I went to the Carlton Club this evening for a drinks party hosted by Liam Fox. I was delighted to see Lady Thatcher arrive and looking absolutely fantastic. For a woman of 83 and supposedly in frail health, she looked absolutely stunning.I had a couple of minutes talking to her and told her it was 26 years to the day that I first met her at a reception for Conservative students at 10 Downing Street. "I think I remember that," she said. "It was so nice to see so many young people in the building. That didn't happen very often." We talked a little about newspapers and she said: "I never read them. I had Bernard to do it for me." Everyone needs a Bernard...
As I left the Carlton Club, a thought struck me. If Lady T were in her heyday and had to take over as Prime Minister now, what would she do? If I had asked her, I know exactly what her reply would have been. "Restore sound money, dear," she would have said. And you know what? She'd have been dead right.
57 comments:
Sounds like an excellent evening Iain.
Simply the best
Better than all the rest
Better than anyone I've never met
I am so jealous. I love Maggie. I have an autographed copy of her book. I wish she were in charge again :(
Polaris, what utter drivel!
Monetarism is about the control of the money supply
Gordon Brown has let the money supply grow out of control
Socialism is just about an elite making everyone underneath them equally poor
She was the one figure more than any other who inspired me to become politically active in the 80s
Fantastic stuff. Nice story.
@ six
Monetarism is a discredit philosophy - brought to us courtesy of the shabby Milton Friedman.
I am not a socialist, but I do know I am not a blind follower of the economics of greed...
Give me one quote where Margaret Thatcher said ''be greedy.''
Polaris - have you heard of the 1970's? I guess we don't need unions now when so many work for the state. I am not a number.
PS - i'm sure this was all Ceasar's fault....
"I think I remember that," she said.
You wish Iain. She can't even remember her own name.
Her actions and policies spoke greed - why would any smart politician use a pejorative term like "be greedy" when through the encouragement of self aggrandisement could achieve the same?
Yes, the only time I can remember seeing Mrs T was in the Brent Cross WH Smith shop in 1993 (?), when she had just released the Downing street years!
It's one of those things you always remember! I did not speak to her though just saw her through the window!
Old Holborn, you really are a revolting piece of scum aren't you. Your mother must be so proud of you.
Iain
My mother is dead, she died in front of my four children as we visited her for half term. She had a stroke and then a heart attack. Unfortunately, she lived in New Radnor, Powys, in the middle of nowhere, so it took the ambulance 40 minutes to get there. I tried to resusitate her for for 40 minutes as my five year old daughter stood in the street at 3am waiting for an ambulance to come
Thank you
I am surprised you show such disrespect for Lady Thatcher then.
And Polaris. your insulting comment has been deleted. Feel free not to return.
Polaris - I think you'll find her legacy has been pissed up against the wall and when we go begging to the IMF then it will be like it never happened at all.
So it lasted for 30 years, whereas New Labour's will last a few lifetimes - result.
Iain, you surprise me. As a follower of you and your blog for some time, and one who has appreciated your tolerance and willingness to engage in debate I am astonished at your reaction. Please do not end up like Labour List or other moderated blogs, that is the end of free speech - you must acknowledge that the breadth of opinions lead to quality debate and ultimately representative resolutions. Unlike you, it would appear, I am willing to be swayed by compelling debate and consideration of "the other point of view". Sigh...
If you really want me to desist from participation in your blog so be it - but bear in mind I am not the only person who may not stand shoulder to shoulder "politically" with you, but still values consideration of your opinions. If only you could reciprocate.
Mrs Thatcher caused untold misery to countless innocent people.
Where do you think Tony Blair learned his craft?
Seriously, I know she is a Tory hero, I know I am posting on a "Tory" blog but I cannot forgive her anymore than I can forgive Tony Blair.
As I said, keep the borders secure, police the streets and I see no further need for politicians. Everything else can be done by local councillors or private companies at half the price.
