Friday, August 29, 2008

Sarah Palin Open Thread

I'm on my way to London at the moment and have just heard the news that John McCain has selected Alaska Governor as his Vice Presidential choice. That should grab the headlines back from the Democrats!

Anyway, what do people know of Sarah Palin? Will she help attract former Hillary supporting Democrats? What will the Republican Party make of her selection? What's her record like in Alaska?

Discuss.

138 comments:

Andy C said...

It's a disaster for McCain.

1. It destroys the central theme of his campaign that Obama isn't ready/hasn't enough experience.

2. Biden will REAM her in the VP debates.

3. She brings nothing to the table in terms of an extra state that McCain might need. Alaska is not going to vote Dem in a million years.

4. America might struggle to elect a black man, but they're not going to vote for a woman either.

5. Her husband is an eskimo. True story.

Ryan Witchell said...

Hi Ian. Palin has Governor approval ratings in the 90's! She's an economic conservative and social conservative so that will please the GOP establishment. Its a clever move from McCain which has robbed the lime light from the democrats. Palin is an unknown outsider, which is a great benefit to the republican ticket.

Cranmer said...

His Grace offers this analysis, for he is rapturous.

McCain will now be victorious.

Andrew Ian Dodge said...

What the hell is Andy C on about? Palin is an excellent choice which will firm up the conservative base (of all ilks) and will attract disenchanted female Clinton voters. She is the right choice and I am glad McCain had the courage to pick her.

Anonymous said...

1) Executive experience
2) Youth
3) Good looks
4) 'Hockey mom'
5) Son off to Iraq
6) 'Pro-life'
7) Pro off-shore drilling
8) Reformed a corrupt political system in Alaska
9) Went against the Republican party in Alaska - another maverick
10) Female

In short, she really IS change America can believe in!

Anonymous said...

Andy c, you plonker

1) She has more executive experience than Barry O - if she isn't ready, neither is he. Anyway, they have already successfully tagged Barry as a neophyte.

2) Yes - "aging beltway insider lays the smack down on small town beauty queen young enough to be his daughter" is going to go down great. Removes Biden's sole raison d'etre - as an attack dog.

3) VP's bringing their home state has diminished in importance - she does however help in blue-collar states like Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania.

4) The 24% of undecided women voters and disgruntled Clintonistas might.

5) He is also a commercial fisherman who races snowmobiles for fun - blue collar again.

All in all, an inspired pick.

Andy C said...

Before Palin’s election in December 2006 as the state’s first woman governor, she served terms on the city council of Wasilla, Alaska (population 6,700), and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla.

Real executive experience.

Brilliant choice, I bet Axelrod is breaking open the champagne.

And yeah, it's really stolen the headlines from Obama this morning...well, in a what da f***?? kind of way.

Boggo said...

Just a very old hearbeat away?

Pro Life and Pro Guns (an odd combination) but do they really want the first woman President to happen by chance?

norman said...

Palin appears to be an unknown unknown! Husband is rich and McCain has done a Walter Mondale. Geraldine Ferraro whom Mondale picked had similar rich husband whose background was unpicked by snooping journalists and from then on she was downhill all the way. Suffered what was termed 'exhaustion'.

Palin seems to have not much of experience at political level, her 'shooting' interest would please the gun lobby. Has a history of some controversy which and her husband should be interesting fodder for journalists. Picking her,McCain advertises his dependence on Bush's followers.

canvas said...

Considering McCain's old age and serious health issues it is a very poor choice - and it completely destroys McCain's main argument against Obama (which is lack of experience).

Palin (44)was sworn in December 2006. That makes her one of the least experienced people to run for VP in recent memory.

Also, Alaska is one of the smallest states in the US. Population of only 670,000 residents.

Looks like McCain just gifted the election to Obama/Biden.

Although my money has always been an Obama landslide anyway.

It's dumb to assume that Clinton supporters would vote McCain/Palin simply because of a VP's gender. It's actually the issues that matter and most intelligent people realise that.

Anonymous said...

Just what the modern GOP needs - a creationist! McCain has utterly kow-towed to the religious right. Two years ago she was the mayor of 7000 people and now could be a heartbeat away from the presidency with McCain a 72 year old who is not in good shape. And he has grossly misjudged the tiny number of disgruntled female Clinton supporters who are completely at odds with everything Palin stands for. Palin completely contradicts all of McCain's talking points to independents especially that Palin is vehemently anti-green.

Splashitallover said...

is she related to michael palin? she must be, somewhere along the line. plenty of lumberjacks in alaska!!

Andy C said...

She's also being investigated by the State Senate for using her position to fire her ex-brother in law from the police. (Verdict is expected in November)

Not saying for one second that there's anything in it, but doesn't look like a smart decision.

Anonymous said...

Pat Buchanan just called it the biggest political risk in history. You betcha.

July 31st WSJ - The state legislature this week voted to hire an independent investigator to see whether Ms. Palin abused her office by trying to get her former brother-in-law fired from his job as an Alaska state trooper.

Definitely a Republican then.

Andrew Ian Dodge said...

Pro-Fisherman who is an Inuit and a successful snowmobile racer.

Anonymous said...

canvas.

I hope you haven't put to much money down.

Andy C said...

"Pro-Fisherman who is an Inuit and a successful snowmobile racer".

Yep, that should bring in the undecideds then.

Let me tell you - I have been in Alaska and the North West in the last month, and people don't give a crap about this blue collar stuff. They care about their sons and daughters who are being bought home in body bags every day.

Anonymous said...

This is hilarious. When Obama picked Biden everyone could see he was at least VP material, a heavyweight and ready to take over if the worst happened. Palin is a joke. She and McCain will be laughed at and ridiculed for the next two months. If there's one single event to give the election to Obama then this is probably it.

Ross said...

Anon at 4:24 nails it.

Palin is a fantastic choice, she may only have 2 years experience as a chief executive but that is still two more years than Obama and Biden combined.

Look at her record of tackiling the corruption and nepotism in her own party and then look at Obama's links with Tony Rezko or his wife's monster salary increase after he earmarked federal funds for her employer. This election could come down to ethics.

The only downside is that Alaska is a small (population wise) red state rather than a large swing state.

Anonymous said...

She's Kelly Ripa to McCain's Regis Philbin.

Anonymous said...

I remember four years ago on the BBC election night special. They were confident that Kerry had edged it, until the actual votes started to come in. And where did those votes come from that swung it for Bush? Exactly the sort of constituency that Sarah Palin represents. It's a good move. Expect to see glum faces at the BBC again in November.

Anonymous said...

Interesting to note that not 3 weeks ago she put out a press release praising Obama's energy plan. Off message already. Happy days.

Anonymous said...

A bit like Biden saying Obama wasn't experienced enough then, so one all.

Anonymous said...

