of the right leaves the way open for extreme viewpoints from the far left: the BNP. Sadly, too, Nick Griffin's trial was an attack on freedom of speech and the positive publicity gained for the BNP is typical of rebellious factions gaining at the expense of oppressive rulers.

A concerned resident said...

Explain the B.N.P vote in Rotherham that,s easy the whole town is full of asylum seekers and muslim,s all invited by a labour council look,s after them at the expense of the townsfolk make shure they get voted time after time

A concerned resedint said...

Stone me Rotherham we where shoping in Tesco,s yesterday and folk where coming to blows over parking space,s Tesco.s is the only free car park in this town as this barmy council have shut down most town centre car park,s to stop folk from useing them in a effort to try and force folks on public transport and the town is so full of one way systems is barmy shops stand emptey for years do yourself a favour keep away

Plain speaker said...

Some good news at last hamid naseem the boxer has been striped of his M.B.M. Pity he was not put back in jail the cretin thinks he is above the law

A REALIST said...

Ref ll this trouble in the midland,s with the suspect terroist,s just go in arrest em no one need know and drop em down a disused mine shaft a few ton,s of quicklime and that,s your lot

Anonymous said...

obesyj

Anonymous said...

Rotherham has been in decline for years. It has an air of despondency hanging over its boarded up shops and the town centre in general. It seems populated mainly by loads of drunks and groups of immigrants mooching aimlessly about. Denis mcshane cares little for the town and it is just a stepping stone for him. Residents should vote for a local person who has lived in the borough and not a sharply dressed journeyman. new labour and the governments open door policy is a disaster for the town.

Not suprised Resident said...

I used to live in another part of Rotherham untill 5 years ago when i moved to this ward. Speaking frankly i came from a school and an area that had very few if any immigrants at all, and the odd asian schoolmate.

Moving here was a shock to the system, an area which is predominantly (from what iv seen) ruled by the asian minority and the immigrant majority. you cannot walk down the street without being shouted at or verbally abused by one of the two.

And yes, i came from a labour voting family background, but it doesnt suprise me the amount of people voting BNP in this area. We cannot get dentists because the government pays our local dentists to take on immigrants, we cannot get a local doctor because there is no space due to all the immigrants dumped here, and god help me if i have kids.

The local school has a class with 10 kids that cannot even speak english. The last thing i need is that sort of environment bringing up my child.........

So yeah, BNP looks nice and rosy right about now, maybe you should come live here and you'd realise that we are a dumping ground for any and all unwanted asylum seekers and immigrants, and maybe after the abuse you'd get, you'll realise its not about how much money we have that rules our vote, its about our community getting shat upon that makes us hope for some stronger policies on foreigners.

Anonymous said...

I live in Rotherham and to be honest I'm shocked at the way my town has changed.

We are being over run by muslims and I for one am not suprised people are turning to the BNP.

I saw a speech on TV from Enoch Powell. He was right you know... but nobody had the courage ro admit it...until now!

Anonymous said...

I am unfortunate enough to live in Rotherham, and the place is full of ignorant and repulsive people, most of whom know little about politics. The result did not surprise me at all.

Anonymous said...

How come there are so many people so racist & prejeduce of Asian Muslims living in Rotherham on this blog? They have been there for god knows how long now & a lot are now actually born in Britain! Yet, many people seem to think as though this is a threat now when in actual fact it never has been! There is no threat to culture here & there never has been!

Smiley said...

I'm from Rotherham so I can explain this result.

Graffiti, litter, crime, violence, rape, burglary, and of course the destruction of local countryside by New Labour.

Only the BNP promises to do anything about it. Nothing to do with race.

Although it's not very nice going to Rotherham and getting dirty looks from Asians in your own country.

Anonymous said...

people saying im racist are stupid im not racist im a realist 25 yrs ago u never saw any other race in rotherham now its hard to see a british white person like i say im not a racist im a REALIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!