PS. You can't insult me. For that, you need my permission and I don't give it any more than I give it to a drunken tramp who hurls abuse at me at Waterloo station. Once you learn that (and you have, I can tell), life is so much simpler.
I cant believe the vitriolic crap spewing forth here. OH you say a lot of good things but you have gone way beyond the pale. What your family went through was horrible but to blame Mrs Thatcher is puerile.
She allowed you to succeed and live the lifestyle you often boast about.
I am one of Thatchers children, freed to make a success of my life. I have worked hard and have all the toys, big house with pool and tennis court, Bentley, Yacht and all that crap. I am now in danger of losing it all because of the unbelievable stupidity of this Government.
I wish she were in charge again.
Polaris, your comments were insulting and disrespectful to an 83 year old woman. Disagree with her policies all you like, but I am not providing a platform for such comments as the ones you posted. And I frankly don't care if you don't like it. My blog, my rules.
Mog,
I have certainly not blamed Mrs Thatcher for the death of my mother. Her time was up, as one day, will mine be.
"She allowed you to succeed and live the lifestyle you often boast about."
How very kind of her!
I have succeeded DESPITE her and Tony Blair. Less and less (including yourself) are making that claim.
You get ONE life. Exactly the same as any politician, as it happens, and they end up in exactly the same place as you. Dead. So why are they SO intent on telling you (by law) how to live the one life you get?
OH - seriously man, Thatcher did what had to be done, the unions had screwed us for decades. Blair and Brown just wanted power, no philosophy, no making Britain viable, no thrift, no national interest.
I know you hate them all, and damn right people hate her, but unlike all whatever the hell New Labour is, if she and the Tories hadn't won, we'd have been screwed 22 years ago. Say that about New Labour and you'll be jibbering.
Sure mistakes were made, she didn't hide, sure she had an agenda, but she didn't lie - a mile better than the runts on the make that these losers are.
It's not that I don't like it, I just think you are wrong. But as you say your blog, your rules - sounds like a recipe for intolerance to me. I am sure Mrs Thatcher would approve.
Hey my Grandmother of 93 died last year, I adored her and she was a vitriolic critic of Mrs Thatcher. Her philosophy was that there were no holds barred and that there was only one sure thing in life, death.
Iain Dale, grow a pair...
The worth thing a blogger can do is over promise and under deliver (sic)
It's sad that there appear to be so many numbskulls who do not remember (or understand) what Margaret Thatcher had to do to rescue this country from the appalling mess that Labour had left us in at the end of the '70s.
It wasn't easy to take the decisions that she and her government had to take.
Now, all we have is a Labour government led by a man who is only concerned to save his political skin. He will be found out soon - that's the only bright spot on the horizon.
Dick
I hold ALL of the 646 responsible for EVERYTHING that happens. THEY alone are the ones who can change it.
50 million children starve to death? THEY can change it. I can't. It's their JOB to change it. So if they don't change it, I can only assume they are happy NOT to change it.
1.2 MILLION dead in Iraq. 646 people in the UK allowed that to happen. One MILLION marched past the door of Nr 10 and said NO but still, the 646 went right ahead and caused the death of 1.2 MILLION innocent people.
We've hanged people for less.
I will hold EVERY politician responsible for EVERYTHING that happens, because they are the only ones who can change it. And don't.
(Hey Iain, a bit of debate eh?)
I challenge one Thatcher advocate to prove that without Thatcher they would not have gained the benefits they attribute to her administration without her...
OH - I guess that's fair enough. What I just cannot get my tiny little noggin round, except when dealing with a spoilt 8 year old, is how is it possible to inherit an economy in the black, sit on it for 44 quarters (and gladly take all the adulation - wasn't it caused in America) and not consider, you know, saving and then go begging? I'm astounded.
By throwing money at dance outreach workers, learning mentors, geez - anything that bloody moved in sandals, and actually reduce standards is amazing. It's fantastic.
You're right about their potential but, hell, I'm a cheap date.
