Following the confirmation of my story yesterday afternoon that Derek Draper has resigned as editor of LabourList, I just want to scribble a few final words on the issue.First of all, let's show a bit of human compassion towards Derek. It's not nice to kick a man when he's down. He's now done the right thing, so let's lay off him. I have never thought of him as a malicious individual. He's made a big mistake and has paid the price. He's apologised to me for what he said about me and as far as I am concerned, that's the end of it. His interview with Victoria Derbyshire on 5 Live just now showed a man who knows exactly the seriousness of what he has done. I hope he gets over this quickly and moves on with the rest of his life, and that he realises he ought to leave politics behind.
A lot has been written about the failings of LabourList. It now has a second chance, and I wish Alex Smith well in getting it right. For what it's worth, I think the site should
- Get a redesign
- Get its own identity
- Separate itself from being seen as a top down tool of UNITE or the Labour Party
- Recognise that blogging is a community and doesn't always have to be partisan
- Be more oriented to Labour's grassroots and less a propaganda tool
- Be completely transparent about its funding
- Enter into debate with other blogs but not trash them
I look forward to some rather more constructive engagement with LabourList than there has been in the past and I'll now be adding a sidebar link to them.
57 comments:
This is a piss take, yes?
One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh at Dolly and the mess he finds himself in.
Did we ever find out who the registrant was for the Red Rag domain name?
His interview with Victoria Derbyshire on 5 Live just now showed a man who knows exactly the seriousness of what he has done. I hope he gets over this quickly and moves on with the rest of his life...Like he did the last time? But he didn't.
The problem is that the rest of his life seems to involve using questionable credentials in order to pose as a therapist.
And that is worse, in my opinion.
Vulnerble people must be protected from people like Derek Draper.
http://thatsnews.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-my-wife-is-annoyed-by-derek-draper.html
Sorry Iain, I disagree.
You seem to have forgotten that he was planning a series of vile smears against innocent people.
You may forgive him but I, and probably many more besides, will not.
Can't say I could quite share your magnanimity and I'm also wondering whether @juryteam are just attention seekers? Has Gordon really gone to the Palace?
Whilst I agree about not kicking a fellar while he is down.
If he is on the dole - he will find out how misguided some of the views/posts under his tenure were with regard to government policy.
I wonder what he will do next?
Only if he ceases and desists in
trying to play any role in or aiding and abbeting the governance of the country.
I think its to late for LabourList.
The damage has been done and it will always be remembered for its negativity and smears, just like the Labour government.
Sorry but the only way for LabourList to earn any credibility and respect again is for them to pull the plug on it. The name has been damaged like its masters in New Labour.
Anyway good luck to Draper, the Lib Dems are always on the look out for undesirables so he might receive a phone call from loopy Nick.
Best enjoyed cold eh Iain
I agree with Iain.
Derek Draper has demonstrated that he has been acting as an odious individual, but let's be honest, as a result of this he has been effectively kicked out of politics and may now also lose his livelihood as a shrink (and yes he did bring all of this on himself).
Draper has been vile - but he has also been exposed and defeated. There is no point in stamping on his head now that he is down and out.
I am far more interested in now exposing and removing the remaining odious creeps working for Brown - namely Watson, Balls and Whelan.
In fact Labour itself should be interested in cleansing itself and removing the disgusting bully boy culture at the middle of the party.
Draper is off limits now - if we continue to kick him, then we are acting no better than Ed balls and the gang.
He said that no one had seen that email except him and Mr McBride - and that no one in the Labour Party knew about it.
Forgive me for being picky but surely Charlie Whelan is a member of the Labour Partah and he was cc'd in too.
Draper speaks with forked-tongue, again.
Nothing to do with a Dale interview at LabourLost then?
BTW I would read Chris Paul`s link. The pounding he hands out to Draper is awesome .....
You obviously didn't read his farewell on LaboursLost, then? He was as contrite as a Labour minister caught troughing.
Up to a point, Lord Copper.
If he really 'disappears', I'm not going to waste any more time thinking about him.
If he re-appears, a la Mandleson, in the middle -- or even at the edge -- of Labour, then we should all pick up where we left off..
This government and the civil service and the police force etc have proven over and over again in my personal experience that if you are a decent, fair citizen of this country then you are good for being taken down in any way they see fit.
Iain, in my opinion, you do yourself great honour in behaving this way, but do not expect the same in return from anyone in any kind of position of authority in this country any more.
Please prepare for the worst.