McCain has seriously misjudged Clinton supporters. They are loyal and devoted and they really only want Hillary Clinton. But when it comes down to it they are Democrats and they hold Democratic policy positions. Not in a million years will Palin shift them. And don't forget most of these disgruntled Hillary supporters are older ladies and will see Palin - a young attractive woman picked - while passing over a host of older, more qualified women from the GOP. This will really p* them off.

JP said...

She has a reputation for being a formidable debater, so far from being destroyed by Biden, I expect her to win a points victory in that one.

Picking her means McCain has doubled up as a maverick/outsider. She'll energise the conservative base and bring in the churchgoers. She has solid experience (and considerable popularity) as a governor, plus expertise on oil and environmental issues. She'll bring in the moms - and the dads!

I think this really could be a game-changing move by McCain. See how the narrative moves over the weekend, but my hunch is this could be what wins it for the Republicans.

keith said...

I think it's a bit simplistic to assume that they're going for the Clinton vote with this choice. They're going with the blue collar vote in general, that swung it for Bush.

Geoff said...

Brilliant pick...I thought he'd play safe with Gov Pawlenty. She presses all of the right buttons in terms of executive experience (more than Osama bin Biden combined), intelligence and media presence.

"Palin 2016" may well be the bumper stickers. She's young and clever enough to go the whole way.

McCain has, as they say in the US, hit a home run.

norman said...

Anonymous said:

"remember four years ago on the BBC election night special. They were confident that Kerry had edged it, until the actual votes started to come in. And where did those votes come from that swung it for Bush? Exactly the sort of constituency that Sarah Palin represents"

Good point. The religious right, gun lobby, anti-abortion diehards in Ohio did it for Bush. Agree that Palin represents that constituency. But the argument of Republicans about Palin's selection is partly to attract Hillary's women voters who are liberal, pro-choice, anti-gun and do not like the Bible-carrying gang who bash gays and minorities, the precise gang that follow Palin. Not also sure what the position of the blue collar whites who detest blacks. Most of them are hit hard by gas price and downsizing. Interesting to watch.

Anonymous said...

This choice just tells me that there must have been a long list of Republicans who turned McCain down. :-)

canvas said...

Iain, did you know that Sarah Palin is opposed to same-sex marriage.

She also said she would support a ballot question that would deny benefits to homosexuals.

Is that something you approve of?

McCain has really blown it this time. A token gesture gone badly wrong.

The Head Hitter said...

I knew it - honestly I did! I'm over the moon, and I think it helps seal the deal for McCain with the many die-hard Clintonians who favoured him, but might since the DNC show of unity have been wavering back to Obama.

They will win.

David said...

Odd choice.

Ignoring the silly arguments it doesn't address McCain's immediate problems.

It could work, but chances are it won't.

Londoner said...

Geoff says:
"She's young and clever enough to go the whole way." But I thought she's an evangelical with 5 children and a husband with a gun. However attractive, going all the way doesn't seem wise.

But I really came on here to note what a polite lot you are. No-one at all gloating at the accuracy of Iain's firm prediction a few days ago. Mitt, where art thou now?! Did Iain overhear someone saying that it was going to be someone attractive with a great body, and he forgot where he was?

Anonymous said...

If anything this choice will have galvanised Hillary Clinton and her supporters to get Obama elected. They don't want a GOP female becoming VP they only want Hillary. McCain has single handedly galvanised the alliance between the Obama and Clinton camps.

Sandy Jamieson said...

Reading about her last month, I read somewhere that she was pregnant?
Can this be checked?

Anonymous said...

Hopefully this is the death knell for the Republicans and Rambo McCain. But unfortunately it could be a master stroke and she might just be their saviour.

Anonymous said...

canvas.

"Iain, did you know that Sarah Palin is opposed to same-sex marriage.

She also said she would support a ballot question that would deny benefits to homosexuals."

Should go down well in certain parts of the States then. This is politics, not a student union debate.

Anonymous said...

watching the announcement is bizarre. It's like selecting a VP blind date style. Have they ever even met before?

Iain Dale said...

Canvas, I had barely heard of Sarah Palin until an hour or two ago.

One thing I will say is that I do not judge any politician on a single issue. If what you say is true it's hardly likely to endear her to me, as you would expect!

Andy said...

Guys, I think we're missing the key issue here...

Would ya? Well, would ya?

I can't say I would..

Malcolm Redfellow said...

* Governor Palin's sole national recognition is an award from the National Arbor Day Foundation.

* Oh, and Sarah Heath (as she then was) was runner-up in the "Miss Alaska" beauty pageant.

* She raised sales tax to fund a recreation center in her home town.

* She doesn't think polar bears should be an endangered species. This might have something to do with her links to the oil industry: oil men don't like sharing the tundra with the local wild-life.

* She used her power as Governor to sack her ex-brother-in-law from the State troopers (see below for more).

* She is currently under investigation for improper use of her authority.

That last bit needs a bit of expansion:

* It seems that the Alaska public-safety commissioner, one Walt Monegan, was none too quick to accede to the governor's behest that the ex-brother-in-law, Mike Wooten, was defenestrated.

* It took more than a score of calls from Governor Palin and/or her unelected husband before the end was achieved. The Palins were shrill in denying any involvement until the tape of one such call emerged.

* There have been some questions about Mr Wooten's own character; and his custody battle with Governor Palin's younger sister, Molly, appears somewhat bitter.

* Another view of that is most of the complaints (some 25 of them) against Trooper Wooten were lodged by the Palin and Heath families, strangely coincidental with custody hearings.

* All the complaints were investigated, and dismissed -- except one. Wooten admitted shooting a moose without a permit. The moose was then butchered by Governor Palin's father, and the meat shared among the Palins, including Governor Palin herself.

* Result: Mr Monegan found himself out of a job, and replaced by the former police chief of Kenai (pop. 7,400), the excellently-named Chuck Kopp. Monegan, by yet another coincidence, is a long-time acquaintance of the Palins. Small and intimate place, Alaska: only some 656,424 square miles.

* Unfortunately Kopp had been on the receiving end of sexual harassment allegations. Kopp then claimed he had not received a letter of reprimand for this behaviour, but "a letter of instruction for future dealings with employees.”

* Result: Governor Palin did not submit Kopp's name for approval by the Alaska Legislature. She had swiftly dispensed with him, too.

Not for nothing was the lady's College moniker "Sarah Barracuda", gained from her basketball prowess. She has lost little of her bite.

Doubtless there will be considerable back-slapping among the Republicans of Alaska.

The Democrats returning to their bases from Denver's Convention may well be quite chuffed, too.

Now, where did I read all of that?

Oh yes: it's just gone up at Malcolm Redfellow's World Service.

canvas said...

Iain, I know you don't judge any politicians on a single issue. Absolutely.