Polaris - where's the money gone and why can't kids count?
Thatcher and her blind allegiance to Friedman ensured that the "Masters of the Universe" would eventually implode in a fit of financial onanism. And that schools and education would be judged on KPIs rather than education for the sake of academic betterment.
I so envy you Iain , I would give anything for a moment or two to say hallo the Mrs. T the greatest living Britain , what an honour . I am delighted to hear she is doing well. She is the personification of everything good about this country and little like the T’hatcher’ the BBC subsequently invented . She was responsible for a Liberal period of government and in many ways quite a socially progressive administration as well. She certainly became disillusioned with Europe ( what Conservative could be otherwise ) , I very much doubt she would have taken us out though , and with her whatever she did you would know it was for the country first and last. Her attempts to control the money supply were only eventually successful . A far more traditional Conservative than she seemed , not so very different to David Cameron but in very different circumstances
Where she still inspires animosity is her battle with the Unions . From an economic point of view it was damagingly doctrinal perhaps but politically they had to be beaten . That so much suffering was caused is the fault of the insane lefties , the Scargills and his like. Suppose you had all of history who would you speak to Orwell , CS Lewis Winston Churchill Rudyard Kipling Jane Austen Disraeli The Duke of Wellington and Nelson Chaucer … off the top of my head
Polaris - sounds like a recipe for intolerance to me. I am sure Mrs Thatcher would approve.
Mrs Thatcher was not intolerant and Iain is staggeringly tolerant.
Old Holbourn-PS. You can't insult me. For that, you need my permission
Oh good then I feel free to I mention that you are creepy old fart without the worry of upsetting you
Polaris - Brown retained Thatchers Unions reforms ,he picked up Major`s Independence for the Bank of England ( embroiled in Maastricht) and for three years New Labour stuck to Conservative Spending plans. Frank Field was there to think the unthinkable and reform welfare. Essentially New labour stuck with Thatcherism for that very early period and that Polaris was the only thing it got right .
Since then we have run a deficit every year. Lost control of services and Brown not Thatcher was responsible for the regulatory framework in which our Banks operated . Had we continued with Callaghan the country would now look a bit like Gaza does ( thanks to Hamas ) The dead unburied , the lights never on , the Unions running the country . A bit like another Brown term in fact
Ensured? Does that mean inevitable in victim language? What was going on for the last 11 years?
Surely someone should have designed a system which gave regulatory oversight to a group of people, perhaps nominated and authorized by popular consent? Perhaps these cheeky chappies could have had responsibility for maintaing the household expenditure of people through a system of proportional fiscal mechanisms?
Seriously, these gimps weren't up to the job, they were blinded by wealth and shat themselves whenever they had to rein them in. This wasn't Thatcher, you're taking the piss and you sound like an idiot.
Everything they've touched, everything has been overpriced and under-performing. You sound young and I don't think you know what the 70's was like. Anyway, that's then and now's now.
"Oh good then I feel free to I mention that you are creepy old fart without the worry of upsetting you"
As you mention it, my springer spaniel has just done a creepy old fart. It's enough to make your eyes water. Really. Any more of them and I'm having her put down.
Iain -
I am an advocate of free speach etc. as well, but there's a limit - you know you can block IP addresses with this blogging platform
Polaris @1.31. and others. Erm, no.
Friedman isn't just money supply and free markets. He also requires sound money. Thatcher ran sound money. Brown has run unsound money. The banking failures start with Browns unsound money and end with his deliberate relaxation of the banks centuries old tried, tested and proved capital ratios, which fits right in with his unsound money policies.
Thatcher was never greedy, and never, ever advocated Greed. She advocated personal responsibility, with sound money and living within ones means, and practised that as a PM.
Then, as now, pre 1979 leftyism had created a dependent workforce in non jobs. They were already redundant but just did not know it. These were the inefficient statist employers in all sectors. Each sector suffering endemic producer capture. Unloading them was very painful, as it will be again as this time the lefties have created these same non-jobs in the direct state sector, which again suffer endemic producer capture.