Iain,
Agree with all you say on Draper, personally
But Labour List - whilst I agree with all your recommendations, you miss the fundamental one. - Shut it down....and let genuine labour bloggers set up something based on the principles you recomend
Because Labour List is a seriously and forever tarnished brand, it is funded by UNITE and is designed using clunky technology precisely because it gives the type of control deamed necessary by Draper - and let us not forget its main funder Charlie Wheelan ( UNITE), And Charlie is of course still Brown's main advisor ( and charlie will also helpfully screen these calls and advice for afar from Damien)
Heard Draper on 5 live, and he was contrite - so lets lay off him personally. But one thing I disticntly recall in his dozen or so plugs for Labour list was him stressing , "its a great site, something I am proud of, a great legacy",
As I said shut it down, Start again, Draper free, Wheelan Free, McBride Free, Brown free. A big ask - but essential
That would be all well and good if anybody believed he was contrite. His whiny "hacking" missive on labourlist really blows that out of the water though.
Can we be sure that he really did understand the seriousness of it all?
I wonder had all this not come to light, would they still be plotting pathetic smears against the opposition?
Dolly has tried to aid the govn which is destroying the country - economically, through immigration...
There should be a serious price to be paid for this treachery.
What is it with you & Guido!?
Why on earth would you want to wish Drapper any luck what so ever?
I believe he would have shoot you both down & burnt your remains if he had his way but he lost, I look at him as a Labour loser & deserved
ALL he got.
I bet if you was in his posittion right now he wouldn't be wishing you & Guido well & would be laughing loudly at you.
Becareful what you wish for!!!!!!
Agree wholeheartedly Iain, well said. It's time to leave the guy alone.
Is Nadine going to "lay off" Derek Draper? Last I heard she had consulted her briefs.
He was part of a plot, a Number Ten plot, to spread vile rumours about the opposition. There are still members of this plot who have either pulled strings to keep themselves out of the limelight, or threatened legal action to silence the MSM.
There has been a concerted effort to promulgate the myth that this was some aberrant act that spiralled out of hand. It isn't. Draper and his henchmen were at the very heart of this rotten government and they deserve to be brought to account. This is not about kicking a man when he is down. He is down because he acted as part of a political act of sabotage, in consultation with the highest in the land.
He deserves punishment and so do the rest of them.
As for Labour list, the idea of supporting this discredited platform for propaganda seems to me incomprehensible.
Most of us play by the rules. Most of us don't even need to be told what the rules are. Only the likes of Draper think they are above them and he should be made an example of.
Being transparent about its funding would probably reveal that it is a UNITE propaganda tool !
Draper deserves all he gets. If he descends into private life then there should be no reason to consider him ever again. If he persists in living a life in public he will get his just desserts.
Lay of D Draper?
yes of course..
Let him go back to the gutter in peace.
Nice and constructive. And forgiving. I like that. Well done!
Iain, I really admire your magnanimity in victory. You put plenty of others to shame.
Danny Finkelstein reckons that Damien McBride is virtually unemployable now.
Good. This man was privileged to serve our country right at the heart of government and he abused this position.
Now I hope he gets a taste of what it is like to be poor in Britain under New Labour.
Don't think Draper is even close to contrite. He's doing his best I suppose, but he is clearly struggling to take full responsibility. He's sorry he received McBride's email but doesn't acknowledge that he ASKED MCBRIDE FOR ATTACK STORIES.
Or that he was PANTS as LL Editor. Or that he shouldn't have gone in/on the Meeja representing LP grassroots. No mandate. Wrong person.
I was at the conference meeting where Draper got it into his head that only he could save LP blogging. He was a ridiculous figure "I don't believe that anyone could possibly disagree with me" was one of his gems. And he famously attacked LH as a potential election loser. Absolutely brilliant!
Delaying his exit by so long has not helped. Arguably smeargate set off a "run of bad luck" and certainly without McBride the press handling has been less steady by far. He was at least good at that.
I hope Derek can resume his career and get on with his life. That his wife will forgive him. And that he will stop thinking there is a strategic communications question to which he is the answer.
Thanks to Newmania for recommending my diatribe. We also have a sneak preview of the cover of McBride's new book. And now there's Perestroika we're looking forward to a link in Iain Dale's sidebar very soon!
And still wondering about the Jury Team Brown to the Palace rumour. is there still a chance of winning that June 2009 bet of mine? It would kill the BNP chances stone dead. Which would be something.
Labourlist is a joke.
It will never be taken seriously after all that has happened. It is a labour/union funded parody of socialist backslapping that slips rapidly into a catatonic state whenever any sensible counter-argument is proffered.
It is a curiously voyeuristic insight into the warped and naive leftie student politicos thinking on all things irrelevant.
It is forever tainted and has become a cyber-circus of freaks and loons such as the former “I’m so important ‘cos I’m a games developer with a touch of faux Tao” caricatures like Charles Hardwidge.