I'm watching the speech now and it's pretty scary. She has an awful voice and McCain looks nervous as hell.

Can't see this working out too well.

Mostly Ordinary said...

Are people really dumb enough to switch their vote from a women who didn't get nominated to one who got pick just because she is a women?

I also love the experience point, because virtually every political leader had no relevant experience when they got into office. Thatcher had none, Blair had none, Reagan had none, Bush(s) had none.

I couldn't care less who wins in the US I hardly think they'll be that different to be honest. But what does strike me the more I see Obama the more I think about Cameron. I can't help thinking that any weaknesses Obama gets nailed with in terms of experience etc will rub off on him.

Anonymous said...

That's a hot ticket.

Yak40 said...

Pro Life and Pro Guns (an odd combination)

Maybe, in the UK, but not here.

Palin wasn't picked to attract Hillary fans tho' she might get a few of them. She's got a good record, is a bit of an outsider, which doesn't hurt, and appears to be a "real" person, not some graduate of machine politics like Obama.

Once again the Republicans provide action in putting a woman on the ticket, just like Bush appointing many African-Americans to high office, in sharp contrast to the Democrats' actual record of treating blacks like a guaranteed voting bloc for the most part.

It's going to be fun !

Anonymous said...

This is a fantastic day for women.

She is a married 44 year old mother of five. Eldest son in the military, youngest child is a downs baby, she gave birth whilst IN OFFICE and returned to work after 2 weeks. Pro life, Pro gun, She has energy experience and has vowed to tackle corruption. This is WOW! Biden was brought in by Obama as an attack dog but they need to be careful as they cannot be seen to be attacking or bringing down a woman, especially after the whole Clinton thing.

Anonymous said...

canvas.
"She has an awful voice...."

I'm sure that's going to be way up the agenda when people come to vote.
Anyway, don't most American women have dodgy voices?

africanmum said...

McCain has played a blinder. Middle America would go for her big time. I predict she'll be America's 1st female president and would do quite well. I predicted she'd be the veep choice. I'm also standing by my 1st female POTUS prediction.
The Dems need to be careful though - they shouldn't speak down to her or appear to mock her small town status. That'd seriously backfire, as many voters would think Obama is talking down to small town America and middle America (ie, the majority of voters).

Iain Dale said...

Canvas, it seems you have misled me. This is from Mrs Palin's Wikipedia entry...

"She opposes same-sex marriage, but she has stated that she has gay friends and is receptive to gay and lesbian concerns about discrimination.[10] While the previous administration did not implement same-sex benefits, Palin complied with an Alaskan state Supreme Court order and signed them into law.[31] She disagreed with the Supreme Court ruling[32] and supported a democratic advisory vote from the public on whether there should be a constitutional amendment on the matter.[33] Alaska was one of the first U.S. states to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage, in 1998, along with Hawaii.[34] Palin has stated that she supported the 1998 constitutional amendment.[10]

Palin's first veto was used to block legislation that would have barred the state from granting benefits to the partners of gay state employees. In effect, her veto granted State of Alaska benefits to same-sex couples. The veto occurred after Palin consulted with Alaska's attorney general on the constitutionality of the legislation.[32]"

She is rather more liberal on this issue than you give her credit for. In fact it's a similar position to Obama. He too is against gay marriage, from what I understand.

canvas said...

Anon, a politicians speaking voice is actually hugely important. If you feel great pain listening to someone speak then chances are you miss the message.

canvas said...

iain, please don't just use Wikipedia as your source! crikey. do some homework.

Obama says: "On same-sex marriages

I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination."

george said...

most ordinary.

"Are people really dumb enough to switch their vote from a women who didn't get nominated to one who got picked just because she is a women?"

Er...we're talking about America here?

africanmum said...

If canvas' reaction to Palin is typical of Democrat supporters, then they've already lost. Women won't be too keen to vote for a candidate whose supporters seem to be condescending to women.

Iain Dale said...

I just deleted an anonymous comment due to the F word being used.

Canvas, I have clearly done more research than you on her views on this issue. All the Wikipedia comments are sourced. Unlike your own assertions.

D Thomson said...

All in all sounds like a good choice. Certainly has a lot of qualities that'll back up the McCain campaign.

Also - she was in Vogue! and here's her picture. Splendid.

Anonymous said...

canvas.

My point is that her voice may not sound so horrific to a native American, especially a female native American. Geddit?

Yak40 said...

africanmum:
An Obambi spokesperson has already sneered at Palin's small town origins, that'll really go over well in "flyover country" won't it ?

Pretty good summary here in the Mail, of all places.

john miller said...

Michael's wife...

Around the world in 90 days , nudge, nudge, know what I mean...

Anonymous said...

d.thompson.

Yeah, she's alright in a, "let your hair down and take your glasses off Miss jones" sort of way.

About a five pinter I would guess.

Anonymous said...

re Iain Dale @ 6.09 p.m.
I don't know what was said but can I describe her as a MILF?

Andy C said...

anonymous - no you cannot. She's a 'GILF'.

(Hat tip - Wonkette).

Anonymous said...

Another gun wielding reactionary for the bible bashers to rave over. God I hate the GOP.

I was wavering on McCain v Obama. I was thinking McCain may not be so bad. However having read a bit more about Palin, I am praying for Obama to win.

David Lindsay said...

This one could turn really interesting.

Is the Governor of a state so wedded to the "free" market that it pays people public money just to live there nevertheless a good Republican merely because she is notionally against abortion (not that it will make any difference)?

And while the radical feminist Clinton supporters might balk at a pro-lifer, the far more numerous rural blue-collar whites who preferred Hillary to that guy with the foreign-sounding name probably or certainly never did agree with her about abortion.

A morally conservative believer in big government projects for the common good is right up their street - Main Street, USA.

And after all, the economic things might actually happen. The Republican Party will never commit electoral suicide by delivering on abortion and then waking up to wonder where all its Catholic and white Evangelical supporters went. Home to the Democratic Party, that's where. Mission Accomplished.

But still don't vote for McCain. He won't stop abortion. He won't do populist things economically, not these days.

However, he will do whatever Robert Kagan tells him to do abroad.

Bomb it.

Cole NY said...

A good move by McCain and one which steals the headlines in a dramatic fashion. Combined with McCain's congratulatory ad last night, it makes McCain seem more empathetic.

A lack of experience as a line of attack against Palin doesn't really work because of Obama's not been around much longer and plus Palin is a governor i.e. actually runs something.

Environmentalism may become more of an issue as she is for off-shore drilling in her backyard Alaska.

McCains done an amazing job of turning his campaign around.

Mostly Ordinary said...

africanmum said..
The Dems need to be careful though - they shouldn't speak down to her or appear to mock her small town status

Won't they just wheel Hillary out to stick the boot in?

Insy said...