Thatcher transformed the economy from a period when I had to get a doctors note to get a telephone to a time when I had a choice of telephone providers.
Without her liberalisations and supply side low tax reforms we would still be mired in poverty. I am better off because the environment became small business start up friendly. My business grew until 2001. Since when it has atrophied as I have struggled to create and retain profits to reinvest against a fierce assault from a confiscatory tax regime and quasi nationalisation masquerading as 'regulation'. This has prevented me from creating jobs. Wealth creating, private sector jobs.
Ultimately Thatcher made political mistakes, for example the reform of local taxes, in large part I think because she knew that age was against her and much more needed to be done to return freedoms to people.
Under her watch some people took advantage of the new freedoms and betrayed us with their greed, for example Robert Maxwell (a one time labour MP), but this was to be expected as the dismal legacy of totalitarian socialism was washed out of the system and people grew to understand the responsibilities of freedom. (For example I was working in FS in 1990/91 and had spotted in my local area that something fishy was going on with the pension funds of the local company Maxwell had bought - then he 'fell' off his yacht. But crucially people like me were already onto many of the chancers in all sectors and were offering new services to help people with their new wealth and responsibilities). And under Thatchers reforms wealth - for everyone - grew more than at any previous time in history. And before you bang on about redundant miners, please remember that they were already redundant, they were being paid exessive benefits masquerading as wages. But once released those that were at all enegetic were able to find gainful employment in much less unpleasant places than down a mine. Furthermore at least one Welsh pit continued in business, I am told profitably, once it was released from the dead hand of the NCB. (BTW in my time in the NE the NCB was known as No C***s Bothered).
So, Thatcher was a Godsend to us. The tragedy is that Major as her successor was too weak and decent to build on her successes and was usurped by the shabby shallow double act of Blair/Brown.
Blair's legacy from Thatcher is that he achieved the abandonment of Cl4.4 (nationalisation) by Labour. Brown has now demonstrated that the other plank of Labour - tax and spend - also (still?) does not work and her final leagcy will be the destruction of New Labour at the next election when the country also realises the central deceit of leftyism that everyone can have everyone elses cake and eat it.
Thatcher is being proved right, right in front of our eyes.
Sound money?
For those keen on fireworks displays please keep your eye on the sinking Euro. It is falling like a stone and is expected to hit parity with the dollar before too long.
That is if it doesn't explode into dust first as country after country is pushed into sovereign insolvency with their economies locked inside the eurozone.
This is the big story of 2009. America declared itself in trouble in 2008. Europe has so far only tried to hide its troubles. They are far worse than the crisis in the USA.
Of course no one hardly dares mention it, including Maggie who carries some of the blame for Britain's European nightmare. She saw it was all a mistake but too late to reverse the process.
The GBP has fallen a long way and cannot fall much further. The Euro however has hardly started. The resulting crash will be off the Richter Scale.
Maybe Maggie will have the pleasure of seeing the end of the European nightmare before she passes. She could know that Britain's European error was finally over, and when she is ready, finally sleep at ease.
Britain's golden age would be upon us - Boris as PM and things back as they should be.
Thatcher and her -ism are not done yet.
Old Holborn and Polaris - Lady Thatcher is worth 10 billion of you - each.
Two of the most memorable evenings of my life were spent at events where Lady Thatcher attended. She was and is a star and did more for this country than you will ever know. This country was the joke of the world before she took over and I am sick and tired of losers like Old Holborn and Polaris blame her for their miserable little lives. Take responsibility, why don't you? Better yet, take Derek Hatton with you and go play in traffic.
Good for you Iain. I too have huge admiration for the Lady! A reminder of a sadly by-gone time.
"Restore sound money" Another of those meaningless soundbites beloved of the politically illiterate. But then the blessed Margaret was rather adept at those. "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony" was a good one - a year or so before the cities were burning as I recall. Sentimental clpatrap Iain...
