The Liberal Democrats say Britain must "play its part" in helping close Guantanamo Bay but must be given reassurances by the US.I'd like to know what "reassurances" the US can give any country which takes what are supposedly very dangerous men. The truth is that whatever reassurances they give are not worth the paper they are written on.
To be honest I do not see this as a British problem. Lord Goldsmith, the former Attorney General believes Britain should take some of the detainees as part of an international settlement. I can see why we should indeed take any who hold a British passport, but as for the rest, why should we? This is a problem Made in America and it is for the Americans to sort out. We have quite enough people in this country who are capable of terrorist exploits. We do not need any more.
39 comments:
One thing we must all remember, Guantanamo isn't full of guilty men. There are men and indeed CHILDREN there who have done nothing wrong.
Any British citizens should be, and must be allowed to "come home".
As for non-British citizens, well that's just a joke isn't it? America is a big and prosperous country, so why don't they take them? After all, they brought them to within an inch of their borders, so they can't expect other countries to take them of their hands when their done with them.
The Lib Dems have the best of intentions usually, but they are being stupid on this one. British citizens absolutely, foreign nationals absolutely not.
Obama has a golden opportunity to sort out Guantanamo once and for all when he comes to power. He should immediately release the innocent prisoners held and bring the rest to public trial.
He should also immediately condemn Israel for the persecution of the Palestinians and demand a ceasefire on any terms.
The actions of America and the West in general only add fuel to al-Qaeda as do the Israels do to Hamas.
We will only get peace if tensions are diffused on both sides as they were in Northern Ireland.
Iain is right, it's not a British problem at all. Shame the leader of the opposition is still sitting this one out...
Why should we help out Obamalamadingdong if he's now found out that the election promises he made so foolishly aren't his to keep...?
To hell with him!
"The Lib Dems have the best of intentions usually.."
Yes, and we know what the road to hell is paved with, don't we?
We should take them on if America ratifies the extradition treaty it wrote for us!
Or better still, we should repeal the extradition treaty that Bush wrote for us.
It's all part of the horrible mess that Dubbya got us in to, with Bliar's connivance.
Which, on a bit of a tangent, leads me to ask "Where is Bliar during the present Israel v Palestine crisis?" He is being paid obscene amounts of money as you read this, to sort the mess out, allegedly. What's the betting he's at Sir Cliff's sun-drenched pad?
The BBC cannot find anyone in the entire country who can put up an argument to say why we should NOT take these men. The only people we've heard so far are the self-appointed representatives of the human rights industry.
Iain.
It is on issues such as this very important one, that I despair of David Cameron. Instead of being a leader he says nothing. Waiting until he sees which way the tide is turning!
He must show this Country he has real leadership qualities and, whilst I would wish him to shout out loud and clear that "Guantanamo is Obama's problem not the UK's" I would even have respect for the man if he led from the front and told us 'It is our duty to take some of these people in'
Cameron cannot go on much longer saying and doing nothing. I would hope you and all conservatives would tell him to pull his socks up and start fighting for the United Kingdom.
I have a feeling this could be the issue which sets the tone for the rest of Obama's first term; if he fumbles this one, he could be in trouble. The ChristianRight are just dying to get stuck in on a terrorism issue and this is perfect.
There was an Iraqi on You and Yours today who complained that although he's been given a two bedroomed council house, no-one has yet given him a washing machine or a television.
And he's missing his family so no doubt they'll be over soon.
Strapworld, this is a ridiculous argument. The only reason this has been raised as an issue is because the BBC interviewed Lord Goldsmith. Is David Cameron supposed to comment on every interview the BBC conducts?
I am sure he and William Hague will make their views known. Stop trying to beat them with a non existent stick.
We only have a responsibility to those who hold British Passports. Others should go back to their homelands.
Surely they have families there and want to get back to their lives?
