I can imagine that both David Cameron and Gordon Brown were rather dreading PMQs today. But I thought all three party leaders caught the mood of the House in their remarks. David Cameron led off by thanking the House, and Gordon Brown in particular, and the thousands of people who have written to him with their condolences. It was dignified and heartfelt without going over the top. His observations that the Prime Minister's condolences were "heartfelt" might just indicate a thawing in their personal relations. That would be a good thing. Nick Clegg was also very gracious in his remarks to David Cameron.
This was never going to be a rumbustuous PMQs. David Cameron asked about the worrying developments in Northern Ireland and then about torture, and the Prime Minister gave eloquent replies. Nick Clegg asked about nuclear arms control and European defence. Gone was the petulence of recent weeks. Perhaps it's his new haircut...
In the circumstances it seems inappropriate to give them marks out of ten...
34 comments:
I hope this thawing doesn't lead to Cameron going easy on Brown. There is a great deal of anger out in the country and Cameron needs to represent it.
Iain your 'frequent reader' is pushing a porn site.
Certainly dignified. But I hope things are back to normal next week.
There is a difference between personal and political opions towards an individual. Some can tell the difference, others, sadly, cannot. As someone who appreciates having personal contacts and friendships across the political divide, whilst not holding back from criticism, I want to see a Conservative leader I respect no matter how much I disagree with their politics. I also like to see mutual respect between a Prime Minister and a Leader of the Opposition. I am hoping like you Iain, that out of this tragedy there will be a thaw in relations between Brown and Cameron, whilst at the same time neither side being immune from criticism
Did you notice Jacquie Smith talking Gordon through his answer and then tutting as if to say, "Christ, I thought he'd never get it out."
A classic moment!
Very cosy. I'm reading Eamonn Butler's book, The Rotten State of Britain, and Cameron, Clegg and any of the rest of the so called opposition should be hanging their heads in shame at their failure to oppose what's been going on in this country.
Instead we get a spirit of renewed co-operation in the cross party conspiracy to shaft the electorate on everything from the EU to taxes and erosion of civil liberties. EU Dave's and Clegg's parties would probably inflict less damage if they just stayed at home and drew their expenses. It's certainly a waste of our money paying them to travel to Westminster and assist New Labour.
Wonderful. So the House of Commons becomes a stage where politicians can publicly display their emotions.
I am with Simon.
This country is in need of Leadership and I am afraid watching David Cameron today, I am very concerned.
I have seen grief of the death of a son, and daughter, take one friend to an early grave through suicide, and another became a total recluse and does not, to this day, reply to any form of correspondence and to call on them is met with a closed door! (and it is not just me)
I have seen many many others get on with life, throw themselves into their job. Grief is always there and memories come back at strange times.
Sadly, I believe that David Cameron has not got time. He has got to show leadership, this rotten government needs kicking all day, every day, and a softly softly manner, as you suggest, Iain, will not please the majority of people out here in the country.
Perhaps, Iain, you are too close and are now part of the Westminster bubble- I would, though, have thought with your many visits to different parts of the Country -Leyton and Wanstead today- you would be able to guauge the anger out here.
So, if the reports are true, that David Cameron has cut many meetings out of his diary, to be with his family. I cannot support him on that. He has to put Country first and he has to come out firing on all guns.
If he cannot, and I would fully understand if that be the case, then he should stand down as party leader.
Dignified, up to the point where Dennis Skinner got up. Then it all went a bit Austin Allegro.
How wonderfully dignified ! Thousands are having the idignity of being thrown out of work and losing their homes and it barely gets a mention
Jezz, some of you sad cases complaining that Cameron didn't tear into Brown today, need to get a grip and remind yourselves that you (yes, you) are the reason that the people of this country loathed the Tory party for so long.
Cameron behaved courteously not just because of the death of his son but because of the Northern Ireland killings. Jumping up and down and prating like public schoolboy does not equate to effective opposition.
Venting anger for the sake of it and engaging in the facile demand for an apology is Jeremy Kyle politics. How is venting anger at the state of the economy in any way constructive? How is it even apposite given that both main parties were advocates of light touch regulation which, so we are told, has contributed to our current predicament.
If today marks a change toward respectful but hotly contested debate then good. If today marks a change toward an honest debate as to what concrete measures will be implemented to get us out of this then good. Actually my suspicion is that in a few weeks time, we will have reverted to the usual routine of Brown refusing to answer the question and Cameron asking questions the answers to which he has no real interest in.
Totally agree p smith, thanks.
The other sad thing is that this kind of spleen venting, whilst understandable, is what turns many people off politics!
strapworld
Come on. It was a fortnight ago.
Hope Cameron has buried the apology forever, though.