She's a human being like the rest of us Iain. get over it.
I'll give her credit where it is due though. She was the last PM I can remember who appeared to have strong views, however forthright and unpleasant to some, wasn't afraid to speak her mind and had some spunk about her.
This is pretty much absent these days.
OH and Iain - I enjoy reading you both (beats working) and in this regard, you're both right.
Iain - Mrs T was a great leader in her day. She took the fight to the unions and to the Argentinians who had the temerity to invade UK sovereign soil (my father was involved in that conflict; he managed to make it back). She also kicked off UK involved in Op GRANBY (Desert Storm to those who don't remember the UK codename for it) - my war.
OH - Mrs T did have some failings; her failure to realise that the party were conspiring against her and that the country were tiring of her is probably the single most defining thing at the end of her premiership but think on this: she took an Labour-bollocksed economy (UK79) and managed to turn it around.
Both - taking the fight TO the unions and TO the troublemakers is something that the 646 seem unable or unwilling to do nowadays. Sometimes, just sometimes, consensus isn't the way forward.
It's astonishing that an 84 year old woman still has the power to drive such passionate debate - that alone must make her extraordinary. Callaghan, Wilson or MacMillan never achieved it.
However, all politicians have feet of clay and in any process for the beatification of the blessed St Margaret (to pinch St John Stevas's phrase)the devil's advocate would have to point out her unintended legacy of the relentless growth of the central State from 1979, so devotedly continued under Labour.
I've met her twice. Somehow I expected her to be seven feet tall, but she wasn't. What was astonishing was the charisma she absolutely radiated.
A State funeral? Yes, I think so.
Polaris, you still haven't provided me a quote, merely your interpretation of her policies. To me, contracting the money supply to kill inflation is the antithesis of promoting greed.
I do pity Old Holborn when he pops his clogs enters through the pearly gates and discovers the truth..that Baronness Thatcher is GOD.
Long may she live. She rescued this country from the cataclysmic governments of Wilson/Callaghan. From the hands of the over mighty trades unions and knocked back communism for good. (till it awaoke within the EU)
Paddy Briggs. "Restore Sound Money" is NOT a soundbite. Sound money is a fundamental responsibility of democratic government. Having monopolised money, democratic governments are duty bound to ensure that the money used as a measure of the wealth created by the citizens it governs is of consistent quality over time and trusted as a medium of exchange and store of value by those citizens and third parties with whom they trade, for example other states.
Unsound money is one of the key failures of Brown, in fact all lefty governments.
Thatcher knew and understood this and the impact that sound money would have on the confidence of citizens to create and preserve wealth. Essentially she believed in private wealth as being a public good. Brown thinks that all wealth is for him to direct as he thinks fit. As it is not his wealth he does not care for it and look after it. Hence he will always tend to unsound money.
Brown is a strutting pygmy in comparison with the stature of Thatcher as a responsible and caring politician.
Iain, like Lady Finchley, I've met Mrs T on a couple of occasions, several years apart and she still remembered our first meeting in 1984 in the Finchley constituency. Amazing woman.
Lola
The reason that "Restore sound money" most assuredly IS a meaningless soundbite is that it will mean vastly different things to different people.
Your little rant is one not very thoughtful or informed response to the phrase. But it is yours and your entitled to it I suppose. But others will interpret the phrase totally differently. So it adds nothing. Therefore it's a waste of time.
I was made redundant 3 times under labour,then Maggie got in.The only person that made me proud to be british,as I then thought of myself.I remember the screams of outrage at the poll tax,now you all pay it as council tax and not a squeak.
The UK needs another Margaret Thatcher, in my honest opinion. Labour are (once again) getting us into the mess, and we're going to need all the help we can get to get out of it. Is David Cameron that man?
Nobody knows. Most people doubted Thatcher would be any good back in 1979. (just going by what I've learnt from looking at history, since I was only born in 1984 myself) But she surprised everyone. If Cameron can do the same, he could go down as one of the best PMs this country has ever seen, like Thatcher has.