1. Peter @3.29pm. If wishes were horses…..If these are your expectations of Obama, you are in for a rude shock!!
2. Britain should take in some of the detainees because it has been most vociferous in arguing for closure of the prison. Should put up (be part of solution of closing) or shut up.
3. There is an anti-American strand on this ostensibly conservative blog that is quite saddening.
4. Michael Heaver @3.47 PM. What has the Christian Right got to do with this issue? If you do not understand US politics, best to shut up.
I read a report somehwere that Hague did indeed queried the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and they fumbled a reply to the effect that nothing is decided yet.
Most of the Guantanamo residents were picked up in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Muslim enclaves of Africa or by 'rendition' in parts of the world including Europe.
Obama should keep all of them and not shunt a few of them to Europe.
The report also says that Brown govt would like to be in the good books of Obama by bringing in those who do not have any connection with this country. Obama it appears will leave the foreign-related matters such as this to Hillary Clinton and we all know what the relationship of New Labour with Clintons. I am afraid it may be a done deal.
If Brown govt allows them in, it is a kick in the teeth of our soldiers who were atthe receiving ends of imbeciles such as these.
I would expect Cameron and his team to be more visible in media this year No use in fighting verbal battle in the House of Commons. I would like to see that Shadow Home Secretary to be more proactive and not react to news items. He should learn from David Davies who was harassing every home secretary. Cameron will lose the momentum if he and his team will simply react. They should set agenda , particularly in respect of economy and immigration. Otherwise, come May, Brown will look like a statesman when he hobnobs with world leaders in G20 summit, blaming the world economy (implying not his fault)and photos with Obama. Cameron will look like a lightweight politico. In 1996 Blair was all over the place criticising Major. Visibility is the key.
Apologies for the typo in the first sentence.
"If Brown govt allows them in, it is a kick in the teeth of our soldiers who were atthe receiving ends of imbeciles such as these."
Not to mention a kick in the teeth to the Gurkhas, whom this government has so shamelessly tried to cheat of their rights...
I say we bring over all Gurkhas and families who want to come, then tell Obama 'Sorry, old boy, but there's limited room and we prefer to take in people we owe a debt to instead...'
Those whom the Gods wish to destroy.....etc.
I've said as much on my liitle blog.
We have to be insane to even contemplate taking any of these people and, of course providing them with housing and benefits.
Will no one rid us of the maniacs?
CNN says that Australia is asked again by Dubya to take a few inmates and is considering the response. It appears that Australia declined a request in early 2008.
It is not anti-Americanism say no to Obama and to ask him why he can't shut Guantanamo and settle these inmates say in parts of Miami where expatriate Cubans are roaming in the streets carrying heavy artillery. That should keep them quiet.
It will be a very serious issue here if these inmates with no connection to Britain are invited, bring their relatives, get housed in smillion pound mansion (like one in Ealing and another in NottingHill Gate as the Evening Standard reports) collecting tens of thousands worth benefits. Knowing Brown and Blair who may suggest ( perhaps have already suggested) this to Brown to ease his money-spinning lecture circuit activities in USA.
Blair is saying the world should help Obama, an euphemism for this?
It is not American public opinion that is pining for closing Guantanamo. It is European and British. Americans can happily live with it for a while. Concomitantly, Americans will NOT accept re-settlement for any of these detainees...thus their willingness to live with it. Therefore, if it is so important for Brits to close the darn place, then pony up space to take them. Quite simple really...
The entire Guantanamo issue proves that it is extremely unwise to take enemy combatants prisoner. They should have been shot on the spot!
Iain
"We have quite enough people in this country who are capable of terrorist exploits. We do not need any more."
Any evidence of these people being involved in 'terrorist exploits'?
@ HM Stanley
"There is an anti-American strand on this ostensibly conservative blog that is quite saddening."
Then:
"If you do not understand US politics, best to shut up."
Then:
"Therefore, if it is so important for Brits to close the darn place, then pony up space to take them. Quite simple really..."
Do you suppose that is why? Is it possible that the 'Brits' might object to American Attitudes?