I want shorter, hard questions - preferably ones Brown won't be expecting so that he can't simply read from his briefs.
cherami.
I accept that. But there are soldiers now in Afghanistan who lost two colleagues in Ulster at the weekend. I bet one or two were good friends with either. They are getting on with the job.
Likewise soldiers killed in Afghanistan/Iraq- no time for grief there.
Harsh? yes but brutally true and we need a leader today giving Brown and his cabinet a good kicking.
Sorry. but that is my view. The Country cannot have a part time leader of the opposition.
personally I thought it was refreshing to see civilised debate as opposed to the neanderthal tubthumping we normally see.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, GORDON should stick to the statesman-like politics, he is actually not that bad at it.
p smith said... “Jezz, some of you sad cases complaining that Cameron didn't tear into Brown today, need to get a grip and remind yourselves that you (yes, you) are the reason that the people of this country loathed the Tory party for so long.”
Don’t worry. If this lot are anything to go by (and should Cameron get elected) - then it will surely happen again. Underneath all that touchy feelie apparently remains Theresa May’s “nasty party”.
Looks like it may be a one-term government IF Cameron gets elected. Certainly all the prognostications indicate the recession may last the term of the next government - in which case they (whoever they are) are stuffed. The new government will by then have ownership of the recession.
The offensive instincts of backwoods Tory man (and it is mainly men) is alive and well and ready to be just as offensive as always if this (Iain says “unrepresentative”) bunch are anything to go by.
Two forthcoming litmus tests on social issues are hunting with hounds (I heard a senior Tory MP last night insist a “free vote”) and the dreaded and nasty Nadine Dorries’ abortion restrictions (also presumably a free vote). Let’s see how modernized the Tory parliamentary party actually is when push comes to shove.
And I still say that Cameron would never be so stupid as to try and dismantle the BBC whatever the Neanderthals here are forever screaming for.
strapworld
Could not agree more with everything you wrote - just that today was not the right time to give a good kicking, particularly after the murders in Ulster.
Normal service next week?
Oh grow up strapworld.
This week has seen the return of the murdering of soldiers and policemen on the streets of Britain. An attempt to start a new civil war. Its entirely right that PMQs reflects that.
I am fed up of people moaning about the alleged lack of 'opposition' from the Tories.
Osborne made a well received and important speech a few days ago. Well received by some in the dead tree press and some blogs. Did you hear about it on the BBC?
The Tories could go round 'opposing' til they are blue in the face but would the BBC tell us - how many spare minutes do they have on the news anyway.
The Conservatives are opposing and have currently scuppered Brown's original carefully conceived and constructed pre election campaign and seen off two Brown bounces.
I think waiting for Tory opposition is a bit like waiting for a cheque from a company you know is in trouble. You keep getting "cheque's in the post" type statements from them but you know at the bottom of your heart that nothing is ever going to arrive. In the end you give up and write it off.
That's about where we are with the Tories now. We've heard the cheque's in the post bit with half baked "opposition" to various things but know that it's never really going to happen and it's a wate of time hanging on in hope.
Certainly was a strange PMQ's. I think the tone was appropriate but next week things need to get back to business. There is a hell of a lot going on right now.
With Simon, strapworld and others on this.
Iain
Sorry this is o/t but have you seen this particularly impressive picture of yours (although not everyone's) favourite mini-mp, Hazel Blears? I found it rather amusing
http://tory-totty.blogspot.com/2009/03/another-non-surprise-on-draperlist.html
A subdued tone was probably fine for this week, but I hope that normal service is resumed soon!
trevors den, I normally agree with your remarks, but of late your are getting extremely testy!
Grow Up is a rather strange remark to make, just because I voice an opinion I believe in, and that does not slot into your thought processes.
I think in fact I have grown up and you, dear boy, have a long way to go. In future contain yourself from making such juvenile remarks and consider that people can have an opposite opinion to yours.
You mention our terrific troops! Just remember that friends and colleagues -of the murdered lads in Uster- are now in Afghanistan.
No grieving for them!
I know from my own son, who lost a friend in Iraq, how hard he took that loss. That he was unable to attend his friends funeral! He and others had to get on with the job!
So, perhaps, before you spout off again you may give some thought to the other point of view, and accept it as 'democracy'
Yes it was a sombre house of commons but the the news and events has not been of a joyous occasion on any level recently. I think the house struck the right tone and even Nick Clegg asked questions that were worthwhile.
"cherami said...
strapworld
I want shorter, hard questions - preferably ones Brown won't be expecting so that he can't simply read from his briefs.
March 11, 2009 3:20 PM"
Does he wear his pants on the outside now?