It seemed that many women switched to active support of Hillary after the barrage of sexist comments in the MSM. It will be interesting to see whether the treatment of Sarah Palin has a similar effect -- much of the press reaction seems to have started along similar lines. There really is no comparison with the reporting on Biden.

Sarah Palin's anti-abortion stance may discourage many liberal Hillary supporters from actively supporting her. I suspect that, however, many women will become disillusioned with what the political process is offering their half of the nation. In the short term I expect them to stay away from the polls. Maybe in the longer term more women will stand as candidates , or maybe they will just become more disruptive of a system that (they have been reminded) really is stacked against them.

Barry F said...

'Let me tell you - I have been in Alaska and the North West in the last month, and people don't give a crap about this blue collar stuff. They care about their sons and daughters who are being bought home in body bags every day.'

Sarah Palins son enlisted in the army. Not only is she a soccer mom but shes also a Military Mom.

Biden will barely be able to say a word against her.

And her lack of experience? Sarah Palin is the ONLY one on any ticket (including McCain!) who has ANY executive experience. She is the ONLY one who has ran any kind Government.

She will be the next Vice President, and quite possibly President of the United States.

strapworld said...

andy c.

leaving out 5, which is racist! You are talking a load of absolute rubbish.

1. She has a 90% approval rating in Alaska.

2. She is PRO-LIFE which will gather all the pro life votes throughout the USA! and strengthen McCain's position.

3.Apparantly, from my friends who know her in the USA she is a ferocious debater! which rather blows your number 2 out of the water!

as for 4. Where were you when Hilary Clinton got all her votes?
many of those will now support the McCain and Palin ticket.

I just get the opinion that you are employed by Brown in his bunker as such rubbish and racist statements normally come from that area!

grow up!

canvas said...

"In 1984, Ms Palin came second in the Miss Alaska beauty pageant after winning the Miss Wasilla contest earlier that year, winning a scholarship to help pay her way through college. She also won the Miss Congeniality award.

She has a journalism degree from the University of Idaho, where she also minored in politics."


>>>Well, it's not exactly President of the Harvard Law Review, is it?

>>>Do you think she is ready to be Commander in Chief?

Sheesh.

McCain is havin' a larf!

:)

Anonymous said...

More anti-abortion bollox.

I'm sure Nadine Dorries will be pleased.

Why didn't he pick Condi Rice ??

norman said...

About Palin being a 'ferocious debater'. A woman with an NRA life-membership has got use her mouth to justify this weird obsession with guns. It is not my opinion, but that of an American mother who was complaining that she could not match her daughter's arguments after the daughter, started attending NRA meetings and her boyfriend disappeared and potential ones were too scared to talk to her! The gun+pro-life is an explosive mixture! I know one person who would vote for McCain-Palin ticket. He was my neighbour in Cincinnati in my university days there who kept 200 guns of all description, rubbished Darwin's theory ( I had to nod for everything he said as he was always carrying a vicious-looking rifle!)and was sure that the Watergate break-in was the work of the KGB! He is in his eighties now, would be thrilled by McCain's VP choice!

Anonymous said...

What a great team!!

A wise mature and man paired up with a wise and not so mature mother. Both are incredibly intelligent.

Obama just hit a brick wall.

chrome diplomat said...

What a dumb ass decision....

This is a woman who a few months ago admitted she didn't even know what the VP does (source: CNN)

Shes anti-choice- so Hilary will hopefully be out on the trail explaining that she is nothing like HRC herself.

She may have executive experience- but of a 7000 person city and then of one of the smallest states in the US and one that is nowhere near an accurate cross section of the US- which is simply not enough when you consider - and I say this with all due respect- if McCain were to serve 2 terms he would be very likely to die in office.

She has no real legal/political mind and no foreign policy experience. Say what you like about Obama- but he is a constitutional lawyer and served on foreign committees in the senate (albeit briefly).

McCain has undermined the most potent criticism he could have of Obama just the day after Obama gave a speech directly addressing those questions.

I think McCain will regret this come November.

Anonymous said...

As Obama has NO experience of anything, except being a rich and privileged young MAN how is he going to counter his grounded mixed gender opponents?

Ron Todd said...

This is a woman who a few months ago admitted she didn't even know what the VP does (source: CNN)

Fair enough does anybody know what the VP does?

It is like asking what does 'prince' Charles do except make money by using his inherited position and inherited land (Cornwall) to make money selling overpriced organic food that most of us could not afford , while complaining about scientists that are trying to find new ways of feeding a growing world population.

Like the VP he is waiting for somebody to die.

Would it be better to have a system where if potus dies the VP takes over only for as long as it takes to elect a new president?

Andy C said...

Strapworld -

1. Have you been to Alaska? She's married to an Eskimo, supports guns, the bible.
2. Her appointment is trying to win over the pro-Hillary Dems. Hillary Dems are first and foremost Dems and are not going to vote for a pro-NRA, pro-life candidate however many kids she raises.
3. She sounds like a care bear on helium. Again, Biden a proper political heavyweight, is going to REAM her.
4. The Hillary effect is massively over-exaggerated, in the large, voters are not going to go over to McCain, especially not after the job that both Bill and Hillary did this week.

I'm a conservative (both small and big C) who is tired of the b/s christian conservatism that's passes for the GOP these days.

America needs a damn change and that doesn't include any more military posturing or someone who doesn't give a damn what's going on in our economy.

africanmum said...

Just being fair to all the candidates, and knowing how Americans vote as I know loads of people who would be voting: Sarah Palin would be a big asset. You see her and think, If I were in the same church as her, we'd be great friends, or if she were my neighbour, she'd be great to have around. No one in the Dems ticket gives out that feeling. And she's brought in the ethnic factor - her husband's an Innuit. At the moment, Republicans appear to know what makes middle America tick, and the Dems seem to appeal to metropolitan types only and people who live in Europe.

Terry Hamblin said...

She ticks all the boxes for me. Were I an American I would certainly vote for this ticket. I'm particularly impressed by her rubbishing the polar bear issue. If she is also against the idea of anthropogenic global warming I will be doubly pleased.

Malcolm Redfellow said...

anonymous @ 7:39 PM:

A wise mature and man paired up with a wise and not so mature mother. Both are incredibly intelligent.

Well, we know McCain's IQ: it's 133. I totally reject such measurements, but apparently some people are impressed by them. It used, in my distant day (closer to McCain's than Palin's), to be a truism that university entrance required an IQ of 129-130. What is the IQ norm for entry to the University of Idaho on a beauty-contest scholarship?

And how does one measure "wisdom"? Did that other country-bumpkin lawyer from Illinois, Abe Lincoln, have a reputation for "wisdom" when he arrived in Washington in 1861?