Unsworth @ 9.02:
Brits...YES/MAYBE.
Clear-eyed, realistic, anti-federal-Europe Conservative Brits with an inkling about fighting War on Terror and due respect for decisions and collective sentiments of other sovereign nations....NO.
@ HM Stanley
Just so long as they conform to your own particular biases, then?
Woo Hoo! Yes, indeedy.
Unsworth:
Whose talking about biases? I am not in favor of much that is going on at Guantanamo. What I object to, as a moderate conservative, is people indulging their little bleeding selves and then expect to externalize the costs of their consciences on others. Simple.
HM Stanley
"people indulging their little bleeding selves and then expect to externalize the costs of their consciences on others."
Is this English?
And what is a 'moderate conservative' - in your considered view?
Unsworth:
Get an economics textbook and bone up on public goods, externalities, etc. As usual...lose argument...revert to abuse and red-herringed subterfuge....
HM Stanley
This is an argument?. Heavens! What happened to 'moderate', then? I'm still struggling with 'little bleeding selves'. Is this some sort of reference to a hospital casualty department, or self-harm, perhaps?
100% agree with Iain. If any of the prisoners hold British passports then yes take them back but for the ones who don't, then let the USA sort it out. There mess, nuff said..
Oh yeah? all of a sudden Tony Blair has nothing to do with the problem? What did the Labour government do to stop this? Nothing. They approved. I'm afraid you have Tony Blair and Gordon Brown to thank for the UK's new problem. However, the sooner Gitmo closes - the better.
Oh yes, John, innocent children in Gitmo. They were just hanging around Pakistan etc doing nothing at all and Big Bad America just threw them in the pokey. Pull the other one. Of course America's big mistake was not to put them on trial a.s.a.p. - as a result they have lost the moral high ground.
Why the hell should we take any of them? Give quarter (and our taxes) to even more Islamists who will want to foist their backward way of life on us and blow us up if we object? I don't think so. Tell Lord Goldsmith if he likes them so much he should take them into his family home.
Iain said: "To be honest I do not see this as a British problem"
Apart from the fact that G.W. locked up Taliban fighters armed and ready to kill British soldiers or terrorists who would have been perfectly happy to strap exlosives to themselves and wander the sreets of London. We owe G.W. a huge debt.
Any suggestions are to where they might be put? We’ll start the bidding at Tony Blair’s numerous houses.
JuliaM said...
I say we bring over all Gurkhas and families who want to come, then tell Obama 'Sorry, old boy, but there's limited room and we prefer to take in people we owe a debt to instead...'
January 02, 2009 7:13 PM
Well said Julia.
I second that.
The Americans should just leave the doors open and let the residents escape across the border of their own accord.
Send them all back to their country of origin. If that country believes them to be terrorists or criminals it has the option of charging them and putting them in front of a court.
What might be interesting is say a citizen of Pakistan being declared innocent by a Pakistani court then sueing America for wrongful arrest and false imprisonment.
The Penguin
If the soon to be ex detainees are ok to live in the UK, they can live in the US. It is a big place.
Actually, Twig and JuliaM, it would be even better if we could swap Gurkhas for muslims already here who would prefer to live somewhere else.
They aren't British/UK nationals are they? Even the 2 that the governments bleats about are only residents, not citizens. Why should we help out Obama? To hell with him and those at Gitmo.
"One thing we must all remember, Guantanamo isn't full of guilty men. There are men and indeed CHILDREN there who have done nothing wrong."
BS
the reason why no one wants these gitmo left-overs is because they are dangerous.
the real question here is why is America asking all these countries to be involved? Could it be so that if a number of countries around the world take a few detainees each that the Bush revisionists can claim that Guantanamo was really our collective fault and not just the US?
So when collective responsibility is denied they will just say - "well if that is the case then how come your country took some of the detainees?". The fact that there might be several alternative and legitimate answers to that question will be lost and the seeds of doubt will have been sown.
Post a Comment