Another nauseous train journey into London reading the latest expenses revelations. They range from the arguable to the simply indefensible. What kind of thought process does one go through to make the decision to charge bags of horse manure or swimming pool repairs to the taxpayer? Answers on a postcard to the usual address...
David Cameron is making noises about taking disciplinary action. That's easy for frontbenchers, but beyond withdrawing the whip, it's not easy to see what sanctions he can bring against backbenchers. Public stonings, perhaps? :)
40 comments:
Is it not easy?
Withdraw the whip from back benchers and announce a short list of Conservative candidates who will fight those seats at the next election.
Deselection?
You have to hand it to Douglas Hogg if you are going to claim calim for a moat. I wouldnt mind so much if it was a real moat and he offered to leave it to the country as part of its heritage.
Best excuse so far. "I only had my pool cleaned once after that I knew how to do it myself I think that is value for money."
Why did it take so long to comment Iain your indignation over Labour expenses has rightly been palpable? Had you passed out with shock that people on the other side were just as bad?
This Parliament now has no legitimacy is morally bankrupt and corrupt. The only answer to such a situation is a General Election now.
I suggest that any MP you shows genuine contrition, makes a full apology, AND repays the full amount falsely claimed, with interest, should be allowed to continue.
Otherwise we will end up with hardly any MPs.
Oh, come to think of it ...
Alan Douglas
He can drag their names through the mud. These are the men whose behaviour and attitudes have resulted in the Conservative Party being out of office for 12 years. He's owes them nothing and the country owes them less.
What about getting them to pay the money back? That would go some way to appeasing the public.
After all, if someone is accused of benefit fraud, they have to pay the money back!
Most of them can afford it and it will be the fact that they are filthy rich that will p*ss the public off more than anything!
Sanctions? Withdraw the whip and put pressure for deselection.
At first I thought this scandal was over-egged but this institutional grab for cash is leaving me lost for words.
How can the Conservatives now argue for public spending efficiency when they submit extravagant claims to get their moats dredged, their grand pianos retuned or there gardens tended too?
PAY IT BACK!
I wonder how long the public's anger is going to keep alive before severe apathy is going to set in.
I noticed that Lord Tebbit is urging a boycott of the major parties in the European election but wondering if this boycott will spread to the general election as well.
Hopefully Cameron can fulfill his promise to discipline those who deserve it but alas I have to agree with you, is there actually that much he can do since they were approved by the fees office. I suppose it's too much to ask for some of them to fall on the proverbial sword over this.
Getting away from the Tories for a moment why has all the media pressure focusing on Hazel Blears -although deservedly so- yet Alastair Darling seems to have dropped off the media map so to speak, even though he 'flipped' his house 4 times.
Game over the tories.
Not the fact about screwing the system, but the choice of goodies.
All camerons hard work has just been massacred with one fail swoop of people that have about as much in common with joe soap as an alien.
Gordon Brown will be laughing his ass off today!
That’s News morning update. Predicts more tears before bedtimeI have had a thought. I hope the Telegraph is 100% certain of their facts...
a) withdraw whip today, b) start moves to boot out of party today, c) Make it clear Today that the LOcal Association must select a new candidate at once and that if the idiot in question had any honour he would stand down, d) show how much HE disapporoved of these men & women by personally ( today) asking the police to investigate if they had gained pecuniary advantage by deception.
If Cameron calls in the old bill on his alleged miscreants ( who are mainly backbenchers & has beens anyway) he shows that he is a new type of clean Tory and he poses a real challenge for Labour & the Lib Dems where far more senior figures are alleged to have behaved badly. If getting the taxpayer to clean out your moat is okay then, these chaps will be cleared by the old bill so innocent men have nothing to fear right?
But Dithering will not do, Cameron has to act swiftly (like today) and utterly ruthlessly. This will offend some Tories who feel we should not get colleagues into trouble but these idiots have let us all ( as Tories and as taxpayers) down. These men ( and women, as I do not forget spellman) have no place in politics since they appear to confuse personal advantage with serving the country.
Come on Dave, the Met are used to interviewing Tory MPs, ask them to get into action now!
Dave the Twit is so spineless I can't see him doing anything.
He needs to be "bloody, bold and resolute". If it means changing half the Conservative MP's at the next parliament so be it. This is both the right thing to do and probably the best thing to do politically.
Over the last twenty years, businesses have learned that if something goes wrong the best response is always to be honest and do the right thing. It usually leaves you in a stronger position than before. In the odd circumstance where you go down anyway, at least you keep your self-respect.
Just heard Douglas Hogg on the radio claiming that since his house was unoccupied for long periods, it was "legitimate" to have a cleaner.
How out of touch is he? This is very damaging.
How can these people rule on banking reform when they can't submit an honest expense claim? How can they talk of public sector efficiency when they claim for every penny possible? How can we trust these people to represent us when they live such detached lives?