Incidentally, the head-and-bare-shoulders pics of Miss Sarah Louise Heath may not be an image sellable to the true evangelicals. Let's hope, for her sake, they stop at the biceps and the hint of cleavage.

The other questions, from her known record in Alaska, are:
* Can she run with, rather than against the Republican ticket?
* Who, apart from husband Todd, is pulling her strings?

John_C said...

Iain,

This past June, way ahead of the curve, Beldar posted a long piece on Palin's history.

http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2008/06/alaskas-gov-sar.html

Ron Todd said...

Just heard her speak. In modern politics the most important skill is being able to make a good speach.

It is not fair but it is real and I am in no position to complain about the way other speak I am not that good at it myself.

When she speaks whatever the worth of her words her voice would have me changing channels very quickly.

I assume that she sounds just as grating to Americans.

Anonymous said...

She sounds better than Anne Widdecombe, so that's a bonus.

Martin said...

Hang on a minute. How can Obama be qualified to be President with no record of running anything, but she isn't qualified to be VP yet has been both a Mayor AND a state Governor?

One rule for women and another for men? Women have to be twice as qualified do they?

She won't attract hard core Clinton supporters, but something like 25% of women in the USA have still to make up their minds as to who to vote for. Women made up 54% of the vote last time around. If McCain can take a good slice of that vote it will do him good.

What a joke the BBC are as well. They claim "it's a desperate measure" and in one report actually read out a Democract "claim" as fact on BBC News 24 (the comment about being a Mayor of a town of only 9000 population)

Since when has McCain been desperate in the polls? It's been Obama who has been going backwards.

Oh and I think she's kinda sexy in that schoolteacher way.

And thank god she's not wearing the American burka (the Hillary pantsuit). Wearing a skirt never stopped Maggie Thatcher beating the shit out of the Labour party!!

Anonymous said...

So are the anti Sarah Palin people on here saying McCain would have done better choosing another middle to late aged white male in a suit?

From the comments made so far, it seems she's already rattled a few cages. And as for the outraged remarks about some of her policy positions, we're talking about American politics and the practicalities of getting elected in that country, and not the liberal status quo that generally holds sway in the UK.

Martin said...

There was a TV show in the USA called Commander in Chief. It starred Geena Davis. Basically, a woman VP becomes President after President dies.

Martin said...

McCain will EAT Obama alive when they get down to the one to one's.

Reading off an autocue is not a good qualification for President.

Anyone who saw Saddleback saw that Obama is an airhead when his answers are not pre prepared.

I note the BBC failed to mention Obama got trounced in tihs one to one.

norman said...

Like the case of Geraldine Ferraro's husband, if Palin's husband Todd has some skeletons rattling in his cupboard, she will take McCain down with her provided the ineffectual Team Obama takes advantage of the skeletons tumbling out and recognise them as skeletons! Otherwise, she could carry the McCain-Palin votes in states like Ohio and Texas, and that should be enough to push McCain into the White House.

Hillary's support to Obama is crucial. The Clintons simply cannot assume now that if Obama loses, it is Hillary's candidacy in 4 year's time. McCain then will be 76 likely not to stand for reelection, and VP Palin just 48 and with experience, and Hillary will find her a formidable candidate to take on.

Martin said...

"...Say what you like about Obama- but he is a constitutional lawyer and served on foreign committees in the senate (albeit briefly)..."

OK I will.

1. He has strong links to convicted killers/terrorists

2. He's never achieved anything of note.

3. Much of the legislation he "passed" in Illinois was actually the work of others. Obama only got involved when he started his run for the US Senate.

4. He has links to racist scum like the Reverand Wright and Farther Flager.

5. When he's not abl eto read off an autocue he can't give a straight answer to a straight question. The "It's above my pay grade" cop out at Saddleback sums him up

Martin said...

Norman: That's so wrong. If Obama wins, Hillary won't get a shot for 8 years and THEN it will probably be someone else who will get the chance.

Hillary will happily take a shot at Sarah Palin in 4 years time. But she will only get that if Obama loses.

kinglear said...

anon at 4:24 pm and others. Yes she really is a change. Obama is not any change really - he is talking about it but he actualkly is a Washington insider. McCain and Palin ARE change - ditching the insiders, working from commonsense and with a bi-partisan approach. Excellent stuff...

norman said...

Martin,

What is so wrong? Please read what I have posted:

I said, "The Clintons simply cannot assume now that if Obama loses, it is Hillary's candidacy in 4 year's time. McCain then will be 76 likely not to stand for reelection, and VP Palin just 48 and with experience, and Hillary will find her a formidable candidate to take on".

Malcolm Redfellow said...

Martin @ 8:49 PM:

What a joke the BBC are as well. They claim "it's a desperate measure" and in one report actually read out a Democract "claim" as fact on BBC News 24 (the comment about being a Mayor of a town of only 9000 population).[sic/i].

Sorry to see the Beeb grossly exaggerating the importance of Wasilla City (pop. 6,715). Endearingly, the town -- sorry, City -- website now features their ex-Mayor (all of two years' service) immediately above the next item of importance: "Baby & Me Lap-Sit Program at the Library".

And as for the "rattling cages" types, why not chose a woman as candidate for either of the top two jobs in the Western World? It's not that the Republicans didn't have a number of other eligible women Governors. For example:
Linda Lingle in Hawaii (but she's -- uggh -- Jewish , and divorced);
Jodi Rell in Connecticut (but that might raise questions of Republican corruption);
Olene Smith Walker in Utah (too old, and a Mormon);
Judy Martz from Montana (too outspoken, too liberal, but a fine sassy gal);
Jane Swift of Massachusetts (too exploitative, too bright, not a vote winner, not Mitt Romney);
Nancy Hollister, briefly Governor of Ohio (too vanilla home-maker; beaten by her opposition to same-sex marriage); and
Christine Whitman of New Jersey (too decent, too honest, the obvious woman for any inclusive Republican slate, too environmentally-minded).

And, yet ... McCain showed "leadership" by surrendering to a local, far-right, anti-Green, pro-Oil, pro-Life, write-in orchestrated campaign.

Shucks.

Anonymous said...

Martin - re: the Geena Davis show. It got cancelled after one season, people couldn't relate to it.

; )

Martin said...

Malcolm redfellow: Well at least McCain didn't shaft any of his female candidates, unlike Obama who really shafted Hillary.

Martin said...

Norman: I agree with you, that it's not clear Hillary would win. My point was if Obama wins in November it's over for her. 8 years is a long time to wait. If McCain wins she will at least get another shot in 2012 and she will make sure this time that no one gets in her way.

People need to remember that if Florida and Michingan delegates had counted from the start she'd have won. That won't happen again.

Anonymous said...

Mmmmmmmmm.

How shrill all the squawking from the Obamamaniacs is today. I suppose it's understandable seeing that McCain's stolen the show on the day which should have confirmed "the one's" ascendancy. Still best they don't underestimate Sarah Palin.