As for Draper and never kicking a man when he’s down – how many times SHOULD you kick a man when he so obviously ruminates in the gutter and can harm the innocent:
One time? Two times? Three times until he gets it?
This isn’t a man that has simply strayed once from the righteous path – he is a serial fraudster and charlatan intent on wilful harm for the sake of a self-centred cause, using the socialist brand as an excuse to execute his vial machinations. He will do anything immoral if he feels he can get away with it. He is a liar, a cheat and portrays the persona of a thoroughly despicable individual.
He is pathologically incapable of knowing right from wrong and after many times in the public arena casting his filth, he should remain forever forgotten in the wilderness.
Jonathan said:-
as a result of this he has been effectively kicked out of politics and may now also lose his livelihood as a shrink (and yes he did bring all of this on himself).Well, I've lost my livelihood thanks to Labour and I didn't bring it on myself by lying, smearing, or falsifying my qualifications.
I don't feel a bit sorry for the evil greasy-haired bastard.
From Once upon a Time on the
Net.Iain Dale is Henry Fonda.
Draper plays Morton.
Watch for the close up of Fonda's faintest of smiles as he lets Morton live, knowing he's not got long to last.
That was Mr Dale today, putting his verbal sixshooter away and letting a very wounded DD crawl off.
"
First of all, let's show a bit of human compassion towards Derek. It's not nice to kick a man when he's down. He's now done the right thing, so let's lay off him. I have never thought of him as a malicious individual. He's made a big mistake and has paid the price. He's apologised to me for what he said about me and as far as I am concerned, that's the end of it. His interview with Victoria Derbyshire on 5 Live just now showed a man who knows exactly the seriousness of what he has done. I hope he gets over this quickly and moves on with the rest of his life, and that he realises he ought to leave politics behind."
As someone who had no hesitation sticking the knife in myself out of concern that decency was being bypassed I agree. Its pointless kicking someone when they are down and while there is sometimes a fine line between wanting justice and being nasty and vindictive, we need to be aware of it!
Iain, I am perplexed that you don't think Draper is a malicious man after the premeditated way he smeared you and the Tories.
I agree with Wrinkled Weasel.
Draper, McBride, Whelan all lead to others! We all believe, hand on heart, that a certain unhinged man was in on this and they are hiding that fact.
Guido is reporting that McBride is 'missing' I think the Labour Party have a history of moving people who could cause embarrasment out of the way!
Draper has lied on far too many occasions to be patted on the back and left alone. He deserves, as does McBride to stand in the dock.
I do hope Nadine takes them all to the High Court and calls Brown as a witness- he would have to be called as an hostile witness- That would be a fitting ending for him!
He will not be able to throw anything at the judge!
Admire your sentiments Iain, But Draper would screw you if he could!
I think you have to draw a distinction between being personally malicious and politically malicious. I think he made a massive error of judgement but it was a politically motivated misjudgement rather than a personal one. Maybe I am being naive.
Iain, you are too forgiving to draper. And I would suggest that it is not for you to show mercy. What he did has impacted on the integrity of politics in this country. He is not fit to be regarded as a member of the UK fellowship, never mind an Englishman. In the olden days, he'd have been shipped off to the outer reaches of the Empire for his mis-deeds. What is the present day equivalent. I'm afraid I don't accept that it is to let him get on with his life in this country as though nothing has happened.
john in cheshire
I never thought for one minute that I'd agree with anything that Chris Paul said.
However, his verbal deconstruction of Draper is eloquent...spot on in fact.
"I look forward to some rather more constructive engagement with LabourList"Well, we can all live in hope, but somehow I doubt that Labourlist is up to the rigours of having its intellectual position scrutinised. And the real difficulty is that there is almost no correlation between what Nu Labour says and what it does, so no matter what stunning revelations there may be on LabourList, what goes on in Whitehall and Downing Street is something else.
Dolly Draper's sorry. Big deal. He's sorry he was caught. He was planning to ruin peoples' lives and reputations for tawdry political gain. He's a rat. Should we kick him when he's down? Hell yes, kick him and keep on kicking him until you can be sure he'll never get up again. I guarantee you, given half a chance he'll be back. Keep kicking.
Bullet point six, Iain. Can you mention that to Paul too? Cheers.
I don't think Draper knows what contrite means, but I agree that if he stays well away from politics he should now be left alone.
I watched him on News24 and whilst he was contrite the impression I got was "I'm sorry I got caught"
No sympathy from me for Draper or any of the people involved.
I wrote to my MP (Labour) about Smeargate and received a letter saying he agreed and there was no place in politics for such behaviour.
Ps. My MP is what I'd call a Hoon
@Aye We Can ! said...