I don't see myself represented in parliament.
Tell each MP to take out an advert in the local paper and deliver a personal written apology. Failure to do so means de-selection.
Cameron CAN use this to his advantage, but he needs to really crack down. It would put the one eyed fool in a hole.
MPs of both parties have been pouring a bag of manure over the poor bloody taxpayer for years. Now they have been found out, I worry about the future of my country. Who will now fill the political void that these looters have created? The best thing that Dave could do is to wind up the corrupt edifice that is the Conservative Party and start again.
They should not be politians. Get rid of them.
I have a business and I refuse to pay tax from hereon in until they remove these criminals.
Why should they take my money and spend it on moats and swimming pools? No! I refuse.
All the hard work of making the Tory's electable, flushed down the toilet by a few greedy pigs in one day. Sheesh.
The only answer in my eyes is an immediate General Election.
Well these revelations are far worse than I imagined, just shameful. Cameron needs to get tough, insist that money is repaid or withdraw the whip, or we will see that poll lead shrink drastically. And deserve it.
Why not remove the party whip?
Oh I know, there would be so few Conservative MPs left.
Go for it Cameron:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2424448.ece
A large and sharp axe brought down very rapidly on the necks of people who through their own greed do not exactly exude Conservative principles.
This would have a double benefit:
1. Show the public that the Conservatives have changed.
2. Sharpen up the expectations and performance of those we hope will form our next government
Withdraw the whip from them all.
You cannot have one rule for front benchers and one for backbenchers, that would be monstrous.
Those that pay back the monies IN FULL could be saved, but they must not be allowed a seat in the Shadow cabinet. They have forfeited the trust of the people.
Iain, we are talking about adults, not juveniles! We are talking about educated people! They KNEW what they were doing. They knew it was a take on!
They must all be sacked
The Liberal Democrats, by virtue of their numbers in the Commons, cannot suffer as badly as the Tories and Labour! If cameron does not act with great authority then its Prime Minister Clegg!
DC needs to realise that he is now tainted in the same manner as NL
If he does not take strong action he can expect a real kicking in the euro elections, especially if Lib Dems are not seen as equally untrustworthy
The Westminster village just doesn't 'get it' - ordinary people are absolutely hopping mad
Short of pitchforks and lynchings, the only way they have to vent their spleen is the euro and local elections
What should be a Tory triumph will be a huge victory for the smaller parties
If he can't see this he needs to make way for someone else
I have no intention of voting Tory of NL - the current crop of MPs are generally untrustworthy venal self-serving hypocrites
If you have any influence give him a jab in the chest
wv: 'losingo', seems appropriate - a warning?
Yes, public stonings or, perhaps, public pillories.
But Cameron needs to be seen to take rapid and decisive action - and that before Brown or Clegg might do so. It's unlikely that Brown could or would, but Clegg has little to lose and much to gain. The real difficulty is in demonstrating that they are not 'all the same'.
If Cameron fails to take action which appears to redress the balance he will certainly damage his party's prospects. For the good of his party he needs be seen to take a firm grip. It will be a bitter disappointment to many if he does not, and it will certainly undermine the confidence of wavering voters.
He should give them an ultimatum:
Pay back the mis-appropriated funds - or he will withdraw the Whip and effectively deselect them.
It's time to get rid of the Tory Squire-ocracy who think they can live like Lords - paid for by taxpers.
If he doesn't get rid of the Ancrams, Heathcote-Amory's etc voters will NEVER believe that the Tory party is there to represent ordinary working people.
It easy for Cameron to punish MPs. He should withdraw the whip straight away. This should be temporary for arguable cases. For the worst cases he should write the the local associations requesting deselection proceedings. Local associations are best placed to decide whether an MP should stand down as they are more in touch with local opinion and can balance troughing with how much work the MP has done representing them.
Blogger FloTom said...
Best excuse so far. "I only had my pool cleaned once after that I knew how to do it myself I think that is value for money."
Is no one claiming for hand-jobs? (I only had my .. once after that I knew how to do it myself I think that is value for money)
it will be the fact that they are filthy rich that will p*ss the public off more than anything!
Exactly. The headline is basically "Horsey Tories are what we all thought they were all along".
Hazel Blears etc get away with it by looking all hurt and aggrieved and playing themselves up as Robin Hood. But there's no way to spin a helipad. This is much more damaging for the Tories than for Labour.
We should have a general election now so we can kick out the fraudsters on all sides.
We should have a general election now so we can kick out the fraudsters on both sides
Cameron needs to come down hard on all of those seen to be tainted, and needs to err on the side of guilt of the people concerned.
Those who repent, or are later seen to be less of an issue can subsequently be rehabilitated into the fold.
If he avoids any of his inner clique in this, people he owes favours to, or those he is scared of, then he is making a mistake.