Heard Tory defence shadow Patrick Mercer and fopp IX on Radio 5 this morning. He was whining about the Luton protestors, and how the law want tough enough against such protestors... I nearly chocked
His party opposed laws to make it illegal to foster incitement or hatred. And when Gordon Brown announced plans to stage troop passing out parades, the Tories described them as a gimmick.
Furthermore I see self styled guardian of free speech and Tory renegade David Davies and his side kick from Liberty Shami Chakrabarti are conspicuous by their absence during this debate, changed their minds have they !!!!
Strap, it would be a dangerous world if everybody agreed with everyone else all of the time.
The point about the recent murders is precisely WHY today's PMQs was low key. I do not agree with Labours policy of announcing the names of dead just before the confrontation that is PMQs.
You have then launched into a tirade against Cameron based on what? Nothing more than rumour and you know absolutely nothing about what will happen in future.
Cameron has had to cope with a disabled son for 6 years. Tragically he now will probably have more time for politics not less.
My testiness though comes solely from what I see as baseless criticisms about Conservative opposition (like from 'Simon') and I quote a good speech by Osborne, which was ignored, to point out that the perception of lack of action is not really the fault of the Tory party.
On the point of soldiers dying - well this is what we elect governments for - to send our soldiers out, sometimes to die, in the interests of our country. It has previously happened in say Aden, in Kenya and Malaysia.
These are matters of judgement, what is not is when we do not equip our soldiers for their job, do not enlist national support and set vague war aims and unrealistic objectives.
And when we allow ourselves to be taken advantage of by our allies.
These are indeed difficult areas - the world is a difficult, dangerous and complicated place.
And to prolong a too long post ...
Cherami - short questions? Well they have their place
but
Not only would that not get any TV coverage, but Brown would merely turn on the propaganda anyway.
The killer questions are the ones which make labour backbenchers squirm.
Jimbo - I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong but are you not thinking about amendments to the justice bill dealing with religious, disabled and gay matters? I dimly recall opposition to Labours law was that it was badly drafted. And that existing laws were adequate.
Comics lobbying parliament saying that it would stop them telling jokes.
But given the way this govt operates I would be surprised if anyone had been given the opportunity to comment one way or the other.
The fact that these 'demonstrators' are still walking free shows that Labour's laws are not working.
trevors den.
you ignored what I said about grief.
I have witnessed far more than I wish to express and also seen it with both colleagues and strangers in my past life. So I dont want lectures from you.
But it must be nice to look at the world through rose tinted spectacles.
Nuff said.
Sounds like I didn't miss much.
PS Is there an 'ignore' feature on here? I never want to read another post by the person calling itself Simon Gardner, ever again. It's like J. Mulemeister without the charm. Hunting with hounds... FFS.
Quite interesting what Quentin Letts, in The Daily Mail, has to say in his excellent article.
I quote four sentences.
“One hesitates to introduce a querulous note but if everyone has quite finished with the condolences, can we please have a resumption of normal politics? A scribbler with my savoury tooth can only take so much sweetness.
Mr Cameron said that he knew that Gordon Brown's sympathy had been 'straight from the heart and meant a great deal to Samantha and me'.
Once you have said that about someone it is obviously impossible to accuse a man, a few minutes later, of bungling the economy. This was the first time for ages that the banking crisis was not raised by Mr Cameron.
Come on, Commons. That's enough grief. Let the melee resume.”
Strapworld - I did not ignore your comments about grief. But let me say for clarity I sympathise with them.
I pointed out my main testiness with you and others was the constant moan about the conservative opposition - I again point out that Osborne made a good well received speech and was totally ignored. This is my big main complaint and point of difference. Its not as if the Tories can command airtime.
Regarding grief and the death of soldiers I made the point about the duty and burden that govts have and the associated responsibility and duty that comes with it. I believe this govt are failing in the latter.
I do not see that any of this has anything to do with this weeks PMQs. Of course normal service will be resumed but you are wrongly conflating two different events.
First Camerons child. The house made a big point about giving its condolence and so did the Prime Minister.
Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Cameron should just sniff and ignore that? Should Cameron say or pretend 'well thanks but I know you don't mean it you bastard' ?
Huh?
Of course not. Its absolutely right he was courteous.
Second the Irish murders.
It would be appalling if this were not treated very seriously indeed by parliament and likewise it would be wrong, unless the immediate state of the nation were demanding it, to then jump to crude party politics.
The prospect of a return to civil war on Britains streets needs delicate handling I would think.
Thus the House was subdued and treading carefully this week.
In respect of Blair and now Browns litany of dead soldiers names just before PMQs, I can only repeat I think this is the wrong forum and quite disrespectful and to my bigoted mind probably has ulterior motives.
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