//
But Labour List - whilst I agree with all your recommendations, you miss the fundamental one. - Shut it down....and let genuine labour bloggers set up something based on the principles you recomend
//
What's stopping them? Who is stopping them? No, the problem is that successor blogging in the arena of politics would seem to requite a modicum of intelligence AND a sense of humour.
Both of which the left have shown themselves incapable of expressing.
Maybe they will perk up in opposition, but I doubt it somehow.
Iain,
how can Draper not be personally malicious when the smears he thought were f*cking brilliant included attacking a shadow cabinet members wife?
The problem with people like Draper and a lot of (though certainly not all) socialists is that they are (a) utterly tribal and (b) confuse the political and the personal. By that I mean they think that moral righteousness exists entirely on their side and that anyone who has Tory or right wing views is intrinsically wicked as a person.
Its a very small step to then thinking its morally justifiable to play the man not the ball, which is what New Labour has consistently done.
I genuinely wish I shared your optimism on Labour list. An intellectual revival from the Left can only help to keep the Tories on their toes and led to better governance of the country in the end. Blogs should play a part in that, but I am pessimistic Labour List will ever do so. In the early days I used to go on quite often but found the intellectual content so dire that it became boring shooting it down. I think its continued presence will instead act as a block to other individual blogging initiatives that the left obviously so desperately needs.
...But whats most striking about Labour List is what Sherlock Holmes called the 'dog in the night time' - namely the complete lack of contribution from what I would have thought would be ordinary Labour-inclined people. Instead you seem to get a lot of slightly dippy student activist types. Perhaps then its a metaphor for the fate of the Labour movement overall: what was a movement driven for the betterment of the working man by working men and women has been taken over by a dreamy, disconnected middle class elite totally out of touch with reality.
Thanks for your message of support, Iain. Much appreciated.
Well done Iain. The person who says "let it go" is the bigger for it. Those who continue sneer are the meanest.
Not a great start today - they'd do well not to reappropriate articles from other sites and list their authors as "contributors".
http://twitter.com/AIannucci/status/1728443128
Derek who?
I see that Draper is still in denial about his fall from grace. He is still rabbiting on about his email system being hacked into by an unnamed hacker to get the lowdown on his part in the smeargate thing.
What nonsense.
Draper should have realised by now that there were/are a lot of people out there who are delighted to see him out on his grubby ear for all sorts of reasons, mostly connected with his utterances and their truthfulness. Any of them would have been quite happy to 'shop' him to you know who. The very thought that anyone could be bothered to try and guess his password is fatuous. The man's an idiot and after what he's done deserves a good kicking regardless of whether he's down or not.
Draper is a thoroughly odious man and does not deserve any sympathy whatsoever.
How long before it's Lord Draper of (not at) Berkley?
Mandleson rose from the political dead twice and was enobled...
a cousin taught unarmed fighting techniques.
One of his trick questions to his students was: "When you are in a fight, when should you ask your opponent when he has had enough?"
His answer was "You should never pose that question. Because you should never put your opponent in a potential position of power. You must decide when they have had enough. not them."
I think he would have said of Draper: "Kick him whilst he's down? Yes, please!"
I see that Derek Draper the proprietor of Labourlist has appointed Alex Smith as new editor. as Draper says "I am passing on the editorship..."
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
There are several aspects to this.
For a start, Draper's nature and record shows that he is unlikely to have been sincere in his apology and anything that has followed. His personal behaviour is what enabled him to behave the way he did politically, so one cannot excuse the man on the basis of trying to separate the two. The "Berkeley" business shows that it isn't just in politics where he spins a line…
We also need to send a message to any and all others with similar inclinations, so by all means keep up the pressure while he is still around in the business, or should be assumed to be (it has happened before, after all: he re-appeared after an apparent absence). The same applies to McBride, who seems to have gone into hiding, and anyothers, Whelan included.
Even so: we can soft-pedal to a degree, but be prepared (as a few here have suggested) to release our attack dogs if and as soon as he re-surfaces anywhere in the political arena.
As for LabourLost — well, it is lost and needs to go. It's carrying all that baggage, doesn't work very well anyway, and MUST be supplanted by a genuine, independent (of party and Unions) and properly designed and managed replacement.
There is no future in the existing set-up; and if they are too dim to realise that then they deserve the on-line obscurity that will surely befall them if they don't "get with it" and learn this lesson.
Iain you could also have added noy require you to fill in a voter ID to comment on the threads. Normal blogging requirements an email addy as the minimum (a name at a push which of course can me a pseudonym).
I would also like to add my best wishes to Derek Draper.
Dolly's been such a gift to bloggers like meHe will be missed.
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