This is time for leadership, and it needs to be seen to happen.
Cameron can also ensure that their children, grandchildren and any other relative or in-laws are debarred from representing the Conservative Party. If relatives have been selected, then deselect them. There's an outside chance that these swindlers who care so little for the welfare of their constituents might just have some consideration for the future of their offspring.
And Dave should remember that he holds all the cards and doesn't need to strike any bargains with them.
Desperate Dan
Don't be ridiculous. What is this - visit the sins of the fathers unto the fifth generation? Shall we have some public stonings?
There may be guilt by association if you voluntarily associate with crooks but you cannot be blamed for what one member of your family does.
If you have any useful suggestions as to how our Westmonster can be reformed then OK. Otherwise, hysteria achieves nothing.
Stoning of Tory MP's. All my dreams would come true, along with Newcastle getting relegated, sadly looking unlikely now!
I think Hogg should get immunity for sheer chutzpah, though. You have to have stones of steel to claim for having your moat cleaned.
I'd far rather pay for that than Jacqui Smith's bathplugs or anything, ever, for Gordon Brown.
And I'm not Douglas Hogg.
word verification: buticap. How appropriate...
The country has been raped pillaged and brought to its knees by men and women who have reneged on their duty of care towards our economy, our reputation, our balance of payments, our security, our health, welfare and education. Their time has been almost entirely devoted to pursuing their own ends, lining their pockets and travelling the world in style at our expense. They are heartless hypocrites.
If their families are their achilles heels then that is a route to denting their smug arrogant dishonesty and lack of integrity.
Stone greedy MPs? Surely not? Rotten eggs are hard to come by (but how about reserving a few so that they are in suitable condition for when these MPs come canvassing?) but it seems horse manure is available at public expense, and it is very appropriate ammunition.
Keen gardners following MPs around to scrape up what does not stick will be very photogenic.
'Let him who is without an expense skeleton in his cupboard cast the first stone.'
Am I alone in having a smidgeon of sympathy for the troughers? Thirty years ago my company supplied me with a company car and a credit card to fill it up with petrol. This was tax free, even the petrol used for private mileage. In my case it included an eighty mile return journey to work and Continental holidays. This was all within the Revenue 'rules' of the time and nobody would have accused me of defrauding my employers or the Revenue.
Had I decided to refuse the company car I would have been denying myself a perk worth some £7-8k tax free in today's money.
So, today's Westminster porkers are snuffling around a ridiculous set of 'rules' and making the most of it. Some have been taking the p*ss by, for example, reversing their first and second homes on a frequent basis. I would equate this with my filling up my wife's car in the old days using my company credit card. That would have be fraud. These fraudster porkers should be prosecuted and if this is technically impossible their Parties should deselect them regardless of who they are.
The porker problem originated in the setting of the 'rules' in a way that encouraged troughing - we're all human (well I am anyway). If one wants to point the finger then it should be pointed at the architects of these rules, not the troughers, even if in many cases they are one and the same.
So what's to do? Just as the Revenue changed company car rules, removing the £7-8k tax free perk so the MP's expense rules should be changed. I suggest declaring an amnesty, the scrapping of the current system in its entirety and the appointment of a committee of 'clean' MPs to design a new system.
Much as I disagree with pretty well everything that Dennis Skinner says I have great respect for his integrity. Perhaps he could be chairman of the committee tasked with the drawing up a set of new 'rules'.
Since Skinner's team would only be drawn from 'clean' MPs one would expect that their rules would reflect the sense of public service and asceticism that thess Members have displayed todate.
I'm getting fed up of The Telegraph shrieking "J'accuse!", but when you poke further into the story you find there's very little there.
Michael Gove - is accused of 'flipping' properties in the manner of Alistair Darling or Margaret Moran. Actually all he did was move house.
David Davis - is accused of embellishing his home at the taxpayers expense. Actually he carried out like-for-like replacements of parts of the house that had suffered water damage.
Douglas Hogg - is accused of getting the taxpayer to pay to clean his moat. Actually he only had correspondence where he outlined all the costs he incurred in running the property, which is not what he claimed on expenses. He's been too transparent.
James Gray - is accused of claiming for remembrance wreaths. Actually he only asked a question about it in Parliament in 2003.
David Heathcoat-Amory - is accused of claiming for manure outside of the spirit of the rules. Given that the rules said you could claim for the maintenance of the house and garden, I fail to see how manure (which can only be to maintain the garden) is outside the spirit of those rules.
and so on, and so on...
Did anyone notice that while doing an interview on TV concerning his loss of faith in all three major parties and suggesting that we vote for alternative parties ( Excluding the BNP )in the Euro Elections he appeared to be wearing a UKIP lapel pin.Is he pushing his luck with his Leader who is in vengence mode at present.
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