In the roughly three years since she quit as the state's chief regulator of the oil industry, Palin has crushed the Republican hierarchy (virtually all male) and nearly every other foe or critic. Political analysts in Alaska refer to the "body count" of Palin's rivals. "The landscape is littered with the bodies of those who crossed Sarah," says pollster Dave Dittman, who worked for her gubernatorial campaign. It includes Ruedrich, Renkes, Murkowski, gubernatorial contenders John Binkley and Andrew Halcro, the three big oil companies in Alaska, and a section of the Daily News called "Voice of the Times," which was highly critical of Palin and is now defunct.

Biden better be careful not to join the 'body count'.

Inexperienced or not it sounds like she knows how to handle herself. Not bad for a school mom from a hick town in the middle of an ice-pack.......

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/851orcjq.asp

Anonymous said...

I find the idea that her husband Todd is some kind of wealthy oil exec "pulling her strings" hilarious. I was talking earlier to a mate who works for BP, and he told me that Todd is a drilling operative who's been home on garden leave and not allowed near the office since the day she was elected.

Martin said...

Nice blog site about Sarah Palin Iain.

http://palinforvp.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

This is the best blog. You get to read the real views of the Tory party, rather than the spin from central office and Cameron. I imagine the Labour and Lib dems central offices read this blog avidly - they must be saving all the negative, nasty right wing rants posted and will be pointing them out to the public to prove that that you are still the "nasty party"

Thanks to all the contributors to this blog. You have made me very happy.

Anonymous said...

I think she is a great VP pick!!
I am a democrat and I'll vote For McCain/palin.
I did not like the way the liberal media and Obama have handeled Hillary...they were very disrespectful.

johnlocke said...

It's hilarious to see people here cussing Palin for her 'obsession' with guns, her anti-abortion views and for being a Christian. And talking about coming from a small town as though it's going to hinder her chances.

They haven't a clue, have they? Have they been to America?

Anonymous said...

malcolm redfellow.

"And, yet ... McCain showed "leadership" by surrendering to a local, far-right, anti-Green, pro-Oil, pro-Life, write-in orchestrated campaign."

Well, I'm sorry that McCain hasn't chosen an agenda that is to your taste, but it doesn't mean to say he hasn't chosen a winning agenda in terms of the American electorate.

Shucks.

Malcolm Redfellow said...

That trendy lefty scandal-sheet The Economist opines:

Although she is popular with conservatives, Ms Palin will not be able to cement the evangelical wing of the party to Mr McCain in the same way that the selection of Mr Pawlenty would have done through his strong ties to the National Association of Evangelicals.

But the risks of choosing such an unknown quantity are enormous. An important aspect in selecting a vice-president is to reassure the electorate that should anything happen to the man in the Oval Office there is a competent and trustworthy stand-in ready to take over. John McCain’s age (he is 72) is an underlying factor with voters. Although Ms Palin’s youthfulness, she is 44, is an eye-catching contrast to the top of the ticket, questions will be raised about her ability to run the country if Mr McCain should ever be incapacitated.

And the tenures of both Al Gore and Dick Cheney as vice-president have raised the profile of the office. Vice-presidents were once expected to be solid and reliable but mostly boring. Messrs Gore and Cheney took on policy portfolios, such as government reform or preparing for war with Iraq. Barack Obama’s pick of Joe Biden for the role now seems all the more wise.

By choosing the governor of Alaska as his running mate, Mr McCain also turns the spotlight on the state’s politics, which is currently entangled in corruption scandals. Ted Stevens, the longest-serving Republican senator ever, faces corruption charges in relation to building work on his home. Other state officials are under investigation in separate cases. And Alaskans are going through a period of introspection about politics and energy interests, on which the state has thrived.

Mr McCain lauded Ms Palin's “record of delivering on the change and reform” needed in Washington, DC, and clearly recognises her as a fellow maverick. She was elected as Alaska’s youngest ever governor in 2006, a bright spot in a dreadful year for the Republican Party, which lost control of Congress in the mid-term elections. She arrived in Juneau, the state capital, with a squeaky-clean agenda, vowing to reform the state’s politics and root out corruption. She built a reputation for taking on the state's big oil interests with their links to the Republican Party. However, Ms Palin has become embroiled in a minor scandal concerning the sacking of a state trooper, though she adamantly denies any wrongdoing. The state legislature is now investigating the whole affair, to Ms Palin’s embarrassment.


But what do they know?

And as for johnlocke @ 10.40 PM

1. Have they been to America? In my case, yes, repeatedly. From sea to shining sea.

2. talking about coming from a small town as though it's going to hinder her chances.
Well, it just might in most of the "swing" States.

60% of the US population now live in cities of 200,000+. 80% in towns of 50,000+. That might, just might be a significant proportion of the electorate.

Martin said...

The pathetic BBC just tried to smear her on Newsnight. Funny that the BBC have been quick to bring up the state trooper allegation, yet with Obama they don't mention Bill Ayrres, the Weathermen or his other links to terrorists.

The BBC doing what the BBC does best. Hiding the facts they don't want you to know.

Yak40 said...

ron todd

The job of VP has been said to be as appealing as a bucket of warm spit ! They break tied votes in the senate, attend second tier funerals of overseas functionaries and so on.

africanmum
Republicans appear to know what makes middle America tick, and the Dems seem to appeal to metropolitan types only and people who live in Europe.
About sums it up.

Anonymous said...

malcolm redfellow.

I'm sure McCain and his campaign team didn't have a clue about all the difficulties surrounding Palin before he chose her as his VP. He probably just stuck a pin on a list of candidates, didn't he?

Big city living doesn't exclude small town values. Look at Ohio.

chrome diplomat said...

Ron Todd: Fair point, but still, you would like to think that the VP will have some kind of agenda for what they want to see happen- i.e. Gore pushed green policies/ Cheney pushed...I'm not going to say coz I will anger some people!

My point was how can she make an effective VP when she has no idea what she may achieve there. Furthermore- how can she be ready for being president if shes not ready to be VP.

Martin:

My my you are an angry fellow- are you the soul British PUMA??

First of- there are no strong links to terrorist- some 527's have claimed there are- but these have all been ridiculed - see www.factcheck.org - they did a report on them

Second: He has achieved plenty of note- and has proven his ability to work across the aisle- politifact.com again tore apart the McCain claim that he had done nothing. Admittedly he does some time overstate his influence- but he's running for POTUS- hes not the only one- did you hear McCain on his relationship with the Georgian President?

Thirdly- I guess this ties in to second point you made- again, he did a lot of merit before running for senate- including the lobbyist rules in Illinois, to name but one thing.