Paddy Briggs. Sigh. I do so love the interweb. Postings are read as the reader wants to read them (me to, possibly). I was not ranting. I was explaining.
Thatcher presided over:
2 Recessions
Record Inflation
A rebellion by her own colleagues that resulted in her demise
The destruction of manufacturing industry in the UK forever
The illegal selling off of assets paid for by generations of UK taxpayers
A flawed monetary policy that resulted in record unemployment and no no better stability than her predecessors
Thanks for the explanation Lola - meaningless drivel and soundbites are so compelling when put so well...
Polaris.
Inflation. Look at the graph of inflation over say 1945 to 2008. Yu will see a peak in about 1976/8 and then w.e.f. 1979 and downward trend with a couple of peaks as Thatchers monetarism and sound money policies - with a couple of blips caused by policy errors - drove inflation out of the system to the ultimate benefit of Blair/Brown.
The monetary policies did not cause unemployment. The jobs lost did not exist anyway. They were de facto sinecures. I am prepared to accept that there were missed opportunities to sustain some businesses, but the economic shambles caused by the preceding administrations was so bad that sorting it was always going to create victims.
Priavtisation was not illegal. I have argued that selling us back all the things we already owned a bit bloody cheeky, but getting those businesses and industries out from under the dead hand of bureaucratic state control was vital to getting them efficient.
Manufacturing was not 'totally destroyed (sound bite?) by Thatcher. Manufacturers that could not compete under the disciplines of being properly exposed to the free market failed. Out of that new manufacturers would have availaible labour and resources locked up by statist internvention. Good companies (JCB for example) prospered. Manufacturing dies out because our costs had become higher than competing costs in other countries. And, I accept, that mercantilist policies in other countries (France with Renault for example) provided state aid to their own inneficient manufacturers. A Thatcher failure was therefore the inability to force other countries to accept the competitve and creative disciplines of the free market.
Political issues are political issues. Her ousting by her colleagues is not a judgement on her legacy.
You comment on my use of a sound bite 'sound money', but the phrases you use are the unnsuportable but populist sound bites of anti-thatchers.
To be clear, I am not a Thatcherite, I am not a Tory supporter - they are merely the least worst option. But I find the ranting selective memories of many commentators on the economic legacies of many politicians since 1945 just risible.
wv bender !
I think it is worth making the comparison between Thatcher and Brown. Thatcher inherited an economy in a dire state and disasterous finances. Industry needed drastic reform and re-invigoration and rebalancing. In the recession of the early '80's - a legacy of her predecessors - many manufacturers went bust, many good ones as collateral damage. But, her policies did not cause these losses. Could such reconstruction have been achieved with less pain? Possibly, but the experience of the preceding adminsitrations indicates that such an attempt would have failed by the efforts of vested interests. The businesses that grew out of her reforms are much better and genuinely world class.
On the other hand Brown inherited a golden legacy, which his policies have totally squandered. Compounded by unsound money policies that indicate economic illiteracy on a grand scale. The fall out from this is the destruction of effiecient and good world class businesses, or those that are potentially so and do not need this catastophic recession just as they are developing. Brown will cause the destruction of many many genuine jobs in manufacturing.
You may not like the idea of monetarism (and that is a soundbite) but ensuring that your citizens and their business have a sound currency is a key responsibility of government. The other responsibilities include, defense - in fact security generally, the rule of law, protection of private property.
Brown is an irresponsible spendthift who has destroyed an economy. Thatcher, for all her faults, was a prudent leader who rebuilt the UK's finances.
Brown's policies are immoral. Thatchers were morally defensible.
Old Holborn said: "You get ONE life. Exactly the same as any politician, as it happens, and they end up in exactly the same place as you. Dead. So why are they SO intent on telling you (by law) how to live the one life you get?"
I have to say, this is as good a comment as I've seen today.
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