Your fourth point: Rev Wright was an idiot not a racist- he sees the way US foreign policy has lead some to commit atrocities and blames the white ruling classes- fact is its any ruling classes, the US's just happens to be mainly white. Of course- fact is terrorism is never excused by circumstance or hardship- but then again he never said it was.

Finally- he doesn't just read off an auto-cue- the guys who challenged him on not raising black issues enough, or the woman who challenged him on his phone tapping vote were prime examples of this. He does stumble more when off book- but so does any politician. For all of them the reason is that they have to consider their answer and form a proper response. McCain is bad even with auto-cue- would hate to see him with out!

Oh- and by the way- Hillary was not robbed of nomination- she lost. She agreed not to count Florida and Michigan- and only argued against it when she was down. Also, she lost the popular vote even if you include Florida where Obama's name was on the ballot but neither of them campaigned. She only wins when you include Michigan where Obama wasn't even an option and most people actually stayed home rather than vote of her. She would have made a great president- shes an awesome woman and I like her a lot- but Obama will ultimately make a better one!

(Iain- sorry for long post!)

Anonymous said...

Palin is basically pro-gay-rights, even though she opposes same-sex marriage (like Obama). This conservative is very disappointed in McCain's pick.

Alice, 18 said...

The so-called 'Clintonistas' are, in my humble opinion, unlikely to vote for McCain just because his running mate is a woman- especially if she is anti-abortion, which may not sit too well with women who tend to vote democrat.
Moreover, once the initial shock has passed over the weeked, and people start to really think about it, some women may find the apparent implication that 'women will vote for women' to be patronising. Yet the most important thing, surely, is that, if elected, she would be one heartbeat away from the Presidency. This is an important fact when considering Senator McCain's age and previous ill-health. Is a 44-year-old with just two years' experience as a state governor (albeit a seemingly popular one) in a state with a comparatively small population really going to be ready for that job? Where is her foreign policy experience- Senator Biden is the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, which is hugely influential. This would seem to undercut McCain's central campaign strategy, which is to suggest that Senator Obama is inexperienced, especially in matters of foreign affairs.
Mrs. Palin may well play well to the GOP base, but is the undecideds and more hesitant Democrats that McCain will need. And, as Andy C states- Alaska will vote Republican anyway, so it is not even as though she is making a traditional Democratic state competitive. In many cases, I doubt that Mrs. Palin's level of name recognition will match that of Obama's.
Picking a woman has been a brave choice by Senator McCain, and is an historic moment in the GOP's history- as he himself pointed out last night's good-natured ad- these moments should be celebrated. It was also a good way of stealing back the news cycle from Senator Obama's excellent speech last night. However, once the weekend passes, it may be seen as a gimmick (not wishing to insult Governor Palin), and Veep is not a position that you want to play too much politics with.

Looking forward to the debates.

Alice, 18 said...

Ooops, sorry-
a) for the long post and
b) I meant to say that I doubted Mrs. Palin's level of name recognition would match Senator Biden's, not Senator Obama's!

trevorsden said...

At least if Sarah Palin is elected the White House will have an incumbent who knows the truth about polar bears.

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/alaska-govenor-sarah-palins-op-ed-on-polar-bears-and-climate-change-in-the-nyt/

rob's uncle said...

A Guardianista's view is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/michaeltomasky/2008/aug/30/uselections2008.johnmccain

chuck said...

She's attractive, young and a woman. Basically all the things McCain isn't. It's a shrewd move that may well catapult the crazy bastard into the white house.

andrew kirkham said...

One point which has not been mentioned is that she is in a mixed race marriage whose husband is part "native American " . What better to counter any accusations of racism from Democrats .

dizzy said...

Given that I posted this about my mate Brad at the Crossed Pond blog who called the order of the nominees finishing in December and called Palin and Badin too I will post a link to why Palin was the right choice for McCain by him which he posted in June.



http://thecrossedpond.com/?p=3500

jean shaw said...

Read her entry in Wikipedia and dismiss her at your peril .A very determined lady from way back in her college days. Has developed her political career remarkably well. Combined big family with big job, mother of handicapped child ,married to a champion sportsman , photogenic ( Vogue) , has done what she wants her way, kept her campaign promises.
Good ticket

archduke said...

"August 29, 2008 4:20 PM"

100 per cent bang on analyis, Your Grace.


game set and match to McCain. he's gonna win this one. big time.

Ron Todd said...

A lot of Clinton supporters will vote the way that they think will give their woman the best chance in 4 or eight years time.

If Obama wins he is likely to be the Democratic candidate for the next election in four years. Unless he is really bad at the job.

Her best chance is McCain winning then standing down (or dieing in office) after 4 years with Palin making little impression as VP. AND Obama running a poor campaign this year.

Even if not many of them vote for McCain there will be many that do not vote for Obama.

Rightly or wrongly I thin that many women will worry about what a Black man in power attitude towards women would be.

Anonymous said...

Iain - why dont you come out of the closet and declare your support for Mccain - you are a Tory Republican - just say it. You dont have to be ashamed - its not dirty. Just because Bush has been a disaster - just cos you supported Bush, does not mean you are cannot gfo opn supporting the same old failed policies - go on Ian - be HONEST - we are realluy tierd of Tory spin - say what you believe " I am a Tory and support John McCain and the policies of the Republican Party"

Chris said...

>Malcolm redfellow: Well at least McCain didn't shaft any of his female candidates, unlike Obama who really shafted Hillary.

Blimey, I knew Bill played around, but if he really shafted her, it's a story that should be getting a lot more attention!

Not related to above: it's nice to see nervous lefties channelling their anxieties about McCain-Palin (a brilliant choice) into the usual mix of abuse, lies and student union debating points.

Anonymous said...

Is it part of the constitution that all candidates must have photogenic children to prove that they are fertile? (poor Chealsy excepted)

Despite the efforts of the odious Kennedy clan it is not a hereditory position.

Even here some poor woman had to marry Brown and breed with him before he became pm

(hope they at loeast let her use the turkey baster method)

Martin said...

Ron Todd: Make no mistake. If Obama loses, the Clintons will crush his balls like a demented wife finding her husand in bed with a trollop.

If Obama loses, the blood will flow within the Democratic party. Hillary will go around looking for heads of those that turned against her.

Trust me, seeing the Dems lose would be worth it just to see that happen.

Malcolm Redfellow said...

Chris @ 10.33 AM:

I'm accustomed to having my views traduced and misrepresented, and rarely complain thereof. I must protest, though, at such an inelegant construction and gross vulgarity (Martin's @ 9.46 PM, I believe) being foisted on me.

Anthony said...

Martin said...



Anyone who saw Saddleback saw that Obama is an airhead when his answers are not pre prepared.

I note the BBC failed to mention Obama got trounced in tihs one to one.

Odd isn't it that the Beeboids fail to report things that don't agree with their views? Expect to see more of the same.

strapworld said...

andy c said . 8.07pm last evening!

In reply to my knockback of your ridiculous racist post.

Your suggest that if I had visited Alaska I may have changed my opinion! A ridiculous notion.

Sir, your out-pourings appear to be both juvenile and rather stupid.

I am very well travelled and know the USA far more than you may imagine. Yes, I have been to Alaska and I admire Eskimo's (Why that came into it I just do not comprehend, you obviously do not believe that Eskimo's belong to the human race- which makes you a racist!).

You say you are a conservative. I very much doubt it. You are a little person with a small mind who should remember the old adage, "children should be seen and not heard".

I would have far more respect for you if you had just come out and said you could not support her! But to come out with statements they used to say about this country, until Baroness Thatcher proved them wrong,is just plain stupid. How on God's earth can you speak for America?

Grow up.

Chris said...

Malcolm @ 1135: my apologies. Let's give debit where it's due, by all means.

norman said...

"If Obama loses, the blood will flow within the Democratic party. Hillary will go around looking for heads of those that turned against her"

Very unlikely that Democrats then will go for Hillary
a divisive person who carries an appendage called Bill Clinton. I have no doubt some one other than Hillary
will become the Democrat's candidate at the end.

Drew Belobaba said...

As someone who grew up in a west coast fishing/logging family in small town British Columbia (Palin's husband was or is a commercial fisherman)Sarah Palin and her family are people I and most North Americans can identify with. They're ordinary folk. She didn't grow up in exotic tropical locales, she probably knows how many homes she owns, and she hasn't been working in Washington for over a quarter of a century.

And having watched her speech, I don't find her voice grating - maybe to English ears, but she sounds pretty normal to anyone who lives on the other side of the pond.

I think that in very short order she'll prove more popular than either Barack Obama or John McCain.

Chris Paul said...

It's very like having Norman Tebbit plus Nadine Dorries as the Tory ticket. But with someone with even less experience and virtues than Nads. Is that going to happen? I don't think so. Would it be popular? I don't think so.

But USA is USA. Who knows.

norman said...

"The job of VP has been said to be as appealing as a bucket of warm spit ! They break tied votes in the senate, attend second tier funerals of overseas functionaries and so on".

What the rest of the free world will be worried is what happens after the VP attends the President's funeral having sworn quickly in as the President. It appears that McCain seems to be saying 'You ain't seen nothin' yet'!

David Lindsay said...

She backed Buchanan in 1996 and 2000. Mind you, Taki's Magazine is not too impressed: "People seem to be missing the fact that this is a classic, Rovian appease-the-base choice."

Well, I sincerely hope that either party is America still has a base which, like Buchanan, sees the neocons for what they are (old Trots, simply going about it by different means), and says so.

A base which, like Buchanan, is right about family values (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about strictly limited and strictly legal immigration (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about "free" trade (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about constitutional checks and balances (strongly shared by Obama's black base), right about real national security (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about energy independence (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about real environmental responsibility, right about Second Amendment rights and responsibilities (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about Civil Rights (not "affirmative action", and in those terms (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton, as well as by a growing number of blacks who see the Hispanics getting AA these days), right about America as an English-speaking country (very, very strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about foreign policy realism, and at least open to the Biblico-Patristic critique of Americanism itself.

But not a base which, like Buchanan, is wrong about the protection of workers and consumers (although he is not terribly badly wrong on that one these days), wrong about fair tax (likewise), wrong about universal health care, wrong about Social Security, and wrong about Civil Rights (in the sense that he still makes occasional rhetorical flourishes towards the remaining George Wallace Tendency, not they are ever going to get anywhere now).

Still, you can't be a "fiscal conservative" in Alaska. It's Alaska. Where Palin has also been a good friend of the indigenous peoples.

I'm still backing Obama, but Palin, though certainly not McCain, is looking better and better, not least for the Democratic Party in the long run: it needs to become once again the party that reaches out to, and represents, those who will be and are being attracted to Palin.

Terry Hamblin said...

Srapworld
'Eskimos' is a simple plural and has no need of the apostrophe.

Martin said...

I see that since The Messiah in the form of Obama has delived his speech (need we bother with an election?) the BBC has simply stopped all US election output.

Last weekend it was all to wall gush from Justin Webb and Matt Frei. This weekend, some floods in India (those floods have been there since las tweek BBC) and some house fire are suddenly boosted up the agenda.

I haven't seen a single live report from the Republican campaign today. Did I miss it?

Martin said...

Norman: Did you not see the reception Hillary & Bill got at the Democratic convention?

If you think that when Obama loses Hillary and Bill won't seek revenge, you don't understand the Clintons.

John Trenchard said...

"right about America as an English-speaking country (strongly shared by Obama's black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton),"

sorry to point this out - but you are either deluded or lying.

http://www.usenglish.org/view/479


quote:

At a town hall meeting in Georgia, presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama told an audience that, “you need to make sure that your child can speak Spanish.” Speaking in Powder Springs, Ga., the Illinois Senator said that the nation’s chief priority should not be for immigrants to learn English, but for American children to learn Spanish.

Malcolm Redfellow said...

john trenchard @ 9:14 PM:

There speaks someone who never coped with his home-help, or has tried to have his yard (sorry: "lawn") mown.

There are very few of the 48 states where some attempt at Spanish isn't a pragmatic requirement. It may differ in distant Alaska; but that's another reason why Mrs Palin may not be up to speed, while Obama is.

Live with it.

David Lindsay said...

John Trenchard, I said that Obama's black base held this view, not that he (not an African-American in the ordinary sense of the term) did. His liberal moral views similarly illustrate the dislocation between him and black America generally.

But they are still going to vote for him in huge numbers. And when he wins, he'll owe them, as they will have no hesitation in reminding him.

No one, of course, ever had a more Hispanic hinterland than Jorge Bush, who actively cultivated its illegal expansion by those whom McCain plans to let off the hook entirely.

I have never understood the assumption that the Latinos would vote for the party of the established black and white working classes. There is every reason to expect them to do no such thing. As the Republicans, whose economic system in any case depends on unrestricted migration, have clearly noticed.

Andy C said...

Strappers -

I'm not a racist. This was an open thread. I posted very quickly after MSNBC broke the news that she was Governor.

Admittedly, not the cleverest use of making a point - that her husband is a native yu'pik but I thought it was an interesting side to her all the same.

But get this right, I'm not a racist. I was in Alaska less than a month ago, fishing with Yu'piks. I made the point about guns and bibles because that's how it is up there. She would not have even got on the ticket if she was anti-NRA.

My major issue with SP is her lack of experience. And the sneaking suspicion that John McCain was basically charmed by her because she's personable and pretty.

But get this right, I'm not a racist. And jousting about in this blog is fine and fun but don't call me a racist, you don't know what you're talking about.